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Bruiser Leona, AD vs AP

Ariel the Cruel··5 votes·2,471 views

Did this in response to a post in a separate thread. Just throwing it here so it doesn't get lost in "memes & games"; and hopefully someone can fins some use in it.


OK. Crunched some numbers. First 2 are based on what seemed like a somewhat reasonable build, second 2 are based on attempting to maximize damage output. I should point out, I did not scrutinize all the possible builds. So the end result could be off a bit. However, this should still be close enough to be representative of the 2 builds.

(Skip to bottom if you don't care about the math.)

at lvl 18

AD: 111 Q: 160 (0.3) W: 260 (0.4) E: 220 (0.4) R: 350 (0.8)

Full combo using all abilities calculating raw damage. AD(3) + 990 + AP(1.9) + other


No items:

333 + 990 + 0 + 0 = 1434

AD Bruiser build:

Cleaver, TF, Maw, Zz'Rot, BotRK, Tabi

AD: 40+30+60+25=155 AP: 30 Other: base AD(2) + [BotRK]

798 + 990 + 57 + 222 = 2067 + [BotRk]


AP Bruiser:

Abyssal, RoA, Gauntlet, Banner, Torment, Sorcerer's

AD: 0 AP: 70+80+30+60+50=290 Other: base AD(1.25) + [torment]

333 + 990 + 551 + 138.75 = 2012.75 + [torment]


Max AP:

RoA, Seraphs, Deathcap, Luden's, Hourglass, Rylai's

AD: 0 AP: (80+60+120+120+120+100+[Mana(0.03)=78.96])=678.96+[total AP(0.3)=203.688] = 882.648 Other: 100 + [AP(0.15)=132.3972] = 232.3972 Total Mana: 982+650+1000=2632

333 + 990 + 1677.0312 + 232.3972 = 3232.4284

(Too much crap going on with this one. I don't promise 100% correct.)


Max AD:

IE, Hydra, Scimitar, BT, TF, Muramasa

AD: 80+75+80+80+25+30+[mana(0.02)=43.64]=413.64 AP: 30 Total Mana: 982+1000+200= 2182 Mana cost full kit: 65+60+60+100=285 Other: base AD(2) + Current mana(0.03) + AD

Muramasa: mana after abilities: 1897 1st AA: 1840.09 (56.91) 2ed AA: 1784.8873 (55.2027) 3ed AA: 1731.340681 (53.546619) Total damage: 165.659319

1573.93 + 990 + 57 + 222 + 111 + 165.659319 = 3119.589319 {+786.96 per crit up to +2360.88 = 5480.469319}

(again, lots of crap going on here. feel free to double-check my math.)


Factoring in LichBane:

AP Bruiser replacing Gauntlet with LichBane: 2222.25 ICB: 30 AP, 500 mana, 125% base AD LB: 80 AP, 250 mana, [75%base AD + 50% AP]

70+80+80+60+50=340 83.25+170=253.25

333+990+646+253.25=2222.25

Max AP replacing Rylai's with LichBane: 3716.0649 LB: 80 AP, 250 mana, [75%base AD + 50% AP {83.75+433.199=516.949}] RCS: 100 AP, 0mana

LE: 100+[AP(0.15)=129.597] = 229.9597

(80+60+120+120+120+80+[mana(0.03)=86.46])=666.46+[total >AP(0.3)=199.938]=866.398 Total mana: 982+650+1000+250=2882

333 + 990 + 1646.1562 + 229.9597 + 516.949 = 3716.0649


End findings:

The raw damage from a full combo using each of the builds: AD Bruiser: 2067 + [BotRk] AP Bruiser: 2012.75 + [torment] ------Lichbane: 2222.25 Max AP: 3232.4284 ------Lichbane: 3716.0649 Max AD: 3119.589319 - 5480.469319 (crit variable)


On LichBane:

The bruiser Build increase wasn't too terribly significant given the circumstances (it's not a perfectly optimized build, nor is its counterpart). The damage boost from the Max AP build was a lot bigger than I expected though.

Overall, I'd say it's an option if you're going tanky bruiser. You trade some defense of a bit of extra damage (though with her W, I'm sure she can afford it). If you're going full AP though, it's definitely a strong buy.


Based on this, AD seems to have a slight advantage in raw Burst. Though it's also worth noting that MR has a higher gold value and most champs don't have MR per level which could result in AP winning out post-mitigation.

Another facet to consider is AoE. Since 3 of her abilities can hit multiple enemies while her AA's are strictly single target (or very small reduced damage AoE with hydra). So AP could also potentially win out in team fights.

The biggest factor I would point out here, is availability. AA's are available a lot more often than her abilities; especially her ult which provides just under half her AP scaling and just over 1/4 her base damage. Also, her Eclipse shield is easy to juke and/or wait out if not prepped before her combo. Further, AD helps her secure objectives which can make her a lot more threatening as a tower diver or split-pusher.


Over all, I would still argue that AD bruiser is the stronger build. But after running the numbers, I'll concede that they're both very close in peak burst potential. You can probably get away with running either one depending on what your team needs.

TL;DR: I spent waaaaaaay to much time on this.


EDIT 1: Found an error in the AD portion of the equation. This caused the total values to drop slightly (more on AD builds). All numbers have been updated accordingly.

EDIT 2: Miscalculated crit on the full AD build. The total potential damage has increased slightly. Total updated accordingly.

5 Comments

NorthernDruid1 votes

Where's the lichbane in your AP builds?

Lichbane and CDR all the way. Your Q is up a decent amount of the time with full or close to full CDR, with you other base abilities not far behind.

You can't have a full AP build on a character like Leona without Lichbane.

Merxamers1 votes

He left out lichbane bc he was looking for the maximum possible amount of Magic Damage Leona can pull off, so the OC used the highest AP items available. The purpose of this was to find which build has the maximum potential damage.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

OP has been updated calculating Lichbane.

Surprisingly, Lichbane actually added ~500 damage to the max AP build. Though the max AD build adds ~600 damage for every crit. With 30% crit chance, 3 guaranteed AA's in her combo, and the way crit chance increases invisibly with each AA: it's probably safe to assume she'll get at least 1 half the time.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

In the AP bruiser build I used Frozen gauntlet for the added CC, Armor, and to extend Torment's enhanced burn. (Before someone calls favoritism: note that Zz'Rot in the AD bruiser build provides neither AD or AP.)

In the Max AP build I used all items that give greater raw AP.


If I were to factor them in...

AP Bruiser replacing Gauntlet with LichBane: 2222.25

ICB: 30 AP, 500 mana, 125% base AD LB: 80 AP, 250 mana, [75%base AD + 50% AP]

70+80+80+60+50=340 83.25+170=253.25

333+990+646+253.25=2222.25

Max AP replacing Rylai's with LichBane: 3716.0649 (why you do this to me!?)

LB: 80 AP, 250 mana, [75%base AD + 50% AP {83.75+433.199=516.949}] RCS: 100 AP, 0mana

LE: 100+[AP(0.15)=129.597] = 229.9597

(80+60+120+120+120+80+[mana(0.03)=86.46])=666.46+[total >AP(0.3)=199.938]=866.398 Total mana: 982+650+1000+250=2882

333 + 990 + 1646.1562 + 229.9597 + 516.949 = 3716.0649


The bruiser Build increase wasn't too terribly significant given the circumstances (it's not a perfectly optimized build, nor is its counterpart). The damage boost from the Max AP build was a lot bigger than I expected though.

Overall, I'd say it's an option if you're going tanky bruiser. You trade some defense of a bit of extra damage (though with her W, I'm sure she can afford it). If you're going full AP though, it's definitely a strong buy.

I'll update the OP.

NorthernDruid1 votes

Oh, yeah after skimming more closely i noticed the nice synergy of Liandry's and iceborn in the AP bruiser build.

If what you're going for is raw damage in an AP build though, that lichbane is so incredibly good.

I really liked the look of the AP bruiser build, Iceborn is such a good general item on Leona.

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