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{Idea Gathering Thread} Kayle - In need for a rework? And if, how would you do it?

SaltyToplaneGoat·2/23/2015, 6:10:15 PM·3 votes·480 views

Usuall,y I post complete concepts of reworked kits here, that get mostly mixed responses, but this time I can't come up with a single idea. Kayle is one really old champ, a character going with the angel/paladin/magic-warrior theme. Not that this theme would be bad, nono, I think we surely have a spot free for a character like this. What irks me is just how her character & theme translates into gameplay.

Let's face it: Kayle is a higher being, coming from another dimension, and yet her playstyle is so goddam primitive it's almost unbelievable. I've come to call it "caveman-style". Throws a rock (Q) -> hurr durr beat you with fire stick! (E+ Rightclick-spam). And... that's kinda it. Of course that's not the only thing she can do. Her W is making her faster so she can smack you even more with her fire-stick. The only really awesome part is her ultimate and as it currently is it has caused some rather problematic scenarios for game-balance, combined with the fact that this whole Q-E thing isn't really counterplay friendly.

But why isn't she played so much then? First of all, she either facerolls everything or is completly ignored. And experiencing the second case is rather... well, let's say not a really fun experience. Also, in everything she's doing she's outclassed by other champs. She's kinda like LeeSin but less broken, a jack-off-all-trades somehow. You want damage? Other champs have more and ar emore reliable. Support your team? Most mage-supports do the job better.

Also (warning, subjective perception) she's incredible boring to play. No surpise if there is a) no area your champion excels in and b) you gp "full caveman" all game.

But... but... she's good at kiting melees without a gapcloser you will say now. Yes, that might be right. But, how many of these melee champs are actually played nowadays? The probably only thing she can do a bit better than most things and it's actually worthless. Kinda sad if you ask me.

So, how can we give an awesome champ the right rework she deserves?

Her some thoughts I made about this:

  • The firesword is pretty much iconic (mostly because she uses it all the time and it fits her angel-theme) so we should keep it. But what about giving it a bit more importance? From a simple range buff I could also see this as some kind of "YOU PISSED ME OFF I WILL FUCK YOU UP NOW! BURN!"-Skill. Also it doesn't have to be limited to a simple rage or AoE buff - there should be more combative options for this.

  • The wings. Kayle is one of the very few champions who could be theoretically capable of constant flight. (not counting levitation here, just wings. Other champs for that would be Anivia Galio ) I mean, she has those pretty white wings, why can't she use them somehow? How about a skill that makes her dive into the fight like fierce warrior she is?

  • We need to decide what role she's supposed to fill instead of being a generic jack-of-all-trades. Should she be more of a support? Some kind of AP Bruiser? A mage with mechnics for enchanting basic attacks? (more complex ones than just pressing E for range pls)

  • The passive will have to go. It's barely noticeable anyways (hello there hidden power) and a stat-shred isn't really the best thing that would fit her theme I guess.

Ok, that's it from my side, I'll be glad to hear your ideas here ^^

6 Comments

ModThe Djinn2/23/2015, 6:42:14 PM2 votes

Good start to a discussion here!

I'd probably approach this by figuring out how we want Kayle to play. Let's take the fire sword, for example: is the visual of a burning sword enough, or does Kayle need to light people on fire at range with her sword? If so, is it important to her concept that this ability be an active instead of always on? What about a toggle?

This lets us know if Kayle will become something like Jinx or Jayce (with "stances" for range or otherwise), a melee fighter with a burning blade, a melee/ranged hybrid fighter or marksman, a pure marksman, or (potentially) a sword-wielding mage.

Is the Kayle you imagine closer to one of these directions? Is she someone who dives into the fray or someone who hangs back and slings out fiery retribution?

I'm in favor of making her either a melee fighter or a pure ranged fighter, personally. While I conceptually like the melee/range dynamic, I'm not sure that feature is really worth a basic spell slot, and I think that it might be easier (and more thematic) to design her around a non-range-shifting chassis.

Thoughts?

ModThe Djinn2/23/2015, 6:58:45 PM1 votes

I wouldn't make her a stance-dancer unless Melee and Ranged had different engagement ranges. If we're keeping her entirely melee I think the stance mechanic isn't the thing to do: it might work on a character with a sharp visual contrast, but I don't think Kayle's burning sword would be enough.

Unless we went with a Gnar-style mechanic to open up periods of vengeance in her kit: build her as a somewhat passive fighter (like Garen, but with healing instead of tankiness) who, upon reaching a certain point in combat, ignites her blade, becomes suffused with burning energy, and becomes a high damage dealing brawler.

InHaruhiWeTrust3/3/2015, 12:21:54 AM1 votes

i completely agree she needs a rework(i think very badly). i played her when i was new lvls 1-15ish i never played her again until recently i got aether kayle from a mystery box :D. so i tried playing her again and got to where i was ok with her but since playing other champs(i have played all of them at least once) she is 1. SOOOOOOOOOOO boring to play! i completely agree with kyoki her kit is so boring use 2. having played all the champs in lol i can say with the utmost confidence that she is the most clunky feeling champ in the game no contest.

i would like to see her turned into a melee bruiser with her W being changed to some kind of gap closer, Q into a kill shot cc or something else entirely. E being the same but more powerful and not give her range, and ult being completely changed i don't have any ideas though. i really don't like kayles ult its my least favorite ult in the game its so short, you can still be cced, it has crazy long cd, trying to hit the target you want in a team fight is a night mare, and worst of all everyone on your team thinks that your ult belongs to them.