PSA: Dont surrender in ranked

Trendition·Apr 14, 2015·31 votes·3,921 views

I've been in too many teams where people just assume its GG. Don't surrender unless everyone on your team is looking at over a minute death timer and the enemy team is hacking away at your nexus turrets. Seriously stop surrendering!

I've won 4v5 games I've won games where they had all of their turrets and we were just down to the nexus I've won 3v5 games! I've won games where my jungle was a troll I've won games where everyone on my team fed

Just stop surrendering! You are giving up LP to the enemy team. Things can drastically change when the end game comes. When its normals surrender away! but in Ranked I am in it to win and I hate being the only one who voted for the game to go on.

74 Comments

JalkanApr 14, 20159 votes

I wouldn't surrender if at 20 minutes it's 2-8, unless my team was trash talking each other, and goes on massive tilt. You won't win with those teams, so that's one time you might want to surrender in a ranked game.

TrenditionApr 14, 20158 votes

I agree but I've noticed that if theres a throw by the enemy team your entire team shuts up and focuses. Its kinda a beauty.

Reynard the ƒoxApr 14, 20157 votes

It's a waste of time dicking around for an extra 20+ minutes on the hope that they might throw.

I'd much rather just call it and try again with a non-retarded team.

TrenditionApr 14, 20154 votes

But you are still giving up LP. When you win with a "non-retarded team" you are back where you started with your first game. Even more wasted time

Reynard the ƒoxApr 14, 20153 votes

When I lose with the original retarded team I'm behind where I was when I started, so getting back to where I was is the first step in moving forward. It's a numbers game.

You don't stay in when you're dealt a 2-7; you fold and wait for the next hand.

KarlyrApr 14, 20151 votes

In before people wins game that are 2-28 golbal kills.

ANYTHING can be turned around. If you are playing ranked, then play to win. That's what makes the difference between gold and plat.

BluePolarizerApr 15, 20151 votes

from my experience the plat 5's spam surrender.

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

I wouldn't consider ANY 5th division to be really part of their league.

Silver 5, Gold 5, Plat 5 and (especially) Diamond 5. These people might just have reached their objective/got lucky to get there and doesn't care anymore about their games.

Sonny1998Apr 14, 20156 votes

I once won a 1v4 game (not ranked) I was twitch and by the 15 min mark, all of my team left, I was 7/0/3 by that time and figured I keep going. The 35 min mark I was 47/4/3, both bases had all turrets down (not counting nexus turrets), they killed me again, I was about to give up, but they went for baron, I was like "lol wtf", I went to their base after I respawned and soloed their nexus turret and destroyed their nexus.

I wanted to give up but never did, I don't surrender

BluePolarizerApr 14, 20154 votes

I've won games where enemy ADC was hitting our Nexus and we were all dead. I believe one game we didn't even take top outer.

I mean, shit, if that's not a comeback, I don't know what is.

Just won a game where my ADC fed FB before minions even spawned and then died again when he got to lane, top was 2-5 and mid was 1-6 at one point, and top was raging.

disregardableApr 14, 20154 votes

I've lost 5v4 games. I've lost games where we had a 20,000 gold advantage and all of their turrets taken. I've lost 5v3 games. I've lost games where my ADC was 16/0 10 minutes in. I've lost games where my entire team had a positive kda and good farm.

I'd rather just give up a lost game than make myself miserable sitting through it, thanks. Happiness>Rating.

Big HansApr 14, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=JFJgR7qb,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-14T05:01:04.319+0000)

I've lost 5v4 games. I've lost games where we had a 20,000 gold advantage and all of their turrets taken. I've lost 5v3 games. I've lost games where my ADC was 16/0 10 minutes in. I've lost games where my entire team had a positive kda and good farm.

I'd rather just give up a lost game than make myself miserable sitting through it, thanks. Happiness>Rating.

Im confused about what point you are trying to make. You are pretty much making a case why nobody should surrender games....

KarlyrApr 14, 20151 votes

I've lost games where I was winning my games hard to a surrender. I've lost games where we had 4 drakes and the ennemy team none to a surrender. I've lost games where the ennemy team wasn't teamfighting properly to a surrender.

You want me to keep going or you got the point ?

There is no reason not to try hard in ranked. Ranked is meant to try hard until the very end.

Did the nexus blow up ? Then there's still a chance to win.

KillstradoApr 15, 20151 votes

You didn't explain your point still lol but my interpretation is that you're happier with surrendering and giving up than actually working hard and putting in effort to reach a common goal of winning with your teammates so you can feel good about yourself for defeating an enemy team who is after the same goal. Man I bet your achievements in real life a staggering lololol

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

Ranked is meant to be a competitive environnement. Surrendering is not competitive at all. Games in solo queue can be turned ratter easily. 1 person DC or gets caught out of position and a comeback can be enabled.

In normal games, I am the first one to say, let's just surrender the game will be hard and far from being fun. But in ranked, the difference is 20LP.

A free win is when you see "The ennemy team has agreed to surrender." in a game that is still winnable for them because your Master Yi refuse any kind of communication and 2 of your teammates are too busy typing with him trying to be able to close the game turning the game in a partial 2v5

And thanks for the free insult. I'll make sure to keep it in reserve for someone else (NOT).

DeloricVIApr 14, 20153 votes

Not to mention it's been said many times that you lose more lp from surrendering. People told me that I'd have more time for games where I could actually win to get more lp, but they don't understand that some people can't play league games back to back because they have real-life responsibilities, so if I don't lose as much lp per loss, that would be great, thanks.

EleshakaiApr 14, 20153 votes

Surrendering is just an admission that you don't want to improve. The hard games - win or lose - are the ones you learn from, the ones that help you get better. The easy wins just make you overconfident.

And if you can't enjoy losing in this game, you might want to find a different game to play because it is going to happen ~50% of the time, so just get used to it and have fun with the game.

If everyone was able to just enjoy the game we wouldn't need leaverbuster 'cause nobody would be so emotionally scarred over a leave...

blueberrypancakeApr 14, 20151 votes

Words of wisdom

PubgamerAUApr 15, 20151 votes

If it only happened 50% of the time, I'd be happy.

EleshakaiApr 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If it only happened 50% of the time, I'd be happy.

If losing happens more than 50% it means you're higher in rank than you deserve, sadly. It will equalize eventually. Focus on becoming a better player and it will equalize sooner.

PubgamerAUApr 15, 20151 votes

Actually, not neccessarily. You can go on tilt and matchmaking will start giving you less and less LP for wins. I've been at a point several times where I've won 3 games, and a single loss just negates all that LP gain.

So no, you don't have to have a 50% win rate to stay in the same spot.

EleshakaiApr 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually, not neccessarily. You can go on tilt and matchmaking will start giving you less and less LP for wins. I've been at a point several times where I've won 3 games, and a single loss just negates all that LP gain.

So no, you don't have to have a 50% win rate to stay in the same spot.

If you lost that many games then you'd need to win approximately as many games to equalize your MMR. You're already at a deficit, so first you have to equalize the losses, then have a 50% from then and you'll stay equal.

But what I was saying is that if you lose more games than you win, you're higher in the standings than you belong. Eventually you'll equalize and hit that point where you win/lose approximately equal games.

OHPhIME74VApr 14, 20152 votes

I've noticed more and more that if I just keep my mouth shut, farm up, encourage objectives, team fights, etc. Give positive feedback ("Nice job Riven!!") even though she's 1-5-0 with low cs, people start to focus on the game and less on the emotion. It's really easy to come back late game, all it takes is one good team fight. Don't give up!

blueberrypancakeApr 14, 20151 votes

This is exactly what I do

Even though I'm a type of player who has on and off games where I do very well or go absolute trash the games I win are based on the ones I support my team in chat

ZergReapApr 14, 20152 votes

First game of ranked this season my jungler never connected, we won.

Whenever people talk about not giving up I refer back to a Caitlyn game I played where the score was 4-27 AT 20 MINUTES 0-4 IN TOWERS. 4-27 @ the 20 min mark and no one even started a surrender vote. We came back and slowly won. I had the best KDA, but my team made it possible <3.

just look at the kill feed/gold graph

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1775683272/205344811?tab=overview

blueberrypancakeApr 14, 20152 votes

Holy crap that was a comeback

You also accidentally got rank 3 ult at lvl 17

lol xD

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

Upgrade your trinket. NOOB. Jk ;) Nice one.

Sirin GioroApr 14, 20152 votes

I've lost games when we were really fucking ahead in dragons, turrets, kills until our mid and jungle started raging at each other. holy crap was I salty.

junglerboy16Apr 14, 20152 votes

More importantly, playing a losing match is excellent practice for intense/very close games where if either team messes up they lose (because it works on your judgement skills in the same way, where you have a very limited window of error). Just treat every fight like winning it will win the game, and before you know it your team starts cleaning up fights and you're back in the game.

PikmintsApr 15, 20152 votes

That's the mentality I have already when going into ranked. What I can't stand though are people who do all of the following:

Say the entire game that we should surrender
Win the game
Say he'd rather have lost a 25 minute ranked game than won a 50 minute one

This has happened multiple times and I cannot understand how stubborn someone has to be to not admit that they were wrong about surrendering.

Joe DreddApr 14, 20151 votes

Cry harder dude. I'd rather ff and move on to a new game than sit there for 20+ minutes trying to stall and turtle for a 20% chance at winning. and the only reason you won a 3v5 was because the enemy team was beyond trash.

IxlinApr 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Cry harder dude. I'd rather ff and move on to a new game than sit there for 20+ minutes trying to stall and turtle for a 20% chance at winning. and the only reason you won a 3v5 was because the enemy team was beyond trash.

Who broke your heart? WHO HURT YOU?

Joe DreddApr 15, 20152 votes

No one did. I just hate people who are like "hurr durr ranked never surrender"

Drunk RummateApr 15, 20151 votes

Lets say there's 10 games I am losing atrociously, like 3 kills to 18 and outer turrets dead past 20 minutes.

By your logic, I should stick those games out because I might win. Lets say you're right. Lets say I win 1 of those 10 games. Great.

So I just spent 15+ extra minutes per game to win 1 game that I would have lost. That's 2 hours and 30 minutes of my life, or more. Gone. And I think I'm being generous saying 1 in 10 games from a deficit that massive.

So no, surrendering should most certainly be an option. It makes me sad when people don't when they're losing by a huge margin. My time is worth more than that.

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

But by winning these 10 games you would be 2 whole division higher than the MMR you are currently at. (losing 10 games makes you drop a division, so if you would win them, you would be 1 divison higher than if you never played these games. So 2 divisions higher)

So in a sense, you are saving time because you wouldn't have to play these extra games to get your elo back.

PubgamerAUApr 15, 20152 votes

Except you're NOT going to win those 10 games. In his scenario, you're going to win ONE of those games, at best. You are not going to win every game that you're losing badly. Hell, you're not even going to win many games that you're losing badly. You will be lucky to win 1 in 15-20 games that you're losing 3-18 with 3-4 turrets dead by 20 minutes.

That's just how solo queue is.

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

Even if you win 1 of these games. JUST ONE. you basically erased 2 of these losses. 2 of them.

so 15 minutes for +40LP meaning you have to play 2 less games to get to the same point (that you would have to win) meaning 1h30.

Trying until the end. A misplay/DC/Rager happens really quickly. If you clicked on ranked, you clicked a button that means, "I want to win". Then try until the nexus blew up.

Drunk RummateApr 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Even if you win 1 of these games. JUST ONE. you basically erased 2 of these losses. 2 of them.

so 15 minutes for +40LP meaning you have to play 2 less games to get to the same point (that you would have to win) meaning 1h30.

Trying until the end. A misplay/DC/Rager happens really quickly. If you clicked on ranked, you clicked a button that means, "I want to win". Then try until the nexus blew up.

2 losses erased at the cost of 2 hours and 30 minutes of misery, because I'm certainly not having fun in those games where I'm down 20 kills and most of my turrets to the enemy team.

2 hours and 30 minutes is 5 new games I could have played instead. With your 20 LP per game metric thats 100 potential LP, and is worth far more than the 40 that you're boasting here.

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

You missed the point. If you win 1 of these games you erase 2 losses. 15 minutes more into 1 game or 1h30 of making and doing 2 new games to cover the loss you just had.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5-iJUuPWis

Well If you want to auto-lose a possible turnover it's your choice. W/E. I just hope I don't get you in one of my games.

Drunk RummateApr 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You missed the point. If you win 1 of these games you erase 2 losses. 15 minutes more into 1 game or 1h30 of making and doing 2 new games to cover the loss you just had.

Well If you want to auto-lose a possible turnover it's your choice. W/E. I just hope I don't get you in one of my games.

No, you missed the point.

You aren't going to win every game when you're behind by 15-20 kills and several turrets at 20 minutes. It's statistically improbable. So maybe you're efficient one out of ten times (personally I think that's very generous), but that's still a **huge **amount of time sunk for a single win, or 40 LP swing as you like to say. Vastly more than just 15 minutes are spent to gain that. That doesn't even include the fact that in order to win from a huge deficit like that, games generally have to drag on for 45 minutes or more in order for everyone to reach level 18 and full build for the huge respawn timers.

I think it's very silly that you would talk about LP saved in an instance where statistically you will gain more LP per time spent if you surrender and move on to the next game immediately.

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

You are not playing to win if you surrender a game that have (even the slightest chance) of being turned over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5-iJUuPWis

Drunk RummateApr 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You are not playing to win if you surrender a game that have (even the slightest chance) of being turned over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5-iJUuPWis

No, I'm not playing to win solely for the purpose of winning.

I'm playing to win while having fun, because this is a video game and a hobby.

I'm playing in a way that I don't feel like I've wasted my time, because statistically I will climb the ladder faster by surrendering games where I am significantly behind at 20-30 minutes.

I completely prescribe to the belief that you should not surrender if you are behind by a small margin, but there IS a line that should be drawn and that's why the surrender feature exists in the first place.

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

Then what are you doing in ranked.

Drunk RummateApr 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then what are you doing in ranked.

As I said, you gain LP faster by surrendering those games where you lose the vast majority of the time.

Take some time to log games where you are down by 15 kills and 3 turrets (or worse) by 20 minutes. Play to the bitter end as you so enjoy, and write down whether you lost or won. Write down how long the game took total to end and consider that you could have been playing a new game in the time past 20 minutes instead. I promise you that surrendering is more time efficient than playing a game that you will statistically lose the vast majority of the time. It's not intuitive, but you will gain ELO faster by giving up sometimes.

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

You lose LP faster for sure.

PubgamerAUApr 15, 20152 votes

Great, you erased 2 losses, 7 more are left.

You're really bad at doing math.

KarlyrApr 15, 20151 votes

and admitting that you are at your real elo, you also won 10 other games. oh wait. you are magically at 10W-7L

PubgamerAUApr 15, 20152 votes

We started with 10 games. Where are you getting 17 from?

The argument was that if you stick it out for every single one of those lost 10 games, you could come away with a win from one of them, erasing 2 of the lost games. That means in terms of LP, instead of 10 lost games worth, you have 8 lost games worth.

Meanwhile, by surrendering those 10 lost games early, using the time I've gained from not wasting it in lost causes, I've managed to win another 5 games, erasing a total of 10 lost games of LP.

Surrender @ 20 minutes > Losing at 40 minutes with a chance of a win every now and then.

Before you ask, I calculated the extra time by basing surrenders from 20 minute games and non-surrenders from 40 minute games(standard game length when not surrendering, give or take 5 minutes either way).

40 minutes over 10 games is 400 minutes. 20 minutes over 10 games is 200 minutes. I have a spare 200 minutes of extra games to play because I surrendered, while you're losing 9 games @ 40 minutes and winning 1 @ 40 minutes.

EleshakaiApr 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lets say there's 10 games I am losing atrociously, like 3 kills to 18 and outer turrets dead past 20 minutes.

By your logic, I should stick those games out because I might win. Lets say you're right. Lets say I win 1 of those 10 games. Great.

So I just spent 15+ extra minutes per game to win 1 game that I would have lost. That's 2 hours and 30 minutes of my life, or more. Gone. And I think I'm being generous saying 1 in 10 games from a deficit that massive.

So no, surrendering should most certainly be an option. It makes me sad when people don't when they're losing by a huge margin. My time is worth more than that.

what I am saying is that by TRYING your best in those games, you'll learn a hell of a lot more in that 2 hours and 30 minutes than you would if you surrendered and moved on to a new game. And that is why surrendering is such a bad option to take, you lose out on the opportunity to learn from those games.

Also... EVERY MINUTE you spend on this game is wasted. Literally. Every single one. If you can't enjoy the losses... you might as well quit the game because approximately 50% of your games WILL be losses. That's just reality.