Boards›Gameplay

As a 600k Soraka main the very existence of Senna is just a slap in the face

SaltyToplaneGoat·12/1/2019, 1:38:51 AM·247 votes·27,739 views

As Soraka in lane you literally have to kill yourself to heal and also get in enemy range to get that back up - and stars beware you EVER get to deal ANY damage or have ANY sort of real CC. This was for balancing they said, you get to be "THE HEALER" for those tradeoffs. So Soraka brings to the table: a heal, a delayed hard cc, and a global ult to help out in other lanes.

Meanwhile Senna gets all that, AND her shroud, AND damage, AND carry potential, AND a specific AD-Supp item, AND free stats....

What exactly was the point of hitting on my poor healgoat so hard when in turn you give Senna a free pass? Right now I have the most success with taking her to toplane and then abusing the power of a spammable range slow combined with sustain as well as the fact that E is an instant damage cast that's hard to avoid. I literally have to pick THE HEALER-CHAMPION for everything in her kit that's NOT HEALING. Meanwhile Senna...

And it feels even more like she was just made to spite support mains for the fact that her entire kit completly lacks internal synergy. NONE of her abilities actually work with each other in a relevant way. It's just a pile of "how much bullshit can we randomly stack on this champion and oh wait and let's give her enough extra-healing on the side that she can out-perform a Soraka during lane-phase". Look even the most basic champions have at least SOME sort of internal plays going on, from the typical "hit your skillshot then follow up" to "weave your basic attacks right between abilities" depending what sort of champ it is. Meanwhile Senna does... nothing of that sort. You can click your Q wherever, none of your kit actually cares if you hit that E or not, and none of your skills is in any way connected to the cloud.

And to top it all off: the clunky attack animation that just feels REALLY weird combined with the fact that she just does not fulfill the "I got the BIG GUN!" fantasy that comes with such weaponary. You should have just made her a mage, sort of a cross between Ezreal, Veigar, and Xerath... but like this? Just bad design. Turns out that "needs to dou lane with lucian and have references to him and thresh" is NOT a solid basis for actual good design who could have known?! Next time base your goals on actual gameplay and don't take a lazy shortcut because then THIS happens.

Tl,dr for Senna: looks good visually, fails miserable mechanically - and that failure has to be grossly overcompensated with free stats and other nonsense that's just insulting to everyone who actually plays a "normal" champ.

198 Comments

Baby Ghoul12/1/2019, 2:37:42 AM67 votes

I'm close to 1 mill points on Soraka and have been playing her since season 5, and I agree with most of what you said.

I'd be fine with Senna if she didn't do as much damage. I love the utility Senna brings to the table. I don't want that touched. I want her damage nerfed.

Senna's heals aren't as good as Soraka's, but that's a stupid defense because nobody's heals are better than Soraka's. Her whole champion identity is healing, so I would HOPE that nobody's heals are better than Soraka's. For the love of God, don't give the design team any more bad ideas you guys.

The issue is that Senna's heals aren't far off from Soraka's, while she's doing an insane amount of damage.

It's the same problem as with Yuumi. You can't completely erase a champion classes' weaknesses. It just doesn't work out.

Enchanters are vulnerable and don't do a lot of damage. That's their trade off for having high levels of utility. When you give them no interaction like with Yuumi, they're broken. When you give them damage like with Senna, they're broken.

It's not a difficult concept to understand but one Riot seems to always be pushing against lately. They don't know how to create enchanters anymore.

In my opinion Senna can be saved. She doesn't need to be permanerfed like Yuumi or permabanned like Pyke. If they just tone down her damage, she could do fine, but then that takes us into the bigger issue that we're all kneecapped as supports now thanks to the items changes that were created because of mage supremacy developing bot lane.

Daedric Etwahl12/1/2019, 5:25:25 AM26 votes

I'm not a Soraka main, I'm a Sona main, but I was just thinking this about Senna compared to my champion. Like, laning especially vs Senna feels godawful because she basically gets everything my champion has, but better.

Higher attack range than me. It's difficult to do any real damage to her when her poke outranges my Power Chords. It's near impossible to come out on top of a trade with her like this.

She also gets to heal her allies on top of being a poke champion. Anybody who has played any amount of Sona knows how pathetic her W is in the early game.

Fuck her E even gives a speed boost just like Sona's does, only hers is a better speed boost, lasts longer, and comes with the bonus effect of camoflauge

Senna E: 20% bonus MS for up to 6 seconds rank one.

Sona E: 10% (+3% per 100 AP) bonus MS for 3 seconds rank one.

Senna also gets hard CC pre-6 via her W, whereas Sona doesn't get any hard CC until her ult.

Im not saying Senna does literally everything all game better than Sona does, but Senna basically does everything Sona can do, but better, in lane phase, while also getting to scale and be a damage and enchanter threat as she pleases like Sona gets to.

Vs Soraka, she heals better but I poke better. Vs Brand, he pokes better but cant sustain his ADC at all. Senna gets to do both of these, while also being safer than Sona is, and not being as squishy. It's extremely frustrating just from a design perspective.

Xavanic12/1/2019, 1:59:59 AM16 votes

this is why ive started playing HoTS, snowballing is almost non-exsistant, and on top of this the game is less stressful, also lol is just gonna keep getting worse with their champs, soon we will have a healer tank assassin hybrid, its like they have no set goal in mind for a champ and just want them to do everything now a days

Żügżwäng12/1/2019, 5:59:19 AM14 votes

I feel riot should admit they went too far with Senna and re release her in a more streamlined version That's a nice way of saying strip her kit down. Global ult? Not sure why she ever needed it nor does it feel like it belongs thematically.

That, or add limitations to her. Not sure why her Q pierces and hits everything at max value. Why does her range start so large? Why can she spam auto and Q so fast in succession... Again it doesn't feel like she's carrying some giant cannon. Her champ barely feels encumbered

I'm not saying Senna is so unstoppable, but she's definitely very powerful. The main issue I have is just how much stuff her kit does. It doesn't make her feel unique or like she's filling a special role.

Especially with aphelios coming soon. He also seems to be stricken with the too much stuff happening fever . It's as if riots design team is out of ideas so they need each new champ to be bigger and more busy than the last to make them stand out. It's like the design version of power creep. With aphelios I look at him and see nothing thematically interesting... Just a guy who is going to spam a bunch of different projectiles on rotation... A bunch of things that already exist in the game that they've compiled into his kit. Perhaps it's time to bring on some new designers?

iiGazeii12/1/2019, 1:50:54 AM12 votes

Soraka's healing is better than Senna's, and Senna can't spam heals without running out of mana.

Best At Sucking12/1/2019, 5:34:51 PM8 votes

You think this is a slap in the face of soraka? This is a fucking love letter to killing old karma. OLD Karma, not this nu-garbage Karma

You remember why they killed Old Karma? not even because she was unbalanced, but because she was "not played enough". Then they replaced her with a bland mid laner

Senna's kit is a direct upgrade from Old Karma

Old Karma V Senna Remember Old Karma had no ult, and only 2 empowers in her pool

  • Attack Fan mid range Aoe Skill-shot Damage/Empowered into an aoe heal < Rectangle Long range Aoe skillshot, that damages AND aoe heals, that also hits turrets and collects mist

  • Anti-gank Target any unit Tether that on touch speeds allies and slows enemies/Empowered with damage < Sona like speed boost, THAT MAKES YOU UNTARGETABLE, WHENEVER AN ALLY ENTERS IT, not just on cast or once

  • Defensive Target Sheild/Empowered into an Aoe Nuke < GLOBAL WIDE SKILLSHOT EZ ULT that ALSO gives a shield to EVERY ally hit

  • Catch Literally nothing < Skillshot root, with NO WINDUP ANIMATION, that hits anyone in the Aoe

  • WTF Riot Literally nothing < Infinitely scaling mist, range, damage, that can't be interrupted or zoned because she collects it so fast, it might as well just be a free passive

I was a Karma main, no only is this an insult, its broken and they haven't nerfed it once, not even from PBE

Death by Glamour12/1/2019, 2:20:22 AM8 votes

One thing i want to see is that Senna's AAs against minions do not reduce the CD of her Q. Atleast she wont be able to play the oh so safe healbot in lane.

Veilaz12/1/2019, 2:15:45 AM8 votes

yeah senna is op , wait for the nerf ... or start playin her lol...

i lose everytime i play against her and i win every time i play with her so ... thats just too op . nerfs incoming

Nielarken12/1/2019, 3:55:46 PM7 votes

As a soraka, nami, and former sona player the biggest spit in the face is not only the free stats from senna's passive but the fact that she can scale with pure damage stats while still having the same amount of uility as every enchanted who had their scaling dumpstered

Tokishi712/1/2019, 3:54:10 AM7 votes

As a 10 year vet to this game, the very state of the game and company is a slap to the face lol

G0blinSlay3r12/1/2019, 3:50:39 AM7 votes

soraka is not just supposed to be a damn healer alone. it infuriates me to see her so weak for so long.

Total Violation12/1/2019, 7:40:46 AM6 votes

I retired Soraka years ago after maining her for two seasons, because it was clear Riot wanted her to be nothing but a walking blood bank. She should have been the premiere DPS support, damaging enemies to heal allies, be both malevolent and benevolent. The 2013 rework did deliver on this, but the numbers were so poorly executed. Then Riot broke her arms and legs in Season 6, and that was Soraka's downfall.

Soraka needs buffs, and power budget re-adjustment, to keep her in line with Senna and future enchanters. The game has changed and the standards for powerful and viable champions have changed since Soraka was last tweaked in a meaningful way.

What i would do is:

Revert her Q to its Season 5 state, but preserve the low mana cost and increase the AP ratio. Her Q will also heal her from jungle monsters. Successful center hit will reduce the cooldown of Q by 50%.

Remove the heal-over-time mechanic and convert it into a flat heal. Both self heal from Q and allied heal from W. Or, add mana regeneration to it, as she was the first and only champion to be able to give Mana to allies.

Remove the damage on her E, and instead make it act as a damage amplification zone. Meaning, all enemies standing in the zone will take increased damage from Soraka and her allies. The damage amp zone will presist after the root takes effect.

And finally, add a bonus passive: Soraka converts a % of her AP into Health.

This rework will cement Soraka's place as the Healer Mage DPS of the game, and will give her new, clear and viable playstyles, while still preserving her identity and everything Soraka mains like about her. She will no longer be just a one sided one dimensional bot lane slave. And perhaps, if my list of changes go trough, she will once again be a viable solo laner and maybe even jungler. One can only hope.

Pika Fox12/1/2019, 3:00:28 AM6 votes

Soraka has much better healing power, as well as an AoE silence.... and innately boosted heal power while people being healed are low on HP.

Soraka is a MUCH better healer than senna, who is split between heal/shield and damage, doing neither well but both adequately.

Also of note; Senna's heal/shields are skillshots.... and as we all know from playing lux.... players will do their best to dodge your defensive skillshots.

Crescent Dusk12/1/2019, 5:44:28 AM6 votes

Just played a game as Nunu where I had tabis+bami+bramble vest and she only had duskblade+dirk and somehow in one rotation she could delete 70% of my HP as a tank aftershock nunu. We were both the same level.

There's no point whatsoever to being a tank in this game given the damage some champions are putting out, it's ridiculous.

BrokenRayquaza12/1/2019, 6:01:17 PM5 votes

To be fair. Soraka heals ten times more than Senna and does it to the entire team. Senna's dmg is still not fair tho

Madra12/1/2019, 10:53:38 AM4 votes

I sort of feel like if Nami's auto attack slapped you for %Health after trading with her wave, people would be rightfully upset so I'm not sure why Riot designed a champion around doing exactly that. The whole character is a bunch of stats and bonuses to make the concept of an ADC support work.

zlajo12/1/2019, 11:50:28 AM4 votes

Senna's Q should not heal herself. Will reduce her dominance in solo lane and give her a clear weakness to capitalize on for enemies in bot lane.

ModBianca Colt12/1/2019, 3:52:10 AM3 votes

It's just a pile of "how much bullshit can we randomly stack on this champion and oh wait and let's give her enough extra-healing on the side that she can out-perform a Soraka during lane-phase".

I don't think she comes close to Soraka's healing in any way. Soraka's W is by far stronger and more accessible than Senna's Q (especially if you also max it first). Not to mention the healing she gets from her Q that she can conveniently transfer to her ally as well. Also, let's not forget about her R?

I would, however, nerf her damage output and increase the cooldown of her passive when it comes to harvesting souls from the same target.

Other than that, I personally don't find her that threatening.

Invexes12/1/2019, 9:44:11 PM3 votes

Senna defiantly does more damage that is also undogable, but it really bothers me how often poeple underestimate Sorakas damage if she can hit q's. That's probably just a side effect of my elo though.

Lacerations12/1/2019, 10:01:15 PM3 votes

senna need to get nerf >:(

ChaddyFantome12/1/2019, 10:26:21 PM3 votes

I dont understand why her Ult needed to be global on top of having such a fast cast time AND dealing a ton of damage.

AnubisDeathtouch12/2/2019, 7:26:10 AM3 votes

This may be slightly off topic, but it is another annoying advantage that Senna has over every other champ in her general class: I just discovered that Senna's gun bypasses windwall. Her root doesn't, but her gun does.