Midseason AD Itemization Changes

RiotRiot Axes·Apr 11, 2017·1 votes·95,560 views

Hi folks,

We’ve got some tuning-level changes to AD itemization coming in Midseason. I wanted to give some context on those changes, since they’ve hit PBE today.

All changes are currently tentative and there’s a good chance you’ll see further tuning before they go live in the Midseason patch.

Armor Penetration There’s more armor penetration/shred in the system than really ought to exist - 52% armor pen is a pretty common stopping point these days, and many champions add a Black Cleaver and/or some Lethality to that. With so much armor penetration in the system, defensive items have to be tuned to be pretty crazy before they’re worth buying at all.

We’ll be reducing the overall amount of armor that can be ignored through item purchases, and putting that power into other sources like Critical Strike itemization, the Giant Slayer effect, and big AD purchases.

Life Steal Items Looking to balance out the Life Steal items against each other. Our assessment is that Blade of the Ruined King is a bit more powerful than an item should really be, so we’ll be trimming that a bit. At the same time, we don’t want to just balance it down to be equal with the other Life Steal items, which are likely weaker than they ought to be given the way the game is shifting. We’re looking to land all the items somewhere in the middle ground.

Look for a small nerf to Blade of the Ruined King and small buffs to Bloodthirster, Death’s Dance, and Ravenous Hydra (which has sadly fallen a bit behind its Titanic cousin :/ ).

Early Marksman Build Path We’re testing buffs to Zeal and Infinity Edge aimed at smoothing out the first two purchases for critical strike users. We’re targeting a reasonable 1-and-a-half item spike into a fairly strong 2 item spike. This will likely just be cost adjustments to Zeal itself and to Infinity Edge, making it easier to get to IE + Zeal as a power spike than before.

Zeal Upgrade Tuning We’re taking this opportunity to tune the four Zeal items – Runaan’s Hurricane, Phantom Dancer, Statikk Shiv, and Rapid Firecannon. The goal here will be both balancing them against each other and making their unique identities more clear and better differentiated.

On live, Runaan’s Hurricane is the best AOE damage option, has the best build path, and is often the best single target sustained damage option of the four thanks to its on hit damage. Look for a new build path more in line with the other items, plus the loss of on-hit damage in favor of a higher AD ratio on the secondary bolts - Hurricane will still be a powerful sustained AOE damage tool.

We’re currently exploring some changes to Rapid Firecannon and Statikk Shiv to sharpen their identities and to make the combination of the two more compelling – Rapid Firecannon charges Energized effects (itself, Shiv, and Warlord’s Bloodlust) faster but deals less burst damage, increasing its usefulness in long range engagements, while Statikk Shiv deals considerably increased burst damage to champions.

Phantom Dancer’s already meeting its goals pretty well, so no changes planned (except making it cost the same amount of gold as the other three.)

Executioner’s Calling Current assessment is that Executioner’s is too powerful as a lane counter to certain champions, but the passive is an important release valve against sustain-based champions later in the game. We’re exploring ways of making it more costly to access that power early in the game, either with a direct cost increase or by making it less reliable.

227 Comments

Mysticman89Apr 11, 201718 votes

I was under the impression that it was generally more efficient for most adcs to build BF sword->zeal->completed zeal item, rather than IE->zeal. Is the intent to shift that so finishing IE before your zeal item actually is optimal?

To be clear, will Runanns lose the application of all on-hit effects on its secondary bolts, or only lose the on-hit damage that current runnans applies itself (but still applying on-hit effects from other sources)? If the former, is there anything planned as compensation for champs who rely on on-hit builds (notably kayle, but also on-hit builds for champs like kog/teemo and probably others I'm forgetting) who aren't necessarily building much ad?

LeonerdoApr 11, 20177 votes

It will probably make BF Sword>Zeal>IE the optimal start on some ADCs, like Jinx, and at least make it an option on others like Cait, Ashe and Sivir. But I imagine a lot of ADCs will still prioritize the Zeal upgrades over the raw damage of IE. This probably puts the nail in the coffin for Essence Reaver too, for everyone except Sivir. Maybe we'll even see some Jhins rush IE. Only time will tell for sure, though.

In any case, the Zeal upgrade + IE powerspike will be 200 gold cheaper, so any ADC not rushing BoTRK should be more relevant in the mid-game.

As for Runaans, I would bet my best cow that the secondary bolts still proc on-hits.

RiotRiot AxesApr 11, 201710 votes

As for Runaans, I would bet my best cow that the secondary bolts still proc on-hits.

Secondary bolts still proc on hits.

TheSingularityApr 11, 20179 votes

Perhaps looking at phantom dancer could be a reasonable use of time? The only champions I see buy it are Graves Yasuo Very rarely do I see a marksman purchase a PD when any 2 of item 3085 item 3094 item 3087 simply offer more up front damage and bolster wave clear.

Where as phantom dancer is having a rather negative effect gameplay wise on the 2 champions I mentioned, as generally once they have their PD they become impossible to deal with 1v1. Generally, a champions kit dictates how well they can duel champions. Pretty much every juggernaut and duelist-esq champ in the game rely on their kits and utilising them to achieve awesome 1v1 potential. But allowing champions to be even better than this buy simply purchasing a single item, feels pretty lame.

As Kled Yorick Illaoi I can generally keep fighting a Yasuo unless they build a item 3046 . If this item is strong enough to sway the tides in his favour to such a degree where he simply stat checks me. There is a problem with the items design and/or its numbers.

Krys StarApr 11, 201712 votes

While we're at it, can you guys look into Zeke's Harbringer and Talisman of Ascension? Both items are pretty lackluster and bland, especially Zeke's Harbringer. I have no ideas of how to improve Zeke's, except maybe make it so that it is an aoe buff that occurs around the item holder and whomever the item is linked to (much like Taric's ult). but I think it'd be much appreciated by most support mains if Talisman of Ascension built out of Forbidden Idol again instead of Raptor's Cloak.

Also Redemption and Locket of the Iron Solari needs to be looked into. I think you should force its active to be centered around the item holder, restrict its usability, and have it so healing/shielding bonus doesn't affect items.

RedesignatedApr 11, 201710 votes

Yes to Zeke's and Talisman needing adjustments, no to Redemption and Locket nerfs.

Zeke's needs its passive changed from an unreliable, frequently-useless windowed buff to something persistent, or a champion-targeted effect that provides the buff and then goes on a cooldown before you can activate it again.

Ancient Coin line needs a better gold generation pattern than "sit in lane forever, get directly punished for actively warding and roaming." Adding Forbidden Idol back in without addressing that problem might be more problematic than helpful.

Redemption and Locket are fine, it's that the other options are either garbage in general item 3050 , incredibly situational for multiple reasons item 3174 item 3222 , flat-out bad on supports most of the time item 3060 item 3109 , or less desirable to get early due to things like low mana regeneration item 3504 . There's hardly anything to choose from in the first place, too.

The role needs more options, and options that are effective. You don't get the money to waste waiting to accumulate several mediocre items, especially if you're actually trying to control vision at all. item 2055

RiotRiot AxesApr 11, 20179 votes

I would like to look at Zeke's at some point, but we haven't got any changes for it just yet.

Talisman is more a matter of what lane phase options you're going to buy - the effect is strong, but if Coin puts you behind, you won't bother. I imagine we'll take a look at that at some point.

Gosh DarnApr 11, 201718 votes

Can you do something about banner of command? An item with tons of armor that only counters mages makes negative sense. If you use it to push against mages, you lack MR and die to them. If you use it for the armor the active is worthless. Please change it back or just rework it, stupidest item in the game.

Sherpa muleApr 11, 20172 votes

Not only that, but I wish the active were more guaranteed to push a lane. As it stands, half the time I go out of my way to banner up a cannon minion, and it somehow ends up getting focused by other minions and dying too soon. Or you rush down a lane to use the item, just to watch the cannon die before you get there. It would be nice if buffing a minion healed it to full, or made it take aggro last, or fear the wave briefly like the Vilemaw buff does in TT.

The worst is when you rush to a lane to buff it, and in the process show up late to a teamfight and lose because of it, only to be like "Don't worry guys, I bannered top, so it should be pushing at least!". Then you watch as you minion dies to the first wave, despite having tons of other minions with it. Its too unpredictable and unreliable.

Gosh DarnApr 11, 20172 votes

That's always been like that and the trick is to use it on the caster minions, no matter how tempting the siege minion is. Siege minions will be prioritized by turrets first and melee minions will be attacked by minions first. The casters are the best minion to use the buff on.

Jus de CastagneApr 11, 20173 votes

I really think that Redemption and Locket of the Iron Solari need to dont be nerf, but theirs alternatives need to be buff : they are the only item with what a support can feel usefull. For exemple, Knight's vow can be good but is too weak

AdalvarApr 11, 201711 votes

What about item 3508 ? The item is a parallel to item 3031 . Is it not getting any adjustments like Infinity is?

Will individual ADC's see changes to their kits to follow with these itemization changes?

LeonerdoApr 11, 20175 votes

Yeah, either you build Essence Reaver first, or not at all. And, right now not many people build it. With IE moving into that territory of first major crit item, Essence Reaver is going to all but disappear.

TheTomnusApr 11, 20175 votes

To be honest, I think a really good direction for the item would be to make it a cheap utility item. Make it build from item 1037 instead of item 1038 and give it 55 AD, then reduce its gold cost from 3600 to 3200. This would provide earlier access to 30% CDR since it'll be easier to grab your next zeal item.

RiotRiot AxesApr 11, 20174 votes

{quoted}

What about ? The item is a parallel to . Is it not getting any adjustments like Infinity is?

Will individual ADC's see changes to their kits to follow with these itemization changes?

Currently don't think I need to touch Essence Reaver to keep it relevant on its best-case users. If I'm wrong about that, it's easy enough to do a follow-up change.

No individual kit changes to Marksmen at midseason, most likely. I'm sure we'll have to do some tuning once things begin to shake out, of course, but there's nothing obvious enough to justify preemptive changes.

AdalvarApr 11, 20176 votes

Except at the time almost no one builds item 3508 . Most champions either go with item 1038 item 3085 , item 3142 item 3814 or item 3153 item 3078 .

Even champions who would most likely benefit from it like Ashe are going into item 3153 item 3071 . The only champion currently who needs item 3508 is Sivir due to her poor attack speed scaling, crit affinity, mana needs and how she scales with CDR (more ults, more AOE autos, etc)

By making item 3031 cost cheaper, no one will give a glancing look at item 3508 unless their ADC cannot survive without it and almost every ADC can survive without it.

Boingo the BunnyApr 11, 20173 votes

Have you considered making item 3031 and item 3508 have the same named passive? Crit marksman either build and double item 3086 or , , . The only way to get 100% Crit chance is to have 4 crit items, which is impossible when you need lifesteal, armor pen, and magic resist in your final build. Crit builds are supposed to = more than the sum of their parts, but it feels lackluster because you never get to 100%. I think that is a big reason why the meta has shifted away from triple crit. Why not make item 3508 stand on its own, instead of being the sidekick of item 3031 ?

Strohhut RuffyApr 11, 201711 votes

Hey,

A few thoughts from me as an ADC Main. Would it be possible to give item 1053 some extension so you can get a mid game Itemization. For example i will go for item 3072 i get an upgraded with the shild passiv of ? like botrk gives you item 3144 the slow part and for item 3812 you can get an upgraded which gives u some bleed effect and so one?

JâshînApr 11, 20175 votes

love the idea

Lord DesertApr 11, 20179 votes

What about item 3075 and item 3110 ? Since the HP+ Armor items have less HP and more Armor one of their main selling points, huge amounts of armor, is gone. The activs and passivs need to be extremely good and better, to choose the 90-100 Armor over 400+ HP and 60+ Armor. And remember the HP+Armor Items have passiv/actives too!

SagaxwikiApr 11, 20176 votes

item 3075 is a garbage item and needs to be looked at imo. On the other hand, item 3110 has a strong passive and is very gold efficient stats wise (in particular the 20% CDR is huge for tanks since it lets them get off their CC abilities more than once in a teamfight ).

Sperg outApr 12, 20172 votes

On PBE thornmail has been completely reworked, its now a 1200 gold component of Randuins

Sexy Jack RabbitApr 11, 20178 votes

So you're going to keep an eye on Yasuo right? Because boy I'm sure this update will be JUST swell for him.

WinterkillApr 11, 20178 votes

What are you doing for AP champions though? You can sit here and talk about AD Itemization but it seems like it is going to be in a far better place than the AP champions that are going to be gutted, because of all the MR, health regen and CC disabling tank items you are adding. Not only that the itemization for AP champions has been very lackluster the past few years and you have done absolutely nothing to address it.

item 3151 Bonus magic damage equal to 2% of the target's current health per second for 3 seconds. You are taking health out of a lot of items. How useful is this item going to become now?

item 3165 Only useful when a champion is at a specific amount of health that applies Grievous Wounds. You are adding so much MR and health regen that it is going to be very hard to do anything against tanks to proc the passive.

item 3135 Is this going to be as useful as you think against all of the MR tanks are building? What's the point when they can just heal it back up almost instantly?

Two AP items are only useful when a champion is at a specific amount of health or are building tons of health, which you made completely irrelevant when you removed health from items and are going to make almost impossible to dwindle tanks down. Void staff, Liandrys and Sorc Boots are the only options that AP champions have for Magic Pen, when AD and ADC champions have so many different options when it comes to armor pen and lethality . . . . that they can abuse together.

Why have you not considered adding more interesting items attached with Magic Pen? Say like an Armor or MR item that increases speed on a champion but has Magic Pen on it? You did it for AD and ADC champions.

Why have you have considered using the three different options for AP champions to choose from, like the Black Market Items:

Netherstride Grimoire - UNIQUE – MALICE: Gain 20% movement speed for 2 seconds whenever you deal ability damage.

Pox Arcana - UNIQUE – POX: Applies a stack of Pox for 10 seconds whenever you deal ability damage, stacking up to 5 times. UNIQUE – DISEASE HARVEST: Deals 100 magic damage plus 20 (+5% AP) per stack of Pox (maximum of 200 (+25% AP)) to all nearby enemies affected by Pox, and restores 5% of your maximum mana for every Pox stack harvested. 60-second cooldown.

Rite of Ruin - UNIQUE – RAZING: Gains charges upon moving or killing enemies, up to 300 charges. Attacking structures expends 50 charges to deal 100 (+15% AP) bonus true damage.

Why have you not added more defensive items for AP champions, like you did with ADC and AD champions . . . . stacked alongside with lethality and armor pen?

You were told all of the problems with AP champions itemization and you gave us quite frankly items that did absolutely nothing to address the problems with AP itemization. AP champions only have 3 magic pen options to choose from. AP champions have hardly any defenseive items like AD and ADC champions do. ADC and AD champions have a grevious wound item that applies on all auto attacks, while AP champions have to get enemy champions down to 30% health. A lot of their items are very bland, generic, and offer nothing new to the game or the role. You gave us an item that shoots out icicles and lunges champions forward. Great items that addressed all of the problems and really going to help AP champions with all the MR stacking, CC disabling, and health regen items you are adding to tank and their itemization.

When will you guys develop a care? You have yet to show it. You shoudl probably fix that.

joetommyApr 11, 20171 votes

You're trying to say that AP itemization is in a bad spot/will be in a bad spot? To back up your claims, what information do you have on the new items/reworked tanks will put AP champs/items in the dumpster?

1.) If you're talking about AP champions as a whole, you have about 70+ champs that fit that description, all with unique kits. It's incredibly hard to add utility items for a role (APC/Mid lane casters) that has so much variation and versatility.

2.) To talk about AP items needing work AS they are working on AD items is just mind boggling. You sound like a child that didn't get their ice cream first so you want to complain about it. Calm down. If they thought there was a problem with AP itemization, they would've announced it, and progressed it.

3.) On the topic of AP itemization, you need to think about the stats you're getting. For Marrelo (starting item for many AP midlaners) you get mana, 2 great passives, AP, 20% cdr (half of cap without mastery). All of this in one item. You have an item that makes you invulnerable for 2 seconds AND armor, an item that gives you a 75% flash, an item that allows you to constantly slow a fleeing enemy, an item with scaling health and mana, etc... you're saying that RIOT has done nothing and that AP itemization has been lack luster? They gave you guys new items and reworked items only a year ago!

Bottom line is, they're going to work on whatever they think is most important and your arguments are baseless. AD's have struggled to find agency for a decent amount of time now, and I'm glad they're changing it. But please... stop saying that Riot isn't doing anything, when you (seemingly) don't know what you're talking about.

WinterkillApr 11, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Positive Waves,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Ejyoz66h,comment-id=001f0000,timestamp=2017-04-11T06:11:08.200+0000)

You're trying to say that AP itemization is in a bad spot/will be in a bad spot? To back up your claims, what information do you have on the new items/reworked tanks will put AP champs/items in the dumpster?

1.) If you're talking about AP champions as a whole, you have about 70+ champs that fit that description, all with unique kits. It's incredibly hard to add utility items for a role (APC/Mid lane casters) that has so much variation and versatility.

2.) To talk about AP items needing work AS they are working on AD items is just mind boggling. You sound like a child that didn't get their ice cream first so you want to complain about it. Calm down. If they thought there was a problem with AP itemization, they would've announced it, and progressed it.

3.) On the topic of AP itemization, you need to think about the stats you're getting. For Marrelo (starting item for many AP midlaners) you get mana, 2 great passives, AP, 20% cdr (half of cap without mastery). All of this in one item. You have an item that makes you invulnerable for 2 seconds AND armor, an item that gives you a 75% flash, an item that allows you to constantly slow a fleeing enemy, an item with scaling health and mana, etc... you're saying that RIOT has done nothing and that AP itemization has been lack luster? They gave you guys new items and reworked items only a year ago!

Bottom line is, they're going to work on whatever they think is most important and your arguments are baseless. AD's have struggled to find agency for a decent amount of time now, and I'm glad they're changing it. But please... stop saying that Riot isn't doing anything, when you (seemingly) don't know what you're talking about.

The same can be said about tanks, adc, and ad champions that have just as much damage, utility, if not more mobility and healing than AP champions will ever have. Your argument is entirely invalid, Positive. You can sit here and tell me that ap champions all have unique kits and it's too hard to do anything them, but why did they do that for tanks, adc, and ad champions? They have the same utility, damage, and other functionality that another champion might have or more.
It is going to be a major problem. Look at all of the new items they are adding to the game and even adding a new armor/ad item. They are drastically increasing MR, lowering health on a ton of items, increasing health regen, blocking CC effects, mitigating the damage done to tanks by ap champions the second time around, and much more. You sit here and explain to me how Void Staff is going to be useful when almost a third of the ap champion roster is going to have a hard time doing damage and being able to stick damage on a tank when it is being blocked my cc disabling, MR stacking, and health regen items? You sit here and tell me how an ap champion is going to be able to apply the grievous wound proc on a tank at 30% health or lose. You tell me Liandrys is going to function now that health is being taken away from items and tanks and it's going to be hard to proc the burn?
No. The problem is they don't care enough to actually take the time to think about how other champions and roles are going to be effected by all of these changes. A perfect example is last year when it took them almost the entire season to nerf ADC champions and the items they reworked that was being abused by all AD and ADC champions. They don't care and these Developers like the game being one sided.

=================

Don't sit here and tell me I am overreacting. I am not. If players didn't think about these things that Developers can care less about, then what would happen with the game? You don't seem to know what you are talking about.

HäxelApr 11, 20172 votes

You say that ap gets to much damaged by that but i want to say one thing: Current game is heavy amge focused. Like the alst 2 years you had mostly mages on mid, sometimes top, jgl, supp and with ziggs now even bot carry too. Assassins got not played since season 4. They got some screen time preseason 7 but vansihed nearly again. And i talk about competive/high elo cause low elo everything is a fiesta, assassins are ok but mages are neither weak. Just look on the buffs and compare it to the nerfs of the last 2 years:

lost his aura, yea got a bigger shield still you just had 1 year less mr since lol exists. Adding now mr/lv for is even not that a bg deal. Now everyone has it, but like melees who had before aegis aura don't get mr buffs, jsut the range champs (surprize, all mages are range so even on mid you are more effizient against each other and melee assassins like akali while before you only had aegis aura only alte teamfight on your support, not lv 1 mid).
abysal was and still is a busted op item and i like that they change it with banshees. It is still a defensive item, but abysal gave you just to much offensive while the main item path was buildign negatron. You still have morellos which give you like the strognest 1 item powerspike with maybe trinity as execption. There are nearly no sczenarios you don't want morellos unless you jsut don't have mana like kennen/vlad/rumbel/akali/kata or paly in the jungel/as support. Ads 1 item powerspike is mostly trinity, botrk or lethalaty, crit just needs 2 items.
yea ap numbers went down, many peopel cry they not get anymore 600-800 ap but tell you what: penetration went for this higher and mr lower. you currently deal true dmg with masteries, runes, . you can add either strong utility like or just damage mutlipliers, movementspeed increases (which you had 2 years ago not like that, was only a zeal thing) and even autoattack multipliers like . A etc can still kill you easy with 300 ap or less. if they have lategame maybe jsut 500 ap but deal true dmg to carrys or reduce them to like 25 mr do you thing this is a good ap balance?

Sumup: Mages are already rly strong, last years marksman and mageupdate just increased their value to their rivals on mid (assassins and poke ads) and they just got hit lightly by the assasinupdate and exhaust nerfs. Giving Mr per lv to range champs, switching abysal with banshees and giving mr items more mr/introducing more mr items is just fair to what happened over the last 2 years and while ga even looses his mr there is no need to add/buff unnecesary ap items. Like hell even if ads and aps have their own strenghts (zhonyas/banshees/rylais/roa ap; ga,/maw/qss/edge of night ad) adcs would love to have an tiem like protobelt, even if it is the sandblade from blackmarket brawlers. Ads have problems too like tabbis. The fact that tabbis are so strong and many buy it more as mercurys is just good for mages too.

JâshînApr 11, 20172 votes

Velkoz ult and Syndra w are also true damage, and new Amumu passive

RaxistaichoApr 11, 20176 votes

I'd like to see a post like this addressing the tank item updates from a mage's perspective.

JarvansWARApr 11, 20176 votes

Basically, mages will be seeing less health overall, making Void staff more effective overall.

Adaptive Helm will definitely hinder spam mages slightly, such as Cassiopeia or Ryze, but not enough to warrant buffs because of their already dominant nature.

Banshee's Veil will now be a mage item with Abyssal Scepter's stats and the spell shield from the original BV. Abyssal Scepter is now a tank item intended to boost ally mage power on engaging tanks, so look out for that.

And finally, especially if you are a burst mage player, watch for Gargoyle Stoneplate. This item will create monster health tanks for several seconds, so watch out and make sure not to waste your abilities on a suddenly 8k HP Leona.

That's all I see for now.

TotalJerkApr 11, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Ejyoz66h,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-11T02:04:25.098+0000)

Executioner’s Calling Current assessment is that Executioner’s is too powerful as a lane counter to certain champions, but the passive is an important release valve against sustain-based champions later in the game. We’re exploring ways of making it more costly to access that power early in the game, either with a direct cost increase or by making it less reliable.

IMO Grievous wounds should be moved from passives to actives and the items that carry it should be rebalanced/tuned accordingly.

Another idea would be making the application of it more favorable in itemization towards tanks/supports. Low damage champions currently do basically net negative damage against healing champs/builds. It feels like shit when you catch a light fighter or AD assassin with item 3072 or item 3074 at 3% health and not only does he effortlessly kill you, he ends up healthier for you having even tried to finish him. I know Rito is going for "outplay" nowadays, but for some champions the simple fact that they bought a item 1053 can make them completely impossible to put down without a carry regardless of their health when you catch them.

These could both be bad ideas in practice, but I'm just throwing them out there.

MordepoolApr 11, 20174 votes

Steraks gage where ? Nowhere. Oh that's right it's just a failed item waiting for deletion

Edit: just so you all know this comment was posted before any changes to Steraks made it to the PBE. Frankly could be the reminder Riot needed to change it

RiotRiot AxesApr 11, 201714 votes

{quoted}

Steraks gage where ?

I agree that it needs love. Not sure if that will happen for midseason or not. We're talking about it.

Gosh DarnApr 11, 20176 votes

Have the passive activate based on bonus hp rather than max hp so that ADCs won't be able to abuse it because they don't buy multiple HP items.

I Sushi IApr 11, 20174 votes

What about Mercurial Scimitar? I know it's not used primarily as a life steal item, but it gives lifesteal. Are you guys going to touch on that or is it not part of the core lifesteal items/doesn't need to be on par with them?

RiotRiot AxesApr 11, 20178 votes

Pretty happy with Mercurial as a niche buy when you have to have that QSS effect. Lifesteal makes that more palatable, but I wouldn't want to push it back into being your core lifesteal purchase in most games.

XaviourApr 11, 20173 votes

What do you think about qss on mages/ap champs?

Is one of the intentions of the new banshee's to reduce it's need ? Or if not, shouldn't it have a 'valid' build path for ap users aswell, since it's a must buy in certain match ups.

Also do you think it's fair that a relatively cheap item can completely make a champ useless? (malz supp)

La BelloApr 11, 20174 votes

Wait ..Is this the "crit changes" Riot was bragging about going through with that was going to solve crit marksmen problem? not gonna lie I though the changes would be bigger than some slight price adjustments. I thought we were getting a entire mini-rework to the crit mechanic lol.

MuzétApr 11, 20174 votes

What about releasing a tank item that allows them to apply grievous wounds via CC ? And why does Morellonomicon got a weaker version of Grievous Wounds than Executioner ?

RememdiumApr 11, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Ejyoz66h,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-11T02:04:25.098+0000)

Executioner's Calling Current assessment is that Executioner's is too powerful as a lane counter to certain champions, but the passive is an important release valve against sustain-based champions later in the game. We're exploring ways of making it more costly to access that power early in the game, either with a direct cost increase or by making it less reliable.

How about increasing the healing reduction progressively while you're in combat with that enemy?

SuperPewPewApr 11, 20173 votes

Why buff Death's Dance though?

It might not be the most attractive choice, but it makes Graves quite strong atm.

Ale non è maleApr 11, 20173 votes

With the actual state of things, you can never make viable at the same time all the kind of AD damage dealers...Not every kind of damage dealers should be effective at the same time, but you got to get a baseline to work upon.

The different kind of mechanics you deal damage through AD are too much interconnected, which means balance for one effect all the others and always make one dominant

On-hit/AS - DPS - Crit - Burst/spellcast all affect each others, and not all these things should synergize together perfectly, you should have one of the rock-paper-scissor system have a less than optimal combination for a specific target goal

So you got to aim to make items more specific and with less synergies like you are trying to do with resistences items on your midseason tank update

Listen Rioters, as long as you do not accept that BotRK must scale also with max hp% while being weaker overall and vs squishies and thus synergize more heavily with the Titanic Hydra (to adjust accordingly making it weaker and being less effective as AoE) Giant Slayer and Grevious Wounds effectys, you will always have a big problem with AD and armor/HP itemization (as well as strengthening those item counters on the defensive side) As long as you don't accept that As items must offer bigger tradeoffs towards either AS or Crit or DPS or AoE effects mainly through raw stats, you can't avoid the issue of entire classes running the same itemization, and thus having a small meta, because you can't touch the different stats separately. As long as items like The Black Cleaver or the Trinity Force are effective at the same way against any kind of target you can't properly manage each one of them to have anyone its own baseline of effectiveness in any meta without being crowded by a better option (and imho, It is ok that different things are stronger at different points, but most things should be viable at the same time)

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 11, 20173 votes

assassins will abandon item 3134 items again for pure AD.

88KenchApr 11, 20173 votes

What about champs like Yasuo that build Infinity Edge and Zeal early? Isn't this kind of an insane buff to him?

CritkeeperApr 11, 20171 votes

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LankPantsApr 11, 20173 votes

Why would anyone want that Randuin's? It's far weaker than Rand's is on live. It has 75 less HP and no crit reduction, a 5% increase in attack speed reduction does not make up for that. Randuin's on the PBE is a bad DMP, no one will ever buy it in that state.

JhinfamyApr 11, 20171 votes

Remove on hit from Runaan's Hurricane... correct me if I'm wrong, but this makes Cait passive no longer super-stackable with the item. If that's right, she'll be put in the dirt for good, only to be replaced by jinx.

AngieGoesAwooApr 11, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Remove on hit from Runaan's Hurricane... correct me if I'm wrong, but this makes Cait passive no longer super-stackable with the item. If that's right, she'll be put in the dirt for good, only to be replaced by jinx.

The item is losing it's base 15 physical damage on hit not the ability to proc Caitlyn passive. If they did make it work like that it would also not be the best for jinx seeing how her rockets would most likely not proc as a result but no need to worry on that seeing how the item still procs stuff like that. [slayer-jinx-wink]

MatthewRT2Apr 11, 20171 votes

So last season was the grand nerf of mages and this year is the year of making AD broken so next year ap champs are going to get a bunch of ap armor items? With the addition of scaling MR the AD items shouldn't need as much MR on them if any anymore, since you added AD to Guardian angel making a bad decision to puck up if you are AP and have nerfed the amount of AP items give mages are slowly being snuffed out to where only a few mages are viable.

JâshînApr 11, 20173 votes

I started league about the time of MAGES UPDATE, i mean ... I really dont think mages are weak now !!