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Champion Pool Feedback

EkkoFroffles··1 votes·515 views

It's now been 3 weeks since I last played ranked. My last 2 matches snuffed out my spirit entirely. I've been using this time wisely, though, using the Champion Mastery system as a motivator to do what I know I should've done already, which is not just pick a champion pool, but also spam those champions until I know them all intimately. Up until recently, it was basically Garen or bust.

Now, though, I'm solidifying my champion pool, one champion at a time. It's still a work in progress, but here's where I'm at with it right now. Fringe champions are ones I don't have enough experience with to include in my official champion pool, but who I think could easily make it were I to devote more time to them. They aren't the only possibilities, but I wanted to keep the list relatively brief and so I only highlighted the major ones.

Top: Darius Ekko Garen MonkeyKing Fringe: Heimerdinger Lissandra Malphite Shyvana

Mid: Ekko Malzahar Fringe: Heimerdinger Lissandra Leblanc Lux Zed

ADC: Graves Varus Fringe: Caitlyn

Support: Braum Ekko Nautilus Sona Fringe: Blitzcrank Leona

Jungle: Amumu MonkeyKing Fringe: Ekko Nautilus Sejuani Vi

Suggestions? I'm currently working on getting Level 5 with Amumu . So far, I have Garen , Nautilus , MonkeyKing , and Ekko maxed out, and Braum and Malzahar at Level 4.

16 Comments

Code2 votes

Ekko is not a support and not a good top right now.

Learn a more utility/damage support, and one of the healers. (Zyra/Annie - Raka/Sona). Your adc picks are bad in the meta right now, I'd learn Sivir since she'll always be solid with her ult. Caitlyn got buffed so get her out of fringe. Work on your zed or another AD mid, always good to have one, and maybe get Lux or another ap out of fringe. Something with more mobility (LB pre nerf) would work well. Learn an AP top. Rumble or move Liss there.

Good job on expanding your pool, now just learn to better CS/get objectives/improve decisions/snowball other lanes and you'll eventually learn to carry as a whole.

EkkoFroffles1 votes

He offers about as much in "support" capabilities as a Lux or Annie. AKA, he's an APC masquerading as a support. One that can deal plenty of damage even on support gold, and one that can shift into another APC if the situation calls/allows for it. I don't intend to pick him over Nautilus or Braum, unless the matchup really favors someone in that vein. I also am under no illusion that I'll be succeeding with Ekko support all the way into gold and higher. But for where I'm at (B5), just about anything can work, especially when it's something unexpected that catches your opponents off guard. Honestly, though, he's a bit of a place holder for kill-lane support until I can put some time into Lux in that role.

Sona, I honestly forgot to add. She was the first support I found success with, but she's since fallen way out of favor for me due to finding Nautilus and Braum, the first two supports I feel fit me 100%. Annie, I'm trash with both mid and support. Likewise, Zyra seems beyond me. Soraka, though, is a possibility.

As far as ADCs are concerned, with how weak an ADC I am, and how rarely I ADC (3 times in 200+ matches this season), anything to do with them is dead last on my priority list. Graves was the first ADC I could do ADC-like things with, and Varus the second. Outside of them, Caitlyn is the only one I can manage to not be a complete liability with. I've tried every ADC at this point, minus Quinn, and the only other possibilities I see are Twitch and Ashe.

Lastly, for mid lane, I plan on maxing out LeBlanc, Zed, or Ahri next. Or maybe even Fizz, since I have been trying to learn more champions with position flexibility, and he can go top, mid, and jungle with varying levels of effectiveness. Ekko has me thinking seriously of other assassins for the first time. I'd had some success with Zed and Ahri prior to his release, but for me Ekko did for the assassin role what Warwick did for jungling, he helped ease me into things, serving the role of a learner champ that allowed me to lay the groundwork and to survive those early mistakes that would ruin me on other champions.

P.S. Sorry I've yet to hit you up for a match after you said you'd be willing to give me some live feedback on my jungling. When I saw you were plat, I admittedly was concerned that you'd play one match with me, deem me a lost cause, and unfriend me. It doesn't help that I'm woefully out of practice as a jungler. Prior to last night, hadn't jungled Amumu in 3 weeks, since the 2 matches that ruined ranked for me. I'd jungled other champions (i.e., Wukong, Ekko) during those 3 weeks, but Amumu's the one I want to hone in on the most. He's a top-tier tank jungler, like Sejuani, yet I think I've seen him banned once in my ranked matches.

Code1 votes

{quoted}

He offers about as much in "support" capabilities as a Lux or Annie. AKA, he's an APC masquerading as a support. One that can deal plenty of damage even on support gold, and one that can shift into another APC if the situation calls/allows for it. I don't intend to pick him over Nautilus or Braum, unless the matchup really favors someone in that vein. I also am under no illusion that I'll be succeeding with Ekko support all the way into gold and higher. But for where I'm at (B5), just about anything can work, especially when it's something unexpected that catches your opponents off guard. Honestly, though, he's a bit of a place holder for kill-lane support until I can put some time into Lux in that role.

Sona, I honestly forgot to add. She was the first support I found success with, but she's since fallen way out of favor for me due to finding Nautilus and Braum, the first two supports I feel fit me 100%. Annie, I'm trash with both mid and support. Likewise, Zyra seems beyond me. Soraka, though, is a possibility.

As far as ADCs are concerned, with how weak an ADC I am, and how rarely I ADC (3 times in 200+ matches this season), anything to do with them is dead last on my priority list. Graves was the first ADC I could do ADC-like things with, and Varus the second. Outside of them, Caitlyn is the only one I can manage to not be a complete liability with. I've tried every ADC at this point, minus Quinn, and the only other possibilities I see are Twitch and Ashe.

Lastly, for mid lane, I plan on maxing out LeBlanc, Zed, or Ahri next. Or maybe even Fizz, since I have been trying to learn more champions with position flexibility, and he can go top, mid, and jungle with varying levels of effectiveness. Ekko has me thinking seriously of other assassins for the first time. I'd had some success with Zed and Ahri prior to his release, but for me Ekko did for the assassin role what Warwick did for jungling, he helped ease me into things, serving the role of a learner champ that allowed me to lay the groundwork and to survive those early mistakes that would ruin me on other champions.

P.S. Sorry I've yet to hit you up for a match after you said you'd be willing to give me some live feedback on my jungling. When I saw you were plat, I admittedly was concerned that you'd play one match with me, deem me a lost cause, and unfriend me. It doesn't help that I'm woefully out of practice as a jungler. Prior to last night, hadn't jungled Amumu in 3 weeks, since the 2 matches that ruined ranked for me. I'd jungled other champions (i.e., Wukong, Ekko) during those 3 weeks, but Amumu's the one I want to hone in on the most. He's a top-tier tank jungler, like Sejuani, yet I think I've seen him banned once in my ranked matches.

No problem man, hit me up when you're ready. If you were trying out/on my ranked team I might be harsh, but with context in mind, I'll be brutally honest but only to your benefit. Every mistake I see I'll tell you about, big or small, but without that kind of feedback its a difficult role to learn, even moreso when you consider how dynamic the role really is.

Roaranor2 votes

There isn't much flexibilty in terms of team comps with what you have now for your hard lineups, mostly because a lot of them fill the same jobs and suffer from the same weaknesses. Going based on this list alone (since it seems like the champions you actually want to play), here are my recommendations:

Top: Shift Lissandra in for Darius. Darius and Garen fill the same role of off-damage tank with an execution ult. The biggest different being that Darius specializes more in damage while Garen is more sustain. Not that Darius is bad (you can leave him there if you want and add Liss), but Lissandra fills a lot of the gaps in this role. Strong AP damage, Anti-Ranged Top laner, Hard CC and reliable gap closer, flexibility in build path (can build tanky and still do damage, or go more damage oriented and still be a threat)

Mid: Regardless of how well you do/don't play Ekko, he's a relatively new champ going through his immediate post-release balance phase, meaning he's a bit unreliable (ex they shift his intended playstyle, kit, numbers to something unfavorable leaving you without much time to adjust). That being said, you should have more than just Malz as a reliable pick (who is a really good one imo). Shift in Zed or at least one AD mid laner for when your team leans towards being AP heavy. Go ahead and pop Lissandra in here too, since you're already learning her top. Also, it's nice to have an AP with a strong escape in their kit in a lane with 8 entry points.

ADC: Pick up a hyper carry, or at least someone with hard late-game scaling. Arguably Varus fits this, but he's in a rough spot making him a low tier pick as a result. Vayne, Ashe, Twitch, someone that can fit into late-game oriented comps. Shift in Caitlyn as well. Safe pick, long range making her an ideal poke champ, relevant at all stages despite not being a hyper-carry, most forgiving ADC in terms of positioning (save maybe Ezreal blink but against range, net, and trap this is debatable), no serious counter despite unfavorable matchups.

Support: No comment on Ekko support. Pick up and shift in a sustain support and a poke oriented support. Soraka is easy to pickup, Sona is an alternative to sustain. Janna is a great poke, engage, disengage, and short trade winner. Morg is a poke champ with strong all-in potential (which seems to be what you like to do, my god can you say ham pool)

Jungle: Wukong has taken quite a few indirect nerfs in the form of jungle changes, and Amumu has never had a strong Pre-6. Shift in Vi or pick up someone who does. I'm going to go ahead and say shift in Nautilus or Sejuani as well. Not both, but one or the other. They're both CC monsters, though Nautilus won't see bans nearly as much after support Naut dies down and Sej is in the process of having her kit nerfed (over the span of a few patches now)

Overall, not a bad selection, just need to patch up those holes and you're set.

EkkoFroffles1 votes

Flexibility is something I've been working towards slowly. My first priority was searching out the champions that fit me and the ones that don't. Top lane, if you were to list every possibility, of which there are many, I could go down the list telling you who's worth the time and who'll take too much time and effort for the possible payoff. Lissandra, for instance, I'll admit I've barely played, yet she's such an ideal fit for my play-style that I see no real hurdles to working her into my champion pool minus the obvious one, experience.

Mid: I'm new-ish to assassins (and mid lane in general), as I pointed out in my response to James, so that's why I'm lacking there. I see plenty of champions I could go with to flesh out my mid lane pool, it's just a matter of committing to one or two and putting in the time. But, to give you an idea of where I was at not too long ago (AKA, maybe a month or two ago), I used to take Wukong mid due to having no reliable on-meta choice. It's slowly becoming one of my top priorities, however, as it's like top lane (what I main) with a dash of jungling (i.e., ganking) and a lot of carry potential. So expect this particular pool to expand rapidly.

ADC: See my response to James. Even having 2 ADCs I can play competently with is huge, considering I've only had to ADC 3 out of 200+ times, neither is likely to be banned, and both are relatively safe. Graves has his dash, his smoke screen, and is tanky. And Varus has range plus CC.

Support: Been tempted to try out Morgana support. Did it once a while back, but it didn't go too well and so I've yet to try again, despite knowing I've improved immensely in areas that could make it work for me now.. Plus, she has no hard counters, and I know from experience that she can ruin your day if you're a Nautilus, Leona, Blitzcrank, or any other support built around your engage(s). Sona slipped my mind and would make the pool. Soraka I tried, liked, and proceeded to forget about entirely in favor of other supports that I fell completely in love with (Nautilus, Braum). I actually felt similarly about Nami when I tried her during free week. Two other champions that I can see working for me, at least in theory, are Galio and Orianna. Mostly due to the fact that it's doubtful my opponents will have a wealth of experience facing either.

Jungle: Wukong remains the only jungler I've found I can carry with. Vi and Ekko could both fill that role, but Wukong's my second most played champion after Garen and so he's also a comfort pick. With Sejuani and Nautilus, I can't really decide. I feel so much more at home with Nautilus support than jungle, but my experience with him should help. Sejuani, on the other hand, has more mobility, and that ult of hers will always be a game-changer just like Amumu's, but she has been receiving nerfs as you pointed out.

Roaranor1 votes

To follow up on your reply:

Wukong mid is perfectly viable. As a matter of fact Bruisers with a reliable gap closer going AD mid is perfectly viable. This fell off just a tad bit as a result of meta shifts, but they generally serve as natural counter to most assassins, and can do well against AP mages given you build/play accordingly. Maybe this will help you in guiding your mid pool expansion.

If ADC is a struggle point for you, then I suggest switching Varus out for Caitlyn. Not that Varus is a bad champ, but his lack of mobility and the accessibility limits on his hard cc (it's only through his ult) are what causes him to suffer in this meta, especially in an elo where peeling from your team isn't something you can rely on. If you don't ADC often by any means, and you just want someone you can fill the role with on a competent level, Caitlyn is definitely the way to go. Super straight-forward, super forgiving in terms of lacking ADC knowledge/mechanics; and I'm saying this as a Season 3 ADC main turned all-arounder with over 500 games on Caitlyn alone. Of course, if you want to go for Graves with Caitlyn as a backup, I have no objections there. Varus is just soooo team reliant, that you won't even see Varus mains recommend you play Varus in Solo Q.

As for Support/Jungle, you seem like you have a plan here, and that's awesome. I just want to reiterate. Having a heavy emphasis on champs that you love to play and fit your playstyle is a wonderful thing, and there's nothing wrong with playing them as a comfort pick. The idea here is to find a few more champs that aren't hard to pick-up/learn that you can play in the moments where your loves are just too far away from what's ideal in the moment. (Ex. I've been wanting to play ADC Twitch a lot more as he's always been a champ I've loved to play, but I can recognize that Twitch into a Draven/Leona lane is suicide and that I should fall back to Caitlyn, Graves, or someone with a much safer early game). That being said, you seem to have a lot of options you're okay with going, so you're set here.

EkkoFroffles1 votes

It wasn't so much Wu mid not being viable as it was my inexperience with him in that role against the types of champions you commonly see mid. I don't recall being one of the primary reasons we lost in any of those matches I went Wu mid, but there's a drastic difference between being serviceable and going 21/5/2 in your first ranked match with Malzahar, with 1K more damage than the next highest, and 3K more gold than all but two people, one on either team, who you still earned more gold than by 1K and 2K respectively. We lost, but I was the one shouldering the least blame on our team, as I nearly carried that match despite still being a little new to Malzahar at that point. Wu mid also potentially robs your team of a source of AP, as mid tends to be where you find your team's AP.

I'm 2-0 with Caitlyn in ranked, actually, thanks to unbelievably good luck. Was carried the first match, succeeding only in not feeding due to that safety you mention, then did just enough to help my team win that second match, while still by no means fulfilling the "carry" part of the ADC role. I've yet to take Graves or Varus to ranked, but in a limited number of normal matches I've done more "carrying" with them than I ever did with Caitlyn. I sacrifice some safety, yes, but I don't feel like I'm robbing my team of a proper ADC like I am when I play Caitlyn. That's why I lean towards them over Caitlyn.

I get what you're saying. It's been an ongoing process, moving from someone who was useless if he didn't get to go Garen top to someone who can fill all 5 roles to some degree. I straight up didn't jungle for a long time before I picked up Warwick, just after he was nerfed from that briefly OP state of his, and learned the basics with him. I only supported with Janna initially simply because I didn't own another support. I sucked with Janna (0-5 in ranked), but she was all I had and all I knew. Then I bought Sona and started becoming more support, less a guy who was just sort of winging it every match. Mid, I either was merely serviceable with Wu or out of my element with someone like Katarina or Azir. Then I tried Heimer and Malz, both of whom are very forgiving despite lacking mobility (Heimer's turrets, Malz's visions), and was able to work my way from there. ADC, I either sucked or was a non-entity, doing nothing notably good or bad, prior to trying Graves for the first time. So I just wrapped up the process of finding those "comfort picks," and am now looking towards building upon that, so it'll take some time.

Roaranor1 votes

Sounds good. If they're what works for you, then by all means go for it. Btw, I didn't say any of this to say "ur trash u dont kno wat ur talkn about jus listen", but rather "I don't know how much he/she does or doesn't know, so it's better to just cover everything possible and let him pick out the bits and pieces that are applicable" because that's how I was taught to advise and produce information. Sorry, if it gave a condescending tone at any point. Best of luck!

EkkoFroffles1 votes

I took no condescension away from your comment, so no worries there. And thanks!

EkkoFroffles2 votes

Oh, and I can't believe I forgot to say thank you to you two for your detailed responses. They're really appreciated. I mean it!

Dr Poro2 votes

You forgot to place Ekko in the adc role.

EkkoFroffles1 votes

Funny. I hate to admit it, but I lost twice in a row to Ekko APC. I was support both times, and both times my ADC was at a complete loss for how to play against it. I'll probably try it once at some point for laughs, since Ekko is my new favorite champion, and since I've tried him everywhere else, but it's never something I'd try in a match that I'm trying to take seriously.

Ekko support, for instance, might have people looking at me like I'm crazy and/or dumb, but I honestly feel it's no stranger a choice than some of the things the pros do from time to time. Kennen support, for example. I know they're pros and could probably make something as stupid as AP Supp Jinx, which a friend of mine does somewhat regularly, work if they tried hard enough. But my point is that, as far as weird supports go, Ekko is far from the weirdest. For one thing, good luck escaping him and his ADC if they go in for the kill with the slow on his passive, the slow on his Q, the slow/stun on his W, and his E. Plus, if he overextends, he can get out just as easily. Give him an Ashe to lane with and you could conceivably have them slowed and/or stunned the entire match if you play it well enough. His stun is difficult to land, but if you land one at the right time it's pretty much a guaranteed kill. He's great at peeling with his Q and W. If an enemy who's low gets to tower and out of range of your ADC, your mobility and ult give you a great chance at finishing the job for them. He's also adept at foiling gank attempts with all his CC, mobility, and survivability. And, until they nerf his AP ratios, he doesn't need much in the way of items to deal a lot of damage, meaning he can settle into the role of another APC later in the match if necessary, just as a Lux or Annie can.

Like I said in another comment, I still won't pick him over a more traditional support unless I feel the situation I'm picking him into is a favorable one, but my friend climbed his way from B5 to S4 playing Yasuo support primarily. At low levels, don't underestimate the impact of the unexpected. Though, like I also said, I plan on working with some other "off-meta" supports that are at least a little more traditional (ex. Galio, Orianna, Lux).

insaiyanbacca1 votes

looks okay to me tbh except for jungle swap wu out for naut and sej, while wu is still a decent jungler naut and sej are quite a bit better atm imo

EDIT: i also feel your mid pool could use a little more expanding on maybe get some more aoe teamfighting mages in there like ori or brand even

Dr Poro1 votes

You don't need a big mid pool. 99% of the games someone else will want to play mid.

EkkoFroffles1 votes

In my 200+ matches this season, I probably could've played mid in half of them if I wanted to. I just was fearful of going mid until recently, and so I'd default to support if top and/or jungle were off the table. I like being able to mid effectively now because if I'm, let's say, third pick and I have my choice between mid, support, and ADC, I can go mid to put myself in a better position to carry rather than just going support, like I used to always do.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

im not saying he needs a big one just needs to be able to play a more teamfight based aoe mage as well just inc case thats what the team needs

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