NA teams in worlds

JavelinJoe·Sep 4, 2015·1 votes·1,471 views

Personally I think that TSM will have the easier time of the 3, but C9 and CLG might make it farther. TSM has shown lack of a winning comp, whether it is in communication or picks an bans, they seem to fall short of their usual as of late. Where as CLG won the summer against TSM and C9 already has Worlds experience and a nice record for a large tournament setting. So in order of who I think will do the greatest, C9>TSM>CLG. This is my opinion, NOT A FACT. If TSM comes out great with good communication and a decent pick/ban phase plan, then they could end up ahead of C9, though this might be too big of an expectation given their recent match history in the summer split. CLG has the least recent experience of the 3 on a world stage. This is the only reason I put them last. They certainly are capable since they won the summer split. C9, to me, always has that unknown aspect. They can sometimes just surprise you with there strategies. A good thing to be able to do well.

24 Comments

DestructoDaveSep 4, 20152 votes

Honestly, I think NA teams are a bit underrated, and EU teams are overrated. I dont think either is going to make much noise this year, but I do believe that NA is sort of just scoffed at. Hell, people honestly believe some of our best players aren't even as good as people on EU teams. I see people hyping, say, the H2k ADC, Hjarman or whatever, like hes better than Dlift and Sneaky. Its honestly rediculous. Amazing was a bad jungler in NA, now a god in Eu. Bjerg is scoffed at, Incarnation is scoffed at. Its hilarious that the minute you cross the pond, you are worthless all of a sudden as an individual player. The bot lane things really confuse me, because when has reckless ever did anything but be out-performed by the likes of Sneaky. And when did someone like Niels and Hjarman ever get on Dlift or Sneaky's level? Its just a comical situation to me. IF there is one thing NA teams have, its bot lanes; outside of TSM.

I think CLG is probably NA's best hope, and C9 I think will do better than TSM. I think Fnatic is good, and EU's best hope, and honestly I think H2k and Origen are overrated as hell. They arent going to do any better than C9 or TSM, or CLG for that matter. H2k is given a pass by association, and Origen's only claim to fame is pushing Fnatic to game 5; as if that means anything. If you dont remember, UoL pushed them to game 5, people said Fnatic was crap, then they forced game 5 with Skt. Bo5's are different animals. So, I just feel people are overhyping EU's 2nd and 3rd teams, and Underrating NA's teams in general.

Again, I'm not saying any will win worlds, but dont be surprised when NA teams make as much noise as EU. It happened last year, if you remember.

Guyy FieriSep 5, 20151 votes

Just observing a trend in some of the players you mentioned that EU scoffs at. Amazing is from Europe (not sure what country tho) and Bjergsen and Incarnation are both Danish I believe. Maybe Europe just feels like any players who go to NA to play aren't good enough for EU. Not sure if that's the case but just the trend I noticed.

PoisonedTeaSep 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Just observing a trend in some of the players you mentioned that EU scoffs at. Amazing is from Europe (not sure what country tho) and Bjergsen and Incarnation are both Danish I believe. Maybe Europe just feels like any players who go to NA to play aren't good enough for EU. Not sure if that's the case but just the trend I noticed.

That is a delusion.

NA doesn't need EU players too be good.

EU doesn't send its shit players to NA because they do well there.

That being said there are patterns we can see in player development in each of these regions.

For one that EU creates better Mid lane players on average. Of course that is not all EU also creates better Top lane players then NA.

I don't if it is because of the fact that those lanes are so strong but the bot lane is weaker in EU then NA. That is the ADC's and Supports. Even some of the top players in that role for EU have been just ma(rekkles). As for NA you get Sneaky, Doublelift, Altec, and at one point Wildturtle. Then you get like Xpecial, Aphromoo, Bunny Fufu. Lamonnation. You get a number of good NA bot lanes, Where it is hard to make a good bot lane in EU.

Both regions do not make good junglers. I could not tell you which is better because both are not so good.

The reason why EU has done better then NA is because they on average have had two lanes able to play with the top regions. Rather then the one lane. Even if it is the same amount of players.

Guyy FieriSep 5, 20152 votes

I wasn't saying that EU players that move to NA aren't good enough for EU or that NA needs the EU players to succeed. All I was saying was that maybe that's why EU fans consider those EU players who move to NA to be worse than those that stay in EU. That's all.

PoisonedTeaSep 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I wasn't saying that EU players that move to NA aren't good enough for EU or that NA needs the EU players to succeed. All I was saying was that maybe that's why EU fans consider those EU players who move to NA to be worse than those that stay in EU. That's all.

Oh ya that is true. They are fans they don't think clearly. And if it is player same thing they don't think clearly often too(being optimistic is of course good for them often, but sometimes they take it to far).

foinhasSep 6, 20151 votes

i agree that EU teams are overrated, but NA teams are deffinitly not underrated. If tsm and glc play like they played in the finals, they have no chance in worlds. C9 is, in my opinion, the NA team with the best chances, mostly because of how good Hai is as a shotcaller

Ale non è maleSep 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Amazing was a bad jungler in NA, now a god in Eu. Bjerg is scoffed at, Incarnation is scoffed at.

LOL, WUT? I don't get why some NA fans got a distorted perspective about what EU fans think Nobody rate Amazing as a "god" jungler in Eu, everyone will rate him as a slighlty above average jungler, alongside the Diamondprox/Jankos7etc.., far behind the top level like Reignover/kikis/Sven Bjerg is scoffed now more in NA than EU, because in EU no one is doubting his rank among NA mid like some NA fans are doing now...if anything EU fans were downplaying the NA hype when Bjerg arrived in NA given how Bjerg was promising but not top mid in EU and was the overall level of midlaners of NA at time that was low(still there weren't fenix, XWX improving the level) Incarnation has been scoffed at ONLY by NA fans, with EU fans that were defending him quoting the lack of shotcalling as the problem, and as a matter of the fact hai replaced meteos and incarnatiON blossomed

And is ridicoulous how you praise NA supports scoffing at EU supports...while putting in the list of the best supports Xpecial that has underperformed a lot lately while leaving out Adrian that made a bad ADC like Apollo look like it was decent to good

There are fans that obviously aren't objective or make bad evaluations about the strength of the various regions, but imho, I have seen that on average it is NA fanboys that has a worse perception of Western talent overall The only role in which NA produces better players is ADC, with supports being pretty much on the same level...in the other roles it produces on average worse talent, ESPECIALLY in the jungle where NA scene is really weak and even a non jungler like Hai - with all the due respect to Hai which is a true legend in NA scene - can kick jungler main asses. That would have never happened in EU, and this is not to maginfy Eu jungler scene that is far better than NA one but is still far worse than CN/KR/maybe even LMS

PoisonedTeaSep 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=PlxgyF39,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2015-09-06T10:01:30.209+0000)

Amazing was a bad jungler in NA, now a god in Eu. Bjerg is scoffed at, Incarnation is scoffed at.

LOL, WUT? I don't get why some NA fans got a distorted perspective about what EU fans think Nobody rate Amazing as a "god" jungler in Eu, everyone will rate him as a slighlty above average jungler, alongside the Diamondprox/Jankos7etc.., far behind the top level like Reignover/kikis/Sven Bjerg is scoffed now more in NA than EU, because in EU no one is doubting his rank among NA mid like some NA fans are doing now...if anything EU fans were downplaying the NA hype when Bjerg arrived in NA given how Bjerg was promising but not top mid in EU and was the overall level of midlaners of NA at time that was low(still there weren't fenix, XWX improving the level) Incarnation has been scoffed at ONLY by NA fans, with EU fans that were defending him quoting the lack of shotcalling as the problem, and as a matter of the fact hai replaced meteos and incarnatiON blossomed

And is ridicoulous how you praise NA supports scoffing at EU supports...while putting in the list of the best supports Xpecial that has underperformed a lot lately while leaving out Adrian that made a bad ADC like Apollo look like it was decent to good

There are fans that obviously aren't objective or make bad evaluations about the strength of the various regions, but imho, I have seen that on average it is NA fanboys that has a worse perception of Western talent overall The only role in which NA produces better players is ADC, with supports being pretty much on the same level...in the other roles it produces on average worse talent, ESPECIALLY in the jungle where NA scene is really weak and even a non jungler like Hai - with all the due respect to Hai which is a true legend in NA scene - can kick jungler main asses. That would have never happened in EU, and this is not to maginfy Eu jungler scene that is far better than NA one but is still far worse than CN/KR/maybe even LMS

EU supports need to stop sucking.

Ok you got yellowstar But you don't compare the best play in the league as the average

We don't compare Hai shotcalling is what NA shotcalling is.

Also EU junglers are no better then NA junglers.

Do you remember when EU supports came to NA and the ending as being on teams in the bottom of the league because I do.

Ale non è maleSep 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

EU supports need to stop sucking.

Ok you got yellowstar But you don't compare the best play in the league as the average

We don't compare Hai shotcalling is what NA shotcalling is.

Also EU junglers are no better then NA junglers.

Do you remember when EU supports came to NA and the ending as being on teams in the bottom of the league because I do.

LOL That's EXACTLY what I was referring to in my post Where are all these excellent NA supports? Because, behind Lustboy which didn't even grew in NA, where are all these supports that are far better than Eu counterpart? Do you think that GoSu Pepper, Mithy, Hylissang, vandeR, KaSing are that inferior to Bunny Fufu, Xpecial, Aphro, LemonNation, Adrian? I could give a pass to lemon because he proved himself at world level in the past - even though I think he is slightly declining -, but I think the level is pretty much on par, what makes NA bot lanes better is ADC quality and depth over Eu

EU junglers are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR better than NA jungler that is not even close. Jungler is the only role where NA is really behind from the rest of the world, imho, and this became evident this season when farming, the only thing where NA junglers are top notch, became less important and strategic decision became more important. Meteos is a great mechanical jungler, but in the entire S5 he showed how is past strength was mainly farming and get an advantage to gank lanes, once farming gap got leveled, he shown his clear weaknesses Are you really comparing Reignover, Kikis, Sven, Amazing, diamond, Jankos - and i'm not even mentioning shook, loulex that i'm sure wouldn't be too bad in NA - with Rush, IWD, XSmithie, Santorin, Helios, Move? With a drop in level far bigger than in Eu as you go down the list and with 4 of 6 junglers which did not grow in NA...even adding Meteos to the list, not a good scenario for Na scene

PoisonedTeaSep 5, 20152 votes

I think it all luck really.

CLG could get the best draw But are unlikely too.

They could get H2K, Wildcard and LMS 2nd team. If they get H2K they get a wildcard just like that. They are more likely to get a Korea 2 or 3, China 2 or 3, now if can get H2K or LMS 2 with wildcard still be an ok draw. (Btw H2K and the LMS teams can still beat CLG i would think). Btw if CLG does not get H2K they have a good chance to get Origin there group 1 and 3. With odds like that their is a higher chance they get a worst draw then TSM.

TSM has the best chance of having a wildcard team in there group. The of course will have one super powerful opponent to face an possible a second one. But looking at the odds in the draw TSM has the highest chance to get the best group in the draw. Not by much and they can't possible get a group as good as CLG could get.

C9 can not get a wildcard so ya they will have a hard group.

rjdude31Sep 5, 20152 votes

This was honestly one of the stupidest things I've ever read. CLG clearly has the best shot at getting worlds while tsm looks awful. If you think anyone but clg will do the best your are simply delusional.

JavelinJoeSep 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This was honestly one of the stupidest things I've ever read. CLG clearly has the best shot at getting worlds while tsm looks awful. If you think anyone but clg will do the best your are simply delusional.

You are a die hard CLG fan aren't you. I was just looking at past experience and overall potential to preform against eastern teams and Europe. Yes CLG won NA summer, but they have yet to go to worlds recently unlike TSM and C9.

Guyy FieriSep 5, 20152 votes

I agree with this. TSM has already been to worlds four times I believe. CLG has never been there. TSM has an edge simply because the allure of worlds is now gone and they won't be as overwhelmed by the situation.

Now, with that being said, it looks as if worlds might be decided through Top lane priority. Many of the big worlds changes include the juggernaut rework and, of course, GP is huge right now. CLG is better at playing Top priority than TSM so if it comes down to that, CLG could surprise a bunch of people.

JavelinJoeSep 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I agree with this. TSM has already been to worlds four times I believe. CLG has never been there. TSM has an edge simply because the allure of worlds is now gone and they won't be as overwhelmed by the situation.

Now, with that being said, it looks as if worlds might be decided through Top lane priority. Many of the big worlds changes include the juggernaut rework and, of course, GP is huge right now. CLG is better at playing Top priority than TSM so if it comes down to that, CLG could surprise a bunch of people.

Very true, CLG focus there strategies to include top as a carry potential, where TSM has just started to do that again. Though both teams have had ample time to practice any plans they might have for worlds.

TheSequelsRBadSep 4, 20151 votes

My heart is saying C9, but my mind has to say CLG. CLG has the first seed, and looked like they were playing well, and are NA's best hope for a respectable showing. I hope C9 and TSM will show up though. So I would say CLG>C9>TSM. Though C9 and TSM are most likely pretty even right now.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 4, 20151 votes

CLG statistically has the best chance, as they have no chance to play FNC or SKT, while either C9 or TSM definitely does. CLG just has to hope not to get ahq or EDG and they might get an inside track to Top 4.

Angry MonsterSep 4, 20151 votes

So i think C9 has a chance this year to get out of groups; unless they get put in a group of death situation. I think that C9 has shown that they can dig deep and over come. Honestly the number 2 spot in every group going to be up for grabs. The top team in each region were just so far ahead of the rest of the pack (minus NA)

ShadyWolfeSep 4, 20151 votes

CLG is the best out of the three right now. They have perfect synergy, been 3-0ing the top NA teams as of late, and are great at comebacks. C9 is looking like a weaker CLG at the moment but I'm glad they are getting back in their groove. TSM looks weaker than both C9 and CLG. TSM's stategies revolve too much around feeding Bjergsen which just sets them up for defeat. Their team work is just not on par with C9 and no where neat CLG. I expect TSM to do the worst if they keep going on with the Bjergsen only strategy.

JavelinJoeSep 4, 20151 votes

Fully agree with what you said about TSM. They tried with Dyrus on Olaf in the quarter finals and it worked very well. But in the finals they reverted. I mean WTF. Why fix what isnt broken. I am all for TSM and them doing their solo mid ways, but then they cant just have solo mid. Turtle needs to stop with the hybrid casters and stick to the physical attackers if Bjergsen is going full AP mage. I love Santorin on engage type junglers like Nidalee . But he isn't pulling any ganks with Gragas or RekSai to help the lanes. If both Santorin and LustBoy go disengage based champions, then they seem forced to lose the game due to always having to run. Now I know the meta has changed since spring, but they didn't change for the meta, they changed how they played, which did not work.

Guyy FieriSep 5, 20151 votes

LOL sorry...just saw that you pretty much posted the exact same thing I did but only said it better :/

Guyy FieriSep 5, 20152 votes

I agree. TSM really needs to be able to funnel priority into Dyrus in order to do well. They showed that they can do that in their series against Gravity but didn't do that like, at all for the rest of playoffs. They are lucky that TL was not playing to their full potential and was really doing some questionable things in pick/ban...(cough cough...twitch). Zion was the reason CLG beat TSM and Zion will be the reason CLG does better than TSM at worlds unless TSM can get Dyrus going.

JelubiSep 5, 20151 votes

This is the year where TSM isnt leading the pack into worlds and everyone can finally see what would happen if someone besides TSM was representing NA at worlds. As a TSM fan I can say it is a fact that CLG look the strongest at the moment and that they deserved that win in the finals. But at the end of the day I'm sticking behind TSM. They are not the most cunning team, they fall behind early, they in with teamwork at the very end, your typical main character syndrome team and that is why they have the most fans.

I think CLG will do decent/respectable at worlds, and then they will fall. I dont have much hope for C9 unless they switch to the original C9 line up which will not happen. TSM is the only team there that is a gamble. They could get creamed and thats fine cause they are historically the Kings of NA based on them always finishing near the top and they are basically the face of NA. But then theres that slight chance that they start doing well, that very slight chance that CLG fans know CLG does not have because that is not how CLG rolls.

TSM is the team to back, you say Korea you think SKT, you say Europe you think Fnatic, you say NA you think TSM its a fact these are the teams people want to see win.

And yes I know for a fact CLG is more cunning, more strategic, and based on players they look the toughest in NA since Spring. And C9 looked the toughest back with their original line up.

JavelinJoeSep 5, 20151 votes

Idk about toughest in the spring since TSM won the Spring Split pretty hard, but defiantly in the Summer Split when they won. TS has the capability, but maybe not the mindset as of late to win. So CLG does look promising except that this is there first worlds where as TSM and C9 aren't new to worlds.