Mid Year Mage Updates - Annie Direction

RiotCaptain Gameplay·3/26/2016, 7:17:25 PM·1 votes·173,495 views

Since the last update, we've thrown a couple mages into the pile beyond our original six as ones to tackle. Enclosed below is your one way ticket to Tibber’s Tea Party. Don’t miss it.

One of League iconic duos, Annie and her bear Tibbers have gone through their fair share of updates as League has grown over the years. Throughout this, Annie has held on tight to her identity as a little pyro surrounded by gods and demons. Even the likes of Aurelion Sol is fated to die in a fire when matched up against a skilled Annie player. But while Annie has weathered well, her other half Tibbers isn’t living up to his fearsome potential. While Tibbers always makes a dramatic entrance, his contributions to the fight post-summoning aren’t always befitting the awesome flaming magic bear he is.

Things we especially like:

  • The flash bear drop. Annie’s bread-and-butter burst combo is a threatening affair that’s more about skirting the edges of Annie’s range than dodging a skillshot. While League benefits a lot from the potential to outplay most abilities in the game, having Champions with reliable abilities is also good for the game as long as they don’t make less-reliable champions obsolete.
  • High accessibility, high mastery curve. Despite being one of the easier champions to pick up, Annie’s performance scales dramatically with experience thanks her limited but sharp windows of opportunity.

Things we are working on improving:

  • Tibbers AI and Control. The current state of affairs re: summoning leaves much to be desired, reducing him to be League’s cuddliest walking sunfire cape. Tibbers is certainly a powerful ally, but commanding him beyond tanking a turret or walking towards your enemies often yields a less-than-satisfactory experience. Often, he’s left cancelling his basic attacks while Annie is busy slings spells.
  • Hiding power behind poor threat communication. Constantly checking Annie’s buff bar should not be the correct, or only way to know if she’s hiding a stun behind her next Molten Shield.
  • Throw-away Passive stacking spell. We’d like Molten Shield to have a use past “Pyromania Stack”.

What we hope comes out of the update:

  • Annie players should feel connected to and empowered when accompanied by their summon Tibbers. This will mean shifting some power out from Annie’s direct abilities into Tibbers himself.
  • Players matched against Annie should have better communication around when she’s most threatening and when she isn’t.
  • Molten Shield should have value as a powerful defensive ability on a mage; especially one that’s often bear-dropping into the thick of battle.

With this update, we’re finally answering that age-old question: Yes Annie, we have seen your bear Tibbers.

Best, Beluga Whale

725 Comments

Rock MD3/26/2016, 8:05:55 PM149 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beluga Whale,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=3IXxdZwi,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-26T19:17:25.629+0000) Things we especially like:

  • The flash bear drop.

THAT'S WHAT YOU LIKE???

Flash Bear drop is the only thing that keeps her from being an actual champion outside of solo queue because there's no legitimate counterplay to a proper flash Tibbers. It's disgusting and overpowered as hell and makes her a monster that increases Annie's range of effectiveness from ~700 (you listed having to skirt around this range being a problem) to ~1100 (so why is this something you like?). Meaning you're zoned any time she has so many stacks up or you eat her and her jungler's combo and you're pretty much dead with no way to react outside of being able to Cleanse Flash every time she flashes.

Z463/26/2016, 11:33:22 PM59 votes

I know a lot of people still really hate the idea of her ultimate being instant, but that's not going to be my complaint.

I made a suggestion here on the boards a few months ago about how to give Tibbers more interaction with the rest of Annie's kit.

It's like you said: Annie is a One Stun Pony, and Tibbers is pretty damn pathetic after he's out on the field. He's only good for the immediate stun and nuke even though he lasts for up to 45 seconds afterwards. Worse is that she's 100% reliant on Flash, and even you guys clearly consider her worthless without it.

You have the technology to make Tibbers more meaningful.

So here's my idea: Make it so Summon: Tibbers cannot trigger Pyromania.

Use Tibbers to extend Annie's range, even further than Flash would allow. Give Tibbers the ability to cast Disintegrate and Incinerate.

If the target of Annie's Q is out of her personal range, but within Tibbers', the spell will be cast from Tibbers, and vice versa. Both would cast it if the target is in both of their attack ranges. Incinerate would always cast from both as normal.

If an unfortunate soul is caught between the two and hit by both, Disintegrate and Incinerate deal 180-200% damage. If the ratios are lowered to make up for that, maybe to 50-60% AP scaling on her Q and W down from 80 and 85% (meaning the increased damage would surpass her current scaling), this would still encourage Annie to get in a danger zone for maximum damage output, which is one of her current few weaknesses. The base damage staying the same would allow her to still farm as efficiently with her spells in the early game as she currently does, and remain effective as a support.

She can even be a safer ranged threat, even if that means the AoE and immediate damage is smaller by comparison. She could RW and still stun 2-3 people in Incinerate's cone immediately instead of being forced to Flash-R for an engage.

This would remove Annie's reliance on Flash and that horribly one-dimensional playstyle, as well as give Tibbers much more interaction and potential within her kit while keeping her current drawbacks intact. It might make things more difficult for new players to pick up, but you've already been doing that with Ashe and Garen, and restricting new players from using Flash keeps them from understanding Annie's threat level in the first place.

mk DILLY3/26/2016, 8:33:04 PM53 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beluga Whale,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=3IXxdZwi,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-26T19:17:25.629+0000)

Things we especially like:

  • The flash bear drop.

WHAT? This should be number one on your list of things you don't like! This is what makes Annie completely unfun for everyone but the person playing her and why everyone hates her. Her instantaneous, AoE, insanely high damaging, AND stunning combo is the primary thing that has always been broken on her. As long as she keeps it, there is zero counter play other than choose one of a handful of champions that can poke her out of lane and cs without getting anywhere close to her, which is also miserable for Annie. She has some of the most binary play in LoL and has very little counter play.

AT LEAST give her the Corki phosphorus bomb treatment and make her ult have a travel time. It would even be really cool to have her throw her toy bear into the middle of the enemy team and have it erupt into a flaming life-size bear. Sure, Annie mains might not like having this change, but neither do any mains when the thing that makes their champ have little counter play gets removed. Put her power somewhere else, but this cannot stay!

Frankly, there is no reason to even change her if you're not fixing her lack-of-all-counter play flash combo, and that one sentence in your post kind of makes me lose all hope in this remake.

Nefas3/26/2016, 8:13:59 PM46 votes

I don't understand how it isn't hypocritical to say that you like the flash-bear drop here when in Malz' Mage Update Riot said that a kit that relies on flash/acting as an assassin is unhealthy.

{quoted}

Because if this character needs to be played like an assassin in order to win, he's probably not healthy for the game. His only options are to walk up to or Flash up to someone and combo them, or to catch someone off guard (like in brush or something) and combo them. There are champions that are much better suited to do both of these things, and given Malzahar's kit, if that's what it took for him to succeed, he's probably just overtuned.

Why do you consider Annie "better suited" to do these things?

Yuumi or Lose3/26/2016, 7:34:54 PM43 votes

Don't make her ult an insta stun pls. :(

Also, anything happening with Heimer? :)

Slamurai Jack3/26/2016, 7:50:16 PM40 votes

Flash Tibbers is the part you like? It's the most problematic part of the champion. How you can list the most blatantly anti-fun part of the champion as the part you like the most is baffling to me.

Blackquill3/26/2016, 7:34:04 PM27 votes

Are you going to give Annies passive a decay over time? I know that she is supposed to be very accessible but having to play with the "she could drop it anytime now"-mentality once she hits lvl 6 and sits on her passive stacks for minutes(!) is surely annoying, especially in the botlane where she is not forced to farm with her spells.

Edit: Okay, a decay might not the best option but there should be something that Annie has to pay to maintain the threat of stunning someone. What if keeping 4th stack would drain mana until it is being used? It is not like Annie is super mana hungry with her Q refund anyway. (Disclaimer: Just an idea.)

Manwalrus3/27/2016, 12:57:28 AM13 votes

"high mastery curve."

Funniest thing I've heard all day.

Solideus3/26/2016, 7:22:01 PM9 votes

Are you adding a pre-impact indicator to Tibbers, a short one like on Orianna's R? Edit: As in an indicator and ~0.2-0.5 delay before Tibbers drops down.

Desiderium3/26/2016, 8:10:52 PM6 votes

While we're looking at Annie, can we fix the bug with her cone spell where it damages and stuns enemies who become untargetable during its cast time/flash out during its cast time? It was done for Darius, and it still has to be done for Cho'Gath.

Tychusfindlay9193/26/2016, 7:54:11 PM5 votes

It baffles me that champs like Annie are getting reworked when entirely useless champs like galio, yorick, and (against a half decent team) garen and a few others continue to rot away into uselessness outside of bronze league.

ShadowParker3/26/2016, 8:41:30 PM3 votes

What's the reasoning behind adding more champions? Is it that Vel'koz was really easy to tackle and had extra room? Or is it that the big 6 are coming a long a lot easier then you guys had originally thought. OR. Is it that you decided she needed more to achieve the correct changes?

IxtaliKing3/26/2016, 7:35:24 PM3 votes

I thought these threads were only for the big 6 :O. Does this mean you guys have decided on all the other mages who will be updated?

Javazon3/27/2016, 12:51:43 AM1 votes

Annie's fine how she is. Gutting her so she can control her bear to do more sounds like it could go poorly. Why not make a new champion for this endeavor?

I'm all for fixing clunky things in champions but otherwise the old saying comes to mind. If it's not broken don't fix it.