Yorick really getting nerfed before Riven

Moody P·Feb 27, 2019·53 votes·14,056 views

I haven't lost a single game to Yorick in the last 2 patches where he became "OP" (despite an unimpressive performance in the pro play games he's picked in, indicating this is largely a soloQ ordeal). His performance drops steadily the higher rank you sort for and I would expect it to continue to decline. His pick % also decreases and so does his ban rate.

I keep Riven on my permaban because she's much harder to deal with and is objectively stronger - boasting a higher win AND play rate - and yet she's being completely ignored. Riven has also been strong for much longer and is touted as a "very hard to play" champion which makes these numbers even less acceptable. Her win rate only gets higher the higher you sort for. Her pick rate does not change and her ban rate increases.

Better nerf Yorick.

75 Comments

TobykachuFeb 27, 201917 votes

My only guess is that Riven has a skin on the way.

MordepoolFeb 27, 201915 votes

This is a legit theory

Sir SaltarinFeb 27, 201914 votes

Riven always has a skin on the way tbh

MordepoolFeb 27, 20192 votes

She doesnt Need one

A Chaotic MindFeb 27, 201916 votes

he has a 54% winrate and 26% ban rate ffs. if he had a dash the board would bitch about him 24/7

Critmaster GarenFeb 27, 201932 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-27T13:08:19.975+0000)

he has a 54% winrate and 26% ban rate ffs. if he had a dash the board would bitch about him 24/7

just below 53% win rate and 8% pick rate. while that is high, conquerors ad bonus is literally being cut in half.

maybe wait what that does to him first instead of double dipping on nerfs on him?

meanwhile you have Vayne at 53% to 54% winrate and 25% pick rate, 30% ban rate the past few patches for a "high skill champion". where are her nerfs? the champion should have been fucking dumpstered a month ago, but they need to cash in on her prestige skin first.

A Chaotic MindFeb 27, 20193 votes

except his winrate is the same as before the conqueror's change. he gets picked in proplay and they play on a pre new-conq patch. also the argument why x is not getting nerfed when y is does not hold. both should be nerfed and tbh im happy they're nerfing yorick first so i can stop permabanning him

Iota ThetaFeb 27, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T13:28:33.748+0000)

except his winrate is the same as before the conqueror's change. he gets picked in proplay and they play on a pre new-conq patch. also the argument why x is not getting nerfed when y is does not hold. both should be nerfed and tbh im happy they're nerfing yorick first so i can stop permabanning him

Regardless, they should never double nerf like that, because we don’t know what his strength will actually do with the coming Conquerer nerfs, which reduce the Adaptive Force acquired.

It’s kind of like the old Sejuani/Cinderhulk nerfs. Nerf one because of an issue with the other, then nerf the second, and the champ is in a terrible state. Same possibility here, just possibly within the same patch, or within a patch or two.

A Chaotic MindFeb 27, 20192 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/counter/Yorick/Top/ except yorick perform the worst vs conqueror users like jax, riven, irelia.

Iota ThetaFeb 27, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T20:49:43.889+0000)

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/counter/Yorick/Top/ except yorick perform the worst vs conqueror users like jax, riven, irelia.

I’m..not sure what that has to do with what was said. Yorick is seen as apparently seen as strong. He uses Conquerer as a main rune. Conquerer is getting nerfed. Before nerfing Yorick, see how he fares after Conquerer is nerfed.

A Chaotic MindFeb 27, 20192 votes

maybe because you dont understand how league works? he perform worst vs conqueror users, conqueror is being nerfed, all his counters are also being indirectly nerfed like him so he won't be "destroyed" (unless they directly nerfs him too hard) since his competition got weaker as well

Iota ThetaFeb 27, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=0003000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-27T21:36:15.137+0000)

maybe because you dont understand how league works? he perform worst vs conqueror users, conqueror is being nerfed, all his counters are also being indirectly nerfed like him so he won't be "destroyed" (unless they directly nerfs him too hard) since his competition got weaker as well

No, I understand. I understand that by them hitting Conquerer it’ll hit jax and them as well. But consider it takes them down about the same. He’ll still struggle against his “counters”. He’ll still lose against them, but nerf him and conquerer, you run the risk of nerfing him too hard. His R changes did make a big difference, but we’re also looking at post Conquerer rework.

Another aspect to see here is those in higher elo also know how to fight him, namely by dropping the Maiden first. That’s where a lot of his strength is at the moment.

Regardless, only really change one thing at a time. That’s how science does it. Change too many things, and it throws everything off.

A Chaotic MindFeb 27, 20192 votes

at post Conquerer rework.

wrong. http://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/112/season-S9/split-Spring/tournament-ALL/patch-9.3./role-ALL/league-ALL/ pros plays on the old patch and yorick is still picked. why? because he's strong since he got overbuffed in 9.2

Another aspect to see here is those in higher elo also know how to fight him, namely by dropping the Maiden first.

i guess pros dont know how to fight him since he's a priority pick

That’s how science does it. Change too many things, and it throws everything off.

what does this even mean

Iota ThetaFeb 27, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=000300000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T23:18:37.630+0000)

wrong. http://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/112/season-S9/split-Spring/tournament-ALL/patch-9.3./role-ALL/league-ALL/ pros plays on the old patch and yorick is still picked. why? because he's strong since he got overbuffed in 9.2

You’re talking about pros. The rest of us are talking about live because, that’s what Moody P started their post with, and Critmaster Garen followed up with, talking about live stats. Not proplay, but the rest.

Currently, Diamond+ he’s at only 54% winrate, 10% pick rate. High, but not as bad as it could be. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yorick/

This is also disregarding that pro play is the elite, but they’re also an incredibly small sample size. How often have Azir, Kalista, and Ryze been gutted because of pro? Not to say there’s no value in pro stats, but they don’t always paint the best picture as far as solo queue goes.

i guess pros dont know how to fight him since he's a priority pick

You say that. Yet he still carries a 57% winrate in pro. They know how to best beat him, but he also isn’t always first pick. Notice most of his matches are against Urgot, a champ that can’t escape his wall, and even then he’s still at 57% against him after 14 games. One of his recent matches was even against a Karma.

You also have to note the number of games played.

Korea has the most at 9 matches, and he’s at 44% winrate. Won 4 matches.

EUW: 6 matches, 50% WR, so won only 3 PT and VN: 3 matches: 66.6% WR, won 2 matches JP and CIS: 3 matches, won all 3. NA: 3 matches, 33.3% WR, so won only one. TW and BR: 2 matches, both only won 1. ES: He won both matches LAT: won the one match he played IT, TR, FR: he lost his one match in each.

No, proplay he’s not that bad and is getting shut down, whether used by poorer teams, or the opponent knowing exactly how to beat him (see Yorick vs Jax in the one recent NA match).

what does this even mean

This is the scientific method that we learn about in science classes. You take something you want to observe, and change one variable, and then observe. If you change more than one thing at one, you don’t know what caused any chanes you observed.

The same holds true here. You really adjust one thing at a time. If you adjust too many things, things can shift horribly. Like Aatrox losing his dash charges and his healing on minions. This is why people say to nerf Riven or Spear of Shojin. It’s why getting the Sejuani treatment is a thing, too many things changed in a short span caused horrible gutting in season 5. Or in a reverse case, Ornn in season 7 getting overbuffed. It’s why you don’t nerf a champ and buff their counters at the same tiem.

This is a proven way to observe things and make appropriate adjustments. In this instance, don’t nerf Yorick and Conquerer at the same time. Nerf Conquerer, then see where Yorick stands, then tap again if necessary.

In the meantime, since he’s on yor permaban list, might I recommend a champ that can easily avoid his E, take out his ghouls, or simply kill the Maiden as soon as you can. Without her, he loses a lot of strength.

A Chaotic MindFeb 28, 20192 votes

54% winrate is literaly the same as riven, champion that the board is having a stroke about, but yorick is also valued in pro play. this happened before conqueror was changed. actually changing conqueror didnt impacted his w/r at all. almost like yorick is too strong. scientific method and all im also done arguing with you, dont @ me again

Iota ThetaFeb 28, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=00030000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-28T00:05:46.084+0000)

54% winrate is literaly the same as riven, champion that the board is having a stroke about, but yorick is also valued in pro play. this happened before conqueror was changed. actually changing conqueror didnt impacted his w/r at all. almost like yorick is too strong. scientific method and all im also done arguing with you, dont @ me again

Riven also tends to have a higher playrate, has been complained about much longer than Yorick, and has been a much longer and more obnoxious presence in higher elos. Yorick only just hit the spotlight.

And again, people aren’t debating proplay when they talk about Riven and Yorick, only you brought that up. Proplay values different things than solo queue. It’s why tanks and champs like Ryze are obnoxiously strong in pro while poor in solo.

But if you’re done, that’s fine with me. Just throw out the most reliable way to determine changes and not put a hammer to a champ’s knees.

JamareeFeb 27, 201913 votes

Doesn’t Yorick have a higher win rate then Riven, in fact checking.

Edit: Odd, so after checking, Yorick has a higher win rate globally at Plat and Below with Riven having a higher win rate at Diamond and above, weird.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yorick/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/

Moody PFeb 27, 20196 votes

Why didn't you check before posting?

JamareeFeb 27, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T12:14:41.385+0000)

Why didn't you check before posting?

Was on my phone, now at a computer.

General Esdeath Feb 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T12:14:41.385+0000)

Why didn't you check before posting?

Why didn't you? Makes this pose seem kind of redundant now. Especially since Yorick got a new change to his ult that means he can actually be tactical with it and not a split push bot.

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 27, 201910 votes

Completely ignoring the conquerer nerf that's going to take out a lot of her power, are we?

Critmaster GarenFeb 27, 201913 votes

{quoted}

Completely ignoring the conquerer nerf that's going to take out a lot of her power, are we?

and yoricks aswell? its his most used keystone currently, no?

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 27, 20192 votes

Doesn't Yorick still use Grasp?

JamareeFeb 27, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't Yorick still use Grasp?

He does and can, but his most used is Conqueror.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yorick/

wings are brokenFeb 27, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-02-27T12:43:00.791+0000)

and yoricks aswell? its his most used keystone currently, no?

Yorick is oppressive though with his maiden that can solo push lol. It's like having a 6th person on the team

SuperTopLFBottomFeb 27, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Completely ignoring the conquerer nerf that's going to take out a lot of her power, are we?

Ahahahaha just as i predicted.

Nerf the ever living fuck out of every toplaner so that riven still stays top tier. Great work riot videogames.

Fire live design and save this game.

TotalJerkFeb 28, 20192 votes

Conqueror in its current state is legit one of the most broken fucking things riot has ever released. It's not just broken on top laners, it's broken on literally everyone that can use it even decently. Shit is broken on fucking AZIR, even.

kingDeDeDariusFeb 27, 20197 votes

I actually agree, this is bs and riven should be hotfixed or spear of shojin removed (or rather, essence flare is a dirty, underhanded, AIDs passive that needs to be entirely removed from this game)

wings are brokenFeb 27, 20193 votes

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Iota ThetaFeb 27, 20199 votes

[{quoted}](name=wings are broken,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-02-27T19:53:44.500+0000)

--Removed--

Way to just disregard everything he said. Shojin’s passive was an issue on Essence Reaver, it’s still an issue now. Note, he says either hit Riven or Shojin.

But sure, just go on ahead and just disregard him because of his main champ. That’s always the best way to be right.

wings are brokenMar 1, 20191 votes

[deleted]

Iota ThetaMar 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=wings are broken,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=0008000000010001,timestamp=2019-03-01T01:28:43.596+0000)

--Removed--

I rarely see kingDeDeDarius disregard based on champ. They stated exactly as you said, fix Spear or fix Riven. There was no reason to comment on his main in that regard, and it’s an opinion held by many more than just Darius players. If they have disregarded, it’s possibly context is an important factor there. Browsed through comments, didn’t see anything like that, at least not blatant.

I merely said it because it’s common on the boards to just throw out anything someone says regardless of validity based on rank or main. I bring it up with you because you may be amused, but the way it was done was not only merely focused on the person and not what tey said, the tone in how it reads is incredibly condescending.

I mean, you could try to pull rank on me. I’ll just point out I barely play ranked because of real life (work, family time), time priorities, and other games. But I follow enough between the boards, patch notes, and the pro scene when I’m not playing that I get a decent enough idea.

Wild GeeseFeb 27, 20195 votes

or they could...

..... delete .... conqueror ....

5StackUltOneShotFeb 27, 20194 votes

Riven will forever be my perma ban. Gut that shit already I literally have muscle memory during banning phase

wings are brokenFeb 27, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Riven will forever be my perma ban. Gut that shit already I literally have muscle memory during banning phase

Another darius main, could this thread be just accounts from one darius main?

Scottsc20Feb 28, 20192 votes

What exactly does him being a Darius main have to do with this comment at all?

5StackUltOneShotFeb 28, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=wings are broken,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-02-27T19:55:54.261+0000)

Another darius main, could this thread be just accounts from one darius main?

Salty riven main with the iq of a table dont speak to me before you acknowledge your champion is a beyond broken artificial lp enhancer

wings are brokenMar 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Salty riven main with the iq of a table dont speak to me before you acknowledge your champion is a beyond broken artificial lp enhancer

Hm, interesting enough you played riven 4 times and only won 1 game this season LMAO You also are currently playing the strongest meta champions this season, but you complain about riven. I wonder why? You complain about a champ that you cant even play LMAO.... You main darius and you're talking about IQ XDD He is literally the easiest top laner to play, all you do is q flash aa w aa e aa r LOL

5StackUltOneShotMar 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=wings are broken,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=0009000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-01T01:36:32.521+0000)

Hm, interesting enough you played riven 4 times and only won 1 game this season LMAO You also are currently playing the strongest meta champions this season, but you complain about riven. I wonder why? You complain about a champ that you cant even play LMAO.... You main darius and you're talking about IQ XDD He is literally the easiest top laner to play, all you do is q flash aa w aa e aa r LOL

Imagine thinking Darius is op in High Diamond lmao.

4 Dashes, 2 AOE CC abilities, a 100% scaling on 2 abilities one of which is a shield, wall jumps, Improved AA range, AOE long range % missing hp execute, 2 Auto Attack modifiers, extra range on all of your abilities, animation cancelling that should not exist leading to 3 abilities in one second, low cooldowns, incredible synergy with most AD items in the game right now.

Yes, this is one champion, not three.

And if you think in Diamond I can q Flash into an enemy team then your drunk or stupid. Being a Riven main I think we all know which one it is <3 Keep spamming the post defending your broken champion lmao

Anchorit WracajFeb 27, 20194 votes

Lets take a look at Yorick in Diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/yorick/diamond 7.9% Popularity,51% win rate,19.5%Ban rate Now lets take a look at Riven in Diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/riven/diamond 16.4 POPULARITY,52.6% Win rate,23.2% ban rate. She has More pick rate,more win rate,more ban rate. YET SHE IS UNTOUCHED AND YORICK GETTING NERFED? Riot company hired players that are maining Riven.So they're keeping their favorite champion that they play untouched. fking game

Sleep On StreamFeb 28, 20193 votes

riven isnt broken its the new conqueror thats it

riot nerfing conquer so then see what happens to rivens winrate it will drop mark my words

GlaricionFeb 28, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleep On Stream,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Ys1bPL,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-02-28T03:52:14.847+0000)

riven isnt broken its the new conqueror thats it

riot nerfing conquer so then see what happens to rivens winrate it will drop mark my words

Doesn't have to sacrifice anything in her build (CDR, durability, damage), abuses animation canceling, high base values, several dashes, resourceless etc...

Her being so in vogue this patch is due to conqueror synergizing too well w/ her. Riven herself... If Azir had the same leeway as Riven he'd still rush nashor's first and would be free to nest his soldiers under/kamikaze inside of turrets as much as he pleased.

Scottsc20Feb 27, 20192 votes

They are both broken as hell and need to be gutted.

6KEMBE4ORBAFeb 28, 20192 votes

Yeah, Riven has been sleeper op for a long time and they overbuffed Yorick to a ridiculous state.

Way overdue for huge nerfs, for both of them.

ModCaptainMårvelousFeb 27, 20192 votes

Yorick hurts low ELO players. Riven hurts high ELO players.

Riot balances more around low ELO than high ELO. That's basically it.

OrangeMarineFeb 27, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Yorick hurts low ELO players. Riven hurts high ELO players.

Riot balances more around low ELO than high ELO. That's basically it.

wait what. This goes againt everything we have learned. There have been countless posts about how Riot always is quick to nerf the pro-meta champs and that they balance around high ELO, bc those are the players who play most "the way the game should be played".

e.g. not nerfing Yi and Volibear because they are super easy to pick/play around as long as your team isnt stubborn and picks a full squishy team without CC for example. (Yi might be a bad exmaple, he's kind of OP at the moment, but kat as another example).

People are always complaining how , "wowww riot balances around the 1% and not the 70% that make up the population".

pretty common knowledge now that they balance around high ELO; which is why it's fucked that riven is untouched when she is very present in high ELO (always riven mains populate challenger), and she terroizes low ELO as well.

it's quite obvious bc of her popularity and value to sell product

JohnnyNeverSinsFeb 28, 20192 votes

But riven is a high skill champion man,Yorick only Q's and riven-oh wait... Fuck both of them,

At least Yorick you can catch and he doesn't build deaths dance blood thirster and fucking hydra and never dies. He builds fucking tank items,he doesn't have the ability to literally one shot you (obviously I'm not talking about troll builds) and your whole team.

On the other hand? Heh,riven can one shot everything in the enemy team 3/4 of her abilities are AOE that scale with AD and with 4 dashes every 2-3 seconds try catching up to her or running away from her.

I understand that she is somewhat "difficult" but fuck off,she is way over tuned.

Lord Scorch 62Mar 1, 20192 votes

on the topic of "not nerfing rivin bc she is hard to play": Azir riot. what happened to azir riot... you dont like talking about what you did to your last "high skill cap" champ huh riot?