You heard him, "build the Sightstone first"

JavelinJoe·Oct 3, 2016·53 votes·3,158 views

Go a carry support if you want but build the Sightstone first.

86 Comments

BigBellBruteOct 3, 201629 votes

Naaa. Let the carry support carry. The AD support can ward.

OrangesOct 3, 201627 votes

Cant carry unless I build full dmg. Why get a sighstone for 800 when i can get 2 dorans rings Kappa

EndlessSorcererOct 3, 201618 votes

item 2303 item 2302 item 2301

Build (and appropriately use) one of these and I don't particularly care what else you build.

AuraCreedOct 3, 20168 votes

item 2045 don't forget this one.

sheldonbunnyOct 3, 20163 votes

{quoted}

don't forget this one.

Still prefer item 2303 item 2302 item 2301 instead.

ViciousSummonerOct 3, 201612 votes

Personally hate those items. You lose the amazing actives that each individual item provides. Shield on item 3401 , free face checking with item 3092 , and a free Sivir ult with item 3069 . Also can't forget item 2045 which lowers the CDR of item actives by 20%.

sheldonbunnyOct 3, 201618 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lego Steve,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=IP3QEQtf,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-03T05:45:15.109+0000)

Personally hate those items. You lose the amazing actives that each individual item provides. Shield on , free face checking with , and a free ult with . Also can't forget which lowers the CDR of item actives by 20%.

Understandable. I just find them slot inefficient. Best part of having choices, we all can pick what we like.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

DraqoneOct 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Understandable. I just find them slot inefficient. Best part of having choices, we all can pick what we like.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Item slot efficiency is honestly the last thing you have to worry about as support...

SPOILERS!

in the FW vs C9 game the supports got their full build 65 minutes in.

OleandervineOct 3, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Item slot efficiency is honestly the last thing you have to worry about as support...

SPOILERS!

in the FW vs C9 game the supports got their full build 65 minutes in.

That game was the most absolute passive thing I've seen. It was about as exciting as watching golf, and all the rest of the ranked games aren't much better. That being said, everyone else who plays the game aren't in LCS/Worlds level teams and builds tend to operate much differently. Many games have I managed to get a full build on a support without hitting even the 50 min mark. It may be all fine and dandy to say pro level players don't get full builds until 60min in, but they also intentionally starve the supports so that the ADC can get more XP, and unlike most all else, they have a reliable team to rely on.

EndlessSorcererOct 3, 20161 votes

Item efficiency matters significantly more when you have less gold available.

While purchasing a Sightstone upgrade might mean I don't have one of those actives, it does provide four wards and let me rush other support items. Having Locket of the Iron Solari or Frozen Heart can be massive for mid-game teamfights.

Edit: Missed the "slot" efficiency. Whoops.

RoranaOct 4, 20161 votes

honestly only think the blue one is worth getting over ruby, mainly cause talisman and targons are really good

LordGeovanniOct 4, 20161 votes

slot efficentcy is also by combineing the tiems you get to save 1600 gold and funnel it into a power item earlier.

MokkunOct 3, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lego Steve,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=IP3QEQtf,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-03T05:45:15.109+0000)

Personally hate those items. You lose the amazing actives that each individual item provides. Shield on , free face checking with , and a free ult with . Also can't forget which lowers the CDR of item actives by 20%.

It's situational. You build what is appropriate to the game you are in.

But you still build sightstone, and you still get the basic level of sighstone before you even contemplate finishing other items.

OdinakosOct 3, 20161 votes

Eyes are mostly build to fasten the next items while having a 4 ward SS and income item.

Face of the mountains shield is nothing compared to delaying locket. Furthermore due to support income is limited, tank supports cant simply delay their tank/support items or else will go splat even faster/wont fullfil the role of frontline. The oppotunity cost of FotM is very high to build it.

Also carry supports are better with Eye since they need items. I cringe at every zyra building FQC because she needs her pen items fast to do ridiculous amount of damage. Really only around 10% of the games i have playeed/encountered Zyra, FQC was better choise than Eye. For other supports it is debatable thought, since it varies according to team comp, champion etc.

Talisman has the most OP active in the game. There is no reason to not get it (well support karma with sivir but why not spellthiefs?). There are cases of supports switching to talisman while starting with one of the other two lines.

Samflash3Oct 3, 20162 votes

Sorry I don't understand the first part. Should we rush Locket with Targons eye item or get face of the mountain + Sightstone?

LordGeovanniOct 4, 20161 votes

Has cdr item 2301 . Has cdr item 2302 . Cnt ahve cdr because it had more health than the others almost like the health item wasn't built to go into it. item 2303 Or else this would be my goto sight stone now i just build. item 2045 and a bunch of subpar actives that gets coutnered by any team smart enough to move together to kill the zzrots portal that would other wise destory your tower

Yxgl222HaXOct 3, 20168 votes

Nah man gatta have that lux ludens/morello first items then ill consider it... like idk mabye after a death cap void staff and rylias i might pick it up instead of boots as a pity item afterthought. Who needs wards when you are a challanjour smurf

Handy Sandy Oct 3, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed or Feed,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=IP3QEQtf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-03T02:26:44.627+0000)

Nah man gatta have that lux ludens/morello first items then ill consider it... like idk mabye after a death cap void staff and rylias i might pick it up instead of boots as a pity item afterthought. Who needs wards when you are a challanjour smurf

ikr while we're at it lemme just "borrow" some kills from my adc :DDD

JDB8eoX8x0Oct 3, 20166 votes

Thing is, I don't buy Sightstone if we're consistenly under our turret. For what purpose? To put pretty wards under my turret that barely defends me anyway nowadays? I don't think it's a mandatory thing for anyone to buy Sightstone first. It solely depends on the situation you're in, and I won't put my gold on Sightstone if I can get more healing + shield strength + mana regen + 10% CDR on Janna/Soraka/Zilean. Generally speaking, I think it also depends on the support you play. If you're a tank, it's probably not even important to you when you'll build Sightstone. You're a tank, you get health from that item, you're fine. But a healer/buffer/damage dealer? It ain't that simple for us.

RintamOct 3, 20161 votes

You can build it to avoid being invaded or dove.

JDB8eoX8x0Oct 3, 20163 votes

We can't avoid getting destroyed under our turret. I already place my normal wards in the tri bush so it doesn't happen, but most junglers nowadays have an annoying cc chain and slows that only punish us if we go too far away from our turret. As for invasion, not really as helpful as the jungler showing presence and smiting wolves. I prefer actual strength over utility when we're too far behind, else nothing changes. we'll get harrassed hard otherwise, that's how most of my lanes went when I stuck to support items with a disadvantage.

Secret BallerOct 5, 20161 votes

Sure you can, if you're playing appropriately under your turret. Actually, if you're losing that badly to where you can't even come out from under your turret that's when the sightstone is even more important. You don't need combat stats if your plan is to just sit back, defend, and farm under the turret. You need vision to protect you from turret dives/ganks and open up the potential for a teleport gank or counter gank.

ZT XperimentorOct 3, 20163 votes

I'd have to agree with dusk on this one; what's the point of buying wards when you can't even roam outside of your own turret? The enemy will still dive you regardless if you see them or not. And often the trinket is plenty when you're only warding one area.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 3, 20165 votes

or pick Leona build item 2049 and proceed to go ham

AuraCreedOct 3, 20161 votes

I only ever go for sightstone as a first item on Leo if we're doing mediocre or losing lane - if I go ham and we do super well I'm getting my mobas and bringing back 3 more pots. I'll buy the Ruby Crystal if I have enough gold in between and ditto with a vision.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 3, 20161 votes

wrong... build item 2049 take summoner 14 go 12-0-18 mastery and go ham

AuraCreedOct 3, 20164 votes

I take Exhaust as insurance for ADCs who underestimate their damage, to save my ADC if stun isn't up, to win in lane all ins or for jungle ganks - IMO the defensive AND aggressive power it gives is better then ignite on her for most situations, especially because it gives her some use outside of being a single target lock down machine.

...that and I almost always forget to use ignite when I try it.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 3, 20161 votes

just as a thought i have played leo forever .... when you take ignite on her is to provide early game kill pressure and to snowball the lane... how i do it most of the time is ill hard engage with her combo like E +Q once and get them to take some damage just enough to know the next time my CDs are up ill go E ignite W Q and with having her passive and the adc following up and having the 12 points in the 1st tree being sorcery +2% damage on abilities , exposed weakness ( ally does 3% more damage ) natural talent for the bonus early stats ad/ap to help damage early and the oppressor mastery for +2.5% damage to targets that are CC of any kind.

OdinakosOct 3, 20162 votes

Really depends on playstyle. Both are viable. I prefer exhaust more as a safety net. But i understand the value of ignite.

PS: What about thunderlords? Have you tried it?

Avios1Oct 3, 20161 votes

Why not both Exhuast and Ignite? :3

OdinakosOct 3, 20163 votes

With thuderlords and first item spellthiefs. Yoleona here i come!

On a serious note, Flash helps you engage more than those two, also helps you flash out after an engage since you will take heat. You will both secure and deny more kills by having flash.

LauchmelderOct 4, 20161 votes

You'd have a hard time engaging a team with a Thresh support (unless he's bad)

Colgate MinuetteOct 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=IP3QEQtf,comment-id=00040000000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2016-10-04T13:00:41.715+0000)

You'd have a hard time engaging a team with a Thresh support (unless he's bad)

I don't even remember my Thresh build it's been so long since I played him as a "main" (probably season 4)

I think it was something like:

item 3069 item 2045 item 3190 item 3143 item 3083

With these items to buy BEFORE warmogs depending on damage: item 3102 item 3065 item 3068

The actual build order goes like this:

item 3096 item 2049 item 3069 item 3190 item 3143 item 3068 item 3102 item 3083

LauchmelderOct 4, 20161 votes

My full build usually looks like this:

if I upgrade to Talisman (in this order in my inventory moving from 1-7):

item 3069 item 2045 item 3190 item 3364 item 3143 item 3117

The last item slot available is usually used to either buy a rare Warmogs/ZZ'Rot/Spirit Visage or a Banner of Command (in that case I'd replace item 3190 with item 3222 )

But it's fairly situational depending on what the team needs and which enemy is fed.

Edit:// Items without an active or items with actives I don't need in a teamfight (like ZZ'Rot and Banner) are always set to 7 as I can't yet handle a 6th active in a teamfight. 5 is no problem though.

LordGeovanniOct 4, 20162 votes

I think you mean ADC's who Overestimate thier damage.

Colgate MinuetteOct 3, 20163 votes

As someone who has (almost) 2,000 games on support let me just say something about sightstone an mage supports:

When playing a tank support:

Leona Braum Blitzcrank Nautilus

Use these items:

item 3401 item 2045

When playing a mage support:

Sona Annie Lux Zilean Xerath

Use this item:

item 2301

Personally, my Sona build (And some people might hate me for this but 60% ranked winrate over 90+ games says piss off)

item 2301 item 3504 item 3100 item 3285 item 3089

And I decide about the last item in game sometimes its item 3135 or item 3157 or stuff like that.

EDIT:

For stuff like Lux support its:

Lux item 2301 item 3165 item 3285 item 3157 item 3089 item 3135

And for Zilean support its:

Zilean item 2301 item 3165 item 3285 item 3089 item 3135 item 3151 (OR) item 3157

SukishooOct 3, 20162 votes

Then you lose out on the greatest active item 3092

CasterGilgameshOct 3, 20163 votes

That active is ok but it's just sorta meh too many times if your lux you can just bind them burst the enemy

Colgate MinuetteOct 3, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Then you lose out on the greatest active

I don't really find much use for it honestly. I (I'm not sure if I do it as much anymore) but I used to have an incredibly high ward average per game so vision is nothing troublesome for me. And Locking down champions in lane isn't really hard for me either.

If I was having problems catching people with these champions I would use this item.

But Lux has an AOE slow, and a double snare.

Zilean has a 99% speed boost and slow (which he can use twice in 2 seconds)

And I play 45% CDR Sona which means my E is up all the time so moving fast is not difficult.

Samflash3Oct 3, 20164 votes

You don't need boots as Zilean? Teach me.

Colgate MinuetteOct 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You don't need boots as Zilean? Teach me.

You'll notice I'm missing boots on all 3 builds I provided.

Generally speaking I spend a lot of time thinking about the best way to move around the map. If I'm ganking a lane I think about the best way to cut them off the exact route I would need to take to keep up with their speed. If I'm running away I need to think about outsmarting instead of outrunning.

I've never had a problem not including boots in my build. The only reason I include boots on some champions (zed for example) are either because I want to follow the build order that most people do. (because I'm too shit to make my own just yet) or because I want extra CDR but am playing a tank/non AP champ (so like Leona for example. I might get BOL on her early if I really want to be hyper aggressive in lane. But that's extremely rare.

For those curious my build for Leona is:

Leona item 3401 item 2045 item 3800 item 3083 item 3143 item 3102

Usually this is the order I buy things in:

item 3302 item 3097 item 2049 item 3401 item 2045 item 3800 item 3083 item 3143 item 3102

Samflash3Oct 4, 20161 votes

I'd probably use the same Sons build for lux. And rush aether wisp if I needed movement since it builds from tome.

The Zilean one is a bit scary. Is liandrys great on him? Seeing as his slow doesn't do damage, and his Q is delayed. Plus, lack of movement speed to land ults is hard to go with. I suspect Rylai may work much better. Imagine AoE Teemonshrooms. Could actually be more useful than early Ludens but that is debatable. Maybe then I'd liandrys lol.

Was thinking of going the resolve tree on him. With focus on summoner spell reduction and Ionian boots, i could take bond of stone and either heal (yup, heal - 180cd), Ignite, or exhaust.

But this is all theoretical. Thanks for the idea on Lux using the Sona build. Lichbane, stronger shields was something I was trying to fit into lux.

Colgate MinuetteOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But this is all theoretical. Thanks for the idea on Lux using the Sona build. Lichbane, stronger shields was something I was trying to fit into lux.

Then you should try stacking the windspeakers blessing and the one mastery thing in the tank tree (not sure what its called. I'm pretty sure I spelt windspeakers wrong too)

These should both stack the power of her shield.

But honestly I don't think her shield is powerful enough to justify wasting an item and some mastieries (Also not sure if the tank tree mastery will even work)

This all being said. About sightstone.

I should have mentioned this when I highlighted my earlier build (Leona)

Leona item 3401 item 2045 item 3800 item 3083 item 3102 item 3143

But if I find I've been ganked me then 2 times before I finish FOTM I always just rush the sightstone instead. It's a reactionary purchse not an actionary purchase if I need vision I buy sightstone instead. But usually the ward trinkies will do that for me.

CarameI FrappeOct 3, 20163 votes

Lucian : Leona, build a Sightstone first. We need vision.

Leona : ... But, what about item 3302 for the heals and shared gold?

Lucian : Freaken build the Sightstone. I don't want to get ganked.

**5 minutes of laning phase, facing against a Caitlyn & Zyra **

Lucian : Why are you so squishy Leona?! We're losing lane because of you!

Leona : ... sigh

In all seriousness, I don't care what anyone says. A Diamond player, a Worlds player- doesn't matter ... cannot convince me to build a item 2045 first. As a support main, I always keep my eyes on the map and ward around the river / deep in jungle to see their Jungler before laning. If we die to a gank, it's because we either pushed too far in lane or lacked vision when we get into a fight with the bot duo. As Leona , I want to rush item 2303 so I can be done with what every support needs and actually become the tank for my team. If I end up feeding their ADC or die often, what's the item 2045 going to do for me anyways? Yeah it's important for sure, but each champion as a support character serves a particular purpose ...

Force a Soraka to get Sightstone over item 3301 & item 1004 and you'll be wondering why she can't help you survive lane with good sustain. Better yet, I also main Nami and I absolutely need item 3303 so i can get 25% mana reg, my extra income of gold, and extra gold when I poke enemies (which Nami is constantly doing with her W). So yeah, no offense to anyone who wants vision first but most supports need their core items over the Sightstone. Besides, you guys also have wards too ... please don't rely mainly on Supports for all the warding since we can only drop so many, which is risky to do by the way.

JavelinJoeOct 3, 20162 votes

cannot convince me to build a first

ok, im sure you have a reason

If we die to a gank, it's because we either pushed too far in lane or lacked vision when we get into a fight with the bot duo

wait a minute...

or lacked vision

... well i wonder what item you could have to fix that?

CarameI FrappeOct 4, 20162 votes

Ah, sorry ... I didn't get my point across like I wanted it to. What i'm trying to say is, if we do things without vision or doing so before I get a Sightstone, we do risk dying and it'll be our fault. No matter when you get it, it's a dangerous game when you take action without knowing when the enemy Jungler is at. With this in mind, I always play safe and watch the map until I get a Sightstone. Does that clear things up?

AmetDeCryptOct 3, 20162 votes

get it when it's prudent and the 2 trinkets you have in the lane cease to be enough when you are out of laning... seriously, other lanes only have one, and mid has two sides to ward if they want to be totally safe. it's not the end of the world if I get a few other mini items out to help my laning where I'm strongest as support and 150 hp sure isn't gonna do it at that point in the game.

OdinakosOct 3, 20163 votes

That is not the case. Extra wards are always useful. You can have the river and side brush warded. Help your midlaner so he can be safe both sides. Deep warding if your jungler can invade. The uses of extra wards are limitless. Ofc you can delay for some reasons, but getting SS after T1-2 income item is a great rule of thump.

VerdadeOct 3, 20161 votes

Noone at high gold and lower is able to utilize these wards.

OdinakosOct 3, 20162 votes

Not what i have experienced. They cant utilize them at their full potential, thats true, but they are gonna utilize them to a satisfying degree. I am willing to take the chance that they are gonna be helpful.