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Congratulations Riot, with this patch...

SaltyToplaneGoat··234 votes·11,640 views

... you fixed not a single problem, but made every existing one worse.

Toplane snowbally and unfun because the firstblood almost decides the lane? Add 20 minute Rift Herald buff to make sure the one who wins first stays on top for the next 20 minutes.

Sated Devourer + Rageblade being a toxic combo? Congratulations, now you can build Bloodrazors, an outdated garbage item that was removed in S2 for a fucking reason. AND THAT IN COMBINATION WITH RAGEBLADE. You still need two items for the powerspike, but you do no longer have to farm up for it. Congratulations to buffing the most unhealthy class of junglers to play against.

On top of that, all bloodrazor/rageblade junglers are AMAZING at objective control. Guess what became more important as well? DRAGONS.

The few mage changes are not that bad, but underwheming in most cases.

Also: Did Brand even need another buff after he has already started crowding out supports on bot?

And the item changes... holy shit, usually I thought me as a Singed player I would be untouched by it but... I ran out of mana. I had a RoA and a quite stacked tear, and I RAN OUT OF MANA. How the fuck is that even supposed to work? This is the first time ever I have ran out of mana as Singed past the 10 minute mark. HELLO, DO I LOOK LIKE A BURST MAGE TO YOU? What the fuck am I even supposed to do when I can't even splitpush normally as Singed?

I'm not sure what kind of drugs Riot has been taking since the preseason. It's like they were like "welp, we fucked up, let's dick around the whole season with random stuff, better luck next year i guess" the moment preseason turned out to be absolute bullshit...

252 Comments

ArxMessor113 votes

The tone of this article makes me sad for NA. Not the content, tone:

"you fixed not a single problem, but made every existing one worse."

"Congratulations, now you can build Bloodrazors, an outdated garbage item that was removed in S2 for a fucking reason."

"HELLO, DO I LOOK LIKE A BURST MAGE TO YOU? What the fuck am I even supposed to do when I can't even splitpush normally as Singed?"

"I'm not sure what kind of drugs Riot has been taking since the preseason."

Riot provides these boards to the playersbase in an attempt to create meaningful conversations between themselves and players and between players and other players.

The fact that you have to WRITE your thoughts down gives you the ability to step back, calm down and make a quality message.

Having said that, the OP either intentionally chose to be sarcastic, whiny and to yell (all caps) or simply typed out whatever came to his mind. Either way the result is a post that has really great points drenched in toxicity.

If the OP simply wanted to rant then this he/she did a great job.

If the OP wanted to positively contribute to the Riot and the LoL community, then he failed.

Again, the points he brought up weren't the problem: ● The Rift Harold buff plus the snowball nature of top lane can result in onesided and unfun gameplay ● Bloodrazor is a based on an item that was removed from the game for some (he didn't elaborate) reason ● On-hit champions that were overpowered because of Devourer and Rageblade will remain overpowered because of Bloodrazor and the reworked Rageblade. ● These champions will be able to use their power to dominate the now-buffed neutral objectives making other types of junglers less viable ● Buffing Brand in the rework could cause him to become overpowered as a Support and "crowd out" other choices. ● The massive changes to items has made massive changes to the game (and Singed, a champion that the OP likes).

All of those points have merit and are worth discussing at length. Thank you OP for bringing solid content to the boards.

What's with the toxic attitude though? It's not like you are forced to write "in the heat of the moment"; you have the all the time in the world to calm down before you post. The sarcasm and rage doesn't add value or impact to your post. If anything it distracts readers from your perfectly good ideas.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to analyzing game balance which means you probably care about LoL and want it to suceed. Why not just drop the attitude?

EDIT: OP is from EUW not NA.

NoSkillShreking11 votes

That's right guys, don't do anything that could possibly hurt a grown adult's feelings, who knows what would happen then.

Unbelievable how fast this sensitivity disease is spreading.

ModKnightsKemplar6 votes

It's not about sensitivity. It's about what the boards are useful for and what we can make happen using the right tools. Whining isn't helping.

NoSkillShreking6 votes

And as we've seen time and time again "being civil" doesn't accomplish anything either.

So I think the majority of us will stick to venting about Riot's horrible decisions that we know for a fact won't be getting changed for at least 5+ patches.

Serika Zero47 votes

if riot would actually take notice or "nice" posts, suggestions and feedback, the community overall would be more nice but since they do not, people mostly come here to vent out their frustration. So, you won't get "lady-gentleman discussion". You would get stuff you would normally find in a pub. So, you either take it as such or move on to a better place.

ArxMessor20 votes

I understand your feeling (emphasis on feeling) but your entire idea hinges on "Riot doesn't respond to 'nice' posts" being true and it simple isn't.

Riot does respond to nice posts. There is even a way to track exactly what posts Riot responds to. Riot responds to all kinds of posts.

Besides that, even if Riot never responded to a single user post, using "they don't respond" as an excuse for being toxic on this forum (or anywhere else) is ridiculous...

"Riot doesn't respond anyway so I'm going to be sarcastic, whiny and yell in my posts."

What happened to self-control?

Also, "venting" is not the issue here. You can vent and not be toxic. You can go into great detail as to how and why you are extremely frustrated with the state of the game, etc., etc., without being toxic.

So, you either take it as such or move on to a better place.

F ck that. I'd rather be active, take some responsibility, stick around and try to contribute quality content.

NoSkillShreking11 votes

And out of all of these threads that Riot has responded to which ones have actually led to anything?

None?

But hey we had some "meaningful dialogue" right? That has to count for something right?

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb15 votes

riot responds to posts that dick suck, but rarely responds to posts looking to engage in actual discussion.

Eevee In A Jar4 votes

It was in season 2 where the vast majority of players back then said outright "Anyone who keeps accusing people of being toxic are the ones who are toxic." The word itself; toxic; is bad. People just call each other toxic for doing a tiny thing they don't like. Oh you stole 1 creep by accident? Toxic. Oh you pinged me? Toxic. Oh you fed? Toxic. Oh you suck? Toxic. Toxic everything. In-game is worse. Why not use the mute button to save yourself the trouble, right? Nah it's more important to surround yourself around toxicity so you can report it? This isn't like drug cartels killing your neighbor so you have to stand up and fight back for people you love. This is people acting pissy because they perceive someone else to be flawed, not them. Which is just about everyone who hasn't been humbled or isn't intelligent.

ArxMessor1 votes

It was in season 2 where the vast majority of players back then said outright "Anyone who keeps accusing people of being toxic are the ones who are toxic."

This isn't season 2. That is not what I said. Why are you talking about this here?

The word itself; toxic; is bad

Sure.

People just call each other toxic for doing a tiny thing they don't like.

I was very, very specific about what I was calling toxic. Did you read my post?

Toxic everything. In-game is worse. Why not use the mute button to save yourself the trouble, right? Nah it's more important to surround yourself around toxicity so you can report it?

Wow, that escalated quickly...

This isn't like drug cartels killing your neighbor so you have to stand up and fight back for people you love.

No kidding, it was me giving my opinion to the OP about how to make a more easily recieved message.

You are painting it as if I was defending my family from a drug cartel.

Eevee In A Jar2 votes

Literally everything I mentioned are symptoms of toxic players that all vets have used since season 2. Whether or not it's S2 or S6 makes no difference what toxicity means and the fact you're trying to disprove my argument by saying that just shows how fucking dumb you are. You're only here to make yourself feel superior "Look at these guys crying and look at me not crying and level headed." No one gives a damn about your "opinions" because we're all here to talk about Riot's bullshit moves. I mean Riot's streak has been REALLY REALLY bad lately that they need to send out a survey asking whether what players feel is imbalanced regarding champs/items/etc. Actually look at teh individual changes in the new patch; the champ "fixes" are basically done by people who seemingly don't play League or don't play these champs. If you did your research on all this, you'd know instead of going "look at the red tracker, see they reply." Did you read any of those replies? Most of them are not really that productive and just devs being defensive towards bunch of 12 year olds who seem to know about balancing and what kind of balancing the game needs to fix the current issue.

Let's not even get started on the Solo Q fiasco to which Riot themselves said was a bad idea to go into Dyn Q. And I wasn't replying to your toxic accusing post about the OP; I was talking about you with your 2nd reply. You're being toxic too with your passive aggressive bullshit; which is far more pathetic than openly being an asshole.

ArxMessor1 votes

Literally everything I mentioned are symptoms of toxic players that all vets have used since season 2. Whether or not it's S2 or S6 makes no difference what toxicity means and the fact you're trying to disprove my argument by saying that just shows how fucking dumb you are...And I wasn't replying to your toxic accusing post about the OP; I was talking about you with your 2nd reply. You're being toxic too with your passive aggressive bullshit; which is far more pathetic than openly being an asshole.

I'm not going to let you lump me in with the group of people you claim call "everything" toxic. I very clearly quoted the specific things that I considered toxic in the OP's post.

And I didn't say that to disprove your arguement. I said that to let you know that you were talking about something completely different than I was.

Eevee In A Jar3 votes

I'm not lumping you with people who call everything toxic. But you ARE calling things toxic when it isn't. Just because someone curses doesn't mean it's toxic. His "toxic comments" dont piss off other people or ruin their fun in the game (why? because you can simply leave the thread). The only real toxic comment I see on OP's post is the last part where he says Riot prob taking drugs and the last sentence where he says they're dicking around... but it's true. Riot is acting like they're obsessively indulging in crap drugs and dicking around this season and I'll explain why best as possible.

"welp, we fucked up, let's dick around the whole season with random stuff, better luck next year i guess" This is literally what Riot has done this season. They've literally gone back on every single word they said about the direction they're taking it. two primary points they mentioned were Solo Q and "Meta." They said they won't implement team rank or dynamic queue like system for several years for the same reason everyone on the forums are raging about. They said they try to discourage the meta and they worked endlessly to try to erase any form of "meta" mind so that any champ at any role is playable. They tried to erase FotM which you can't fully erase but it was going towards a healthy direction. I feel this decay really started when they removed feast or famine.

Then season 6. Boom. Everything. I mean EVERY progress they made on their projects, not just the two points I mentioned, they do a complete 180 because they need to start hooking in casuals. After all, why keep trying to keep vets when veterans are minorities and bought about as much RP as they can. Now the casuals and newbs need to start spending money for Riot to grow. So Riot starts catering to 90% of players which in theory sounds great but 90% of those players are mechanically bad at the game and simply lack the knowledge to close out games. Enter Dynamic Queue. Now I like the structure of Dyn Q. In theory and on paper, it's a great system. For non competitive games.

Why is it bad for rank? It was RIOT who listed these reasons since season 1 when people complained about Solo Q. 1. Abuse; people can easily abuse it so they can be boosted to ranks they do not deserve or can get alone. This is an epidemic especially at the diamond and plat level. 90% of my friend list are legitimately players with mechanics of bronze or silver players... yet they are all in the same rank as me... I know they got boosted because they invited me to play a game with them and it was a 5 man premade all higher rank than the low rank player. Sure there is the division limit.... but that doesn't really do that much. This system was set up so low rank players see progress. Good players will rank up anyways and overcome horrible teammates, right? Well what if you get horrid teammates who shouldn't be in that rank + face off against a 4-5 man premade who has played over 100 games together? Voice chat or not, you're screwed. You're at a clear disadvantage. Why do sports pro teams or even league pro teams scrim and practice all the time? To replicate perfection as a team. As Solo Q, everyone is in the same disadvantage that you don't know your teammates and no matter how much you do at high rank, you still can only count for a fraction of the team's success. Dyn Q completely erases that notion.

On top of that they make shit easy to play champs like Ekko or Yi to be build tanky and yet still do as much burst as an assassin or burst mage. Why did this happen? they removed feast or famine. Champs who needs to get fed to snowball. Since 90% of players are baddies, people don't know how to play early game champs or assassins. You were punished for not capitalizing on your role as assassin or early game powerhouse thus you fell off. Riot erased this notion and made it so you can pick assassin EVERY game, play under turret to last hit, then snowball. That's dumb. when I play any other role, and chjoose the saem exact class of champ you are punished... except for assassins. Early game powerhouses given strong scaling to late game while late game carries still have weak early games with no compensation whatsoever. Why do you think the game fucking sucks right now with people just picking snowball-y champs and never team fight; win by safe split pushing? This is all Riot's doing because it's more "competitive and fun" right? I mean my God I've never been this fucking bored in Pro games. I still see great plays every game but still boring overall.

Lil Gr33n Ghouls38 votes

Its been out less than a day. At least wait a few days before you start casting your holy judgement.

CppL25 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ike and Robin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YE9Jjg9F,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-05-04T15:15:33.038+0000)

Its been out less than a day. At least wait a few days before you start casting your holy judgement.

20 minutes herald buff ,20 MINUTES!! you dont need to wait to realise that shit is retarded beyond believe...

NoSkillShreking19 votes

Not to mention it doesn't go away if you die...

But no we're all being too hasty, Riot's balance has been so spectacular lately, we just need to trust Riot and give them a break for every poor decision they make.

/s

Utility Veigar26 votes

Remember when everyone cried about Duskblade being OP before it even hit live?

And when the item went live, it turned out to be garbage.

Just chill out. rofl.

Lil Gr33n Ghouls4 votes

I'm not saying rito is god and they balance everything perfectly. I'm just saying wait a few days before you write everything off as horrible.

Alüe6 votes

It could be out for a month and you would still be the fan boy saying hold on fella's!!!

TheOvermind32 votes

It seems you have no idea what you are talking about... -The new Rift herald is an excellent objective that not only balanced the objective pressure equally on both halves of the map, but also is a very nice and unique way of applying map pressure top. More diverse and intense action in the whole map not just bot and drag pit.

-The new Rageblade is definitely healthier that the old one, it's not as effective when rushed and doesn't provide the massive powerspike that it once did. Might need adjustments though for ranged champion ( kogmaw, kayle , vayne)

-The removal of devourer was the best thing to happen in league in the past 2 years; The new bloodrazor is an excellent lategame item that suits the champions it is intended for very well.

-Towers don't melt anymore, and they are not the only objectives worth fighting for. The new Dragons ensure there is action in the game at all stages of the game.

-Overall most mage updates were excellent, except some overtuned ones.(malzahar)

-Brand finally got what he needed all this time : a healthier stun, better cool-downs, less right out flat burst , but higher explosive damage in teamfights through the power of his combos involving his passive and a more reliable Ultimate.

-Mana see,s to be a problem indeed, I agree with you here, new items don't seem to accomplish something that the old ones did not. if anything they don't do stuff the old items did.

A Ocean5 votes

-Mana see,s to be a problem indeed, I agree with you here, new items don't seem to accomplish something that the old ones did not. if anything they don't do stuff the old items did.

I'm pretty sure that's the goal. Remove the feel of "infinite mana" and force mages to play efficiently even in mid-late game.

Edit: ty for downvotes, I just repeated what some Rioters said.

Wimbledofy5 votes

Even if it is the goal, it is a terrible one. No other class has to worry about this. Zed can spam his waveclear all day, meanwhile as a mage am I not supposed to use my mana to clear a wave now?

DorkunedAuras5 votes

you have to use it intelligently. You can't just infinitely stall. You have a lot of mana to play with, just not all the mana ever

Athenes Lulu5 votes

No other class has to worry about this

Stopped reading after this line.

Spoofghoul6 votes

its true though

manaless/energy users dont have to bother much at all with resource management which leaves tank and adc

most tanks grab 1 mana item and their issues are solved. adc grab item 3508 and they get infinite mana AND almost max cdr

and no assassins and fighters dont have to bother manamanagement ever seen fiora or ekko run oom? no didnt think so. Believe me i tried on them spamming off cd and i couldn't go oom i just couldn't

Kecuz22 votes

Afters years of playing league of legends i think im done. Riot is seriously killing this game and making it worse with every patch. I dont feel like playing this game like i did last season.

ninjaIRL 54 votes

Goodbye.

Critmaster Garen17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YE9Jjg9F,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-04T14:04:49.629+0000) Add 20 minute Rift Herald buff to make sure the one who wins first stays on top for the next 20 minutes.

yea, ive kinda seen this a s a problem from the start. i mean you wont be able to take rift herald on your own, so getting ahead in lane isnt enough. you need your jungler and possibly mid laner have a window of opportnity aswell.

but it really does favour the team with a slight early advantage.

Hethalean24 votes

Agreed. I am nervous about the Rift Herald change. However, this complaint seems premature to know how it'll play out. I just see these complaints as " I don't want to learn the new changes or play towards them. Therefore, it'll only be negative towards me because I'm not responsive to changes. This'll only make me lose more because Idk how to Incorporate changes. I wish nothing changed since season 1."

KorZod2 votes

I think that the change is on the line but ok because you can still send jungle top to fight the herald-buffed dude in a 2v1, but if they send their jg top then the buff doesn't work. It seemed to me like they're only buffed when they're very alone. If anything, it might tip off if they want to dive you with their jungler

World Ender14 votes

Let me counter all of your points here to show you how overblown your ideas are.

When did first blood NOT decide the lane? The person who gets that 400 gold is going to have a powerspike no matter what, and Rift Herald doesn't change that. Adding to this, the buff is only 5% damage reduction and a small amount of extra damage periodically...basically, that's equivalent to buying a cloth armor and a long sword. Big deal. Also, if you think that the Herald is pretty much free for the person who got first blood...well, you're wrong about that. The Herald hurts a lot more now, and trying to do it with you half health jungler who just finished his first clear and your top laner who just got first blood and is on 200 HP is ridiculous...

Bloodrazor was only removed so Riot could experiment with a stacking jungle enchantment, i.e. Wriggle's Lantern. Riot have realized that stacking jungle mechanics are unhealthy for the game, so they're going back to the healthiest attack speed jungle item we had. Seems fair, right?

Guinsoo's will hardly be bought at all unless the jungler gets ahead. The item costs the same as a damn infinity edge, and it's build path is still garbage. On top of that, completing it causes it to LOSE attack speed until you're around 3 stacks. Overall the item is much weaker than either old Rageblade or Sated.

And you're telling me that objective control is somehow...not a valid strategy for trying to win the game? I'm sorry, but I lost it here in your post. If attack speed junglers aren't supposed to control objectives, then who is? And now on top of your complaints about their items, you're telling me that they shouldn't be able to take dragons?

The mage changes did what they were supposed to do, which is update a lot of the older mages' kits to feel more recent and unique. It may not be the most exciting thing in the world, but what they did was pretty warranted and necessary in most cases.

When even was the last time you saw a Brand support? For me it had to have been over 3 months ago, before they nerfed him. Brand is in a decent spot, but with low play rate because he feels like a ball of stats when comparing him to other burst mages, and if he isn't stronger than them he falls out of favor. Do the changes make him stronger? Maybe. They nerfed a lot of his damage from basic abilities in favor of giving him a more interactive passive.

News flash: tons of people don't even build mana on Singed. You lost what, 400 mana on ROA in exchange for a passive that lets you convert damage taken into mana? And tear now refunds mana on cast instead of giving flat regen? Wow, when you look at the changes like that, there doesn't seem to be too big of a difference there. Just because your favorite build changed doesn't mean your champion is somehow nerfed to the ground. Either learn to use mana more conservatively or build a different mana item.

Jasiwel12 votes

I'm not saying you're wrong...but the patch was just released and no one is used to anything yet.

Give them a week then come back to tell them they screwed up.

I will agree that the Rift Herald buff being 20 minutes is ludicrous.

Meep Man11 votes

I mean, Rift Herald was hardly ever taken now, generally, and now the objective is actually something to fight over. Same with Dragon. Now teams have to team fight early other than just stay in lane and farm, farm, farm, kill, kill, kill.

SaltyToplaneGoat10 votes

You don't fight over it. The jungler camps top until they get a kill. Then they go and get a free herald.

Not much straetgic depth involved imo...

JMoormann7 votes

But there is definitely strategic depth in how to utilize the buff. Currently it makes you simply stronger, but now you really need to play around setting up a 1v1 for your top laner (or maybe jungler) to utilize the buff.

Also, keep in mind that most early game champions aren't doing very well in the top lane: it's mostly scaling tanks. Allowing early game champs to, when you play around them properly, transition their early lead into a mid/late game advantage allows champs like Renekton to possibly bully tanks before they become unkillable.

Mister Support3 votes

So that means people haven't learned it's worth contesting yet? Give it time, people will want it more and fight for it.

Kotex9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YE9Jjg9F,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-04T14:04:49.629+0000)

I'm not sure what kind of drugs Riot has been taking since the preseason. It's like they were like "welp, we fucked up, let's dick around the whole season with random stuff, better luck next year i guess" the moment preseason turned out to be absolute bullshit...

YES. Seriously... thats what this all feels like. "We really fucked up this season. Well we can just use it to test for the next season to make sure we do that one right"

The MageLord4 votes

Why are they completely reworking the game in the middle of season? Surely this stuff is best left for the pre-season.

Duke Anax5 votes

Well that's exactly the point, they fucked up so bad last preseason, that they decided they could do a mideseason as well, because it wouldn't fuck up any worse.

Hyperiön7 votes

Someone is super salty. Blodrazers is shit, new Rageblade is Shit, They will slowly drop off once people realzie how weak this really is.

Critmaster Garen9 votes

{quoted}

Someone is super salty. Blodrazers is shit, new Rageblade is Shit, They will slowly drop off once people realzie how weak this really is.

he was talking about bloodrazor + rageblade against baron and drakes. i guess junglers with these items are shredding through those things like paper due to the double % hp damage procs.

Hyperiön4 votes

Even Still, it is only 3% Hp, that is not a lot of extra damage. And Rageblade now is super expensive for any jungler to get unless they have like 8 kills in the first 10 minutes of the game.

Malix Farwin7 votes

{quoted}

Even Still, it is only 3% Hp, that is not a lot of extra damage. And Rageblade now is super expensive for any jungler to get unless they have like 8 kills in the first 10 minutes of the game.

how fast do you think these junglers attack? because its not 3% per 10 or even 5 seconds.

Hyperiön4 votes

Even if they just stack attack speed, they lack the pure damage, as well as they will be super squishy so just blow them up. On PBE, no one plays master yi, ww, nothing, because it takes too long to get the powerspike that they would get before the patch went live. RB is now 3600, do you know how long that takes just farming the jungle? Not to mention it is only active once its fully stacked, so yes it is still going to hurt, but it is going to take a hella lot longer to get there than the 2500 that it costed previously. So, as I said, unless they get super fed in the beginning of the game, unless the jungler wants to be super squish and far behind, you won't see rageblade very often on them simply because of how much gold it costs. I guess lower Elo would be the place to see it, seeing as they build whatever the hell they want too, not thinking about gold efficiency.

Death by Kayn3 votes

Bloodrazor has damage cap vs monsters tho

five oh tree 7 votes

If you're still building ROA and tear on singed instead of rylai's and liandry's, you have a bigger issue than mana problems.

thumbnail96 votes

Brand crowding out supports in bot lane LOL.

MrLlamaWaffle5 votes

New Herald and dragon changes are just "win more" objectives for the winning team. Just makes the game more snowbally, feels really terrible to play league atm when you're even a little behind.

The old dragon you could at least give up a few because your team knew it couldn't fight at dragon, now it's like the entire game comes down to fighting over Dragon because if the winning team gets these insane buffs, it's pretty much over.

Leu074 votes

Cassiopeia feels really bad, I went from making 30/9/11 with her last week to a 1/5/2, like she feels soo weak :/ her dps got down too much just for a fantasy grounded effect that is just a worse version of a silence, and easily countered by just walking a bit out of it.

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