Towers are hilariously weak

datfatguy·Mar 10, 2018·94 votes·12,825 views

It's been said before, and I'll say it again. Towers need help.

I mean, does fortification even exist on them anymore? If it does, it really is rubbish.

Towers die way too easily, and also do no damage at all.

The inhib turrets and nexus turrets need to be stronger. A lot stronger. I know that old mechanic of theirs back in like season 5 where they would consistently damage a champion was quite weird, but at least they were useful for defending against dives.

But come on Riot, turrets are so weak it's actually quite funny. They're as weak as a tank Janna standing still.

I think one pretty cool solution would be that every turret closer to the base is much stronger than the one before it. So the outer turret in a lane is relatively weak (hopefully not as weak as it is now) but as you get to the nexus turrets, it's a real pain to deal with them.

Soooooo, yeah. What do you think?

121 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirMar 10, 201869 votes

Soooooo, yeah. What do you think?

It's hard to weigh in on "hilariously" weak. I think there are some things about towers that could be improved. Some thoughts:

I don't really think turrets universally just die too easily. I think if the outers especially lasted a bit longer (fewer "I lost my outer in one back" moments), however, that could be an improvement.
As players have gotten better at playing around turrets, managing their aggro mechanics and diving them has probably become too easy.
Turret damage on tanks especially feels pretty low. Tanks should feel better about taking a few turret shots than others, but it can feel over the top.

Those stand out to me as the opportunities for improvement if we're talking turrets.

warpenguin555Mar 10, 201815 votes

Any chance the nexus turrets could get something? They're pretty terrible

RiotRiotRepertoirMar 10, 201834 votes

We'd need to be careful on that. If the enemy is beating on them, the game is frequently already over regardless of how powerful they are, so it runs the risk of teams just sitting there longer in hopeless defenses. I say this as someone that prefers not to surrender and finds those epic base defenses really satisfying, but I don't think that's a universal sentiment.

The IcebornMar 10, 20185 votes

{quoted}

We'd need to be careful on that. If the enemy is beating on them, the game is frequently already over regardless of how powerful they are, so it runs the risk of teams just sitting there longer in hopeless defenses. I say this as someone that prefers not to surrender and finds those epic base defenses really satisfying, but I don't think that's a universal sentiment.

No actually not... The thing is you need to prevent 4 people from going vs one enemy under a tower... You need to increase the firepower according to how many enemy champions are around it... So if there four enemy champions make the tpower 3x stronger or something like that... Enemies need to be punished for tower diving... And theres always a chance to win...

ArkVeilMar 10, 20189 votes

If you consider that 4 v 1 means the team is putting 4/5 of their resources into killing one person and the one doesn't have reinforcements or didn't back up sooner, I feel that the 4 should be rewarded for out moving them. How would you feel if you were the 4 and you can't dive one person who has no backup coming because the turret is there? If 4 can't take down 1 + turret, how does 5 take down 5 + turret?

CosnirakMar 11, 201817 votes

I think right now it's not about ending an already over game. It's about a game not being over because 1-2 people died 30 minutes in. It's about teams who are ahead not losing solely because baron was stolen. It's also about how the game is sometimes only over when someone is beating on your nexus turrets because your nexus turrets are so worthless at helping you defend. Sieges should create conflict between the champions, not just be a fireworks show as buildings explode. Think of how the respawn locations and overtime mechanic in Overwatch naturally help the aggressors at the start and the defenders at the end and it creates such good tension and exciting gameplay.

I don't know what the correct solution is, but I'm fairly certain it involves things far more drastic than anything Riot is even remotely considering right now. The degree of disagreement between some players and Riot over this issue seems to be an ocean wide. I'm pretty sure if you doubled the hp of nexus turrets it would barely increase average game time by a minute, maybe less. But I'm also pretty sure no one on Riot's balance team would remotely agree. Can some kind of seemingly drastic change at least be tested, even if only internally at Riot, to see if what you guys think is a big change is really that big?

All of the really long pro games I've seen didn't last that long because of anything to do with the strength of turrets, it was entirely about wave clear and enough players reaching full build that any fight was really risky for both sides. So why does Riot seem incredibly adverse to turrets being a little stronger?

DeadUnbornMar 11, 20182 votes

The problem with that is that more often than not you don't get to come back from that unless the enemy actually screws up... snowball and all that. I feel like when I come back from games where the enemy is knocking down my base towers before the 30 minute mark its just that they screwed up, not that I outplayed them

Troll for TrumpMar 12, 20181 votes

the game is frequently already over regardless of how powerful they are, so it runs the risk of teams just sitting there longer in hopeless defenses

Do you think a slower-pased game state through said "hopeless defenses" is unfun or bad for the game, like the way Ziggs would freeze games a couple of seasons ago?

Couldn't those "hopeless defenses" be made less hopeless through lower lategame respawn times/turret changes/minion changes?

Adding stuff like the baron/elder changes seems to contradict this playstyle, as they make stalling games more difficult. It seems like having teams sitting there with "hopeless defenses" is bad, so why?

WublerdudeMar 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

We'd need to be careful on that. If the enemy is beating on them, the game is frequently already over regardless of how powerful they are, so it runs the risk of teams just sitting there longer in hopeless defenses. I say this as someone that prefers not to surrender and finds those epic base defenses really satisfying, but I don't think that's a universal sentiment.

You know what you should do? You guys HAVE a crumble mechanic in the game, or at least visual effect, why not let that effect the strength of the tower? So higher health = more defense, lower = squishier tower, this would prevent level 4 ganks/first towers. and for damage? What if you made it pierce armor more and more every shot? Up to a solid 40-50% so tanks wouldn't dive as easy. the tower shots look like lasers, why do they not do magical damage?

SwiftKitten88Mar 10, 201816 votes

{quoted}

Turret damage on tanks especially feels pretty low. Tanks should feel better about taking a few turret shots than others, but it can feel over the top.

"a few" is 4-5" not 20-40....

RiotRiotRepertoirMar 10, 201811 votes

Could be, yeah

EkyonKunMar 11, 20186 votes

If I may speak my own opinion, I honestly think tanks SHOULD be able to tank tower shots. Soaking up damage should be an ideal situation for any tank player.

My problem is any level 11+ squishy player just casually strolling under tower and happily ignoring tower shots while blasting people to bits. I'm aware this is mid game where you should be protecting towers more than they protect you, but I feel like a tank should be required for a dive if the target is full health. Or if one diving is snowballing extremely well, but these instances should be far less common. If you have no significant bonus armor or health, a tower should ALWAYS be dealing non-negligible damage.

SociopathFriendMar 10, 20184 votes

Turrets should not 5-shot tanks fyi. You're a tank you should easily be able to tank twice the turret shots a squishy should at a minimum

SwiftKitten88Mar 11, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Turrets should not 5-shot tanks fyi. You're a tank you should easily be able to tank twice the turret shots a squishy should at a minimum

i was refering to maybe 4-5 MORE shots than normal players.. so 6-9 turrets shots honstly i feel that 20% max hp true damage would be worth adding from the 4th shots onwards

becuase you will still likely take 1-2 more shots past those 5 that would have been 100% because of sheilds and healing

so on average a normal champ taking 3-4 shots... before needing to really pull off

after taking the first 4 hots the next 5 (9 total) will be % max hp true damage. due to shields and healing again they would likely survive 1-2 more so thats 10-11 shots before the tank dies... which honestly is too much to be tanking anyways... either properly swap aggro wait for a minion or something..

SkorchMar 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Turret damage on tanks especially feels pretty low. Tanks should feel better about taking a few turret shots than others, but it can feel over the top.

"a few" is 4-5" not 20-40....

Maybe not 4-5. I can see a good 6-7. But... not over that probably.

datfatguyMar 10, 20183 votes

Yes. The first point must happen. I can not tell you how many times I backed for the first time (for some reason it was always when I was playing top lane) and the outer turret was at full hp. Then without the enemy jungler's help, my lane opponent would have brought the turret down to nothing.

Also, kind of playing along with your second point, I agree. However, I think one thing turrets need to do is start firing their newfound target a lot quicker. If you're diving the enemy or they're diving you, you can see that the turret takes far too long to focus on you/the enemy champion and actually start firing.

EDIT: Also, very impressed that you actually decided to reply to this. Keep up the great work.

Tomoe GozenMar 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

It's hard to weigh in on "hilariously" weak. I think there are some things about towers that could be improved. Some thoughts:

I don't really think turrets universally just die too easily. I think if the outers especially lasted a bit longer (fewer "I lost my outer in one back" moments), however, that could be an improvement.

As players have gotten better at playing around turrets, managing their aggro mechanics and diving them has probably become too easy.

Turret damage on tanks especially feels pretty low. Tanks should feel better about taking a few turret shots than others, but it can feel over the top.

Those stand out to me as the opportunities for improvement if we're talking turrets.

What do you think about the previous turret mechanics like 2nd Tier turret shielding (not champion shielding to prevent sieges, just regening turret shield that staves off champ damage, not minion damage) and turret lasers that slow attackers? Do you think these mechanics were healthy before and do you think that they have a place to come back in some form?

RiotRiotRepertoirMar 10, 201814 votes

I think those mechanics were okay but not excellent. They could come back I guess, but it doesn't seem like it's the only option, and there's a bit of complexity cost to adding/reintroducing mechanics like that.

patmax17Mar 12, 20183 votes

What about increased turret attack speed, similar to twisted treeline (but not that extreme, of course)? That would make turrets very obviously and visibly stronger, without the need to learn new mechanics

SpoofghoulMar 10, 20185 votes

we need up-gradable turrets

Let us buy items for them, they got an inventory

Make these turrets reward more gold for each additional upgrade since the will be harder to kill

Tomoe GozenMar 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

we need up-gradable turrets

Let us buy items for them, they got an inventory

Make these turrets reward more gold for each additional upgrade since the will be harder to kill

The problem i see with that is, who's going to be tasked with such a job? Every champion is worried about their own gold income to pad their stats and do good, the game has never been oriented towards having to pad the stats of base defenses. If Riot ever added this into the game, League would be played completely differently.

Base defenses don't help you win the game, they can only become more durable and damaging. But a team that would be behind gold might be given a "trap purchase" to upgrade a tier base defense in order not to lose it early. If you still do, you've just spent gold for an objective you already lost, given the enemy team more gold and you have even less to work with to get back into the game.

The way i see this is that winning teams would get more gold to upgrade tower defenses, which would improve their chances of winning because then the losing team wouldn't have many chances to split push and take down turrets, if enemy champions aren't an option. And quite frankly, League isn't Tower Defense.

WiegrafOfValorMar 10, 201813 votes

{quoted}

As players have gotten better at playing around turrets, managing their aggro mechanics and diving them has probably become too easy.

Why you guys keep saying that? If that was the problem no one would be complaining, our problem is that they aren't juggling turret aggro correctly and still getting away with it.

Back in season 3 if someone was tower diving my adc and I (Playing as Leona) would stun them under turret even if it's a 3 man gank, surely at least the one I stunned would die and then the other 2 would have to get away to not die and we would have traded 1 for 1. But now I just got back from a game that the enemy LULU!!!! started the dive at lvl 5, I stunned her while she had turret aggro, she took 6 shots, they killed my adc with a 3 man gank and them she got away with 10% hp, no one tanked the turret for her, they didn't play that smart or anything, they just went in and out.

That's our problem.

Turret damage on tanks especially feels pretty low. Tanks should feel better about taking a few turret shots than others, but it can feel over the top.

There again, always the tank to blame, if was just the tanks that were the problem, again, no one would be complaining. First because mostly we have one or maybe two tank(ish) champions per team and they need some items to get beefy, meanwhile ppl are getting tower dived mid lane by Viktor and Khazix at lvl 5.

No sir, you can't put that on tanks and walk away. Please riot you need to acknowledge that turrets suck at dealing enough damage to provide a stable early game as they were meant to.

#PS: THE ONLY REASON THE OTHER TURRETS TAKES "A WHILE" TO FALL IS BECAUSE IN THIS HYPER DAMAGE, 2 SECONDS-LONG TEAMFIGHTS, NO ONE WANTS TO PUSH A TIER 2 OR 3 TOWER WITHOUT THEIR TEAM WITH THEM.

#PSS: Apparently nowadays it's toxic to ask ppl to perform an analysis to the problem you point it out and figured how to solved because it's their best interest, you also have to at least give an idea on how to tackle the problem, this is my two cents:

MAKE TOWER'S DAMAGE RAMP UP FASTER AND FOR A HIGHER CEILING.

FROM: Unique Passive - Warming Up: Turrets gain 40% damage each time they strike a champion (Max 120% bonus damage). [100% > 140% > 180% > 220%]

TO: Unique Passive - Warming Up: Turrets gain 50% damage each time they strike a champion (Max 200% bonus damage). [100% > 150% > 200% > 250% > 300%]

NEW PASSIVE: _EACH SHOT MARKS AN ENEMY CHAMPION, AFTER MARKING THE ENEMY CHAMPION 4 TIMES, THE 5TH SHOT EXPLODE THE MARKS AND REDUCES THE TARGET ARMOR BY X% FOR Y SECONDS. TARGETING ANOTHER CHAMPION REMOVES THE MARK OF THE PREVIOUS TARGET. _

#WITH THAT PASSIVE IT STILL DOESN'T PUNISH GOOD PLAYERS THAT "have gotten better at playing around turrets, managing their aggro mechanics" WHILE PUNISH PLAYERS THAT ABUSE THE FACT THAT TURRETS ARE WEAK. AKA PROS CAN STILL DIVE PPL IN LCS WHILE GOLD PLAYERS DIE IN EVERY DIVE, EVERYONE WINS IN THE END.

SociopathFriendMar 10, 20181 votes

Why you guys keep saying that? If that was the problem no one would be complaining, our problem is that they aren't juggling turret aggro correctly and still getting away with it.

Because it's true- the playerbase in general is growing experienced. Even blind silver games have people knowing tanks go in, start aggro, and then wait to leave as long as possible to ensure its hits the damage-dealers the least.

There again, always the tank to blame, if was just the tanks that were the problem, again, no one would be complaining. First because mostly we have one or maybe two tank(ish) champions and they need some items to get beefy, meanwhile ppl are getting tower dived mid lane by Viktor and Khazix at lvl 5.

No sir, you can't put that on tanks and walk away. Please riot you need to acknowledge that turrets suck at dealing enough damage to provide a stable early game as they were meant to.

There again, it's this magical hypothetical world where the level 5 squishy assassin/mage somehow survived a bunch of turret shots and didn't die purely because the turret "Didn't do enough damage". 'Enough' in this case being an opinionated area. What did they tank? 3 shots at most? Each? Did they walk away with half their HP or something or barely alive? As he mentioned- players in general have become much better at knowing the limits of champions. All turrets do is introduce additional damage- damage you can calculate and play around. It's not even that difficult. Example: I have 700 hp, turret deals 100, 200, then 300 damage to me. I know I can tank 3 shots without issue and walk away.

WiegrafOfValorMar 10, 20184 votes

How can you possibly be wrong in everything you said? I'm not even mad, it's been amazing.

First, no people just aren't that good at tower diving. They are literally just walking under enemy towers and walking away with 300g on their pockets.

Kha and Viktor were at 70% and 60% HP respectively, Viktor at lvl 5 survived 4 shots and Kha just jumped away after the kill. Plus Viktor didn't even had boots.

#AND LASTLY YOU SHOWED US HOW AMAZING PPL ARE IN CALCULATING TOWER DAMAGE WITH YOUR EXAMPLE, TELLING ME IF THE TURRET DEALS 100 DMG PER SHOT YOU CAN SURVIVE IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 300 HP, WHILE FORGETTING THEY RAMP UP 40% DMG PER SHOT, THAT MEANS IN YOUR OWN EXAMPLE YOU WOULD HAVE TAKEN (100 + 140 + 180 = 420) 420 DAMAGE FROM THE TOWER AND DIED LIKE A BLOODY WHITE KNIGHT YOU ARE!

Avios1Mar 11, 20182 votes

you okay bud?

Better JunglerMar 11, 20182 votes

how do you do that obnoxiiously bold text? i need.[sg-lux]

WiegrafOfValorMar 11, 20182 votes

use # on the beginning of the paragraph.

PoskeMar 10, 20182 votes

Ugh your opinions are so off to a point IIIIIIIIIIIIII ....

Here is the reality (Not trying to be rude)

Ever since Tower buffs they do to much damage and turtle horrible players to hard specialy in melee vs ranged matchups (Creates farming simulator in lots of cases)
During stopwatch meta the above wasnt the case, but we all knew that wasnt going to last due to it being quite cancerous (it was horrible fix to tower hugging but it was a fix for a while)
**TOWERS GIVE WAY TO MUCH GOLD ** > This is a main issue with towers. And this is never talked about which is concerning
Tanks are supposed to be great against towers. I am more concerned how they become squishy after yet they dont become tanks with 1 item
Sieging is kinda dull, The fact that there is only 1 vulnerable point in laning phase when sieging (Tower itself) might be an issue Perhaps different structure setup
Towers shouldnt be immortal we need to open up a map for melee champs (this is at good state)

The fact that you think that towerdives are to easy is extremly concerning.. Maybe in 3vs1 you can pull of a towerdive.. else it wont happen. Dont buy onto 8 months old cycle jerk

Another issue is that coinflip 50/50 smites decide which base falls

Instead of reducing a baron impact and giving players more security IN STARTING Baron and not being afraid of smite steal by simple suggestion Increase smite damage by 600 if a smite user autoattacks baron 3 times (make it work with fiddle drain to)

Cho gath, Kalista and many others are priority picks due to this borderline cancerous issue again never discussed

Drop the baron impact less gold or impact anyhow. But make every jungler kalista basicly (she is generalist anyway )

#THAT IS HOW YOU PUT INCENTIVE ON BARON

not by already making OVERPOWERD objective more influencal AT ITS Current coinflipness

AirKingNeoMar 10, 20185 votes

TOWERS GIVE WAY TO MUCH GOLD > This is a main issue with towers. And this is never talked about which is concerning

I agree.

PoskeMar 10, 20181 votes

Well I got downvoted by 3 so far

I suggest hiring this people for Riot game design team

Clueless as fk

Also I would like to add to a post that ramping tower damage is also a bad design it just makes melee situation worse

AirKingNeoMar 11, 20185 votes

Ramp damage is fine because it means surviving a dive makes it risker for the opponent.

AirKingNeoMar 10, 20185 votes

Give bot lane turret back fortification. Revert fortification for mid and top turrets (50% until 7 minutes), but make Bot turret 75% until 7 minutes. If needed, make fortification decay 5% per minute past 2 (still fall off at 7 minutes).

This will keep out lane swaps while also making turrets (specifically bot turret) not die instantly. Bot has two people, so losing a 2v2 means your turret can die a lot faster as well.

As for tanks taking nothing, give some bonus armor pen or something.

IfnethMar 10, 20182 votes

And the improvements to late-game damage to tanks don’t have to be large. A tank who takes turret aggro should feel threatened and want their team to hurry, lest the should should be so weakened by the turret shots that the enemy team will turn on them. Right now, that is not true often enough.

So, what if we changed turrets’ Penetrating Bullets passive into a Shredding Bullets one? Rather than ignoring 30% of armor, the turret would reduce the armor of targets hit by 10% with each shot, stacking up to 30%. This change would make tanks feel extra tanky on the first couple shots but reward their enemies for engaging on ones that stay too long.

RaiyzaMar 11, 20185 votes

No, towers die too easily. One recall is all it takes.

AnomanderMar 11, 20183 votes

Why not buff towers power based on the number of near by allies. 20% damage increase for each nearby ally against enemy champions. (this doesn't affect damage to minions) This would give tower dives more risk esp on the squishier bot lane without increasing the damage to minions or affecting safe tower siege or splitpushing at all.

Yoinked Your UltMar 11, 20181 votes

Shut up Rito games. "We want Wukong's passive to change, it feels bland" "Ok, here's a buff to his Q" What? F you that's now what we asked.

Tomoe GozenMar 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Master Of Metal,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2GnaBwrc,comment-id=00050017,timestamp=2018-03-11T09:57:56.625+0000)

Shut up Rito games. "We want Wukong's passive to change, it feels bland" "Ok, here's a buff to his Q" What? F you that's now what we asked.

Lissandra also needs a new passive and Riot hasn't found a good one for her so they don't want to half-ass the job and have to change her multiple times. Wukong at least has gotten a buff to make him feel better, Liss is still not getting any changes because the work on her passive is not ready.

Yoinked Your UltMar 11, 20181 votes

This isn't a good excuse, Wukong has been like this for a WHILE, if you can't think of something hire more people that do the job better. This is how a proper company works.

Tomoe GozenMar 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Master Of Metal,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2GnaBwrc,comment-id=0005001700000000,timestamp=2018-03-11T15:10:45.712+0000)

This isn't a good excuse, Wukong has been like this for a WHILE, if you can't think of something hire more people that do the job better. This is how a proper company works.

You can't hire a million people to write a book and give each of them a few letters thinking you'll get the job done in a few minutes. There's only so much people you can hire before the job can't be split into more elementary pieces and that it becomes even more of a hurdle to coordinate such a massive effort, for something far more simpler.

Riot has many teams working on balance as well as skins, VGUs, etc. Thinking that because Wukong hasn't been a part of the patch notes for quite a while is because they lack the people to take a look at him is not how it usually works. They have a priority list they go through every time they decide what's the issue they need to be working on as of that time. Riot can do a big pass for champions but they always avoid making such big changes unless it's the Preseason.

3TWarriorMar 12, 20181 votes

perhaps, but you could have volunteers working on individual issues (as i'm sure a game of 100 million active players can provide) , they could have someone in charge of approving concept art and lore for abstract restrictions (it's weird but there are a lot of them)

There has also been the issue that it has been discussed that the game is intentionally being made shorter so that people in Internet Cafes or other places of pay per time used will be able to use their time effectively

Heck, instead of having closed source developing, Riot could even improve relations by having a REAL poll advertised for everyone to pick what is currently the largest issue for something that is at hand, so that it is a democratic process instead of random selections from buffs and debuffs to champions

They've had a meme for this for years and it stuck: Better Nerf Irelia!

FCJAAAAGOOOOMar 11, 20181 votes

5% more health on outers won't improve them at all though. They need a lot of help especially since fb towers now exists.

FCJAAAAGOOOOMar 11, 20181 votes

~5% more effective health on outers won't improve them at all though. They need a lot of help especially since fb towers now exists. As in: 20+%.

PickIe RickkkMar 12, 20181 votes

Why remove lasers? Add them back, seriously. Towers should be more threatening than they currently are

Kiraid LciemMar 12, 20181 votes

Turrets do too little damage.
League has Mobility Creep. As you increase the average mobility of champions, you have to do something besides increasing damage to stop people from diving and taking little damage.

Idea) As soon as you enter a towers range. A debuff starts stacking on you. When you leave the tower range, the stacks fall off one by one. Each stack buffs tower damage, but At full stacks it does a minimum amount of % true damage (instead) when the normal damage is lower (Maybe 12% True Damage).

What it solves:

An Foe attacks you under tower, but has so many aggro drops, that the tower starts to shoot, but then is canceled, even though they are under your tower. With my idea, the tower damage is still increasing, even though they are aggro dropping the attacks.
A team waits for minions, then walks through your tower, taking no damage, to kill you on the other side. With my idea, when the tower finally starts shooting them, it will not start with dealing the lowest possible damage.

VekknaMar 12, 20181 votes

There are also a handful of champs who innately dive too easily by dropping turret aggro or otherwise trivializing the damage. The prevalence of stopwatch has contributed to that problem.

When it comes to dives, untargetability is just innately too strong. So if I'm Talon and I dive a turret, I can just jump the turret to drop agro. If I'm Akali on the same dive, Shroud does nothing. If I'm Moakai and I dive a turret, I can drop aggro with W. If I'm Gragas, I just have to tank it.

In general, this sort of inconsistency can feel frustrating, because a lot of untargetability isn't immediately apparent to players. Examples: Kled dismount, Camille R, Ekko R, and Yasuo R (seems to be untargetable but isn't listed in tooltip). Like, in terms of clarity, there's absolutely nothing to distinguish a Maokai W from Rek'Sai tunneling, but one is untargetable and the other isn't.

I think that sort of thing contributes to the frustration around turrets, but simply increasing turret damage will widen the gap between champs who can drop turret aggo and those who can't. It might be a bit more equitable if A) untargetability didn't cancel turret shots during their travel time or B) turret shots dealt damage instantly without travel time. Either change would better balance champs with and without untargetability in their kits.

Devilreaper XIIIMar 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's hard to weigh in on "hilariously" weak. I think there are some things about towers that could be improved. Some thoughts:

I don't really think turrets universally just die too easily. I think if the outers especially lasted a bit longer (fewer "I lost my outer in one back" moments), however, that could be an improvement.

As players have gotten better at playing around turrets, managing their aggro mechanics and diving them has probably become too easy.

Turret damage on tanks especially feels pretty low. Tanks should feel better about taking a few turret shots than others, but it can feel over the top.

Those stand out to me as the opportunities for improvement if we're talking turrets.

on top of them getting destroyed quite quickly, there are also banner + baron buff and a specific rune which shall not be named! aiding players in melting towers.

thing is it takes a level 1 sion to destroy 2 opponents under tower, and still walking away alive, this has nothing to do with playing around turrets, they just don't do damage..... scuttler crab has more damage in its pinky .o. if you ask me towers should increase in penetration or just have true damage.

armor formula = total armor divided through (100 + 50) (times 100) = damage reduction % damage done formula = (total armor divided through 100) times outcome damage reduction = total damage done most champions have about 50 armor at level 1 so

50 divided through (100 + 50) (times 100) = 33% damage reduction.

(250 divided through 100) times 33% = 82,5 damage done/taken.

having 500 hp = 82,5 times 7 hits = death.

since towers have 30% armor pen at all times. it ignores 30% armor meaning,

(50 divided through 100) times 30 (times 100) = 15 armor ignored

(so 35 divided through 100) times 33% = 11,55 more damage

which means 82,5 + 11,55 = 94,05 total damage.

the result is : having 500 hp = 94,05 times 6 hits = death

not very effective system there......

unless = true damage than 2 hits. i advice true damage instead of armor pen or raise the armor pen please O,O it should be 2-3 hits = death not 6-7 [sg-ahri-1]

the damage is pretty consistent atm and this is why towers are underwhelming.

Darkin HybridMar 10, 201811 votes

Heimerdinger needs to talk to Riot, about their current tower defenses.

SuperCommanderMar 10, 20185 votes

I wouldn't mind all towers having double HP. That way you actually chip away at them instead of them falling the first time someone ever starts landing hits on them.

VICKLIUSMar 10, 20182 votes

that might work, but ive heard a most of the problem is from 4/5 man diving in the early game.

I have some ideas like different tower shot types, permanent dmg increase, an tower surge, would you like to hear them?

Sennamain RoleMar 11, 20182 votes

Some ideas for turret buffs:

Turrets deal grievous wounds
Turrets penetrate shields
After turrets ramp up to full damage, they also slow their target
Ohm Wrecker gains a defensive alternative
While towers are fortified, they take less damage from champions when there are fewer than 3 enemy champions around
Allow players to bind with turrets using items