I just feel like Zed doesn't take a lot of skill to play anymore

datfatguy·Sep 15, 2019·75 votes·17,112 views

Zed used to be one of the most skill-demanding champions in the game, because of the way you had to utilise his W and R. Now, since Electrocute was introduced, and all these other bullshit runes that give extra damage, it now feels like any clown can pick up this champion and do well with him, because missing your Q's doesn't matter anymore. Just auto-attack your enemies a few times and use your E and watch electrocute melt half of their HP. If you mess up your Ult, who the hell cares? Sudden Impact and Electrocute and Duskblade will make sure your enemy dies, even if you haven't got a clue what you're doing and using R whenever the hell you feel like it.

83 Comments

SEKAISep 15, 201952 votes

~~She never took skill outside of getting your head around her Q.~~

And her issues of being able to just outright kill people with AA and her W's passive component has been present ever since she was launched; in fact, it was probably a lot worse than it is now, though still incredibly bad.

~~Her W's active component will forever be bullshit.~~

~~Her E was the most loaded single spell in the entire game at launch including ultimates, and after all these rounds of nerfs it's still very strong and feels terrible for anyone playing against Zoe.~~

If anything, Zoe's Q is by comparison the most balanced part of her kit, because it doesn't actually feel like bullshit, when everything else is completely broken; but then again, she has her R that makes her Q bullshit because of course it does, and it has the excuse that since it "only" makes her Q bullshit and thus it should have no cooldown because again, of course it does.

~~Zoe is a mistake.~~

EDIT: That moment when you hate Zoe so much and you read "Zed" as "Zoe".

datfatguySep 15, 201922 votes

My dude it says Zed not Zoe

SEKAISep 15, 201927 votes

{quoted}

My dude it says Zed not Zoe

Oops...

My bad.

My Zoe hate got the better of me there.

overpoweredscrubSep 15, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Oops...

My bad.

My Zoe hate got the better of me there.

lol i know the feels... I feel the same when when it comes to pyke. Ugh delete fucking pyke, lol but you know they wont

SEKAISep 15, 201920 votes

Zed, similar to many other assassins, will actually take skill to play again once the game isn't filled to the brim with damage (and shitty/atrophied resistances) so they actually need to commit and invest to actually get kills. No more Zed going R and missing his double or triple Q but no worries, he just E and AA you twice and boom, dead.

.......

Still, Zed still has his own fundamental design problems.

This is mostly centered on how he has not 1 but 2 reposition tools (technically 3, since R can be used twice), while his offensive power is completely not lowered to compensate and in fact we could say his overall offensive power is actually higher given his R usually guarantees kills. That's just not right.

Zed basically has the LB problem. And we all know LB is bullshit.

SucctionSep 15, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Zed, similar to many other assassins, will actually take skill to play again once the game isn't filled to the brim with damage (and shitty/atrophied resistances) so they actually need to commit and invest to actually get kills. No more Zed going R and missing his double or triple Q but no worries, he just E and AA you twice and boom, dead.

.......

Still, Zed still has his own fundamental design problems.

This is mostly centered on how he has not 1 but 2 reposition tools (technically 3, since R can be used twice), while his offensive power is completely not lowered to compensate and in fact we could say his overall offensive power is actually higher given his R usually guarantees kills. That's just not right.

Zed basically has the LB problem. And we all know LB is bullshit.

Sadly straight nerfing assassin damage won't work either, because they can't commit to kills long enough, due to everyone else also having way too much damage.

It's a bit of a problem. Dunno how they'll solve it and I don't think they even will.

Zero Skill TankSep 15, 20194 votes

Zed, similar to many other assassins, will actually take skill to play again once the game isn't filled to the brim with damage (and shitty/atrophied resistances)

That's definitely part of the picture - it's way easier to play assassins when heavy CC champions are almost not picked.

ZaFishboneSep 17, 20191 votes

An even moderately skilled Zed is SO hard to hit with CC.

Cloud273Sep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Zed, similar to many other assassins, will actually take skill to play again once the game isn't filled to the brim with damage (and shitty/atrophied resistances) so they actually need to commit and invest to actually get kills. No more Zed going R and missing his double or triple Q but no worries, he just E and AA you twice and boom, dead.

.......

Still, Zed still has his own fundamental design problems.

This is mostly centered on how he has not 1 but 2 reposition tools (technically 3, since R can be used twice), while his offensive power is completely not lowered to compensate and in fact we could say his overall offensive power is actually higher given his R usually guarantees kills. That's just not right.

Zed basically has the LB problem. And we all know LB is bullshit.

LOL no. Zed never takes skill no matter what state the game is in.

MLDzXnRRRSep 15, 201914 votes

Zed took skill in season 4 and 5 (before the introduction of thunderlords in masteries). Now we have electrocute. He was a poke lane, in newer seasons he became potentially a kill lane (you really had to outplay before). Anyway, most champs don't take any skill. Xerath and Ziggs can potentially do 0 dmg, if they miss everything, so maybe they take skill (at least Ziggs has autoattack damage passive). Some other skillshot champions like Lux have big hitboxes, so it's hard to miss. Hm, Vladimir takes some time to learn, noob Vladimirs do 0 dmg (same can be said for Ryze, Riven, Yasuo, Aatrox). I guess completely immobile champs like Brand and Varus also take skill in the current league (you can get kited or not being able to teamfight optimally when the rest of your and opponents teams jump around walls etc).

3TWarriorSep 16, 20191 votes

he did, but back then, numbers were pretty important. If his winrate reflected his high skill cap and skill floor, it was fine, but when he could poke you freely in lane, then it was just awful

energy and resource-less used to be one of the most broken mechanics after all

Zero Skill TankSep 15, 20197 votes

Zed is really hard to master, but his baseline difficulty was never that great (i.e. really high skillcap, not that high skill floor).

I mean, his typical combo is pointing the enemy with mouse and tapping each button once, in metas when he is strong enough to kill with that he is picked by literally every midlaner.

He used to be difficult when you needed to poke your enemy for quite a while before going for all-in, or outplay CC to ensure you land enough autos for a kill, but that was not a case since like season 5.

KnightLakegaSep 16, 20192 votes

There's a problem there buddy...

You don't need to "master" zed to completely dominate with him across the board.. You don't need to do faker outplays to go 20/3 with him in a majority of your games...

He has so much insane damage burst straight out of the gate now, that after even 1 or 2 kills he's now popping off and 1 shotting everyone, 3-4 kills, he can miss half his kit, and still 1 shot squishies.

To make matters worse, since he has the LB problem of having so many large distance gap closers on his kit which he can use for extreme safety if need be while still securing fast easy kills..

Got behind in lane as zed? No problem, farm safely with Q, and use your shadow and farm safely with ease.

He is an assassin with literally everything overloaded into his kit... Massive INSTANT burst damage on his ult, up to 3 long range "dashes", Easy safe farming if you get behind, 2 different ways to get to the bakc line, AND get out safely with little threat to yourself (unless you're super super high elo where everyone is instantly turning on you in seconds, which lets be real, only happens in masters)...

What else could you possibly want on such an overloaded assassin? If he had to actually hit his skill shots to do major damage, and stagger his damage between skills with 1-2 second wait time in between (like akali), then he'd be balanced, but he can instant burst, face roll and get out free.

FlameHalbrdOkidoSep 17, 20191 votes

really annoys me that Zed gets more range/Cast range/command range on his Shadow than Azir does with his Soldiers. The Flies RIGHT in the face of their themes and balance mechanics. Azir is supposed to be a long-ish ranged emperor mage, and Zed is supposed to be a close range assassin...

and yeah id agree Zed is way to easy

MortismoSep 15, 20196 votes

nothing takes skill in silver

Zed geniusSep 15, 20196 votes

He only takes skill when you play vs competent opponents. If they have no idea what your champion does (Iron to Gold 1/2) he is braindead. From there and upwards where players kinda have an idea what to do and they don't just unironically int, you usually are left feeling like no matter what you do you have no impact.

When I was in like gold/silver i used to almost win every game. As I started climbing, I got definitely better on him, yet lost way more games than I used to. Compared to a lot of champions, zed has too much obvious counterplay, let that be the skill button item 2419 or simply throwing abilities where he lands after ult or using mobility. If you understand how zed works by playing a bit of him, and you have basic mechanic knowledge, you will find it hilariously easy to beat him. Yeah when he is fed he might just kill you anyway, but under real circumstances he should never get fed.

That's what takes skill about the champion, not his mechanics, similar to how Garen is like one of the hardest champions in high elo

Edit:

Sudden Impact and Electrocute and Duskblade will make sure your enemy dies

Sudden impact is not the optimal rune for zed, you need sustain in lane phase so you kinda have to run the healing thing.

Crescent DuskSep 15, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2mBfE31J,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-15T08:38:41.399+0000)

He only takes skill when you play vs competent opponents. If they have no idea what your champion does (Iron to Gold 1/2) he is braindead. From there and upwards where players kinda have an idea what to do and they don't just unironically int, you usually are left feeling like no matter what you do you have no impact.

When I was in like gold/silver i used to almost win every game. As I started climbing, I got definitely better on him, yet lost way more games than I used to. Compared to a lot of champions, zed has too much obvious counterplay, let that be the skill button or simply throwing abilities where he lands after ult or using mobility. If you understand how zed works by playing a bit of him, and you have basic mechanic knowledge, you will find it hilariously easy to beat him. Yeah when he is fed he might just kill you anyway, but under real circumstances he should never get fed.

That's what takes skill about the champion, not his mechanics, similar to how Garen is like one of the hardest champions in high elo

Edit:

Sudden impact is not the optimal rune for zed, you need sustain in lane phase so you kinda have to run the healing thing.

Stopwatch is not even close to counterplay. With 2 items Zed's CDR is already such that Q cd is back by the time stasis wears off and you get 3 guaranteed Q's on a stationary target. He's actually one of the least countered assassins by stop watch because his damage scaling is such that with his passive he only needs his WEQ combo to assassinate mages/supps/adc's, unlike most other assassins who need the ult for damage to seal a kill.

nm1010Sep 16, 20191 votes

These aren't Zed things, they are assassin things. You need to control the map with your mid game powerspike to snowball or you will have a hard time when people are grouped and have items. In a 1v1 stopwatch barely does anything other than delay your death, if it isn't a 1v1 you shouldn't be fighting. You maintain pressure and your team wins 4v3.

PaffWasTakenSep 15, 20196 votes

AD assassins got their skill floor lowered by half ever since the introduction of item 3147 , change my mind.

datfatguySep 15, 20192 votes

Why would I change your mind if you're right?

OniichanImComingSep 15, 20196 votes

Are you sure its just Zed? The damage in this game is so high that it applies to all champions and not just Zed.

1234123124123412Sep 16, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Are you sure its just Zed? The damage in this game is so high that it applies to all champions and not just Zed.

you're right, but some champs take a way bigger advantage out of the dmg creep, like leblanc , zed, champs that have safe dashes and now dont even have to be smart, they just : put a shadow down behind, throw a shurinken, ult ignite w go back on shadow the thing is THAT ALWAYS WORKS, its completely risk free because now they can just ONE SHOT PEOPLE EVEN IF THEY MISS THEIR SKILL SHOTS.... its dumb

SmashinBobSep 15, 20194 votes

Well it takes a while and its hard to learn zed, but just like any champion, its not really that hard to play when you learn and main him. I hate when people include skill level of champion as something important, after xxx no of games most mains can easily play with no brain involved. A simple counter example is annie, easy champion, but not played because requires very little "skill level" so nerfed into the ground and past silver you will never see her picked, makes no sense, the amount of time required to learn a champion shouldnt reflect its strenghts/weakness imo.

TorklSep 15, 20193 votes

I laugh every time i see a zed, the only way he can win midlane is by roaming and getting fed on your scrub botlane. If you start Rod of ages on almost any mage you will dominate zed and you might not even have to get a zhonya.

Zed geniusSep 15, 20193 votes

Zed's a 4fun champion at this point. I'd rather play versus a masters zed player than a diamond mage main.

Zero Skill TankSep 15, 201917 votes

Funny how Zed players say that, yet his stats are high enough to be permamently classified as S+ tier.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Zed geniusSep 15, 20192 votes

In videos made targeted at silver players. If a silver can pick up zed with a few games, they can carry all the time. Even in platinum if you try and play him, you won't be able to do much most of the time.

Zero Skill TankSep 15, 201911 votes

Right right, that's why he maintains 51% winrate and 10% pickrate despite being banned in almost every second game in p+.

Sorry but if you think Zed is as weak as you wrote, you are just biased in favor of your main.

Zed geniusSep 15, 20193 votes

i guess every zed player is just biased then. We don't know shit about the champion we main

ZeyphelSep 15, 20193 votes

[deleted]

Zed geniusSep 15, 20196 votes

Ivern is 51% winrate. I guess he's broken

Weiss GuertenaSep 16, 20191 votes

I mean, Zed mains whined pretty loudly about how badly nerfed he was back when AD reap was removed in favor of more damage across his kit when everyone else saw it for a buff it was, which was proven correct by stats after. So yes, that is either biased or not knowing shit about the champion. There is no third explanation.

Zed geniusSep 16, 20192 votes

He originally had % bonus damage on his W. This was removed for the reap. Then they removed the reap and he got +10 damage on q and increased W activation range. How is that not less overall damage? The reap got you like +30/40 in mid game, which wasn't on just q but every single bit of his damage. How is that a buff?

Weiss GuertenaSep 16, 20191 votes

If that was indeed a nerf, then how come his winrate had increased? I'm afraid facts and statistics don't speak in your favor here.

Darkdemon653Sep 15, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Zed used to be one of the most skill-demanding champions in the game

It's too early in the morning to have laughed that hard.

BârdSep 15, 20193 votes

Season 3 Zed:

Wait for the ADC to pop their QSS on a Morg Q.
W into position, R the ADC
Land your E, all 3 Q's, and a passive auto, dip.
ADC lives with 250 health because of Barrier. Roll your eyes.
Wait a couple seconds, finish them off with a W-E-Q
/all gg ez

Season 9 Zed:

Get within 650 fucking units of the ADC
W-E-Q-W-AA
Flash mastery

ArtumisPrimeSep 16, 20191 votes

Just going to be pedantic, but if you're using your W to get into R range, then you're not going to have 3 Qs.

InfernapeSep 16, 20193 votes

Remember when Zed dealt more DPS over burst and had to build items like BotRK and Bloodthirster and didn't instapop someone's HP bar? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

KnyronSep 15, 20192 votes

Zed was fine before they changed his R. Back then his shadow appeared behind the target, not at the point where he ulted.

That change was stupid as hell, the concept "safe assassin" should not exist.

mack9112Sep 15, 20192 votes

Zed is so bad like what champion are you playing into him that you are struggling ... real talk.

AnateraSep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Zed is so bad like what champion are you playing into him that you are struggling ... real talk.

Obvious baiter is obvious.

mack9112Sep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Obvious baiter is obvious.

Is this a thread about how to play against zed or just another rant ?

LauchmelderSep 16, 20191 votes

Neither. It's a post about how the OP feels about Zed. There is a very common misconception, mostly by people who turned defensive based on the topic at hand, where they think that "x is bullshit" (e.g. in Yasuos case) or "I don't feel like Zed takes a lot of skill any more" (like we have here) means that people are asking about how to play against those champions. Assuming so means completely missing the point of the current topic.

It's also not a rant, it's an opinion.

ArtumisPrimeSep 16, 20192 votes

Right. A champion with a 10.7% pickrate, 42.1% banrate, and still over a 50% winrate, all in Plat+, is bad....

mack9112Sep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Right. A champion with a 10.7% pickrate, 42.1% banrate, and still over a 50% winrate, all in Plat+, is bad....

If you don’t want to talk particulars about a champion then there is no real discussion here or be had.

I see no issue playing agains zed while you do why is that?

Let’s discuss that.

ArtumisPrimeSep 16, 20191 votes

So, because I brought facts to the discussion, there is no discussion to be had? Also, when did I ever say that I have issues with the champion?

Here's a point of fact: in Masters+ his presence is over 25% with a 51% winrate. This is a particular about the champion. He is strong enough to be picked or banned in more than 1 out of 4 games at the highest tiers of play. (Admittedly only 19% in challenger, but his winrate there is 53%)

He isn't the strongest champion in the game, but he is, by no means "bad" as you said. The statistics don't lie.

mack9112Sep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So, because I brought facts to the discussion, there is no discussion to be had? Also, when did I ever say that I have issues with the champion?

Here's a point of fact: in Masters+ his presence is over 25% with a 51% winrate. This is a particular about the champion. He is strong enough to be picked or banned in more than 1 out of 4 games at the highest tiers of play. (Admittedly only 19% in challenger, but his winrate there is 53%)

He isn't the strongest champion in the game, but he is, by no means "bad" as you said. The statistics don't lie.

The champion has clear counts of counterplay that can be exploited.

I apologize bad may not be the best terminology to use but the champion is not broken as this thread would like to indicate.

Zed has the Yassuo affect. A kit that is very enjoyable and easy to learn meaning it has a high play rate so people see him played a lot so people will also ban him a lot since he is seen so often. This also has the affect of meaning he has a very level of OTP / mains.

ill be ur daddySep 16, 20191 votes

They destroyed the champion, he is way too linear in his playstyle. His W cooldown is just fking bonkers lol. And he relies on getting ahead and Ult. He just has too little tools to work with, ever wonder why reworks and new champs are better, that's because they have overloaded kits, and they can do a whole lot of things, old champions just can't compete. Back in the day it was a few champions that had alot of stuff in their kits, like zed and lee sin, jayce, elise, compared to the other champs who were really basic in nature. So they were considered hardish. Nothing has changed with zed. Its just that the game is shit now lol. And It's not that zed is not a skill champ anymore, there is just way too much damage in the game.

Why play zed when you can play katarina, akali, sylas, hell kaisa, khazix. He does less damage than them comparitively esp in teamfights. In this meta, assasins are 0 to 100 in a blink like rengar, bruisers are like assassins they 0 to 100 pretty fast too, mages are assassins too, hell adc can be assassins as well.

Zed is not a good champ.