Riot, let's be real with Vayne

datfatguy··8 votes·855 views

You can nerf her damage. Increase her cooldowns and mana costs. But you won't turn her into a useless piece of trash.

Why? Because of her W and R. These two abilities are literally the only things that are keeping Vayne from becoming Nunu 8.1 level trash. People stop playing her after the nerfs, thinking that she isn't very strong anymore, but she still is. Her W is genuinely impossible to counter except for shields, which not everyone has, and which don't last forever. Seriously? True damage? Her ult isn't really as bad as her W, except that stupid invisibility she gets for a short period of time, which happens often because of her low Q cooldown.

Vayne is basically a more overpowered version of Quinn. She can do anything. She is a ranged assassin. A ranged assassin with true damage and invisibility.

Now do you know why she is constantly a problem?

Nerf her damage or whatever, but I can still easily see a Vayne hard carry a game and start three-shotting everyone after a few items.

She makes tanks useless.

She does an assassin's job better than them.

She can 1v1 anyone.

I don't know why an ADC champion would be given true damage and this insane amount of mobility, but it's happened. Her Q and E are fine. I forgot that her passive even existed.

Let's take a look at other ADC's.

Draven can dish out insane amounts of damage, but is it true damage? No. Is he going invisible every few seconds? No. Kalista is still Kalista. Twitch seems to be the only other ADC than can match up with Vayne, but he requires tons of peel to do it. Yes, Kog'Maw can just stand there and start right-clicking. Oh! But what's this? Vayne has activated her ult and gone invisible and deleted the Kog'Maw into absolutely nothing?

Vayne scales better than most champions in the game, and the fact that she is a ranged champion makes this even worse. Sure, Yasuo can go insane late game as well, but he has to actually get onto his target.

Nerfing Vayne's damage or whatever actually won't do anything. She plays like Quinn.

If you want to keep Vayne's kit, at least lure her somewhere else, like how Quinn isn't really played ADC.

This isn't a rant, I'm trying to let you know Riot, why she has never become utterly useless.

TL;DR True damage, invisibility, max health% damage, insane mobility, these are the reasons why Vayne has never completely become useless. People just assume that she is after she gets nerfed, but she is not.

Sorry for making this so long btw.

EDIT: Also, no, I'm not saying that Vayne should become pure trash, I'm just trying to prove a point.

16 Comments

General Esdeath 3 votes

All they have to do is change her W to CURRENT HP as opposed to max and BOOM she's still a tank shredder without melting your adc

Thefrostyviking2 votes

That and maybe the Caitlyn treatment for base stats, in other words, an actually lower base but a higher scaling-

So that even if she get's items she´ll be weaker due to a lack of levels, which would effectively stop her from uncontrollably snowballing any meta whenever she is even decent or more.

Ayzev1 votes

She's still gonna melt the ADC. 3 crits with a Shiv proc will burst them down regardless of if she has any points in her W or not.

General Esdeath 1 votes

That's a marksman item problem, not a Vayne problem

Ayzev1 votes

I didn't say anything about a problem. My point is that Vayne's W is almost irrelevant to squishies.

General Esdeath 1 votes

I don't think so, it's pretty good vs all champs because it guarantees a % done, now think about a certain rune that lets you deal bonus damage to champs below a % threshold.

Blåbæret2 votes

Quinn and Vayne are literally nothing alike. Other than that, I agree.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Well, they are both duelists.

Lios Ashenblade1 votes

I was playing a match the other day against vayne discussing how we should build and I was like "Well, they are mostly ap only ad is vayne, and building against her is extremely expensive and pointless"

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Most of her damage is still AD and crit. Armor, tabis, Randuin’s.

Slow her AS through things like Frozen Heart.

Rexxiee1 votes

Nerf a 49% wr champ then?

Shes not a problem anymore, stop being bronze.

Ahri Baka1 votes

It's not like she is a 49% for a reason most of times , when she dies , Vayne meains will be like " fk riot nerfed vayne " then getting tilted , they nerfed her ult damage which isn't even a problem , she doesn't need her ult to kill you , it depends on playerbase Swain was on 47-48 win rate and now he has 54% win rate , why ? because many people started playing him saying good bye for the old Swain who will be gone forever and playing him cheerly , he didn't get any buff yet his win rate jumped by 6-7%

Ahri Baka1 votes

I agree , except the Quinn part ,nerfing her damage isn't the problem , the items itself brings damage out of no where item 3153 this is one of the reasons why no matter how much you nerf her damage , nothing will change it's her kit , everything about her is just too strong , her Q will make her perma kite and dodge mages skillshots her w brings true damage for no reason , her E is too strong for self peeling and for running , her Ult brings stealth for no reason she needs a rework , but if they do , she won't be Vayne anymore , that's why nothing is being done against her

Dead flag blues1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=01tRxh5H,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-28T17:30:29.417+0000)

I agree , except the Quinn part ,nerfing her damage isn't the problem , the items itself brings damage out of no where item 3153 this is one of the reasons why no matter how much you nerf her damage , nothing will change it's her kit , everything about her is just too strong , her Q will make her perma kite and dodge mages skillshots her w brings true damage for no reason , her E is too strong for self peeling and for running , her Ult brings stealth for no reason she needs a rework , but if they do , she won't be Vayne anymore , that's why nothing is being done against her

It's not like they never deleted a champion before and replaced it with another who has the same name... Galio

SuperCommander1 votes

But that nerf was pretty big wasn't it? 30AD is 10% of her total damage or similar? That means the entire enemy team gets a free pair of Tabis compared to prepatch. Big difference!

Longtowel1 votes

Vayne has very high damage potential, but compared to say Kogmaw, she lacks the high range and consistent AoE damage that Kog can dish out with his Runaan's + Rageblade build.

Vayne doesn't need as much peel since she has a short invis and Q to dodge skillshots, as well as E for condemn, but in many team comps, she very much still needs it since she is still squishy as hell.

As an ADC, her disadvantages are shorter range, poor wave clear, and the ability to deal AoE damage. We look at other ADCs, that are currently considered less powerful. Sivir, for example, has lower damage and mobility overall, but has insane wave clear from a very early stage of the game, and her lategame teamfight richochets deal very high damage, and she also damage the squishy backlines without really hitting them. She also has a teamwide utility ult and a spellshield that is often more useful, since it can also block point and click stuns and other CCs.

Jinx has high range and AoE crits with her rockets, better wave clear. Caitlyn and Tristana are similar with their high range autos.

Cait has the ability to zone teamfights with her traps and executes with her ult, while Tristana gets a big burst from her E and ult, as well as a rocket jump reset.

So each ADC has their own way of being relevant, its just that Vayne's strengths are easier to feel since they feel overbearing. She can delete things so quickly that you feel like she is broken. However, the way to deal with Vayne, in my opinion, is to treat her as both an assassin and an ADC, so you need to focus her but also peel her away from your own squishies and carries.

I haven't had many games where Vayne just comes out of nowhere and straight up murders my backline, that's more Twitch. Most of the time, Vayne would just tear through the frontlines with her W, and then just murder the rest of my team with no resistance since their support peel for her and we couldn't lock her down.

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