The Last Whisper - An ADC's Early, Mid, or Late Game Item?

Mozi Godsend·Jan 1, 2015·2 votes·21,792 views

Hello, slightly new to league. I haven't done any extensive testing, mostly just math on paper. and mostly reading about LW on the Last Whisper WIKI. It looks like it isn't gold efficient until AT LEAST mid game. against an ADC, which would generally have around ~50 armor mid game, you'd need at least 180 attack to break even on gold efficiency. From what i see, it wouldnt be any good until a 3rd or 4th item ? maybe after Infinity Edge, Blood Thurster, Phantom Dancer, then Last whisper ?

A friend told me he usually get LW as his 5th item because at that point it gives him a big spike in power and then he goes for a Guardian Angel or some other defensive item.

any tips?

19 Comments

RiotPhreakJan 2, 20157 votes

Here's how the items stack up for about 80% of the AD Carries. Hopefully this'll help you make your item-buying decisions.

Critical Strike is the single most under-coster/under-represented stat out there. Items like Infinity Edge and Phantom Dancer/Statikk Shiv are GIGANTIC damage increases, so you will always look to buy both these items. If you care about your basic attack damage, you want both of these and you want them early. Most pros build IE/SS or IE/PD as their first two big items every game.

The big-ticket life steal items (Bloodthirster, Blade of the Ruined King) are reasonably strong damage items, but you get what you pay for. The gold you sink into life steal isn't sunk into damage, so you're getting understandably less damage per gold than an item like Phantom Dancer, Last Whisper, Infinity Edge, etc. This is pretty much just straightforward logic, but it's worth keeping in mind: You get what you pay for in extra durability by buying lifesteal instead of increased damage. Understandably, Ruined King is a bit higher on the Damage - Durability slider.

Last Whisper is just fine as a third item. After IE/PD, you're basically saying "Okay do I want life steal (BT or BotRK) or do I want more damage (Last Whisper). It's actually efficient 25-30 minutes into the game, because you WILL be hitting front-line tanky targets, and even against squishies, it's better than you might think. The Chinese Marksmen at the 2014 World Championship typically built Last Whisper third, optimizing their damage output at the expense of durability.

There is one huge caveat with Last Whisper though: Part of the reason the item is so good is because Armor Penetration is the best multiplier in the game for physical damage skills. If your champion doesn't deal meaningful physical damage though abilities (Corki and Kog'Maw primarily) you actually don't have a reason to buy Last Whisper. It actually falls beneath Blade of the Ruined King (which also provides lifesteal) making it a fairly senseless purchase on those champions.

So there are basically two main builds I see from AD Carries:

Infinity Edge -> Berserker's Greaves -> Phantom Dancer or Shiv -> Last Whisper -> Bloodthirster -> Durability item. and Infinity Edge -> Greaves -> PD/Shiv -> Bloodthirster -> Last Whisper

There are some other builds with Trinity Force and stuff as well, and the math gets more complex there, but following those two builds should work for most of your games. You also may find yourself needing something like Quicksilver Sash (vs. Warwick, Malzahar, Zed) and those can be slipped in mid-build as well.

bombingbenJan 3, 20151 votes

Hey Phreak i have a question for u i know that some rioters play with people for there 1000th game would you by chance play with me in mine? Thanks for reading this message appreciate it =D -bombingben summoner 31

BrofessorFJan 3, 20151 votes

The only champ i really ever by LW on early is ezreal, but that is because of his heavy reliance on his q earlier on in the game, usually for ezreal ill go dorans, and get some combination of t1 boots, sheen and just the vamp sceptre on first back, then finish trinity, then im trying to finish boots and get last whisper

The ObsydianJan 3, 20151 votes

I like playing Miss Fortune as ADC and sometimes I do indeed build IE -> PD/SS -> LW. However, I found that in some cases I prefer going BT -> brutalizer -> LW, when in game vs armor heavy tanks or when behind in lane. I do this versus tanky toplaners/junglers like nasus/irelia/rammus etc. I sometimes do it in lane when I'm just falling behind in lane fast, and start vamp scepter early for the sustain. Also, the lifesteal just synergizes very well with the on hit application of Double Up, which can proc twice if hitting multiple enemies (this can be a minion for all I care). You can get the berserkers greaves for attack speed, together with the w, to give you the attack speed you need, buy a red pot to get 30% lifesteal and your ult shreds through anything.

A lot can be said about how the IE -> statikk -> LW does more damage, but ive tried both builds extensively and found that they both do very well. Any opinions/advice on this?

Obsy

AtheosisXJan 4, 20151 votes

Does this rather boring cookie-cutter way of building ADCs not give you guys pause?

4nth0l0gyJan 4, 20151 votes

Hey Phreak, just out of curiosity: when'd you decide to be a marksman main? What made you want to? I always thought you were a diehard jungler DrMundo

KOREA Blaze 420Jan 1, 20152 votes

you'll generally always want to build IE into PD or Shiv then lifesteal or LW, and the other of the two, depending on how much armor stacking the enemy team has and specifically if you cannot do damage to anything other than a tank

TehNACHOJan 2, 20152 votes

It's a mid game item. If you do the actual math for DPS, instead of relying on "gold efficiency" values for stats, you'll find it's a 3rd or 4th optimal item for many AD champs, and this is towards targets with as low armor as possible.

disregardableJan 1, 20151 votes

I prefer Bork. I only build LW when there's 3 tanks.

balbraakselJan 1, 20151 votes

I always get it when the enemy buys Thornmail or a target of priority/that I can't ignore exceeds 100 armor I start building towards the Last Whisper.

DeclinedJan 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I always get it when the enemy buys Thornmail or a target of priority/that I can't ignore exceeds 100 armor I start building towards the Last Whisper.

Roughly what this guy said, untill they have around 100 armor or so, it just isn't worth buying LW.

Linna ExcelJan 1, 20151 votes

Get somewhere between your second and 4th finished item. If they are tanky and rushing tank items, get it 2nd. If they aren't it can wait.

Depending on who you are playing, finish your bork or BF sword item first and then check to see what the other team is building. If they aren't building tank, pick up a BF sword item or bork (take the other choice of your first pick) next. If they still aren't building tank, go with one of the 3 zeal items, doesn't matter which one. Then build a LW.

Somewhere in there you need to get boots and maybe boots 2. Don't forget the odd ward.

TabsJan 1, 20151 votes

Most common as 3rd major item. For adcs

RädJan 1, 20151 votes

I find LW to be an incredibly powerful item for an adc, and should certainly have some priority over other items, but I find it hard to fully judge when you should build it.

With my experience as an ADC (I do not main this role, however I do enjoy it) it is rather situational as to when you should plan to build LW. I have never ever seen it valuable to build this item in the early game as an ADC, but after you examine enemy build paths, mid game is where you should start examining when to purchase a LW.

With my experience at hand I try to value sustain a little bit more in the early game, than shredding tanks with the percentage of armor pen. I will try and give you an idea in terms of where I decide to build LW because at some point or another, it will be in my build.

Depending on the type of ADC I am playing, my first item actually varies. Normal ADC meta insists buying a BF Sword item first (i.e; Blood Thirster, Infinity Edge) But you do have circumstances where say a Vayne's Priority build path insists you buy BOTRK first, or say. Corki, who thrives off a Trinity Force for first buy. Those are all pretty standard and most ADC's obviously know this.

It's mid game and your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th items that really take some thinking. (excluding boots which are always prioritized to finish right after your first item)

A player like myself, who examines team and enemy build paths, I like to use my situational thinking to decide what item to build next. My 2nd item varies, depending on the champion I am playing, and whether or not I am ahead, so-so, or even behind. If I am ahead of the enemy ADC and I strategize well, I will pick up a Vamp Sceptre for the extra damage, and the life steal, and will prioritize a Zeal item for the attack speed, finishing the life steal item afterwards. If I am so-so or behind, I will always finish the life steal item first. Playing a champion with AS buffs like Graves and Tristana, I will actually build the lifesteal item first regardless.

Now at this point in time you have a minimum of 2 or even 3 items and your tier 2 boots. This is where you want to examine enemy team builds for armor and snowballing champions who are trying to survive by building armor from a fed ADC.

In my experience of playing the ADC role, I have seen it incredibly efficient to purchase a LW anywhere from your 3rd or 4th item and finish your build off with whatever else you need and a. GA.

FantasySniperJan 1, 20151 votes

I like to get item 3035 by ≈25 minutes at least, so it's really a mid-late game item. By that time, you have at least a item 3031 and it becomes worth it, or you're so far behind you're likely going to lose anyways.

RiotPhreakJan 2, 20153 votes

That's a decent rule of thumb, but keep in mind that no matter how well or poorly you're doing, you basically always want to wait until after two major items are completed before thinking about LW. All the Armor Pen is going to do is multiply whatever damage you currently have, and if you don't have any damage yet, there's nothing to multiply.

kayakninjaJan 2, 20152 votes

As Graves, I sometimes like to go IE -> Zeal -> LW -> finish SS since he gets so much damage from his abilities and already has the AS steroid . Is that a bad, then?

KiserSaySoJan 2, 20151 votes

I purchase this as my 4th item but my champ of choice does wonders with armor pen. I get brutalizer, boots, blade of ruined king, shiv then last whisper. after which i complete to black cleaver and then trinity force.

Its build that keeps the champion relevant all game.

TrueShrikeJan 3, 20151 votes

Depending on how much your making and how late your building your armor pen item, I typically find the black cleaver more effective once you have over 1.2 Attack speed or so as you are stacking flat penetration which unless they have 180ish or so Armor seems to work better. You do want the speed however to get the stacks. Bit more costly however as well. So Id say LW is mid game -- switch to Cleaver late game or just wait til 4th item or 5th and go cleaver. Cleaver tends to be later game but can also help teammates as well so I like it more as anyone doing damage as you stack the penetration does more physical. And its funny if you find someone that has no armor or so little that you are almost doing true damage per shot.