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Chroma Packs Should Be Free For Skins

Penta Penguin··114 votes·10,025 views

I understand that this is a free game, and Riot needs to generate a revenue somehow and wants to profit. But I question how far Riot needs to go to do so, and how much of a profit margin is okay before it becomes exploitation.

Considering:

  • Now three ultimate skins which cost almost $30, were only on sale for a few days and will never be on sale again, and each sale had progressively less value
  • The metric ton of other skins in this game, each one costing around $7 or more on average
  • The exorbitant IP costs and champions that can be purchased with real money instead
  • The never-ending increase of RP priced content that comes into the game
  • The massive fan-base (consumers) that this game has
  • The huge tournament events and venues that Riot can afford

It seems to me that League of Legends is bringing in far more revenue than the average F2P game, and the plays that Riot are making do not seem fair or considerate of their consumers.

It's been a few years since Riot stopped making plain recolors and selling them as skins, because they just couldn't do any better as a smaller and less experienced company. Now they're doing it again; and they still want to charge you for it, on top of the money you may have already paid for a skin that's getting a "Chroma". The Riot of today, with all their technical prowess and creative experience, still wants $5 for colors.

Is this fair?

A 1350-tier skin usually has a lot more going on than a 975, with new particles and sound effects on top of new modeling and textures.

But for 975+ 560, all you're getting (depending on which skins are getting the Chroma) is a new model, textures, and color options.

It's my conclusion that charging nearly $5 for color options - a traditionally free option in many games until recently when the F2P model took over - is exploitative, or dangerously close to being so.

I urge Riot to do the right thing, and offer the skin-based Chromas as Champion Mastery rewards as was mentioned. Put an IP price on it if you really have to pressure the fan-base any further, but please do not increase the RP cost of this game for these Chroma packs.

The F2P model gets a lot worse than this, and it's looking like Riot is headed in that direction. I hope we can avoid that. Look at a game like Smite, with it's fragmented purchases (skins, emotes, VOICES) and exclusive skins trapped in gambling schemes, and ask yourself if you really want League to go that far. Riot is a large and resourceful company, and is in a perfect position to set an example of integrity for F2P developers.

71 Comments

Noraver22 votes

Would actually like if I paid for a chroma with IP; For a skin I already own.

My friend has Dragon Fist Lee Sin, but he really likes the blue one. He also has 112,000~ IP. He isn't going to want to give Riot more money for a ten second colour variation, while he still has that much IP sitting around.

Jeddy0175 votes

Yeah,once you get all the champs & runes you need,IP becomes useless doesn't it?

Rew7114 votes

This is actually nice... If you can get to a certain level on your character, you can buy chromas for the skins, and if you get to the end, you get free chromas for the champion that are only unlock able per full level. Leveling system: Level 1: nothing Level 2: IP chromas for up to 750 RP skins. Level 3: IP chromas for up to 1350 RP skins. Level 4: IP chromas for up to 1820 RP skins. Level 5: Chromas for champion.

Sir Salt Me More2 votes

I agree, it would be a smart move for RIOT to charge in IP, but perhaps a rational demand would be that we can acquire the chroma for IP or RP. If they simply make the IP charge for a chroma great like 12,600 IP, then it will dissuade most people from paying in IP, but some die hards who main the champ will be willing to save for it anyway, or if they are impatient they can just pay in RP. It is fine and dandy for us to voice these ideas but if we truly want something like this to happen we have to make our voices big. The best way to do it is to spam them with this idea, or one similarly agreed upon by the community, and rejecting their current idea. The best way to do so would simply be refusing to purchase the chromas for RP. Is it worth making such a huge deal out of it? I think so. RIOT offering both avenues benefits everyone the most. People will want to play more to earn chromas for their champs and they still have a high chance of people simply buying the chromas. In order for RIOT to stay in the big picture as the years go on they will have to be the best at catering to the community. They are incredibly dependent upon us, and it is a little insulting that they want to charge us nearly $5 for a few skin variants that don't cost them a tremendous amount of time or effort to create. Of all the things they have come up with so far I would bet this is one of the most lucrative yet, and they can't wait to suck up our money.

Drunk Rummate15 votes

Agree. I've paid a huge amount for the skins that I have and to be frank it's not worth my money to go back and get them all in several colors. I would be extremely happy as a buyer if the chromas were made available as part of the skin package and very likely to buy more skins in the future as a result, but Riot can't expect a dime out of me for chromas separately.

Penta Penguin9 votes

It's a shame because a few of the colors so far are neat, like the dark gray Blitzcrank. But there's no way in hell I'm going to pay for it

Tylo Snoyer1 votes

Blitzcrank and Garen got the best of the Chroma Packs in my opinion.

Baron of Bread14 votes

You are saying that Riot is being exploitative because they are allowing you to purchase something cosmetic for their F2P game that you think costs to much. Saying a product is so expensive you won't buy it is fine, but saying a company is exploitative because their optional product that has no bearing on their base product other than a minor cosmetic effect costs more than you think it should is ridiculous. If offering a purely optional product that you don't want to pay for is exploitative then most of the world is beyond exploitative (which is arguably true).

And a quick answer to this question of yours:

Is this fair?

Short answer: YES.

Long Answer: The producer of a good/service has every right to place whatever value they want on said good/service and charge for that amount. If any consumer decides that the good/service is not of the value the producer charges for it, they have every right to not buy it. If enough consumers decide to not buy it at that value the producer is forced to reduce the value to where more consumers judge it to be worth the charge and thus buy it. Of course, this only works in a non-regulated economy, which is the case here. As such, if you want the chroma packs to cost less then don't buy them and hope that your cost assessment is similar to other's cost assessments. If all goes according to plan and the packs are to expensive then the cost will go down if Riot wants to sell many. If not, then the masses have disagreed with you and decided that the packs are worth the cost. At which point you can either decide you still don't want to spend the money or decide to re-assess the pack's worth.

Stark60001 votes

in a perfect world sure. However in this game there are teenagers with their parents CC that buy whatever the fuck they want. So logical consumers don't matter to riot because they are still making sales. Basically we can't stand up and not buy something because of the variation in consumer types.

Keonyn5 votes

{quoted}

in a perfect world sure. However in this game there are teenagers with their parents CC that buy whatever the fuck they want. So logical consumers don't matter to riot because they are still making sales. Basically we can't stand up and not buy something because of the variation in consumer types.

That's a really dumb argument. If parents are dumb enough to give their kids free reign with their credit cards then they deserve whatever silly charges the kid puts on there, whether it's to make Lucian's clothes yellow or for a massive collection of tentacle hentai. It is not Riot's responsibility to ensure that their pricing doesn't inspire kids to steal money from their parents.

Tylo Snoyer1 votes

Economics 101: A Crash Course with Baron of Bread

TJKDeity11 votes

I agree. It would mean a lot to the community if Riot did something purely just for us to enjoy. I would benefit Riot anyway because it would get more people playing and increase the amount of loyal fans in the community.

Penta Penguin12 votes

The colors would also further incentivize buying the skin. Dragon Fist Lee Sin is a good example of a skin that might not be purchased by someone, but would be once they see a better color for it.

Free Chromas might still turn a profit.

Ardond8 votes

{quoted}

It would mean a lot to the community if Riot did something purely just for us to enjoy.

you mean like URF mode?

I GONNA FK ON U8 votes

Adding the 1350 rp tier (and making that the standard for decent skins) was bad enough. Riot is out of their fucking minds with this recolor shit, especially on skins you already pay for.

Penta Penguin3 votes

Yeah, some of the skin prices are very high. But the chromas are something we might be able to change.

SeductiveGrandpa8 votes

Wait on a second, lets just hope they do the whole : Champ Mastery = Chroma thing instead of the whole paying for chromas in the end.

The Vilemaw Icon2 votes

This is clearly optimal, although I think we need to be prepared for some combination of champ mastery and IP costs in the very best case scenario.

Silents4298 votes

How dare Riot want to seek other forms of income without resorting to pay to win methods most free to play games resort too.

I mean who do they think they are wanting to feed there families and god forbid have them hire more people to make content come out faster and of higher quality right?

Nah. Lets complain about cheap recolors and how Riot is "milking there fanbase"

xX420n0sc0pzXx1 votes

{quoted}

How dare Riot want to seek other forms of income without resorting to pay to win methods most free to play games resort too.

I mean who do they think they are wanting to feed there families and god forbid have them hire more people to make content come out faster and of higher quality right?

Nah. Lets complain about cheap recolors and how Riot is "milking there fanbase"

I mean who do they think they are wanting to feed there families and god forbid have them hire more people to make content come out faster and of higher quality right?

The rate at which champs are released has dramatically decreased and if they're making recolors the quality hasn't been getting better.

Silents4294 votes

The champion rate decreases because champions go through longer periods of creation now. It was harder to balance things when they released champions every other week. According to reds.

if they're making recolors the quality hasn't been getting better.

Don't know what you are talking about the recolors are top notch and do just what they say. They recolor a champion and obviously people wouldn't be so bent out of shape if they didn't have interest in owning some of these.

Aerothal6 votes

why do you guys always want free things? people work on that stuff and they deserve to get paid.

I GONNA FK ON U10 votes

Riot can literally sell one chroma pack and they will have made back all the money it cost them to "develop" it.

Jubbinaut10 votes

You're suggesting that the artist who worked on it was paid less than minimum wage. Even neglecting to consider other costs, that's an unreasonable statement.

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

Only if the minimal duration you can pay him for is an hour. In that case, make him do 10 chromas in that one hour. and sell one of each. You got your minimal wage.

Jubbinaut5 votes

That's not what he said. He stated one chroma pack. Which has an approximate USD value of $5.63 - source. I would estimate ~30 minutes of work per chroma (based on this poster's inexperienced work taking about an hour).

That means selling one pack would mean ~$5.00 for 1.5 hours of work. Which is well below minimum wage.

jjwebb4 votes

I looked at the second link you posted. I read through it and ended up on the Zac recolor. The poster commented it took them about 5 MINUTES to make those changes. Those kinds of changes are what I'm seeing on the PBE. Not full blown skin changes that he did to nidalee. Even the ones that do cover a lot of the skin, like the Lee Sin one, are very basic changes. They would take at most 15 minutes to do. However, riot has the resources necessary already. They have the individual characters on their system already. They don't have to rip them from their own game.

You're drastically over estimating the amount of work riot has to do based off of what this person did with Nidalee. Honestly with what they are doing, it would take about 5 minutes per chroma at most. Since there are 3 in a pack, that would be 15 minutes per pack at most. Minimum wage includes all work in an hour, so the expected price should be minimum wage /4 + profit to riot for the minimum price. ~$5.00 for about 15 minutes of work is plenty above minimum wage, especially since the overall quality compared to the base skins and paid for skins aren't that great.

Edit: Also, they not only modified the ENTIRE nidalee skin, but they also modified the PARTICLES of the skin. This is something that riot is NOT doing for the chromas.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

I looked at the second link you posted. I read through it and ended up on the Zac recolor. The poster commented it took them about 5 MINUTES to make those changes. Those kinds of changes are what I'm seeing on the PBE. Not full blown skin changes that he did to nidalee. Even the ones that do cover a lot of the skin, like the Lee Sin one, are very basic changes. They would take at most 15 minutes to do. However, riot has the resources necessary already. They have the individual characters on their system already. They don't have to rip them from their own game.

The Zac change was a matter of changing one thing - Zac has no notable color features, being a solid green blob. It's only reasonable to expect that to take a fraction of the time it would take to make any chroma that involves multiple colors - especially if you're taking the time to actually make it look worth a damn. As such, I do not believe that his experience with the Zac chroma is safe to base an average off of - rather, I think it safer to think of that as the bottom bound.

Which is why I gave an estimate of about half an hour - frankly, what I've seen so far from Riot involves rather more attention to detail than the person that made that post was demonstrating. I'd expect some to be quick and easy (Zac, for example), and others to be extremely complicated (Rumble, perhaps).

Still, I'm okay with an average of 15 minutes per chroma.

At $5 for 45 minutes (0.75 hours) of work, it works out to about $6.67/hr. Which is still significantly less than California's minimum wage of $9.00/hr.

You're drastically over estimating the amount of work riot has to do based off of what this person did with Nidalee.

I also accounted for his experience with Foxfire Ahri - edited in after the initial post - which took him ~30 minutes for fairly minor changes.

EDIT: But I want to thank you for at least addressing the specific question, rather than trying to move the goalposts.

jjwebb1 votes

{quoted}

Still, I'm okay with an average of 15 minutes per chroma.

At $5 for 45 minutes (0.75 hours) of work, it works out to about $6.67/hr. Which is still significantly less than California's minimum wage of $9.00/hr.

That 15 minute average is with all 3 chromas in a pack taken in consideration. At ~$5 for 15 minutes, it would work out to about $20.00/hr.

{quoted}

The Zac change was a matter of changing one thing

In most cases that I've seen so far (Lucian, Fizz, Blitzcrank, etc.) They only really change one thing. For Lucian, they changed the top part of his shirt, for Fizz, they changed the blue color, for Blitzcrank, they changed his base color. It's pretty much the exact same thing. On top of that, the overall quality of the skins are much lower, since they don't really match what was unchanged or the characters themselves.

While I don't necessarily agree with them being free, I think they are too expensive for what they are trying to do.

Keonyn2 votes

The time it takes is irrelevant, because business is about management of the whole. While it might take Riot a small amount of time to do the color changes, that doesn't necessarily mean that that is their only value. What about the time done on new modes, balance changes, graphical improvements, etc? Sure, you're quantifying the monetary value of these items, all while ignoring the fact that Riot continuously provides you with content that costs them substantially more to produce and at no charge to you as the player. Business is a balancing act, and Riot is a business, whether you like it or not. If you don't want the purely cosmetic items then don't buy them.

Jubbinaut1 votes

All of these are valid and important points to the overall discussion, but here, you're moving the goalposts.

The question we're debating is simply: does the price of a single Chroma pack cover at least minimum wage for the artist working on it.

EDIT: Fixed a typo. "All of things"? What the hell?

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

All of things are valid and important points to the overall discussion, but here, you're moving the goalposts.

The question we're debating is simply: does the price of a single Chroma pack cover at least minimum wage for the artist working on it.

But can you really expect a mass produced item to cover the wage of the artist from a single sale?

Jubbinaut1 votes

Heavens, no! But nor am I the one who set that bar.

If I'm to be entirely honest, I would be utterly disgusted to find out Riot was paying their artists merely minimum wage (my fiance is an artist, so I'm a little biased there).

Nor would I expect them to make only a single sale, or to price based on that - I'd expect full cost coverage (which isn't merely the artist's pay) to be covered in, say, 500 sales (to pick an arbitrary number).

If I were to expound on my full opinions on the matter, I'd say I could see them remaining RP, though I'd like other options. But I would love for the cost to be somewhat lower - dropping to or below 400 per pack would be particularly interesting.

After all, every account gets 400 RP - giving something cosmetic to purchase with that may well encourage more spending later - while necessitating more purchasing.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted}

Heavens, no! But nor am I the one who set that bar.

If I'm to be entirely honest, I would be utterly disgusted to find out Riot was paying their artists merely minimum wage (my fiance is an artist, so I'm a little biased there).

Nor would I expect them to make only a single sale, or to price based on that - I'd expect full cost coverage (which isn't merely the artist's pay) to be covered in, say, 500 sales (to pick an arbitrary number).

If I were to expound on my full opinions on the matter, I'd say I could see them remaining RP, though I'd like other options. But I would love for the cost to be somewhat lower - dropping to or below 400 per pack would be particularly interesting.

After all, every account gets 400 RP - giving something cosmetic to purchase with that may well encourage more spending later - while necessitating more purchasing.

Fair enough.

For me, not that I have a huge stake given I no longer play, I feel that they should be broken up and a bit cheaper. I'd like to see them be priced at 150 per chroma, or 400 for a 3-pack(I posted an arbitrary value in a thread elsewhere without really thinking about what I'd be comfortable with so if you see that it's just meant as an example, not my actual opinion ;)) with that champion mastery system they're working on offering a 25% discount off any chromas for that champion.

That'd be my threshhold for what I'd be willing to pay if I were to start playing again.

Jubbinaut1 votes

That's actually a great idea for tying in Mastery! I love it! Upboats for you.

EDIT: I can't type today. Fixed another typo.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

That 15 minute average is with all 3 chromas in a pack taken in consideration. At ~$5 for 15 minutes, it would work out to about $20.00/hr.

As I said, however, I don't believe that to be a safe estimate. It's unlikely that the average time per chroma is so low.

Frankly, any average greater than ~10 minutes per chroma yields a cost greater than $9.00 per hour of work, and I honestly can't imagine it being less than that.

In most cases that I've seen so far (Lucian, Fizz, Blitzcrank, etc.) They only really change one thing. For Lucian, they changed the top part of his shirt, for Fizz, they changed the blue color, for Blitzcrank, they changed his base color. It's pretty much the exact same thing. On top of that, the overall quality of the skins are much lower, since they don't really match what was unchanged or the characters themselves.

Lucian's change may only represent one article of clothing/part of the body, but there's multiple parts within that that are changed. The same can be noted of the Garen, Leona, Jax, and Lee Sin chromas (with Pool Party Leona having almost every aspect of her clothing changed). I will grant that Fizz and Blitz are more simplistic, particularly due to the fact that most of their interesting features are texture-based rather than shifts or changes of color, but they seem to be an exception in terms of champion type, rather than a rule.

While I don't necessarily agree with them being free, I think they are too expensive for what they are trying to do.

I don't necessarily disagree, though I'm comfortable with the price-point itself. I think, if nothing else, we need to see other options for obtaining them. Nasreth made a comment in another thread that I particularly liked: "I should be given a choice of one color that I want when I initially purchase the skin."

I love the idea of being able to customize skin purchases, though I think the tech to handle that would take a while to implement (I don't think even the PBE client can currently handle owning the skin, but not the base chroma of the skin).

It might also be interesting to see packs priced based on how much work/time that pack took.

Loken Stoneheart1 votes

{quoted}

That's not what he said. He stated one chroma pack. Which has an approximate USD value of $5.63 - source. I would estimate ~30 minutes of work per chroma (based on this poster's inexperienced work taking about an hour).

That means selling one pack would mean ~$5.00 for 1.5 hours of work. Which is well below minimum wage.

If it was a physical good, this would matter.

Its a digital good though, so they can sell the same item a theoretical infinite amount of times. If they sell, say, three packs in grand total across every single LoL player in the world, they've payed for the skin.

The business world totally changed when we moved from physical to digital goods. Digital goods, once produced, can be sold until there are no more customers. There is no "supply," only demand. They will always match demand, and it costs them no more to make say... 1 copy of blue Lucian chroma, then it does to make 1 million.

Jubbinaut1 votes

At no point have I failed to understand this. You're, like, the 4th person to mention it.

The problem is, it's moving the goalposts. I didn't set the bar in the discussion, I merely addressed what was stated by another. And while you bring up perfectly valid points regarding the larger issue, they don't speak at all to what I was actually addressing.

PapaGreg216 votes

[deleted]

Tilting in Bots5 votes

garden

my favorite champion

ShaftyMegee4 votes

If you don't think it's worth it... then don't buy it. As you said at the beginning of your post, this is a free game. You don't have to spend a dime on this game and have just as much fun as someone who has spent 100$

Matthevv3 votes

As it is now I will never buy a chroma pack. What the hell is Riot thinking charging so much for this? Why were recolours unacceptable before and now acceptable again? This is bullshit.

Dunkrius2g2 votes

How about it costs 2 times the RP of that skin in IP? E.g. Dunkmaster Darius. 1820*2= 3640 IP for either All recolors or 1 of them. Should apply for all skins. Base skins should be 1k IP each OR you can earn them through Mastery Thingy Champion only.

TL:DR 2x the Rp of skin to IP e.g. 975 RP * 2= 1950IP for either 1 or all 3 recolors for skins. For base skins, earn through Champion Mastery EDIT: I barely buy skins. The only skin I have is Woad King Darius and that was cuz of a discount. If it does cost RP, I won't buy it BUT this is just me. It'll be different for everyone else.

r11na2 votes

Don't buy it and they will be forced to change it. I've spent money on skins I appreciate the effort and time put into them and it supports the game also.

But you've got to be straight up insane to spend money on Chroma packs (fk that i'm not calling them chroma packs, I'm calling them what they are: Palette Swaps) A 5 minute palette swap in MS Paint. This should be bundled with skins or purchasable with IP, not sold separately for RP.

Głacıes2 votes

The game itself is free. League of Legends is not a pay to win game and you should be thankful for that. If you don't want to pay money for in game luxuries then simply don't, if you like the game enough, if you like the skin enough, don't complain about having to pay for it. You yourself said that Riot needs some sort of profit for all the expenses of this game and that is how they get it, I honestly don't understand what you are trying to get at here. Riot is a business.

Takeuchi 171 votes

I would really like people to stop trying to label Riot as a greedy cash machine without even knowing Riots profit margins and investments. seriously. if you dont want them to provide you with the game, which is free to play, or with new champs, skins, game modes, merchandise (like their new store provides), or events like LCS, which I'd bet they contribute a fair amount to, then dont complain.

That being said. if someone can provide all this statistical info on what they make, what they spend, where they spend it, how much they pay their employees, how much they pay themselves (ie owners/ceos etc) and its found that they are really greedy and are making way too much money. then i'll rescind this statement and join the crowd of hate.

Penta Penguin1 votes

I don't care about merchandise or officially sponsored events much, but that's just me.

Riot was already providing all of that before this idea came up. I don't think offering chromas for IP or Champion Mastery instead of, or along with RP will change that. Financial data isn't required to infer that.

Daunzo1 votes

Riots on some fkn kush if they wanna charge us for these skins. All i know is that these skins shouldn't even be worth a dime.

richardqiqi1 votes

AGREE!!!! SUPPORT!!!! RESPECT!!!!

Tylo Snoyer1 votes

I have no idea what kind of work goes into developing a skin or a champion or anything like that. That being said, the Chroma Packs are just color swaps. If it's more work than going into the developing software and selecting all of color "X" so it can be changed to color "Y," Riot might have some validation in charging for these skins.

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