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Braum and his Massive... Monologues

Remlap1223··2 votes·3,270 views

Braum... Braum has a ton of quotes. If I'm not mistaken, it is very close to the amount that Spirit Guard Udyr has. Which brings me to my point: what's the point of paying 1850 RP or even 3250 RP when classic skins get more dialogue than the Legendaries, and almost as much as Ultimates? I really wanted Gentleman Cho'Gath, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of point in getting the skins due to its lackluster amount of substance to it. Sure he's got completely different dialogue, but so does his Battlecast skin, although that has at least 4x as much for the same price, in addition to different animations. I think that this is a huge problem, and will negatively impact sales of the skins. The way I see it there are 3 options: retire the skins in the legacy vault, slash the prices to imperial or epic skins, or rework the skins to increase their value. I wouldn't mind spending the money on legendary skins, as I own 2 as well as both ultimates, as long as they have some inherent value to them. And as of right now, the old legendary skins are aging roughly about the same rate as milk does in the sun Twitch ...

21 Comments

RiotRiot Whist5 votes

We want to add as much value as we can to everything we make. We were adding to Braum up until the last minute. Our standards have gone way up as time has gone on.

Any legendary we release will be much more elaborate than the base, or any of the other skins.

Remlap12231 votes

I'm glad I got a reply on this from a red. My point being was are we going back to the old legendary skins? I have a little bit of a problem with self-control on buying skins in this game, and it would be your best interest from a business standpoint to perhaps update the older skins as a result of your newfound resources, or simply slash prices. I appreciate the response though.

RiotRiot Whist4 votes

Sadly I do not see us updating old legendary skins at this point in time with out a VU. (this of course can change, but it seems silly to spend that effort only to have to redo it all again when we do the VU)

We haven't done a VU for a champion with a legendary skin yet so I'm not sure exactly how we'll go about that but I can assure you we will never sacrifice quality on the base because we need the legendary to be amazing nor will we let a legendary feel subpar because the base's quality is so high. Reworking cho will be a much larger task because of gentleman but I can promise it'll be amazing when it's done.

This and my other recent comment about my opinion on price cutting is about as much as I can discuss before it's just me talking out of my butt completely. Hopefully it's helpful.

Remlap12232 votes

IMO, Chogath is going to be a huge can of worms to open up by the time he gets slated for a VU, due to the fact that he has one very well implemented Legendary skin (Battlecast Prime) and one that was good at the time but has not aged well (Gentleman). I don't think Battlecast needs much of an update, but Gentleman I believe will have to be started from scratch. But it has answered my question on the procedure for redoing Legendaries to be up to quality. Thanks.

RiotRiot Whist4 votes

Battlecast will be very tricky to deal with, yes. There's just not as much room to improve it since it's starting from a much higher quality.

I feel no matter what happens, the players would not be happy if we didn't touch it though.

Spirit Guard Udyr I think is what will be the hardest to deal with. It's so much better than the base right now, but if Udyr gets a VU what do we do to make sure it's set apart? Guess we're lucky we have some really creative people to answer that when the time comes.

Jingerbeardman1 votes

simple whist, you wouldnt need to even touch Spirit Guard Udyr. it is up to current standards as is and stands alone compared to any of Udyrs other models. Even if udyr got a makeover it would still stand above the others just for the fact that, in all honesty, SPU is more like 4 skins in one.

the real challenge will be pulsefire ezreal.

exec31 votes

This is why so many people don't like SGU. Sure it looks amazing next to Udyr's current broken old model but it's not going to be anything special when Udyr gets his eventual VU because there's little to set it apart. Unlike PFE which was a major thematic change, SGU is literally just Udyr. I hope future Ultimates are more in line with PFE than SGU, I like the Fallen Angel Morgana concept of Morgana starting off like Kayle but as the game goes on she falls to darkness.

Speaking of PFE, what's your thoughts on that when Ezreal gets a VU? I can see it getting a nice bump as in some ways it is starting to look a little aged tbh.

Enigma Requiem1 votes

What about Twisted Fate?

Twisted Fate's Magnificent skin was a Legendary-tier skin (by price), and got no particles or anything special. Then it came time to give it an update... and it still didn't have any particles.

Not trying to complain, just wanted to point that out. Does this change your stance on previos comments at all?

RiotRiot Whist5 votes

It does not change my personal stance.

Magnificent TF was one of the early legendary skins when the bar was lower. He was downgraded from legendary price as relaunch decided in the end it didn't feel right tacking on a bunch of particles and animations to try to make it feel legendary again as that might ruin what players enjoyed about the skin. All players who bought it were refunded the difference of their purchase.

I do feel it's worth trying to level up a skin to retain legendary status by today's standards. I feel G-Cho is different as the thing people like is the gentlemanly part. If we can enhance that aspect, it will be pretty hard for people to feel he's "changed" for the worse. This is in a perfect world with no time or resource constraints though.

EDIT for anybody who might come back here in the future: After speaking with the Relaunch team, they are unsure as to how we will go about Gentleman Cho, but it's completely possible he might end up more like Magnificent TF where he gets the visual update, but nothing "new" added.

Again as a super reminder: These posts are not confirmation of anything and are representing my opinion only.

Swaingry Birds1 votes

Can you give me URF back :( I don't want to have to keep all the poro as my minions forever,plus you cant catch me when i have summoner 6 and summoner 4 equiped espicially when i am MasterYi.

Gixia1 votes

All this talk of 'upgrading' Gentleman Cho actually worries me. :( Gentleman Cho is my absolute favouritest skin in the whole game, and I'm probably the only one in the world but I like it much more than Battlecast Cho. While I'm sure it'll get some tweaks when Cho himself gets an inevitable VU, I hope it doesn't change TOO too much that it becomes unrecognizeable. Like, just upgrade the actual model quality, make his top hat spiffier and all that, but otherwise I think he's just fine! He perfectly straddles the line between being silly without being TOO silly. Considering Riot's penchant for giving all skins nowadays new spell effects (something I'm not convinced every skin needs), I'd be worried about him losing some of his charm by pushing it too over the top.

And I definitely hope his awesome VO gets left alone!

Remlap12231 votes

You're not alone friend, I'd much rather have Gentleman Cho in my skin vault than Battlecast Prime because of my personal tastes, but I'd also like the skin to be worth the RP, since I'm dropping around $15 for a skin.

RiotRiot Whist3 votes

The idea would be to not change Cho, but to just make him better and more inline with our art direction now. Looking at all past events, I doubt he'll pass by with out getting his VO redone, Gentleman included. The voice is really a huge part of Gentleman and I think the number one thing to boost that skin would be to give him more lines for more situations.

Also I should make sure to mention that I am speaking as myself. I have not brought all these issues to the team to get our collective opinion here. I am speaking with our values in mind, but what I am saying here is not absolute confirmation of anything.

Gixia1 votes

D: Gentleman's VO is already so GOOD though!

Though that raises a thought. Previously, every champion to receive a VU usually got a new VO to go with it... BUT, simultaneously, every champion to get a new VO only had one VO to begin with. If Cho'Gath were to get an update, he'd be the first champ to already have multiple VOs, three in fact, his base plus each legendary skin having one. While I fully expect his base VO would get changed, I'd be genuinely surprised if his Battlecast voice was tweaked, seeing as that skin is already so recent and relatively up to date. So unless I'm mistaken and the Battlecast VO would be redone as well, considering the Gentleman VO is the only thing about the skin that's actually befitting a legendary as is, why would it need to be changed?

9Point1 votes

I was glad when MTF cost was refunded but I feel the point was missed. G-Cho was actually released BEFORE MTF. That was the issue. MTF was a poor skin in general and there was many MANY threads about making him more "legendary". Even red-posts about it. In the end the refund was secondary to a "Ugh, yeah sorry but we are not going to do anything and you've called our bluff. Here is money back".

Phoenix Kotori 3 votes

That was one of the 5 skins that was **downgraded **from Legendary-tier and everyone who payed the original price had it refunded by the difference (975 RP) and was retired, so like Annie in Wonderland it was no **longer **a legendary skin when the VU occurred.

Labcown2 votes

What I think OP was trying to get at is that since the quality is being held to such a higher standard than it was before, are there any plans to go back and update the extremely outdated skins to try and match the substance level of the newer content that's being pushed out?

Or to readjust prices to have the older "Legendary" skins meet price points of similar skins, now that they might almost classified as normal 975 skins since the content level is about the same or even in favor of the newer 975 skins?

Remlap12231 votes

Basically this.

RiotRiot Whist3 votes

It's a pretty complicated procedure to deal with price changes. Obviously the price is based off the quality (for the time it was released) but in my opinion the price is part of what makes it legendary (though I agree gentleman cho is not up to quality at this point), there are many ways we could go about it but I'm not marketing so I can't speak with much confidence here. I don't want to suggest anything and force marketing to have to do damage control for me :P

But my personal opinion is we should up the quality rather than cut the price. I would love to do cho's VU soon as he's such an iconic character and to tackle this issue, but, I am not apart of that department so don't take this as confirmation of a rework soon.

EDIT: Please keep in mind that this is my opinion as an artist at Riot, Our marketing team might decide to tackle this issue and come to the conclusion that for now we should slash the price. The artist in me feels that slashing prices is just a band-aid for a bigger problem that is up to me (and the rest of the team) to fix. The issue of course is the resources it will take to fix the problem of old legendaries. There's a LOT of old content we all let out heavy sighs about when it's brought up because we know and we really wish we had the resources to deal with it asap.

Flannel Mannel1 votes

I do agree that the newer content is by far better done than the older content. As for Cho'Gath though, I'd love to see him get a VU, definitely including his skins since only Battlecast Cho'Gath is truly awe-inspiring right now. (Disclaimer, I happen to primarily use Gentleman Cho'Gath and love it)

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