Blood Moon Zilean confusion

Zarkkast·Apr 8, 2015·7 votes·11,048 views

First of all, I love this skin, the eclipse on his bomb is golden.

Now...

With Thresh, Elise and Kalista you guys gave a very good explanation for them. Of how the Blood Moon would represent the way they're seem on a different culture (Ionian) that not the Shadow Isles. But with Zilean...? It really doesn't make any sense.

Also, it's the sixth skin from the Blood Moon line, I think this is a first. I thought you guys wanted to make a whole team with a skin line and then retire it, but then there's this. Katey even said when replying to GotS Rek'sai that "there were only 4 yet."

And on top of it all there's the Fiddlesticks skin which could easily be a Guardian Of The Sands but was strategically changed to "Risen". (Which also raises questions regarding Final Boss Veigar, could there still be an Arcade middle laner? I think so, considering Skarner, Kha'zix and Fiddlesticks are more oftenly seem in the jungle, although one could argue for Skarner Jungle, Kha top and Fiddle support)

I propose this skin to be changed to Eclipse Zilean and that on his ultimate the screen should go darker representing an eclipse, instead of brighter like all the other skins.

49 Comments

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20158 votes

Hey Zarkkast!

While I can't speak to questions Blood Moon Zilean because I'm not working on that particular skin, Risen Fiddlesticks was chosen because it better represented the skin, since he's more of a mummy than a 'guardian of the sands'. Plus, Guardian of the Sands Fiddlesticks is a pretty long name for a skin.

If we have a cool concept for a skin line, we wouldn't limit ourselves just because a skin line already has 'a full team comp'. (This is why I didn't rule out the possibility of more GotS skins!) :]

ThryaleApr 8, 20153 votes

can you at least tell us why diana has yet to receive a blood moon themed skin despite being the absolute best candidate for it?

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20154 votes

Diana hasn't received any sort of a skin because her last skin was released a little over a year ago. As mentioned, we aren't limiting ourselves to five skins per thematic, so there is still a chance for Diana to get a Blood Moon skin.

Krys StarApr 8, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=n8V3RfBA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-04-08T18:04:21.100+0000)

Diana hasn't received any sort of a skin because her last skin was released a little over a year ago. As mentioned, we aren't limiting ourselves to five skins per thematic, so there is still a chance for Diana to get a Blood Moon skin.

That must explain why Varus got his Arctic Ops skin in March 20, 2014 and then Heartseeker Varus February 13, 2015... Nine months later. OH, WAIT. IT DOESN'T. Or how Ashe got her Heartseeker in February of 2014, and then Marauder in February of 2015! I don't play Diana, or Zed for that matter, but they both much deserves a Blood Moon skin. =\

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20156 votes

Hey Krys Star,

If we have a solid thematic for a skin, and it is fairly recent to their last skin release, that generally won't stop us from releasing another skin.

A case was with Reaper Soraka and Order of the Banana Soraka - this was a skin players had asked for for a long time, and although Reaper Soraka came out in October, the concept fit in really well with April Fools'.

I don't disagree that Diana or Zed would be cool candidates for Blood Moon skins. Zilean had been waiting four years for a skin, whereas Diana received her last skin at the end of Janaury 2014, and Zed received his last skin at the beginning of May 2014.

We don't have a set schedule for the release of a skin for a champion because we don't want to release a skin for the sole purpose of releasing a skin for x champion. We'd much rather take the time to develop a solid thematic/skin that resonates with players, and fulfills another fantasy for the champion/player.

Krys StarApr 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=n8V3RfBA,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-08T18:42:18.539+0000)

Hey Krys Star,

If we have a solid thematic for a skin, and it is fairly recent to their last skin release, that generally won't stop us from releasing another skin.

A case was with Reaper Soraka and Order of the Banana Soraka - this was a skin players had asked for for a long time, and although Reaper Soraka came out in October, the concept fit in really well with April Fools'.

I don't disagree that Diana or Zed would be cool candidates for Blood Moon skins. Zilean had been waiting four years for a skin, whereas Diana received her last skin at the end of Janaury 2014, and Zed received his last skin at the beginning of May 2014.

We don't have a set schedule for the release of a skin for a champion because we don't want to release a skin for the sole purpose of releasing a skin for x champion. We'd much rather take the time to develop a solid thematic/skin that resonates with players, and fulfills another fantasy for the champion/player.

Yeah, I can see your point. I know, and hopefully we, that you don't intentionally prolong releasing a skin for champions on purpose. It's time consuming to come up with a solid idea for a skin that sticks I'm sure. I didn't mean any disrespect if it came off like that, which I'm sure it did because I have a terrible habit of that.

Have you guys ever considered or juggled with the idea of Amethyst Lissandra by the way, or an icy-themed skin for Cassiopeia or Syndra? :) Also is Lux going to be receiving a skin soon? I've been dying to buy a skin for her, but her skins are so military-themed and I prefer something a little more 'pretty' or 'feminine.' D:

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20152 votes

Oh no, not at all, your post didn't come off as disrespectful. :]

I've personally never heard the Amethyst Lissandra idea, but I think there's some potential there, and it would potentially lend itself to making something a bit more 'girly', so to speak. I saw an ice-themed Cassiopeia skin idea on the boards about a month ago, and it was pretty awesome - it had icicles for Twin Fang. Snowball Syndra could also be pretty cool!

The latter two would be good examples of skins that if we did want to make, they would be content that wouldn't come out until winter, which would mean Cass and Syndra wouldn't receive a skin until ~December.

I hope this paints a better picture for things like this. Some ideas are awesome, but would be better suited for during the Harrowing, Lunar Revel, etc., which means they'd be released accordingly, and may mean waiting a bit longer for your favorite champion to get a new skin. ^-^

We unfortunately don't discuss what may or may not be in development. can say that we're aware that another military skin for Lux isn't the way to go, and something a bit more feminine is what the Lady of Luminosity needs. :]

Krys StarApr 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=n8V3RfBA,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-08T20:49:22.421+0000)

Oh no, not at all, your post didn't come off as disrespectful. :]

I've personally never heard the Amethyst Lissandra idea, but I think there's some potential there, and it would potentially lend itself to making something a bit more 'girly', so to speak. I saw an ice-themed Cassiopeia skin idea on the boards about a month ago, and it was pretty awesome - it had icicles for Twin Fang. Snowball Syndra could also be pretty cool!

The latter two would be good examples of skins that if we did want to make, they would be content that wouldn't come out until winter, which would mean Cass and Syndra wouldn't receive a skin until ~December.

I hope this paints a better picture for things like this. Some ideas are awesome, but would be better suited for during the Harrowing, Lunar Revel, etc., which means they'd be released accordingly, and may mean waiting a bit longer for your favorite champion to get a new skin. ^-^

We unfortunately don't discuss what may or may not be in development. can say that we're aware that another military skin for Lux isn't the way to go, and something a bit more feminine is what the Lady of Luminosity needs. :]

Oh gosh. If Amethyst Lissandra and a snow-themed Syndra skin came into existence, I would literally cry from tears of joy. I'd even pay 3250 RP for both, even if they weren't ultimate! T_T I love playing Ashe once in a while, and Amethyst Ashe is just like... a joygasm to my eyes, since I'm obsessed with purple lol. So I thought, why doesn't Lissandra and Sejuani have an Amethyst-themed skin as well?

Also, I know it's not as girly but have you guys considered a skin that contrasts to Lux's theme? I remember in her lore, she studied and 'copied' ( so-to-say ) Morgana's magic. A dark-themed skin for Lux that reflects the darkness that is Morgana would be pretty cool. :)

DaStruggIeEzreaIApr 8, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=n8V3RfBA,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-08T18:42:18.539+0000)

I don't disagree that Diana or Zed would be cool candidates for Blood Moon skins. Zilean had been waiting four years for a skin, whereas Diana received her last skin at the end of Janaury 2014, and Zed received his last skin at the beginning of May 2014.

We don't have a set schedule for the release of a skin for a champion because we don't want to release a skin for the sole purpose of releasing a skin for x champion. We'd much rather take the time to develop a solid thematic/skin that resonates with players, and fulfills another fantasy for the champion/player.

Can you see where that first bit seems to imply that Zilean was chosen for this skin because he hadn't had one in four years and that the second bit claims you don't release a skin just because a certain champion needs one.

Maybe it's just me but this particular theme doesn't really resonate with me. And doesn't fulfill some secret fantasy I've ever had for Zilean. Ever.

Just putting my two cents in. It 100% seems like releasing a skin for the sake of it.

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20155 votes

Sorry if it came off that way, that wasn't my intent. The mention of last skin for x champion was more in line with how some champions have had a significant gap in skin release time, whereas, others have received skins more recently. That's not tied to why he's receiving the skin. One reason is because we saw some cool opportunities in regards to particles for a Blood Moon Zilean - i.e. the eclipse as a bomb is getting ready to explode.

We don't make skins for the sake of making skins, and in fact, we have several brainstorms and concept rounds before the skin is nailed down. There's also been times where we're in the process of creating a skin, and then decide it's not the best skin for x champion.

Some skins aren't for everyone, and I appreciate your honesty. :]

cooldude27580Apr 8, 20151 votes

Wait what was recon teemo for? Teemo

KrfinApr 8, 20153 votes

Teemo was forcing Riot to make more skins for him so people would play him more and become an addition to his evil satanic army of mushroom worshipers. Teemo Teemo Teemo Teemo Teemo Teemo

HellioningApr 9, 20153 votes

Wouldn't, like, 'astrologer zilean' make more sense for that idea then? Like, I get that's a cool idea and all, and I'd love for that sort of skin, but I feel you're focusing too much on the name of the Blood Moon skin line and not enough on what the blood moon line is about. I mean, do Elise and Thresh have moons on their abilities? Last I checked, no.

JamnonApr 9, 20152 votes

I actually REALLY like this idea.

I somehow doubt Riot has any intention to trash a skin they've obviously already comitted to, but I really feel this thematic would be a LOT more approriate to Zillean. It is too bad this "niche" will be taken up, but I hope people like the Bloodmoon version.

That has a lot of potential which I like. Could have like a clock of the solar system on his back. That would be DOPE.

JamnonApr 9, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=n8V3RfBA,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-08T18:42:18.539+0000)

Hey Krys Star,

If we have a solid thematic for a skin, and it is fairly recent to their last skin release, that generally won't stop us from releasing another skin.

So if a theme is strong, you will release a skin regardless of how recently a previous skin was released.

I don't disagree that Diana or Zed would be cool candidates for Blood Moon skins. Zilean had been waiting four years for a skin, whereas Diana received her last skin at the end of Janaury 2014, and Zed received his last skin at the beginning of May 2014.

So... now the previous skin release is... important? Whereas earlier it was not? Im guessing this isn't an "all or nothing" guideline? I are confuze.

RiotmoonstonesApr 9, 20152 votes

So if a theme is strong, you will release a skin regardless of how recently a previous skin was released.

It wouldn't stop us from releasing it. We do keep release dates in mind 'cause releasing two Annie skins a patch apart isn't really cool or fair to other champs!

So... now the previous skin release is... important? Whereas earlier it was not? Im guessing this isn't an "all or nothing" guideline? I are confuze.

Excuse the copy pasta from another comment in this thread.

The mention of last skin for x champion was more in line with how some champions have had a significant gap in skin release time, whereas, others have received skins more recently. That's not tied to why he's receiving the skin. One reason is because we saw some cool opportunities in regards to particles for a Blood Moon Zilean - i.e. the eclipse as a bomb is getting ready to explode.

There are several factors that are discussed when making a skin, and one of them can include the last time a champion received a skin, but that's not to say 'it's just to make a skin'. Other factors can include things like, "will this champion be a good candidate for x event skin?" or, "If we have x thematic, for example, Guardian of the Sands, who would work well with this?" We don't just throw a dart at a list of skins to decide the kind of skin a champion gets - we go through several rounds of discussion and ideation before we nail down the thematic we're going to have for a skin.

JamnonApr 9, 20153 votes

So theres a lot of considerations taken into account with a skin. Actually figured as much as the quality has gone WAY up in terms of asthetics, IMHO.

I agree the eclipse bomb is ...(excuse the pun) really BOMB.

I guess the general idea is:

The Thematic should "feel right"
it should look good
It should fit a champ (doesnt clash or feel too similar to a champs other skins)
Should try to "space" skins out as much as possible (without ignoring Thematic)

Gosh I wonder if someone should like write all this down as like a pinned FAQ about skins... in say... the skin section? Just an idea :p

RiotmoonstonesApr 9, 20153 votes

It'd be a group effort to create it, but I can talk with the team and see if this is something we're up for! I think there could be a lot of benefit to having a few of the FAQ pinned for everyone to see.

Valiant YordleApr 10, 20151 votes

Have you considered Solar Diana and Lunar Leona?

PtarlorrApr 8, 20152 votes

Varus had an eleven month gap, you liar.

Krys StarApr 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Varus had an eleven month gap, you liar.

Oh, you're right. My math is bad haha. I had just woken up. OOPS!

MerxamersApr 8, 20153 votes

i honestly had no clue that Fiddle skin was supposed to be a mummy! it looks pretty cool, but if that's the intention maybe there should be some way of highlighting his 'mummy'-ness? maybe some exposed bandages or something?

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20153 votes

His head is exposed, and his recall animation also gives it away. ;]

MerxamersApr 8, 20152 votes

just watched the recall animation (lookin' super sick, btw), so now it makes sense. The exposed head makes it a little hard to read, though- just looks like a bleached white skull. Maybe giving it a slightly sandier, tanned-under-1000-years-of-desert-sun color would help? (full disclosure: i am nowhere near a fiddle main so i consider myself a neutral party)

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20153 votes

We follow a color hierarchy where the top of the skin is lighter than the bottom, which explains why he's a bit light. I can mention this to the team, though ^-^

CuixApr 9, 20151 votes

The most visually striking and obvious parts of that skin in-game are the pharaoh-esque crest, the emphasis on gold and emerald/turquoise, and an overall very mechanical construction. His exposed head doesn't really call mummy images to mind; that skin seems quite clearly meant to be another GotS skin.

AbiwonKenabiApr 8, 20151 votes

Does this mean there is still hope for a full Champion roster of Pool Party skins?

EVERYBODY, POOL PARTY IS BACK ON. OFF TO KATEY'S POOL.

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20153 votes

It's possible!~

If that ends up being the case - pool party, my house, 8 o'clock! (No one is going to get this Aquabats reference, but I really wanted to say it.)

Jeddy017Apr 8, 20155 votes

Pool Party Urgot pls

http://farahboom.deviantart.com/art/APRIL-FOOLS-523916340

QueenAquaApr 9, 20151 votes

I LOL'd. My fiance states he wants.

cooldude27580Apr 8, 20151 votes

POOL PARTY TEEMO

ZarkkastApr 9, 20152 votes

Hi, Katey!

Thanks so much for all your replies in this thread.

If it's not too much, may I ask you to talk to the team behind this skin about my eclipse suggestion for his ult? It would make the skin much more awesome if the screen went darker or even red instead of the regular brightness.

RiotmoonstonesApr 9, 20153 votes

Sure, I can pass it along! ^-^

GarurumonApr 9, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=n8V3RfBA,comment-id=000100030000,timestamp=2015-04-09T17:25:54.771+0000)

Sure, I can pass it along! ^-^

Could you also mention to them the fact that the Bombs look like Pokéballs? Like, it's a really confusing design, I mean, it's sleek but I would just laugh my ass off each time I'd see Zilean throw a bomb at me and try to catch me in it. WHAT IF! INSTEAD OF THE BOMBS STUNNING, THEY'RE PULLED TOWARDS THE MIDDLE OF THE BOMB AND SUCKED INTO THE BOMB, THEN THE BOMB FLIES BACK TO ZILEAN AND HE TAKES IT IN HIS HAND AND POINT IT TOWARDS THE SKY SCREAMING "WHO'S LAUGHING NOW, HUH!?"

EyrgosApr 8, 20153 votes

Risen would've made a lot more sense for Zilean, like he's transcended existence (even, space & time!) or become an ascended being...

Unfortunate, waited for years a skin that doesn't fit with him very well at all.

While pretty, it just misses the mark again :/.

RiotmoonstonesApr 8, 20154 votes

Risen Zilean could be cool, but he already had Shurima Desert Zilean, and we didn't want to overlap with a similar thematic.

FatedTitanApr 8, 20152 votes

You didn't want to overlap? Me oh me where do I go with this?

You literally made an Ascended/Shurima themed skin for Zilean, put a mask on him, and called it Blood Moon. Everything about the skin screams Shurima. You can name it Frostborn Zilean but that doesn't make it any less Shurima themed.

AbyssphereApr 8, 20154 votes

{quoted}

You didn't want to overlap? Me oh me where do I go with this?

You literally made an Ascended/Shurima themed skin for Zilean, put a mask on him, and called it Blood Moon. Everything about the skin screams Shurima. You can name it Frostborn Zilean but that doesn't make it any less Shurima themed.

What? There isn't a single Shurima-related aspect to the skin. Have you actually seen it? Everything from the Q eclipse to the dark red shadings on his ult, W and speed modifier suggest blood moon.

You are surely trolling.

CuixApr 9, 20152 votes

The semi-complex curved designs, abundance of gold instead of harsh red/white/black, and mechanical/metallic textures are what makes the skin appear very Shuriman. There are clear Blood Moon aspects, of course, but I definitely see FatedTitan's point, even they were an ass in their wording.

FatedTitanApr 9, 20152 votes

I mean his bomb is the Shurima sun sphere that we see in "Talisman of the Ascension." His clock looks like part of Azir's passive. And the color scheme isn't heavy red, black, and white. It looks Shuriman. If I came off like a jerk, I apologize, but there are clear Shurima elements present.

EyrgosApr 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=n8V3RfBA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-04-08T18:00:35.586+0000)

Risen Zilean could be cool, but he already had Shurima Desert Zilean, and we didn't want to overlap with a similar thematic.

Yeah, Arclight would be a better tag.

CuixApr 9, 20152 votes

BM Zilean still feels pretty Shuriman, actually. Heavy emphasis on gold, highly metallic textures, complex and tight curve designs, and the emphasized giant disc on his back really carry a lot of the visual language of Shurima. The skin team really needs to take another look at this skin when compared to the look of Azir and GotS Kha'Zix vs. BM Akali and Shen.

AbiwonKenabiApr 8, 20152 votes

I think skins in general go by the "rule of cool" Since skins aren't technically canon or are "Alternate Universe" they have more flexibility and don't necessarily HAVE to make complete sense. While I realize Akali and Shen had an actual lore reason for the skins (some skins do) and I like that they had a cool explanation for the Shadow Isles Blood Moon skins, I'm not necessarily mad that they now have Blood Moon Zilean. And trust me, I'm a lore nitpicker. I just understand that with skins, if they look cool, it's ok. And Blood Moon Zilean definitely looks cool! (At least to me....)

Umbral RegentApr 8, 20151 votes

Well, the skin sets usually get pretty convoluted. The Blood Moon skins (Zilean notwithstanding) encompass two Ionians and three Shadow Isles champions, as Shen, Akali, Thresh, Elise and Kalista. Although I'll have to disagree with you regarding the 6+ to a skin line, since Battlecast has 7 skins (Skarner, Cho'gath, Xerath, Urgot, Vel'Koz, Kog'Maw and technically Viktor) (Although even then, that's only one resource to use). Still, I like Blood Moon Zilean because they managed to pull him off with the theme of the midnight hour of the Blood Moon (as seen from the shadow encompassing the underlay of his Time Bomb). Although I would like to see the darkening thing on his Ultimate!

ZarkkastApr 8, 20154 votes

Yeah, originally was an Ionian thing, but them riot came with an explanation to give Shadow Isles champions the skins, the point was that with Zilean it just doesn't make any sense and it seems like it would've been more honest if riot just had said "they don't fit the theme, but look good anyway" when giving these skins to Thresh, Kalista and Elise.

Regardings Battlecast, even then we could get technical, it's Creator Viktor, Battlecast Alpha Skarner and Battlecast Prime Cho'gath, while they're all under the Glorious Evolution theme, the names are different, which is the same thing with Final Boss Veigar and Risen Fiddlesticks. With Blood Moon Zilean it's the first time we have a sixth skin with the same name. But this is just a technicality, you're right, there seems to be no limits to a skin line.

And I'm with high hopes riot sees this suggestion regardings the darkening on his ultimate! Would make so much more sense and it would look so awesome!

EyrgosApr 9, 20151 votes

Yeah, the eclipse or blood moon effect would really sell the skin.

Which, since this thematic isn't very befitting of Zilean at all, it really needs the extra draw to build up that thematic.

I agree about the Pokeball thing too, needs revision.

NEW M00NApr 9, 20151 votes

I like the Idea of Blood Moon Zilean , he has cool particles and a nice model. It doesnt really seem to fit his lore but in all honesty, skins shouldnt be specifically made because of their Lore. I think giving certain skin groupings for certain champs is a really cool idea (keep them coming), BUT personally i really want to see other champions receive skins. To name a some; Zed, Diana, Zac, Lux, Anivia, Gragas. These champs specifically since 1) Few skins, 2) Maybe a new TU also.

One more 2 cent opinion, i think Zed would be a good candidate for a new skin since he has only 2 and he is quite popular. Diana is similar to zed, she has 2 skins and people who play her like her and like her lore also, so it seems. I think a victorious zed skin would be a nice skin for him after all these changes of tanks and assassins for those whom play rank with Zed. Diana has so many options for a skin and i think a Blood Moon skin would be insane but i think its kind of cliche. If there were to be a skin that followed her lore i think it would prove very rewarding. (Maybe something similar to Jayce's new skin) A forsaken Diana or Hallowed, something dark to her lunar revel skin.

A rant about particles: Lux has 1 out of her many skins that have a particle change, maybe some kind is reverse particle colors would be cool. Anivia still looks clumpy and 1 of her skins has particle changes. Gragas would be a pretty awesome candidate for a new particle skin change and i would like to mention, maybe he could get a wrestler type skin like Braum did.

Overall, i think Blood Moon Zilean is awesome, but i think other champions could benefit better from a new skin.

cooldude27580Apr 10, 20151 votes

Dear Riot, What was recon teemo for? also I think it would be cool to release recon teemo and badger teemo again for the people who weren't playing when they came out so we don't have to get extremely luckey and get themn from mystary skins. <3. Teemo