Went essence reaver on ashe, seemed good to me, i liked it but the inevitable comment came :
«Oh your build sucks» And then, «I'm not being rude, i'm being constructive»
Right, telling someone that his build sucks is indeed very constructive. At least have some arguments.
Jamaree17 votesWhat I personally do, so in the case of Ashe: "Hm, Ashe, why do you have Essence Reaver?"
When asked instead of told, you are bring up conversation and instead of seeming like you are coming off with a better-than-thou like attitude.
You here their reason, and then build off what they said and make suggestions, that way, you are speaking to them as an equal instead of treating them inferior.
DrKessler6 votesWhat I personally do, so in the case of Ashe: "Hm, Ashe, why do you have Essence Reaver?"
When asked instead of told, you are bring up conversation and instead of seeming like you are coming off with a better-than-thou like attitude.
You here their reason, and then build off what they said and make suggestions, that way, you are speaking to them as an equal instead of treating them inferior.
Yes, but alot of times even after answering the answer you would get in return is «it sucks dont build it» From experience, i learned to just dont argue with the people that keep using weak arguments ex : your bad, it sucks, your build is garbage and so on.
Jamaree2 votesYes, but alot of times even after answering the answer you would get in return is «it sucks dont build it» From experience, i learned to just dont argue with the people that keep using weak arguments ex : your bad, it sucks, your build is garbage and so on.
Yup, talking it out, no one wants to be told they are bad and will outright defend themselves against it, BUT if they are doing bad, trust me, people will normally accept help.
SexyTaylorSwift5 votesMeh, even that response seems to be judgmental. It implies that Essence Reaver is a bad option on Ashe right off the start, which telling them that their build sucks does as well. You are basically doing the same thing, except trying to be nice about it lol. Instead, you should probably just tell them that X item isn't typically the best build on X champ for X reason.
If I'm a new player and you ask me that question, I'm going to be like, "Well, seems like an obvious choice. I get great AD, CD, lifesteal, and a passive that allows me to perma Q."
Jamaree11 votesYou are basically doing the same thing, except trying to be nice about it lol.
Exactly, that being nice is all you really need. Being nice is all you really need.
If I'm a new player and you ask me that question, I'm going to be like, "Well, seems like an obvious choice. I get great AD, CD, lifesteal, and a passive that allows me to perma Q."
Well with newer players it is easier, they are likely to believe anything because they are new.
SexyTaylorSwift3 votesYou are missing my point here. You are not being nice, since it is still implying the person shouldn't be doing it. It's kind of a belittling question. Lol, there is a difference in trying to be nice, and being nice. Need to give some insight as to why you think something, not just saying you are wrong lol, especially with the given case about Ashe building an item that is seems decent for what she does.
Brenticus127 votesI think they're just the type of guy who doesn't like being told something opposite to what they think if they pick up on an implication like that and getting angry instead of answering the question.
There is a huge difference in implications when you ask instead of tell. Yeah, there's still going to be a slight implication that you're belittiling the other guy but no one is really going to pick up on that unless they're that insecure or looking for that kind of response (Like what I used to do when I pick up 4 Dorans as Rengar and people ask me why I have them. I was expecting the question and relished being aloof and sort of toxic about it by saying "It's my build, I build what I want". Not anymore ofc).
By asking you're actively showing that you want a discussion and not a one-way blame game.
NethOinkz8 votesI built muramana and gauntlet on ezreal against an all AD comp team and they're like "what the hell is your build?".
Orangesilk1 votesBlue Ez is an outdated build, unless your whole teamcomp is somehow about kiting and outmaneuvering the enemy team, you want your ADC to deal high amounts of damage. Think of it this way, while you built muramana and gauntlet, the enemy ADC went for IE and Shiv, you deal pathetic damage compared to them now.
Jacky Shen7 votesBlue Ez is an outdated build, unless your whole teamcomp is somehow about kiting and outmaneuvering the enemy team, you want your ADC to deal high amounts of damage. Think of it this way, while you built muramana and gauntlet, the enemy ADC went for IE and Shiv, you deal pathetic damage compared to them now.
Blue 
master race. 
I will kite your assesment into oblivion. 
Malicious Fury6 votesIt only sucks to them if you're losing your lane or slightly behind in CS. Essence Reaver doesn't suck. It's not the "best" choice, but it certainly doesn't suck. That's like saying your build sucks because you built Phantom Dancer instead of building Statikk. PD is an excellent choice. So is Statikk. People need to get over themselves.
qetzel6 votesThat is never the right thing for someone to say. I wish that people thought a little bit more.
Something more like "Why have you built Essence Reaver on Ashe. Because of how critical hits scale with attack speed I would have thought that Infinity edge and a Shiv would be better."
To which the reply "I like the mana and cooldown reduction it gives me. It lets me keep their entire team slowed." would be fair.
The correct response to that would be to accept the build. "Alright then. Fair enough. Try the other build in the next game though - I think it is worth it, although you will have to use Q less."
That is giving friendly, constructive advice.
CaesarFlickerman2 votesBecause League players are that civilized and receptive to being questioned on anything they do.
Mikal Pikal1 votesThe problem with even doing that is that typing is NOT something you want your team doing. The more you are typing back and forth the less you are paying attention/playing the game. Do you REALLY need to know why Ashe build ER? She already bought it so that's not going to change. If you are legitimately being constructive, save it for after the game.
aaronconlin5 votesHonestly Essence Reaver on Ashe isn't bad, her Q passive takes mana and it gives mana back. If you built Manamune/Muramana then its passive will also take mana to do additional damage, which is also helped by Essence Reaver. If your build works for you just continue with what you're doing.
One time I went AP Ashe and our Gnar said we lost because of me doing this when he was 1/12 and I was something like 9/6 (can't really remember it was a couple months ago)
OJ1914 votesHonestly Essence Reaver on Ashe isn't bad, her Q passive takes mana and it gives mana back. If you built Manamune/Muramana then its passive will also take mana to do additional damage, which is also helped by Essence Reaver. If your build works for you just continue with what you're doing.
One time I went AP Ashe and our Gnar said we lost because of me doing this when he was 1/12 and I was something like 9/6 (can't really remember it was a couple months ago)
just because someone is more useless than you are due to lack of skill, doesn't mean your build isn't useless.
it's not like oldschool AP Yi (who himself was only viable because of his Q being very low cooldown+resets and massive tank with W) or AP Ezreal or AP Tristana which can actually work, you have ONE SINGLE AP SCALING ABILITY which has a relatively small area of effect and a very long cooldown for it to be your own damage ability. Even if you buy lichbane and DFG you are likely to be more useless than just about anything else in the entire game.
Like I don't even want to be mean here, but when you play AP Ashe you are ruining the game for 4 other people just as much as the 1/12 gnar did.
SexyTaylorSwift10 votesActually not. You are the problem with the game. If he did well with it, what does it matter to you how he did it? I've seen AP Ashes do a considerable amount of damage with Lich bane and the Liandry's Torment proc. Also has some CC. You sitting here saying that a 9/6+assist (which AP Ashe is probably going to get a decent amount of) AP Ashe is as bad as a 1/12 player is just dumb. "You did well, but I really don't like your build so you ruined the game for me". You sound just like my teammates in the last game. I wanted to have fun and build boots/hydra/BOtRK/triforce/BT/IE on my Nasus. Team trolled all game long that I need to be tanky. Even after I 1v3 their fed adc and mid lane, then pushed to win the game BY MYSELF, they still flamed me because it wasn't what they wanted. Stahp being meta sheep. If something works for someone, let them do it. You would be the person bitching about those unicorn people going TF jungle, and then get your butt kicked by it.
aaronconlin4 votes^this.
I went AP Ashe because we had absolutely zero AP on the team, I built 
and 
so my basic attacks still did decent damage and I got quite a few kills with my "ONE SINGLE AP SCALING ABILITY" as OJ191 said. And quite honestly, I did it because I felt like it and it was fun.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesNext time, try also building torment. Since your W is on such a low CD, you can get the proc pretty often xD It is really good if against tanky champs lol. I have also played the AP Ashe. AP Varus and AP Ez are my favorites to do it with (AP Ez is actually viable in ranked lol).
aaronconlin1 votesAP Varus is fun too, the %damage is great. I also like AP Aatrox
SexyTaylorSwift2 votes100% crit Fiddles is by far the best, though.
Duke Anax1 votesWven better, because of Frostshot, your W wil get double damage from Torment.
With the cdr from Nahsors and full rank W you actually have a constant burn.
OJ1913 votes^this.
I went AP Ashe because we had absolutely zero AP on the team, I built
the thing is, barring utter enemy stupidity, you're better off having the multiplicative damage of an ADC than having an utterly suboptimal AP Ashe. You can do damage yes. But even if they all stacked the hell out of armour you'd be doing far, far, far more with ADC Ashe especially with the current state of pen vs armour.
In the vast majority of games I'd rather have no AP than no ADC, even if that meant going ADC Ahri or something because nobody picked an ADC, because you simply lose less out of it. Barring some niche tankbuster cases like Malzahar, you NEED an ADC to take out bruisers effectively, whereas if you have no burst AP all it means is you have to be a little more careful around their squishies.
aaronconlin2 votesMaybe, I didn't say I picked it because I wanted to be more effective. I picked it because we needed some AP and playing AP Ashe is fun. That and not much can beat a 100% AP arrow flying across the map
SladeXD1 votesThis guy, I like you. I agree with you.
DeadXera5 votesI had the same problem the other day while playing Alistar, built censer (awesome item on him) and Banner of Command (teamwide MR, and I wanted to be able to help counter the enemy team's pushing), one of my teammates was like "Ali your build is trash, wtf? Not tanky..." despite us having a volibear and a chogath both building tanky... -.-;
Luckily the enemy AP nidalee shortly thereafter gave me some retribution when she said in allchat "WTF IMMORTAL SEIGE MINION" after she spent a solid minute trying to kill it (spell immunity bwahahaha!).
Interestingly, the AS buff from censer plus the pushing power from my buffed minions helped significantly when it came to winning the game, because with my heal it allowed us to make extremely fast, extremely hard pushes any time we managed to ace the enemy, even if I was the only survivor.
Baron buff, Censer, Banner, and Elixer of Ruin just made for silly-strong minions, btw.
Duke Anax1 votesFunny, that's pretty much the same build im using. Ali needs to start Ardent Censer, no matter if tanky or not, he simply needs the mana and that is the best mana item for him.
And how exactly is Banner not tanky? HP and MR, cdr for tank ult, AP for heal.
cshakes1 votesI guess the idea is that Locket has more tank stats and a shield active. Banner's still better for immortal minions, though.
DeadXera1 votesI dunno, I guess they were expecting me to do randuins + Locket or something. I had plenty of soak from my ult, and had lowest deaths on the team pretty much all game long, so I just don't know what they were complaining about. XD
Sammystorm4 votesI agree with your post.
However essence reaver does suck on ashe.
Ashe already has low damage. So you need to ramp up damage items as fast as possible to be as big of a threat as other ad's. Also mid to late game you rarely run out of mana unless you skirmish alot but ashe is more of a team fighter because of her ult so I would say that pretty much every stage of the game essence reaver is trumped by pretty much everything else a ad might buy.
Am I doing it right?
Duke Anax1 votesThat depends largely on your playstyle. I actually think Essence Reaver was made specifically for Ashe.
She doesn't need mana early, but her Volley cooldown scales so hard, that she can really use the mana at the time you complete the Reaver.
Of course her passive makes starting IE probably the best choice, but as second or third item I would take ER over any other lifesteal item.
Sammystorm1 votesbut if you forgo a atk speed item as a 2nd item you are cutting into your mid game. If you take it as a 3rd item you are losing armor pen which is needed to deal with tanks at this point. If you take it as a 5th item you are losing out on more life steal or better passives or better damage. If you take it as a 6th item you lose out on your one survivability item.
See what I am saying? At every point in the game it cuts ashe's damage or survivability compared to other items in the game. This is a problem with reaver and not so much ashe.
Duke Anax2 votesI usually see penetration as 4th or 5th item. if you have no base damage, simply getting more AD gives more than penetration could amplify.
For AS, Berserkers and Zeal should be enough early, besides, on Ashe that first guarenteed crit is important, so getting more AD helps there too.
Also it doesnt necessarily cut your damage, it shifts some damage from your AA to your Volley, but that also gives you more lifesteal and more survivability, because of AoE slow.
Sammystorm1 votesIf a tank or bruiser has randuins omen and you only have raw ad their is a good chance that tank or bruiser will be able to soak all the damage you throw at them. Also LW is very cost efficient for its cost and stats it also is very effective against low and high armor targets making it a very valuable buy as a 3rd item especially because tanks will be finishing items right around then too.
DeadXera1 votesTrue, but Essence Raver is going to give the Ashe the ability to have her Q always on, so even if it takes longer to kill the tank, they don't actually get to do anything to her because she can kite them all day.
Sammystorm1 votesHowever ashe doesn't particularly have mana problems. Out of all 4 of her skills 3 require mana. Out of those 3 both frost shot and enchanted crystal arrow will exclusively be used in team fights or a skirmish.. Volley has a very small cost for what it does. It only cost 60 mana and easily is spammable. Frist shot is easily the biggest mana sink at 8 mana per attack then enchanted crystal arrow at 100 mana. However ashe's mana pool is quite large at most points in the game. Scaling up to 827 at lvl 18 with no items. So assuming you have 0 mana regen and have 1.5 atks per second and a team fight last 10 seconds. 100 mana for ult. 2 volleys at 120 mana and 15 attacks for 120 mana for frost shot. you only would use roughly 340 mana In a ideal case for a 10 second fight. The reality is you will use less mana for the same period of time. So you have over half your mana pool left for any post team fight skirmish. Or alternatively you could go into a team fight at half mana and easily have your passive for 10 seconds. If you are buying Reaver for the mana passive ashe doesn't particularly need it. If you are buying it for damage or life steal their are better options.
Toothless Lion4 votesIt's time sensitive team based video game... and your teammates don't have time to instruct you as to why you wasted 3200 gold on a sub optimal item.
Fury and Emperor4 votesTo be fair, with lolking and various guide sites around, there is no excuse for not building optimally.
Cale0173 votes[{quoted}](name=Afgudins Fráuja,realm=EUW,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=bAAlK1fX,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-01-18T13:10:27.133+0000)
To be fair, with lolking and various guide sites around, there is no excuse for not building optimally.
Except for natural experimentation perhaps?
Duke Anax2 votesOptimally is questionable anway.
Everyone firmly beliefed Runaan is total trash untill the Koreans startet experimenting on Kayle.
Darkshade241 votesBut yet, it was highly ranked Koreans experimenting on it, not low elo NA players. So honestly, unless your Diamond 1+, and truly understand how this game works, stick to the "optimal" guides found on Lolking, etc. There is a reason it's optimal, and that's because someone(highly ranked, not low elo) tried it out and found the most success with it.
Duke Anax2 votesGive you a little secret: I build Runaan on Kayle long before the Koreans did and I was getting a lot of flag for it until then. Afterwards everyone was like "you build her with Runaan, right?"
CaesarFlickerman3 votesI will never be able to properly process how people let other strangers behind a computer screen have such an impact on them.
This literally blows my mind.
tempname129c3 votes
1/18/2 25 cs @ 30+ minutes
player1: "dw ashe, you're doing just great" ashe: "ty :D" player3: "sry i died again... fun game tho" player4: "sry lagging" player5: "fucking bullshit ashe with a bullshit build and this stupid team gg we lost" players1-4: "oh cmon at least play we can still win dont be so toxic"
player5: "see why I didnt even want to bother with this match? I knew we would lose!"
players 1-4: "you're so toxic. all report player5. /reported. enjoy your ban"
rinse/repeat until:
Then you make a new account and re-buy everything so that RG can buy more uranium because:
Aboylova922 votesThen there's always the case of trying to give constructive criticism, like "oh hey adc you might want to build bork because of the health stacking they have." "F*ck off, don't tell me how to play the game."
Some people are just douches, and will have a negative comment no matter how you approach it.
Raxicor2 votesYeah, a lot of people are afraid of trying new things. Which can cost them the game if they build the same 6 items per game. I prefer building for the situation over any inflexible guide. Then again, I don't play much in ranked so there's a lot less pressure from teammates to build "correctly".
Shinjiro Aragaki2 votesThere are also people that don't know how to actually build certain champions but will tell you that you have a bad build. My first time playing Rek'Sai, I did what I usually do. Analyze the champs stats and abilities and think "hmn, what items would work well with this champ" so I built um... trying to remember. It ended up being mostly a high ranked build for her besides 2 items that I swapped out because I added like an attack speed item to her or something. And then this person on the team kept telling me I wasn't building enough attack speed on her and kept telling me I was bad. I didn't have time to go check builds for her so I was like "I mean, she has attack speed as her passive on her ult so I think I probably have a decent amount, but alright I'll add some more". And I actually did well in the match, but of course this person (who eventually told us he was a little kid and laughed because he was "doing better than us old people") kept trash talking me and my friends all game and using hate speech and whatnot (I like to think he got banned in the end) and upon looking at all the high-ranking builds for Rek I discovered that like hardly any of the "high ranking builds" for her have a lot of attack speed items, and I actually had built 4/6 items for one of the top rated builds for her.
So sometimes someone telling you that your build sucks doesn't mean anything. A lot of times they may just flat out not actually know how that champ works.
QuantumLight2 votesi go essence reaver on draven, ppl on my team started yelling at me (i was 2-2) "noob draven gg"
get triple imediatly afterwards 2v3, end game 12-3 they surrendered at 25.
SCREW YOU STUPID JUDGMENTALS ALL BUILDS CAN WORK
