Reginald: [TSM] are clear favorites this year.

Electro522·Jan 21, 2017·11 votes·1,228 views

First series is an 0-2 loss, with the second game being a near stomp.

I know its only the first series, but TSM will need to step it up to be "clear favorites".

20 Comments

JavelinJoeJan 21, 20172 votes

They usually have shaky starts especially in the spring splits. If you remember, they use to be know as the team to always lose the first game but win the series. But it was obvious they did not have as full of a grasp on the new pick/bans and the meta strengths/weaknesses as C9 did.

TSM had 2 poor jungle picks since they chose to go the more farm first gank later champ Rek'Sai while C9 went the overly oppressive (and imo, much needing of a damage nerf) early game powerhouse Lee Sin and Kha'Zix who scales super hard when ahead. TSM also screwed themselves in the first game by holding their ADC pick for the second half. C9 picked Ashe first, then banned the only 2 other "viable" choices Jhin and Varus. TBH I didn't even expect that one so I cant fault them too hard for that since it is a new pick/ban system.

Both teams played well though. TSM had better smites when contesting objectives (except for the one suicide dragon steal attempt). But at the same time, C9 had better overall control of the objectives because of their jungler choices.

MrHaZeYoJan 21, 20171 votes

Ezreal is still viable.

JavelinJoeJan 21, 20171 votes

Viable maybe, but he is not a utility ADC because he has no form of inherent hard CC unlike how Jhin, Varus, and Ashe do.

MrHaZeYoJan 21, 20173 votes

Ya, your right but that doesn't make him unviable.

Earl EulrichJan 21, 20171 votes

and he´s still very high up in the tiers in Korea, while China has Caitlyn near pick/ban despite not offering much utility - in proplay you still need your carry mostly to deal dmg as most botlanes know how to avoid dying to ganks unneccessarily and carries still reach all their spikes. (also just watch deft playing ez in the first game vs rox this year)

Miror BJan 21, 20172 votes

Yeah, regi isn't exactly the best source of "news" concerning what will happen with TSM-related stuff (if you're familiar with other esports, you'll know that very recently he was involved in a bit of a giant controversy in which he got rid of his CS:GO team's captain, looked heavily like the "good guy" in all of it, claimed that he'd still put forward the best team possible, only to sell the remaining 4/5ths of his team and their "spot" to misfits literally 3 weeks later).

The key word I want to emphasize in that line is "year". While he never said that his team would be the spring favorites (which if we're going off history, then his team should never really be considered that due to how bad they usually are), summer is an entirely different story as not only could they potentially have DL back (which I still think is pretty 50-50 as he's currently one of the most popular/profitable streamers right now) but they wouldn't really need to do that well to succeed. Hell, look at H2k last year (who thanks to championship points made it as a 2nd seed in europe despite many people thinking they looked more like a 4th seed in summer) and the path for TSM could be relatively easy.

EpikFeederJan 22, 20172 votes

TSM owners,players,fans, have always been unrealistic. Remember last year at worlds? "This is our best chance ever at worlds". Get stomped as usual. I hope TSM gets relegated, I think that would be funny.

Ghiggs BosonJan 21, 20171 votes

Do you want the owner of one of the most powerful NA organizations to admit openly that WildTurtle can singlehandedly ruin a worlds caliber team? Cause I don't think he'll do that

Electro522Jan 21, 20172 votes

I dont think you can blame the series solely on Turtle. Sure, he had a poor performance, but he wasn't the only one. TSM as a whole didn't have a good game. Even Bjerg did not perform as the "Faker of the West".

JavelinJoeJan 21, 20171 votes

Turtle was about 50% of their loss since he was more or less useless in game 1 with how pick/bans went. But Sven was not great also deciding to go lesser early game oppressive champions. Bjerg was not good, but it was mostly not his fault since he got many jungle ganks and had to deal with the jungler being fed as well as C9 always having FT/FB advantage and ludicrous amounts of CC and peal overall.

GeminiRuneJan 21, 20172 votes

Questionable PB, shaky decision making, periodic overaggression, and just being picked off here and there. I refuse to accept anyone who says that the game's loss was caused by more than half or a majority by any single player. That was legit team fault this series. Hauntzer had tunnel vision situations. Sven was normally late to the draw pushing him into clutch situations or no move at all. Bjerg attempted to be the playmaker whether winning or losing and often disrespected the power of his opponent(s). Turtle and Bio if anything drew themselves into equal or weaker lanes which would have needed momentum of the other players to really shine; Game 1 had a bit of light for them at least. Overall, just a shaky start but nothing but expected with the org.

JavelinJoeJan 21, 20171 votes

Overall, just a shaky start but nothing but expected with the org.

More or less sums up TSM don't you think since they also are the org who has been to every final and has won 4 of them.

GeminiRuneJan 21, 20171 votes

True fact. But still shaky start given the one match sample we have.

MrHaZeYoJan 21, 20171 votes

To be fair, Sven on Rek ganked Jensen's Syndra (got flash) before Contractz's Lee FB Berj's Kat.

JavelinJoeJan 21, 20171 votes

true, but i'd rather have a kill than a blown flash

MrHaZeYoJan 21, 20171 votes

Ideally, yes i'd rather have a kill too. In high elos tho a blown flash is important. This is a objective game, not a kill deathmatch. The point was though that Jensen was ganked 1st and survived. Contractz made Rek back then ganked Mid to get FB.

Smart KittyJan 21, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=9c5zdcEX,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-21T01:29:36.010+0000)

I dont think you can blame the series solely on Turtle. Sure, he had a poor performance, but he wasn't the only one. TSM as a whole didn't have a good game. Even Bjerg did not perform as the "Faker of the West".

Bjerg actually performed worse than turtle in that series imo.

Ale non è maleJan 21, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ghiggs Boson,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=9c5zdcEX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-21T01:25:54.639+0000)

Do you want the owner of one of the most powerful NA organizations to admit openly that WildTurtle can singlehandedly ruin a worlds caliber team? Cause I don't think he'll do that

People conveniently choose to ignore that C9 was about as good as TSM was at Worlds if not better(No, TSM wasn't unlucky with the group stage, they were just not as good as people thought them to be, they had ups and downs and had more downs than ups, heck I'd say no ups except for the win vs SSG) , and they have upgraded jungle, so C9 is the better team right now

Ghiggs BosonJan 21, 20171 votes

That wasn't at all my point.. I was saying that Regi isn't going to downplay his team, that hurts their confidence and they're sponsors. And in no way do I agree that TSM is a favorite. Learn to read man

Ale non è maleJan 21, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ghiggs Boson,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=9c5zdcEX,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-21T18:35:40.444+0000)

That wasn't at all my point.. I was saying that Regi isn't going to downplay his team, that hurts their confidence and they're sponsors. And in no way do I agree that TSM is a favorite. Learn to read man

I know how to read, but "Do you want the owner[...]to admit openly that WildTurtle can singlehandedly ruin a worlds caliber team?" is bullshit on multiple levels

To even argue that TSM was a worlds caliber team and now is not anymore is stupid. Wildturtle is a downgrade to Doublelift, and no one doubt that. But is not so massive of a downgrade (bullshit n.1) to completely ruin a team if they are that good (bullshit n.2) - and it is not like there are so many english speaking options around if you don't want to dump a KR speaker on a team that has no other player speaking it -

You are right, of course Regi isn't going to downplay his team, but you were also subtly hinting that TSM were really good with Double. They were not, they were around C9 level at Worlds, and C9 was mediocre as well looking at overall international level. They are almost much as a worlds caliber team as the previous one, if the level of the rest of NA remain the same overall and especially if teams at the top don't get better (and this is a thing that everyone will see only as the season progresses)