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Shen needs a full Rework

Penta Penguin·4/28/2015, 10:37:35 PM·27 votes·1,684 views

I don't know about anyone else, but I think Shen right now is really bad thematically and has a boring, hit-or-miss kit. However there is a direction here in Shen that isn't bad, and could be very good. The concept of a "tank ninja" is really dumb, but the concept of a "defensive ninja", something like a body-guard which Riot made mention of in the patch-notes, is valid.

Drop Defense Scaling for Defense Utility

Stacking up Health, Armor and Magic Resist just isn't what first comes to mind for a Ninja. Instead of stats and shields, Shen should have abilities that defend in ways similiar to Yasuo's Wind Wall. More interesting and thoughtful gameplay would also be nice. A ninja is about subterfuge, plotting and ninja bullshit magic; not sitting in top lane as an unkillable meatshield...

... with a Taunt? Really?

Of all the possible things you could do wrong as a ninja... This is probably #1. Again, as a body-guard style ninja, something that keeps the heat off your allies is not a bad idea. But a taunt is. When I play as Shen and land Shadow Dash, I don't feel like "Shen the awesome Ninja", but "Shen the okay tank". What's worse is that this is the sole ability Shen has that feels like a real moment of power, and if you miss it you just feel like an idiot.

What should he do, then?

Here is what I see as core features of Shen's identity that should stay;

-Teleporting in to assist an ally -"Get off my shit!" moment that maintains the point of Shadow Dash, but is not a taunt, maybe something more along the lines of being a scary Ninja (hint) -A throwing blade to add some range and poke -Sustain and defense for himself in lane

Here is how I would translate it...

From Stat-Man to a true, blue Ninja

Q: Keep his Vorpal Blade - The healing mark is not a big deal, but still feels a little weird and borderline useless late-game. Let's drop the healing mark, and add some more damage to this. Make it a skill-shot if necessary.

W: New function for Feint - This is one of Shen's defensive abilities, but is just shield right now. The new ability could do something like Fiora's parry. It blocks a basic attack, and then Shen poofs into stealth briefly to avoid further harass or look to continue a trade on his own terms. Shen could gain a moment of health regeneration while in the shadows, sustain moved over from the Q.

E: New ability "Intimidating Glare" - Shen now Fears a target enemy away from himself, AND away from the ally he has Ult'd to. This could remain a line skill-shot.

Now for a version of his ultimate that really feels like a Ninja's Ult, and not just a better summoner spell;

R: Stand United - This remains global, but when he starts channeling, Shen drops 3 Twilight Clones around the targeted ally. The clones deflect small projectiles in their radius (ranged autos, Ezreal Q, Ashe Volley arrows, etc.). Clones will also automatically attack any enemy champion in this radius (like Azir's soldiers).

When Shen arrives at the battle, the Clones retreat into him as Ki, and Stand United can be cast again 3 more times to send out the clones for repositioning.

Now the Kit is more in line with a Ninja thematically, and does not encourage building tanky. Shen is dangerous at all times with a more powerful Q and the ability to turn a trade around with W. His sustain is more conditional and can be played around by the opponent (trade with him until he tries to Feint, then move back).

EDIT: Shen players will know that feeling when your ult'd target dies anyway and you can't TP...

22 Comments

Aelvr4/29/2015, 6:34:36 AM2 votes

When I think "ninja bodyguard," I think of a blind more than either a taunt or an intimidate. Or stealthing his ally.

Silents4294/29/2015, 5:28:24 PM2 votes

Q: Keep his Vorpal Blade - The healing mark is not a big deal, but still feels a little weird and borderline useless late-game. Let's drop the healing mark, and add some more damage to this. Make it a skill-shot if necessary.

The healing mark gives him sustain in lane, allows him to do trades, and currently heals allies and himself if they target any marked champion. Far from useless, and is one of the reasons it is difficult to kill him. And at level 18 with 220 base damage and 60% AP scaling it does enough damage, for what it is for.

W: New function for Feint - This is one of Shen's defensive abilities, but is just shield right now. The new ability could do something like Fiora's parry. It blocks a basic attack, and then Shen poofs into stealth briefly to avoid further harass or look to continue a trade on his own terms. Shen could gain a moment of health regeneration while in the shadows, sustain moved over from the Q.

It is a shield the reduces the cooldown on his passive which does bonus damage and restores energy. The only real needed change is some light HP scaling for it, or higher base stats.

E: New ability "Intimidating Glare" - Shen now Fears a target enemy away from himself, AND away from the ally he has Ult'd to. This could remain a line skill-shot.

Do people misunderstand that as a tank forcing champions to hit you is a wet dream? Yeah thematically a Ninja isn't going to taunt someone, but as a bodyguard I have had my E save the day on so many occasions, turning it into a fear is a wasted change just because you want it to fit a ninja theme better.

R: Stand United - This remains global, but when he starts channeling, Shen drops 3 Twilight Clones around the targeted ally. The clones deflect small projectiles in their radius (ranged autos, Ezreal Q, Ashe Volley arrows, etc.). Clones will also automatically attack any enemy champion in this radius (like Azir's soldiers).

When Shen arrives at the battle, the Clones retreat into him as Ki, and Stand United can be cast again 3 more times to send out the clones for repositioning.

Why. Where in his lore or kit is it even hinted he is capable something like this. This change literally serves no purpose other then to make him flashy when ulting, blocking a couple projectiles does nothing new for him, the giant shield you gave the ally does.

Now the Kit is more in line with a Ninja thematically, and does not encourage building tanky. Shen is dangerous at all times with a more powerful Q and the ability to turn a trade around with W. His sustain is more conditional and can be played around by the opponent (trade with him until he tries to Feint, then move back).

I don't really understand, do you even play Shen? Or do you just see him and decide he needs a rework to this degree? Because none of this is in line with a how a Ninja is traditionally, or in line with his role or identity. You even go as far as saying a Ninja tank is dumb, so obviously you didn't really care much about the fact you are trying to give him more damage then he should have.

I imagine when reading about this you didn't take into account how insanely difficult it would be to 1v1 someone who fears, shields (Blocks AA), sustains off of you? I mean you obviously don't like his role as a tank hence this insulting line

and does not encourage building tanky

Oh god we wouldn't want a tank to be encouraged to build like a tank would we?

As a Shen main. I hate these changes, and don't like you trying to force a different role, and a non existent identity onto him when it seems the only motivation is to make him a big damage dealing ninja like Talon, Akali, and Zed when he isn't that at all.

Any real buffs he needs would be light HP scalings for his abilities, and his ult having a reduced cooldown if the allied target dies. Right now he is in a state where he does what his role needs him to do, he protects his allies well, and can dish out plenty of damage.

Boltmaster224/28/2015, 10:54:54 PM2 votes

that sounds really cool I hope they consider this concept

ayNigerianPrince4/29/2015, 6:37:48 AM1 votes

I feel like some sort of blind or vision impairing ability wouldn't be too bad thematically. I mean, ninja's blind their enemies, right? xD I think it would fit the style you're going for, but I don't know what type of ability it would have to be be. Targeted, small AoE, or just remain a dash. Though from what I can tell, dashing into the enemies like that is not the style you're going for. Plus I can't think of any way a dash could somehow blind someone in any realistic way. (Because, ya know, LoL is realistic...[insert most absurd content in the game])

Toraso4/29/2015, 1:46:50 PM1 votes

These are massive, massive buffs that will probably go overboard. You do understand you basically gave him 4 Braum E's alongside his regular ult?

Chaotic Reks4/29/2015, 3:02:39 PM1 votes

downvote me if you wish, but i think the only thing wrong with shen is his god awful W. his kit is intact as a ninja, he's just a beefy ninja who plays dirty (health = damage without building damage). Imo he fits the thematic as a ninja who plays with deception rather than killing power. His taunt, life tap, and passive kind of portray outside-the-box ninja stuff. honestly, if anyone fits the true ninja thematic, it's Zed

warpenguin5554/29/2015, 3:03:10 PM1 votes

hes getting one

Howlitzer204/29/2015, 3:08:45 PM1 votes

I like the way Shen is now, but I also really like this idea XD his ult sounds like great fun, and the stealth part of his W. His Shadow Dash I just find funny if I miss even when i'm trying to hit (gotta laugh things off) and I like the taunt effect personally. I think he's meant to be a tanky ninja since there wouldn't be any other to properly fit the role.

Sinlaire4/29/2015, 4:26:10 PM1 votes

Shen is already slated for a rework on the list. he's in there with ashe, yorik, taric, and the now reworked Ryze.

you can even see in the patch notes for 5.8 i believe where Riot themselves stated he's now a better body guard but still not a good ninja.

junglerboy164/30/2015, 2:11:56 PM1 votes

Ok...

First off, I agree that Shen needs a full blown rework, his kit is ineffectual, rather boring, and does not fit his theme in any reasonable way. That said, I think you are missing a few important ideas here.

Dropping defensive scaling for defensive utility is good. Ninjas are hard to kill because they are elusive, not because they wear a full coat or armor like a samurai. Shen if anything should be pushed more towards a solo-lane support champion than a solo-lane tank.

However, Shadow dash's taunt is not only his second most iconic ability, and one of the most iconic abilities in the game as a whole, but actually the most thematically sound. A ninja bodyguard dashing into you makes you try to fight back (taunt), but they are elusive and hard to hit (reduced damage). Shadow dash also offers the highest tension in his whole kit, in a similar fashion to how Alistar's WQ combo can be game changing, so can Shen's dash. Does it need a lot of changes to how it works? Probably. Should the core mechanic of dashing into enemies to taunt them stay? Absolutely.

Now for your kit Ideas.

Passive: you didn't even mention this, which confuses me since it is probably the worst offender in his whole kit when it comes to forcing him into being a tank, while also having the most toxic interactions in his kit outside his current Q (super uninteractive, free damage for being tanky, no player choice or strategy, no counterplay other than don't go near Shen). Shen is the "Eye of Twilight" but nothing he does offers any utility regarding vision. Maybe there could be a way to work that in as a passive of some sort, like attacking or damaging an enemy reveals them for X seconds, or maybe all vision range on his team is increased by X units (including minions, towers, pets, and champions), something interesting like that, and if he is dire need of some offensive steroid and a way to regain energy, that could be implemented elsewhere (like with some other ninjas in game).

Q: The team utility this spell offers is actually quite good, and changing it to not have the team heal would leave it as a completely bland lane harass tool (which is the part of his kit that nobody at Riot wants to keep). I think making it a skill shot could work, but it would have to deal more damage, more range, maybe have a diminishing energy cost with rank, and lastly I'd suggest changing the heal on-hit to % their missing HP, rather than % of Shen's max HP, to allow him to not have to build all tank to be useful.

W: I love the idea of giving him a dodge ability like this, however, I think it should also be cartable on allies. then make it if an enemy attempts to harm whoever he is currently protecting, he knocks them back dealing minor damage and gaining stealth briefly in order to reposition (something like 3 seconds of stealth, or possibly 1.5 seconds but with a massive MS steroid for the short duration. Moving the heal to this ability is a bad idea because Q's lifetap, although kind of strange thematically considering he is healing people by chucking a sword at enemies, is very good utility in terms of actual gameplay, and this heal replacement would hurt his team supporting.

E: I think Shadow dash has to stay in some way, shape, or form, and a simple skillshot fear is not nearly as "highly climactic" as a Shadow dash taunt. I've already explained my opinion on taunt in a ninja kit, so I'll skip to possible changes. Maybe make enemies that are taunted take increased damage from allies for the duration of the taunt, since they are vulnerable when trying to focus the ninja (this would synergize excellently with my idea for adjusting your let changes). Possibly they could also make the dash chargeable, like Vi's Q, where the longer he charges it the longer the enemies are taunted and the more damage reduction he receives, or maybe it costs less energy for the longer time spent "meditating" before the dash.

R: I like your idea here, although I would leave the change at just adding the three deflecting clones, and then instead of converging back to shen to be reused for positioning have them instead shadow dash away from shen and his target ally when he arrives, possibly setting up multiple taunts (this is that "get off my $#!T" moment you wanted) the clones would instead of auto attacking simply have HP equal to a portion of Shen's HP (like 20/35/50% max HP and with flat 50 armor and mr) and be there to soak damage and if the full teleport completes, set up a strong AoE CC for his team. Since they would have HP instead of presumably being untargetable, they could be destroyed before shen arrives, which offers counterplay. Adding in these clones would be a big buff to shen though, so I think they would have to nerf the shield proper by a bit (like 250/450/650 from 250/550/850), and possibly make it a flat amount (no more useless AP scaling, especially since Shen's new clones would scale off of his own stats).

Jellycake Demon4/28/2015, 11:14:15 PM1 votes

i gotta say this is a much better sounding Kit for a ninja Champion, i have Shen & play him often but i feel so weird. like the whole using myself as the "meatshield" as you have said & force enemies to attack me....this does not sound like a ninja at all. i actually agree to this of changing Shen's kit to suit a more defensive bodyguard than a balls deep suicide diver, i especially like the idea for the Ult having clones to the dirty work sounds like a ninja thing & the E sounds a lot better as a Fear than a Taunt.

hopefully someone form Riot will see this & consider it.

Neamean4/29/2015, 4:55:47 AM1 votes

what you say about ninja and tank is true they just don't mix well but Shen is more than a ninja he is the Eye of Twilight. _"Shen is one of these shadow warriors, entrusted with the sacred duty of Watching the Stars - exercising judgment untainted by prejudice." _and "dispassionately determine what must be done in the interests of equilibrium" which mean Shen cannot be faze by feeling of any kind. "As his final trial to ascend to this position, he was made to attend the Takanu, a ceremony in which his father was tortured before his eyes to test his resolve. Any reaction whatsoever would have resulted in his immediate disqualification" these are the reason why he is a tank and i believe he should be a tank

The only problem with this is Shen don't have great tools to be a tank and he I better fit to be a beefy bruiser/fighter think Shyvana or Olaf you try to jump into the back line and proceed smacking the squishy but Shen don't have good damage for that so he fail there as well he just don't have good tool because a lot of the the power in his kit goes into his ult