Guinsoo's Rageblade, Devourer, and Bloodrazor

RiotRiot Axes·4/20/2016, 2:42:07 AM·1 votes·134,445 views

Hi folks,

As part of the Midseason patch, we’re doing some work on a couple of items that have been problematic through the first half of the season: Guinsoo’s Rageblade and Enchantment: Devourer.

Enchantment: Devourer As of the 6.9 patch, Devourer is being removed from the game. In order to provide support to attack speed-oriented junglers, we’re replacing it with a new item:

Enchantment: Bloodrazor

  • Recipe: Jungle Item + Recurve Bow + 625 gold (2625 total gold)
  • +40% Attack Speed
  • UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks deal 3% of the target’s maximum Health in bonus physical damage (max 75 vs. monsters and minions) on hit.

Attack speed junglers break down into two different audiences, and this item is supposed to serve both. Tanky on-hit junglers like Shyvana and Warwick who want one or two non-scaling offensive items appreciate the % maximum health damage on Bloodrazor. Meanwhile, on-hit scaling offense champions like Master Yi and Kindred should be able to pair it with other attack speed items like Blade of the Ruined King plus physical damage modifiers like Youmuu’s Ghostblade or Lord Dominik’s Regards for scaling builds.

We needed to make this change because, frankly, farm jungle items weren’t having good effects on the game. Devourer and Sated Devourer both represent incremental improvements in game health over previous farm jungle items – Devourer removed the sustain and warding that allowed a farm jungler guaranteed ‘do not disturb’ farming, while Sated Devourer kicks farm junglers out of the jungle with a clear call to action. This wasn’t enough, however. The biggest problem farm jungle items create for the game is the initial 10-15 minutes, not their effects on the mid-game.

There will still be junglers who prioritize farming more than others, there will still be junglers who you rarely see ganking your lane, and there will still be junglers who defer power to later in the game, but that will be left to the kits now – the systems won’t be forcing it.

Guinsoo’s Rageblade Guinsoo’s Rageblade has a few problems on Live. We’re pretty confident that it’s not actually overpowered – it’s sufficiently situational, providing the kind of power that a certain set of champions needs without heavily bleeding over onto other champions. When it does see play on other champions (looking at you, Tristana), it’s picked for specific reasons to fill a niche, not because it is generically powerful.

That said, the item is balanced around a couple of different elements that can feel very bad – both to play as and play against. It has one of the worst build paths in the game, creating a low point in champion power immediately before you finish. This is counterbalanced by a very high power spike immediately after – it provides more power than an item usually gives for 2800 gold because it needs to offset that artificial weakness.

There are a couple other, smaller issues – because it causes an AOE on hit, it has an inappropriate interaction with Runaan’s Hurricane, hard-binding ranged Rageblade users to that item. Additionally, melee users simply don’t need to double stack on hit. Hitting 8 stacks is prohibitively too difficult for a champion like Jax to rely on, but that doesn’t mean 4 stacks is the right number.

We’re looking to smooth the item out with both a better build path and with a more appropriate gold cost for the power it gives. Without further ado:

Guinsoo’s Rageblade

  • Recipe: Blasting Wand + Recurve Bow + Pickaxe + 875 gold (3600 total gold)
  • +35 Attack Damage
  • +50 Ability Power
  • Passive: Basic attacks deal an additional 15 magic damage on hit.
  • UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks grant +8% Attack Speed, +3 Attack Damage, and +4 Ability Power for 5 seconds (stacks up to 6 times). While you have 6 stacks, gain Guinsoo’s Rage.
  • Guinsoo’s Rage: Every other basic attack will trigger on hit effects an additional time.

A quick note on the Phantom Hit passive: we’re trying that passive here because it fits the item well and is very cool - it drives different styles of builds while presenting a cool visual and a cool fantasy. We’re comfortable putting it here because the additional gating of needing to stack Rageblade removes a lot of the problematic use cases Phantom Hit caused on Devourer. For example, where Devourer makes Xin Zhao’s knockup a 2-hit combo for the rest of the game, this Rageblade makes it a 2-hit combo only if Xin has been able to basic attack for a while.

361 Comments

B0OM4/20/2016, 4:17:34 AM17 votes

Spending 875 gold to sacrifice the 25% flat attack speed from Recurve doesn't feel that great. Granted the potential attack speed with full stacks is higher, along with gaining the other increased stats and the passives, but it still doesn't seem that satisfying to give up flat stats for potential stats. I'm assuming this functionality is intended to help gate the item?

Carnicore4/20/2016, 5:38:01 AM10 votes

Since Shyvana and Master Yi were nerfed multiple times to compensate for their synergy with Sated Devourer, where do they stand now? Are they going to be okay with this Bloodrazor item instead? Or will they need direct buffs?

Linna Excel4/20/2016, 5:20:17 AM9 votes

No more wolf buddy though...

Mimy4/20/2016, 2:48:11 AM8 votes

+35 Attack Damage +50 Ability Power Passive: Basic attacks deal an additional 15 magic damage on hit. UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks grant +8% Attack Speed, +3 Attack Damage, and +4 Ability Power for 5 seconds (stacks up to 6 times). While you have 6 stacks, gain Guinsoo’s Rage. #Guinsoo’s Rage: Every other basic attack will trigger on hit effects an additional time.

THIS DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING! OMG YOU JUST PUT RAGEBLADE AND SATED TOGETEHR!

MunchCrunchLunch4/20/2016, 2:51:13 AM7 votes

item 3124 item 3124 item 3124 Vayne item 3124 item 3124 item 3124 item 3124 item 3124 item 3124 KogMaw item 3124 item 3124 item 3124

NO SERIOUSLY

SILVERBOLTS EVERY 2 HITS.

also devourer is barebones now. I'd rather go almost anything on any champion that used to build devourer

Häxel4/20/2016, 5:58:14 PM7 votes

So the Devourerwolf gets removed cause you cant stack devourer more? But he looked so nice and cute :( MAybe you could place the wolf on rageblade and he follows you everytime you have less than 6 stacks and disappear if you have the 6 stacks for guinos rage, that would be nice :D

Dessem4/20/2016, 8:53:52 AM7 votes

So completing Guinsoo's Rageblade makes you lose attack speed until you build stacks to get it back? That looks counter-intuitive to lose some stats on completing the item.

xxxDogmanxxx4/22/2016, 2:27:39 AM6 votes

So... Riot: Nerfs Xin Zhao, Jax, and Yi because of Devourer-Rageblade synergy. Replaces Devourer with inferior, more expensive item. Nerfs Rageblade very heavily cost-wise, and stat-wise. Doesn't buff any of those champions to compensate. Hmm...

More on the Guinsoo's Rageblade: You say it currently has a horrible build path, so you fix it... by giving it an even WORSE build path? It now builds out of an attack speed item, but you LOSE the attack speed from that component when you complete the item, and overall LOSE EVEN MORE attack speed from the original item?! What. The. Fuck.

TheLastBaron884/20/2016, 3:57:27 AM6 votes

So the big question this raises for me, having been around for a few seasons, is.... Why are we bringing back Bloodrazor, of all things? I thought that item was removed in Season 3 because the only balanced state for an on-hit percent max hp attack speed item was for it to be a total noobtrap? Worse, it deals physical damage instead of magic damage now, which means it is subpar for dealing with the current tank meta because of the ease with which they stack both health and armor in the same build (which I discussed at length in a post in the Gameplay forum). It seems to me that at the very least, magic damage would be more effective for the intended purpose of such an item.

Is there any way that we could get Xypherous or Statikk to weigh in on this decision? Why the seeming change of heart? Or is it just a weak cop-out, a stand in to allow attack speed junglers to have SOMETHING while a better something is worked out for the future?

duck stuff4/20/2016, 5:08:52 AM4 votes

Remember sated Vayne ? How about sated Vayne , but without smite? Want that?

No?

WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?

3TWarrior4/20/2016, 4:31:18 AM3 votes

I have a concern about the wording of the item. It states "basic attacks grant" the stacks. it does not say that there is a numeric counter (6 times) or "basic attacks against opposing champions grant"

this means that using Runaan's hurricane, a ranged champ theoretically only needs 2 auto attacks to gain the doubling effects

champions such as kayle, kindred, teemo and kogmaw can all easily abuse this with the inherent effects in their kits and their reliance on attack speed and/or on-hit effects

will you look into this so there is not a repeat of the kog maw buff/nerf cycle and instakiller kindred?(although odd because she represents death...something else to look into with the censorship thing but I suppose that would have to be answered by a representative from the nations involved)

Gigablitz4/20/2016, 4:35:58 AM2 votes

I love the new rageblade, and the fix to devourer.

However, I have one question that I sincerely hope to have addressed - what's keeping you from using zeal in a recipe to enable crit junglers (Yi, Trynd, Perhaps other melees + ADC's)?