That skt is more than just faker. Faker fanboys need to stop thinking that faker is wayyyyy better than everyone else and that he's the only reason that skt is the best team in the world.
Edit: skt not sky fuck you autocorrect
CPU BIanc21 votesSKT Just proved that Fiora is a disgusting champion , but good thing riot nerfed Evelynn 4Head
BeatinWarDrumz2 votesYes, this too
Rip dominatrix 2009- oh wait she was only good on release...
Melledoneus2 votesThe only problem I had with Fiora was her stupid heal and maybe her % HP true damage from time to time.
Now they're nerfing it and I am happy.
Spicay4 votesHe's still the best.
He was cocky that game, had a bad match-up and was also heavily focused in fights even while behind.
BeatinWarDrumz1 votesI agree, but stop pretending like he's in some league of his own. He is the best, but he's not a god.
Troll for Trump2 votesIf the proplayers think he's good enough to target him while he's feeding. Than he's good.
But trying to stop "#fakerplays" Is like trying to get the boards to stop complaining about anything Or for twitch to not use Kappa.
Yxgl222HaX1 votesOr 
not to take 
and your kills in lane
Lugg3 votesI have been saying this all season. Faker is WAY past his prime. He probably isn't even one of the top 5 mids in the world now. Hell, Faker may only be the 3rd best player on his team.
iamleburk1 votesOk clue me in... who is a better mid than faker? And who is the better player on SKT? Easyhoon, the guy they had to take out because he couldn't handle EDG or FNC, or Marin the guy they funnel all their gold into so he can be relevent in this top-centric meta?
Lugg2 votesBetter than Faker? Pawn for starters. He has dominated Faker this season. Half the mids at Worlds right now can give him a run for his money.
And by the way, the reason Marin gets the gold funneled to him is because SKT knows that Faker can't carry him like he used too.
Watch what happens at Worlds when Faker goes up against the other top tier mids.
iamleburk1 votesWoah what? Pawn has faced him twice this year, the first time faker carried on Kassadin and the second time he had a cs lead against the morgana counter pick. Pawn has also been looking shaky on EDG, he only wins lane with counterpicks. And he lost to DoinB.... 3 times.
Marin gets money because thats the best way to win games in this meta and because faker doesn't need it to perform. He literally gets the least percent gold of any mid in OGN, but has the third highest damage percent. I will gladly watch Faker go up against the top tier mids, he goes up against Pawn tomorrow actually. And you said he wasnt top 5, what were the other four? Because you maybe have Rookie and Godv, pawn for some reason, aaaaaand then who? Coco? Febi? Bjerg? Xpeke?
And rookie and GodV are way to inconsistent for me to rate them higher. Although they are like Xpeke in a way; when they have a good game, they have perfect game. But then random shit happens like GodV's weird performance in the LPL semi's and Rookie's game yesterday. But i agree those two are very close, imo #2 and #3
Lugg2 votesPawn has ALWAYS been better. He is 12-6 vs Faker all time. The first game he ever played against Faker, he shut him down 0/5!
Here is an article that proves beyond a doubt that Pawn is better:
iamleburk1 votesLol did you actually watch those games? Faker didn't underperform at all. He was only ever killed by pawn on counter picks. His team was absolute crap. He had Piglet on his team for god sakes, and he cant even survive NA.
Also, just saw Faker vs Pawn. It wasn't close.
Although i want to point out something about Pawn that i do respect a lot. He somehow knows every single possible matchup in the game really well, like his champion pool is literally the League cast. So when he is given the counterpick, he does a lot better because he KNOWs how to abuse it. except for that Morg vs Leblanc lol, he didn't abuse that
Lugg2 votesI guess you didn't even bother to read the article I linked you. Instead you fall back on one game where Pawn had a bad game against Faker, which had a lot to do with how bad his team was playing.
iamleburk1 votesBut if there was a better player in that position, there might have been some carry potential out of that Ekko. There simply wasn't. The idea that Pawn counters faker is overhyped, he only outplays him with hard counters, and it was made clear at MSI that Pawn does NOT instantly tilt Faker. That article is sensationalizing the rivalry, which is understandable, but it doesn't come close to "proving without a doubt" that Pawn > Faker. Now please give me an example, this year when Faker had a legitimate roster behind him, that Pawn actually outperformed Faker. Please, just one example. You have 3 games to choose from.
Also, i like how you try to tell me Faker only looks good because of his team, and some how Pawn's success is completely unrelated to playing with arguably the best jungler and a top 2 ADC, not to mention Koro was literally the best top laner at MSI. Notice how EDG starts failing when their top lane and jungle don't play well? Pawn is solid, but he simply doesn't carry games.
Lugg2 votesI think the career matchups show that Pawn is better. Even after today, Pawn is 5 wins ahead of Faker. That's pretty significant. In today's match, Faker won because he had a hard counter. So those things can even out.
I won't say Pawn is way better than Faker, that would be impossible for anyone, Faker is just too good. However, I do think Pawn is better head to head.
iamleburk1 votesOk so whats the tier list now? G4-Pawn-Bjerg-Nagne-Pobelter. I mean G4 clearly has to be the best in the world rn, he solo killed Pawn for gods sake! that never happens!
Lugg1 votesYeah, let's totally ignore the fact that it was a follow up to a 2v1 gank and Pawn was low from that. It was a great play, but not really a solo kill.
Let's also ignore the fact that Faker just dodged Ryu.
iamleburk1 votesThen he should have backed lol. He got solo'ed by a wildcard mid, lets not sugarcoat it.
Oh yea Faker totally didn't play because he was afraid of ryu. I mean that makes total sense, I would take Pawn over Ryu and G4 any day!
And what about Faker's solokill? We gonna ignore that too? I guess TF does have a mobility spell, Ryze must be a hardcounter!
In all seriousness, the majority of top tier mids have looked like shit at this tournament. GodV, Rookie, and Pawn are all doing terrible. Maybe at their peak they can match Faker, but Faker doesn't slump like this, and his consistency makes him better. At this point, his closest competition in this tournament is Xpeke, Bjerg, Coco, Maple and Febiven. I guess Febiven>Rookie is questionable though, but GodV and Pawn are looking really bad. And i know this might sound contradictory that im saying Pawn is playing like shit but Pawn > Ryu, but Ryu is also doing really bad. Vs EDG i cant remember him getting off one good ult... hell, he barely hit his ult at all. He's also the only matchup Pawn didn't get solokilled in today :P
Lugg1 votesI don't blame Pawn for not backing. BKT and G4 had played very passive up to that point in the tourney. So he was surprised just like everyone else.
That was a great solo kill by Faker today for sure. He waited for the TF gold card to be on CD and did a flash initiate. Great play. Even though he hasn't played his best this season, he is still a great player.
One last thing, statistically Faker has only been the 4th best player on his team this tournament and is leading his team in deaths. So he hasn't been having a good time either. So I just have to laugh at anyone saying he's the best player in the world. He is only the 3rd best player on his team right now at best.
iamleburk1 votesOk so he disrespected G4 and got punished for it. Faker did the same thing against Febiven, its still a legit solokill.
And what statistics are you using? Because i agree Faker isn't solo-carrying games anymore, partly because he doesn't have to, and partly because it isn't the best meta for it. I also agree that Marin is one of the best top laners in the world, but i also factor in consistency in my evaluation of a player. He was one of the main reasons, besides wolf, that SKT lost at MSI. Marin does really well with a gold lead, so they give him a gold lead. Faker does really well either way, so they let others on the team have the gold. Although i guess the argument can be made for Marin if you include shotcalling.
I really dont know who else on the team you rate above him. Actually, im still waiting for which mids you are putting in the top 5 above him. I guess you were counting Pawn as 5 people, and we saw today how he "top 5" he is today. That said, I hope he comes back into form. I love tournaments with stacked midlanes.
Look, i get that faker isn't some god; he makes mistakes he is human. He got solo'ed by Febiven, he misses CS in lane, he doesn't have some perfect score or anything like that. But I'm saying he makes the least mistakes out of any player in the world. Want to know why Faker has the most deaths on his team? He is being focused by every single team. Marin on the other hand, is left alone most games and is barely ganked (see: EDG vs SKT). Literally every fight they blew all their cooldowns to kill faker first, ignoring the fed Darius and Bang. This isn't faker making a mistake, actually i think its other teams overestimating him a bit and going a little too hard to kill him, but its not him messing up.
Lugg1 votesThe stats I'm using are on the LOL website.
Name Role KDA K D A Kill% CS PER MIN Bang ADC 71.0 27 1 44 68.9% 9.1 Wolf Support 15.6 5 5 73 75.7% 1.2 Easyhoon Mid 8.7 7 3 19 74.3% 8.7 MaRin Top 7.5 36 8 24 58.3% 9.2 Bengi Jungle 6.5 13 10 52 63.1% 2.9 Faker Mid 5.7 15 7 25 58.8% 8.8
As you can see from the stats, Faker is basically the weak link on the team right now.
As for who is better than Faker at mid. So far Faker is next to last in kill participation (16th), 9th in KDA, and 6th in CS per min. So far the majority of mid laners are better than him and 90% of them aren't on as good a team.
Faker is a great player, but don't believe the hype.
iamleburk1 votesOk so first of all, you said he had the most deaths, and both benghi and Marin had more deaths, so that was just flat out wrong. Now those stats dont look too good, but its not taking into account the fact that his team isn't mid focused anymore; its like FNC in that it has 3 possible carries. It just so happens that using mid to carry isn't as viable in this meta, but we know for a fact that mid can carry if it wanted to.
But a stat i would love for you to find is the percent gold of the team vs damage done to champions. In OGN, he was getting literally the least percent of any mid in the league, yet still was third in damage dealt to champions. But i was asking for specific mids who are better than Faker. Who would you pick? Maybe Bjerg for solokilling the the Korean Fenix? Incarnation for know how to use Azir? Xpeke for landing dat ori ult?
Actually you could make an argument for Xpeke, he has been having a massive effect in his games, and at his peak i think they might actually be on the same level. Like mechanically Faker would still come out on top but in terms of carry potential I think its almost equal. Then again, I've always been a huge FNC fan, so i have a lot of bias on that one.
Lugg1 votesWell duh, Faker didn't play in two of the games and they now passed him.
xPeke sure hasn't had a problem carrying mid this Worlds. And of course that isn't the first time it has happened.
As for who might be better than Faker. I think Bjerg is better, he usually out CS's every opponent and has amazing mechanics and outplays. I so want to see him go head to head with Faker. Xpeke is playing like the old Xpeke right now. He has the occasional bad game, but when he's on, he can beat anyone. Dade falls in the same category but is even more streaky. Cool seems to have always gone even with Faker. Incarnation has looked amazing this Worlds. I don't think any mid looks forward to facing him now. Even though he isn't playing now, Froggen was probably every bit as good as Faker during his prime. Febiven vs Faker would be awesome to watch.
iamleburk1 votesAw cmon man why you got to say that about bjerg? i like him, i dont want to trash him, but there is no way you can walk away saying something as stupid as that. Like i understand pawn, he has a team that makes him look good, but Bjerg? Seriously? He is great for his region, but we are talking about world-class mids right now. You would be hard pressed to convince me he is a top 5 mid in the west, let alone in the world. He got solokilled by PowerofEvil 4 times across 2 games. Btw, at the time, he was an EU challenger mid who barely made it into the LCS completely styling on this so-called "best player in the west". Xpeke was outfarming him in spite of being killed twice by ganks today. He blindpicked Anivia ffs, no one outside NA is afraid of him, because outside of NA he rarely performs. And if you are counting his solokill on Nagne, thats like counting a solokill on Balls lmao. Nagne is the same guys Faker was playing mid Riven against in the OGN finals, solokilled, then said "yea faker mid isn't good." And bjergsen has said himself before that he isn't as good as faker, so i guess you know more than he does.
And we saw him go head to head with faker at MSI. He picked a counter matchup, Ziggs into Cassio, so there wasn't really any solokill potential unfortunately. I too would like to see a Faker vs Bjerg best of series; it would clear up these delusions of "well i know Bjerg isn't great into challenger mids but i think he'll do great into faker!!!"
Xpeke, if he is on top, can be faker level carry. However, it isn't a deffinite thing for him. Against TSM today, he let Soaz carry, because he can do that. Im a huge FNC fan, so i probably overrate both febi and Xpeke, but even i dont think either are better than faker. I do think Febi is also underrated because, like faker, he knows how to let others on his team carry.
Wait are talking all time right now? Otherwise i have no idea why you would include Dade Froggen or Cool. Regardless, Faker has been much more consistent than Cool and Dade, and he has a wider champion pool than Froggen.
Oh and febi or xpeke vs faker is my dream finals. I dont think it would happen, but i got faith man. Febi vs Xpeke would be great right now either. I wouldnt know who to root for in either of those matches, but it would be worth it to see some great games. And honestly, Febiven is a bit new to the scene, he is still developing which is why i dont think he is top 5 right now (or maybe i would put him 5th), but i think he will eventually become one of the best mids in the world.
Lugg1 voteshttp://elohell.net/public/comments/original/6f1ad85e4ced5f1e58193b66dd180ead.png
Bjerg haters gonna hate. Saying he isn't one of the top 5 in the west is just laughable. I guess you didn't watch IEM at the start of the season.
Anyway, I just want to see Faker vs the best mids in the world. It would be great.
iamleburk1 votesI think Marin going toe to toe with Ssumday, Smeb, and recently AmazingJ makes him better than Ziv. I agree that Ziv is underrated, but not underrated enough that I would put him on a level with Marin. Also, OG are used to chaos style teams like Roccat and UOL, and a team like SKT doesn't let rotations be disrupted. Watch what happened when a team like UOL hit a team like C9, it was at an IEM. UOL completely crumbled; Chaos style works if you're individual players are better or if the enemy team gets tilted by it, but if you're rotations are better than the enemy and you continue to punish the over aggression then you win the game. I dont see AHQ doing well, but I am expecting good things from FW.
Can you specifically point out which plays? because usually his "overaggression" is "punished" by a stupid amount of CC and ultimates, which is why Marin and Bang get to clean up the fight afterwards.
I too have faith restored in FNC, but i dont know if they are good enough to challenge EDG. I know they are good, but that was a really unlucky draw for them. If FNC can beat EDG, i expect them to make it to the finals. Also i really want to see OG vs SKT semifinals, with OG back in form from their dodgy week 2.
Lugg1 votesI agree that Marin is better. However, I don't think he is so much better than Ziv that he can take him for granted. If Marin underestimates him, he will get punished for it.
I like how you state SKT doesn't let their rotations get disrupted. That is true except for one thing that has happened a few times this season. SKT usually does a rotation to an objectives where they have a numbers advantage. Whether they are doing a tower dive, gank, etc. Champions with globals like TF, Shen, GP, etc. really screw that up. Since it ruins the advantage they worked to get. I'm still amazed other teams aren't using that to their advantage more.
As for Faker plays, the one I remember was a 2v1 where he and Bengi were baited into a bush beside the river where 2 people were waiting to counter gank. There was no vision in that area and Bengi dropped a ward in the bush as they were chasing to expose them. Instead of retreating, Faker dove right in and got blown up. I remember thinking "WTF is he doing". There were a couple other plays where he also went ham and got killed as well.
You might be correct that Faker is drawing the focus to get the CCs down so the rest of his team can clean up.
FNC vs EDG should decide that half of the bracket. I can't wait to see it.
iamleburk1 votesYea I was just pointing out i dont think Ziv will be winning that lane without some serious gank pressure or a counter pick. I dont think the skill difference is that big, but it's big enough to win the lane. Also, SKT is REALLY good at funneling a shit load of gold into Marin. I think he has the highest gold share of any top laner in the tournament. So regardless of whether Ziv can hold is own, Marin will be ahead.
The thing about SKT and globals is the same as FNC and shitty tower dives. Once all the analysts started calling them out for it, other teams specifically built comps to bait out those misplays they are known to make and they were ready for it. Why do you think Pawn took TF in their last match? But yea their rotations have been disrupted... by stronger rotations. The teams that did well against them are KT and CJ. Chaos wouldn't work against them.
OG on the other hand, it might work. Idk, I'm a little worried for them. And EDG is a huge question mark for me. Are they still slumping? If the EDG vs FNC matchup is close enough i might just have to give the semi final to KT (assuming they win vs KOO, which i think they will).
That said, i really want to see KT vs FNC and OG vs SKT. KR vs EU games always get me hyped af, such high level play it is truly beautiful to watch. That is of course if the EU teams actually show up, but they usually do for worlds (and always seem to look so much better than in the LCS for some reason)
Lugg1 votesIf Ziv can come close to going even with Marin, that will at least give AHQ a chance in the series. If he doesn't, SKT should steamroll them.
I do think that chaos affects Korean teams more than can be expected since they are used to a very orderly type of play in their region. When you disrupt someone's flow, you can throw them off their game. That's why I am looking forward to the series between AHQ and SKT.
FNC vs EDG may be the best series of Worlds. There are some great matchups. I also think KT will beat KOO, but it will be close. FW vs OG should be close as well.
I just want the West to represent.
iamleburk1 votesHonestly i think AHQ's best chance is via their bot lane. Even if Ziv goes even for lane, Marin will be fed a lot more resources and turn him into a monster anyway. If you look at SKT's rotations, the point of almost all of them is farm for Marin or kills for Marin.
I dont know if FNC EDG will be the best series at worlds. If FNC show up, then i expect their match against KT and their final against SKT to be much better. Also, if you think FW will beat OG, then SKT beating AHQ will mean they are very prepared for chaotic. It won't matter if FW are better at it, because SKT have the best macro game in the world. So assuming FW beat OG, SKT will go to the final. Idek if EDG will make it to the final. KT look really strong atm, it really depends on how EDG hold up. Both their top laners are looking really bad.
iamleburk1 votesIm going to reply up here just because this formatting is getting annoying. But i just wanted to point out one more thing; Faker's champions so far have been Azir and Ryze (not counting the troll game vs BKT). SKT actually has the lowest game time of any team except BKT; they have the strongest early game behind KOO. So maybe the reason Faker doesn't look so hot is because the game is over before his champion turns online. Marin hits his power spike so hard that Faker never has to. Just a theory, I'm really hyped to see his Leblanc or maybe some Diana. I would say Ori and Ahri too but his team seems to eat shit when he plays Ori and his ahri was a little dodgy last time we saw it.
Lugg1 votesThat is a good observation. I do hope Faker actually shows up next series to provide some highlight plays.
iamleburk1 votesHoly shit this game 3 is atrocious. Kassadin was s a terrible pick, there were so many better counterpicks open, idk what the hell they were thinking. And that teleport was absolutely useless. How the hell does someone go from having a perfect game on Lulu and Ryze to being solokilled by fucking westdoor? And dont even get me started on Marin, he actually had ganks ffs, and still got dunked. Only bang played marginally well, they only won because of AHQ's shit macro game
Lugg1 votesI agree with everything you said. SKT looked pretty weak at times today.
I think that the fact they haven't faced any competition at all this Worlds is going to to really hurt them against OG. I can honestly see OG taking the first two games and putting SKT against the wall. OG shouldn't make the mistakes AHQ did.
I would LOVE to see a final of FNC vs OG.
iamleburk1 votesI think SKT is going to win it honestly. If OG play like they did against FW, they will get absolutely destroyed. Then again, if Kkoma puts faker on another TP Kassadin it might be a pretty quality shitfest. What do you think will end up worse, TP Kassadin or TP Orianna?
Although there is a good chance SKT wasn't trying as hard in the last game. My friend told me Faker was laughing during that third kill under his tower, i need to check that again but that could be a reason.
Lugg1 votesSKT probably has the easiest road to the finals of any team in the history of League. They haven't had a real challenge yet. Hopefully OG will change that.
I think Faker just took Kass in that third game for shits and giggles and to work on his mechanics with him in a real game. If they had lost, he would have gone back to his mains. Props to Westdoor though for the outplays.
Marin will have to play WAY better next series or Soaz will destroy him. Soaz looked great his last series. SKT better not take OG lightly, they won't fall for some of the things AHQ did.
iamleburk1 votesEhh SKT played better overall than OG did in their series. The game 3 was bad, and game 1 was questionable, but OG looked shaky in all of their games, even losing one. The early game in the OG vs FW was almost non-existant. AHQ on the other hand had a early game that rivaled SKT. However, their late game was just bad. FW are the opposite. OG and FW are two sides of the same coin; bad early, good late. If OG can go even before 15 minutes, i think they have a 50/50 shot at winning. The thing is, I don't see that happening outside of one thing...
Marin looked like absolute shit in this series. That guy you were calling the carry of the team over faker did nothing, and he still sucks in the most gold share on the team. Faker could not carry at all in game 1 because he was on Lulu.... Lulu fiora is supposed to be a good combo but Marin manage to mess it up everytime. Bang had to come in and run some hybrid juggertris shit because Marin was such a liability. However, one bad game and Soaz will tilt to high hell. They just have to throw him off once and he feeds for the rest of the series.
bojajina1 votesSkt will take OG lightly and still stomp them 3-0. OG is literally the 2nd worst team in quarters and got lucky by drawing FW, the worst team. Marin will demolish Soaz with one hand. What gives you ANY confidence that OG can beat SKT? OG almost lost to TSM, got rekt by both LGD and KT.
iamleburk1 votesIf Marin plays like he did yesterday, then Soaz will kill him in lane. However, if OG keeps prioritizing Anivia I see Faker absolutely destroying that lane. Bot lane is about even, late game is about even, its mid lane and early game where SKT has the biggest advantage. And the mid lane advantage can be negated in pick/ ban. I think OG can maybe take one game, but that is it.
iamleburk1 votesehh this one was alright, i also had a bet that Febiven would solokill Kuro and Smeb would solokill Huni :> But i think we can both agree that Marin did not play like he did against AHQ, he did very well, and Soaz just tilted off of the planet. But my "they can maybe take a game" was obviously completely solid, as we can see from game 1. Game 2 wasn't THAT bad from Origen, but it was a little questionable, while Game 3 was lost before it began with all that tilt.
I am also going to bet from this point that A) Smeb will kill Marin on Fiora, B) Faker will carry at least one game on Leblanc, C) Faker plays another Diana mid against Pray's Ashe( he did this in LCK finals to counter ashe, kept killing her when she couldnt do anything)
Btw im an SKT fan as well as a OG/FNC fan, so the OG vs SKT game really isn't the one im salty about
bojajina1 votesLets also just ignore that you are the biggest passive-aggressive faker/SKT hater. Don't cry when SKT sweeps the whole tournament.
Lugg1 votesHmmm, that's a strange statement to make since I have stated multiple times on the forums that Faker is probably the best player of all time. He has had an off year though. If you look at the stats, he isn't even the best mid on his own team right now! In fact, he is probably the 6th best player on his team at the moment. Of course SKT could never bench Faker, there would be riots in Korea.
I still think that EDG or FNC can beat SKT. SKT hasn't faced any real competition yet this tourney. EDG didn't play serious at all in the group stage against them.
iamleburk1 votesDid you just imply that Easyhoon> Faker? I guess you know more than Kkoma then, he must be retarded for only putting easyhoon in three times all split! He should just keep doing what he did at MSI, because that didn't lose them the tournament!
And the only stat he isn't top 5 in rn is DMG%. And that is including the mids from the group stage, otherwise he would be top 2 or 3. You cannot use Easyhoon's stats because there is only two games from him so the sample size is skewed. That is just simple statistics.
Lugg1 votesI do think Easyhoon is just as good. His numbers are only slightly behind Faker's all season despite only seeing limited games. It's a case that Faker's popularity and reputation is keeping him in the starting position. You wouldn't have ever benched Michael Jordan when he was playing, the uproar would have been insane. The same thing applies to Faker. He's the most popular player in all of Korea.
It's like I have been saying, Faker is still a great player, but it's delusional to think he has been playing at the level of previous seasons. They can start him and win because they are so strong at every position and he is still very good.
iamleburk1 votesNo, its absolutely fine to say he is playing at the same or even a better level. He didn't get worse, everyone else got better. And easyhoon is no where near as good. Did you see him at MSI? there is a reason he has barely been played since, and it isn't his popularity. Febiven is the only other mid laner at this tournament who comes close to Faker atm.
tea tìme3 votesThey're a TEAM. They don't just leave all their hopes on one player like a lot of teams do. Which is why they win most of the time, they play together and use coordination and help each other. Something that a lot of teams do NOT use and a lot of solo rank players should learn.
They're all vital points. Faker is a great player, there is no doubt about it... But they all work as great players.
