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[New Item] Mana Orb, New builpaths for mage items

Nekusen··4 votes·1,236 views

(this was a post in Balance but for some reason they made me post it here)

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 (Unrelated to Orb of Winter item, it's just a "cool" icon)

Option 1: item 1027 + 300g = total 650g http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 250 Mana 10% CDR

**Option 2: **item 1027 + item 1052 + 315g = 1100 g http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 25 AP 250 Mana 10% CDR

(Probably the first option is better as the second comes close to item 3108)

New Buildpath: item 3165 http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 + item 3108 + item 1052 Mana regeneration removed ----> 360 mana added.

Possible other items built from it:

Haunted Tome http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 + item 3113 80 AP 7% Movement Speed 250 Mana 10% CDR Unique Active: After 0.75 seconds (firing animation), fire a straight line ray that stops at the first enemy champion it hits (1200 range), dealing 15% of the target max hp (+30% AP) as magic damage and slowing him 40% for 2.5 seconds. (50 seconds cooldown)

Demonic Mask item 3136 + http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 + item 1052 300 HP 80 AP 300 Mana 10% CDR Unique Passive: Eye of Pain: 15 magic penetration Unique Passive: Gain 10% CDR as long as you have a DoT effect (or debuff?) on a target.

Overload Staff (only buyable by champions with a mana bar) item 1026 + http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101
80 AP 300 Mana 10% CDR Unique passive: Builds Charge Stacks when casting spells, up to 4 charges, they disappear after 5 seconds of not adding charges. Each Charge Stack increases your spells mana costs by 8% and grants you 15 ability power. (Max 32% increased costs and 60 AP)

Attunement Staff item 1058 + http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 + item 1052 100 AP 300 Mana 10% CDR Unique Passive: Whenever you deal spell damage, gain mana equal to 10% of the damage dealt. (1/3 effective with AoE)

Bonus:

Void Cloak item 1058 + item 3191 + item 1033

100 AP 15 MR 15 Armor 10% CDR Unique Passive: After dealing spell damage gain 20 Armor and 20 MR for 3 seconds. (does not stack)

Lich's Aspect (or possible alternative to item 3152 ) 3 Possibilities for this item came across.

**Option 1 item 3136 + item 3145 ** 90 AP 10% CDR Unique Passive: Eye of Pain: 15 Magic Penetration.

(Unique Passive: Whenever your health reaches critical levels, gain a shield that absorbs 200 damage for 5 seconds, 40sec cooldown.)

Unique Passive Lich: After casting a spell, you next damaging spell within 4 seconds heals you over 4 seconds for 40% of the damage it deals, 8 seconds cooldown.

**Option 2 item 3191 + item 3145 ** 90 AP 50 Armor 10% CDR

(Unique Passive: Whenever your health reaches critical levels, gain a shield that absorbs (50% AP) damage for 5 seconds, 40sec cooldown.)

Unique Passive Lich: After casting a spell, you next damaging spell within 4 seconds heals you over 4 seconds for 40% of the damage it deals, 8 seconds cooldown.

**Option 3 ** http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 + item 3145 90 AP 300 Mana 10% CDR

(Unique Passive: Whenever your health reaches critical levels, gain a shield that absorbs (15% Max Mana) damage for 5 seconds, 40sec cooldown.)

Unique Passive Lich: After casting a spell, you next damaging spell within 4 seconds heals you over 4 seconds for 40% of the damage it deals, 8 seconds cooldown.

10 Comments

Bootleg Gay2 votes

Turn the Lich's Aspect to gain a shield based on mana, let it build off the mana orb, then tweak the numbers. I like that idea just a bit more than your original. Gives tankier mages a nice niche item.

I really like the Overload Staff, although I think it should grant a bit more mana just to offset the passive. Maybe from 250 to 350. It might also need to go to 100 AP, but with a higher cost. Not sure on the last part though. Would also need to build out of Needlessly Large Rod then too.

I like a few of these ideas, but honestly, I think we'd only have room for two or three of them. Some also add a few odd things that aren't interesting, like the CDR for dealing damage over time.

Getting upvote though.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

HAUNTED TOME IS OP. But I like everything but the active. The active just gives you an extra ability.

I like Demonic Mask.

I think Overload Staff is very interesting. I would probably build on every mage just to see what happened. So it's good.

Attunement Staff is a little strong, but it's a cool idea.

I love Void Cloak.

I would remove one of Lich's Aspects passives. Or drastically reduce the stats. It has too much on it.

Great ideas though.

~CrimsonCobra3

WakkaSeta1 votes

{quoted}

Haunted Tome http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 + item 3113 80 AP 7% Movement Speed 250 Mana 10% CDR Unique Active: After 0.75 seconds, fire a straight line ray that stops at the first enemy champion it hits (1200 range), dealing 15% of the target max hp (+30% AP) as magic damage and slowing him 40% for 2.5 seconds.

This is basically a skillshot based Deathfire Grasp http://cdn.championcounter.com/images/items/3128-deathfiregrasp.png?v=1421912021000 mixed with BOTRK item 3153 , isn't it? As for the item itself, the AP It gives seems pretty high for that active and for something building out of just Aether Wisp item 3113 and a mana item. The lack of cooldown timer also gives me the impression that the active is spammable?

{quoted}

Overload Staff item 1026 +http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101
80 AP 250 Mana 10% CDR Unique passive: Builds Charge Stacks when casting spells, up to 4 charges, they disappear after 5 seconds of not adding charges. Each Charge Stack increases your spells mana costs by 8% and grants you 15 ability power. (Max 32% increased costs and 60 AP)

Ryze and Ziggs would probably love this. 80 AP for an item that only builds out of Blasting wand and a mana item seems pretty high though.

{quoted}

Attunement Staff item 1058 + http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Orb_of_Winter_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710101101 + item 1052 100 AP 300 Mana 10% CDR Unique Passive: Whenever you deal spell damage, gain mana equal to 10% of the damage dealt.

If it steals mana off of damage to minions, then AOE mages could potentially get super mana sustain off of this. Actually, with those stats and that effect, this might actually outclass Athene's item 3174 as the mana sustain item.

{quoted}

Lich's Aspect (or possible alternative to item 3152 ) item 3136 + item 3145 100 AP 10% CDR Unique Passive: Eye of Pain: 15 Magic Penetration. Unique Passive: Whenever your health reaches critical levels, gain a shield that absorbs 200 damage for 5 seconds, 40sec cooldown. Unique Passive Lich: After casting a spell, you next damaging spell within 4 seconds heals you over 4 seconds for 40% of the damage it deals, 8 seconds cooldown.

[item 3136 could be changed for item 3191, so it grants 50 armor instead of 15 magic penetration ]

This one strikes me as the weirdest of all the items. 100+ AP tends to be reserved for items that build out of Needlessly Large Roditem 1058 . Having it build out of Revolver item 3145 and Haunting Guise item 3136 but not offer any natural Spell Vamp or health... well, that seems like a waste. Like Psychodrive said, having it build out of the Mana Orb and making the shield based off mana (with a base value based on level for added measure) would make it make a bit more sense.

All in all, the concept is interesting, but the numbers (mainly the AP) seem a little high for those recipes, and some of the effects are close to OP if they don't get restrictions. Also, keep in mind that you basically designed the Mana Orb as a tier 2 version of Sapphire Crystal item 1027 , which means it would be competing with the other tier 2 Sapphire Crystal items (item 3070, item 3010, item 3057, and item 3024 ) and the items ** they** build into.

Nekusen1 votes

{quoted}

This is basically a skillshot based Deathfire Grasp http://cdn.championcounter.com/images/items/3128-deathfiregrasp.png?v=1421912021000 mixed with BOTRK item 3153 , isn't it? As for the item itself, the AP It gives seems pretty high for that active and for something building out of just Aether Wisp item 3113 and a mana item. The lack of cooldown timer also gives me the impression that the active is spammable?

thanks for that, i forgot to add the cooldown.

The item is kinda a reimagination of the old http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/4/4b/Twin_Shadows_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710102449 (twin shadows), but as it's active was given to the new item 3092, i thought of a a rework of the old item 3092's active that didn't such. As it scaled with AP that kinda draws supports from getting it, though it doesn't do lots of damage.

Ryze and Ziggs would probably love this. 80 AP for an item that only builds out of Blasting wand and a mana item seems pretty high though.

An item 1052 could be added into the mix, lets remember that item 3165 used to get its AP only from a item 3108 . This is supposed to be a relatively cheap item (2k - 2.5k) with a not so smooth buildpath to compensate.

If it steals mana off of damage to minions, then AOE mages could potentially get super mana sustain off of this. Actually, with those stats and that effect, this might actually outclass Athene's item 3174 as the mana sustain item.

Like with spellvamp and slows, if it shows to be a problem could be reduced to 1/3 efficiency to AoE effects. (just added that to the OP)

This one strikes me as the weirdest of all the items. 100+ AP tends to be reserved for items that build out of Needlessly Large Roditem 1058 . Having it build out of Revolver item 3145 and Haunting Guise item 3136 but not offer any natural Spell Vamp or health... well, that seems like a waste. Like Psychodrive said, having it build out of the Mana Orb and making the shield based off mana (with a base value based on level for added measure) would make it make a bit more sense.

All in all, the concept is interesting, but the numbers (mainly the AP) seem a little high for those recipes, and some of the effects are close to OP if they don't get restrictions. Also, keep in mind that you basically designed the Mana Orb as a tier 2 version of Sapphire Crystal item 1027 , which means it would be competing with the other tier 2 Sapphire Crystal items (item 3070, item 3010, item 3057, and item 3024 ) and the items ** they** build into.

thanks for the comment, ill look into changing it, my worry is a mana shield overlapping with seraphs though. Also remember item 3152 doesn't actually provide spellvamp, this passive was intended for combo mages or burst that dont do sustained damage to justify spellvamp but can utilize this passive due to the bursts of regen. item 3027 and item 3041 have the potential of reaching +100, but will look into it.

Nekusen1 votes

UPDATE:

Considered some suggestions and made tweaks.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Attunement Staff is still OP, because 10% of the damage dealt is almost always more than the cost. I suggest it be triggered on every fourth ability or some such. Maybe if you built Overload staff it would be too bad, but then Overload Staff is OP.

And I still think Haunted Tome is too much like an extra ability, but other than that, they all look a lot better.

Nekusen1 votes

Consider its calculated after resistances, lets say an ability does 300 raw damage and costs 80 mana, 10% of that would be 30mana, and that considering 0% damage reduction, early game could be even worse as the correlation between mana costs and dmg tends to be worse. Also consider that not all spells deal damage, and skillshots might end up doing no damage if they miss. In perspective, mana is a cheaper stat than hp.

About Haunted Tome, i thought of making it build just from those items (instead of adding an extra item 1052 ) as kind of a setback to make it's buidpath less smooth, kinda like it was with Twin Shadows.

What part of Overload Staff seems OP ? if i could see that, maybe i could think out a nerf if necessary, the one i could think of is making the penalty extra mana last longer than the AP bonus. In general is an item that punishes sustain and poke while shining in combo situations. Other potential nerf could be reducing the mana it grants, perhaps making it give even less than 250 if necessary.

Thanks for the input :)

CrimsonCobra31 votes

{quoted}

Consider its calculated after resistances, lets say an ability does 300 raw damage and costs 80 mana, 10% of that would be 30mana, and that considering 0% damage reduction, early game could be even worse as the correlation between mana costs and dmg tends to be worse. Also consider that not all spells deal damage, and skillshots might end up doing no damage if they miss. In perspective, mana is a cheaper stat than hp.

About Haunted Tome, i thought of making it build just from those items (instead of adding an extra item 1052 ) as kind of a setback to make it's buidpath less smooth, kinda like it was with Twin Shadows.

What part of Overload Staff seems OP ? if i could see that, maybe i could think out a nerf if necessary, the one i could think of is making the penalty extra mana last longer than the AP bonus. In general is an item that punishes sustain and poke while shining in combo situations. Other potential nerf could be reducing the mana it grants, perhaps making it give even less than 250 if necessary.

Thanks for the input :)

You're welcome. :)

Overload Staff is generally fine, it grants a total of 140 AP when stacked, but it has a steep cost. (Note that it needs to be specified as purchasable by mana users only.) I was saying that combined with Attunement Staff it is OP. Because Attunement Staff negates the cost of Overload Staff.

And Attunement Staff is generally a questionable item (getting mana back by means of the very reason you lost it is generally something Riot avoids) but I don't really care what Riot thinks, the real problem is with high base-damage mages. They usually have steep mana costs, but if they itemize correctly they could deal enough damage to return all/more mana. A detail that could make this work is if it only worked on damage dealt to champions. [I know you have the 1/3 for AoE, but in a large minion wave, or even just an ability or two used on a jungle camp, the damage dealt to creeps, who usually have less resistances, would be quite large. This stacks with Overload staff, allowing you to keep Overload Staff stacked without suffering the cost of it's mana cost increase.]

~CrimsonCobra3

Nekusen1 votes

{quoted}

You're welcome. :)

Overload Staff is generally fine, it grants a total of 140 AP when stacked, but it has a steep cost. (Note that it needs to be specified as purchasable by mana users only.) I was saying that combined with Attunement Staff it is OP. Because Attunement Staff negates the cost of Overload Staff.

And Attunement Staff is generally a questionable item (getting mana back by means of the very reason you lost it is generally something Riot avoids) but I don't really care what Riot thinks, the real problem is with high base-damage mages. They usually have steep mana costs, but if they itemize correctly they could deal enough damage to return all/more mana. A detail that could make this work is if it only worked on damage dealt to champions. [I know you have the 1/3 for AoE, but in a large minion wave, or even just an ability or two used on a jungle camp, the damage dealt to creeps, who usually have less resistances, would be quite large. This stacks with Overload staff, allowing you to keep Overload Staff stacked without suffering the cost of it's mana cost increase.]

~CrimsonCobra3

Thanks for that, i just clarified about Overload only obtainable by mana champs. Im not sure Attunement would completely negate the cost of Overload, but wouldn't be so bad either way, it would be a combo that would require 2 items, and it would as well negate Attunement passive. Also remember abilities have cooldown, unlike autoattacks, so charges that stack with abilities are highly limited, and unlike item 3124 that grants attack speed (which makes stacking up even easier) costing mana makes it harder to stack. So unless you start the battle with all you cooldowns, there would be limitations like:

  • your first spells would deal less damage as they'll have less stacks.
  • skillshots that fail and non-damage spells will not add stacks.
  • stacks fade away faster than most cooldowns.
CrimsonCobra31 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for that, i just clarified about Overload only obtainable by mana champs. Im not sure Attunement would completely negate the cost of Overload, but wouldn't be so bad either way, it would be a combo that would require 2 items, and it would as well negate Attunement passive. Also remember abilities have cooldown, unlike autoattacks, so charges that stack with abilities are highly limited, and unlike item 3124 that grants attack speed (which makes stacking up even easier) costing mana makes it harder to stack. So unless you start the battle with all you cooldowns, there would be limitations like:

  • your first spells would deal less damage as they'll have less stacks.
  • skillshots that fail and non-damage spells will not add stacks.
  • stacks fade away faster than most cooldowns.

I'm thinking Ryze and Evelynn.

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