Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends Players

Ice Weasel X··2,611 votes·462,400 views

This is an online game. In most cases, your child is playing with real people. Please take a moment to understand how this game's person-to-person interaction functions. In the past, I have seen numerous stories of children who routinely disconnect mid-game because it's bedtime, or their parents decide that they've played enough for the day. Some of these stories have come from parents themselves, proudly stating that they are firm about making their children stop playing at a specific time.

**While it is admirable that you are teaching children some responsibility to schedules, please stop neglecting to teach them responsibility to other people. ** Unless your child is playing a Custom Game, his actions will permanently affect the statistics of up to 9 other people. Don't enforce behavior that involves disregarding other people. Do you want your child being callous to people in face-to-face situations too?

The average game of League of Legends lasts over 30 minutes. Many last close to an hour. When a game has begun, players have implicitly committed their time to each other until the game ends.

If you have given your child a strict cutoff time for play, do not allow him to begin a game if he has less than an hour left.

  • Bedtime in 30 minutes? Don't allow him to start a new game.
  • Dinner in 45 minutes? Don't allow him to start a new game.

If a game is in progress, do not interrupt it unless it is an emergency. You are affecting up to 10 people, not just your child.

  • Feel like checking your e-mail on the same computer? Please wait until the game is over so you don't completely ruin things for the real people on your child's team.
  • Is a game that started 90 minutes before bedtime somehow still in progress at 87 minutes? Please allow him to finish the match so you don't completely ruin things for the real people on your child's team. Games almost never last that long, and if people lose due to a teammate quitting after spending that much time on a match, they are likely to be more upset than usual.

Now you're probably thinking, "But what if my child takes advantage of me and starts a game 5 minutes before bedtime because now I'll feel guilty about making him quit a game in progress?" I have an answer for that. Are you ready for it? It's a two parter.

  1. Let him finish the game. This sounds like you're letting your child walk all over you, but please just let the game finish normally and follow through with step 2.
  2. Ground him. You're the parent. Don't let him play League for a while. If your kid tries to exploit you, you don't have to stand for it. Step 1 is just about showing courtesy to other people and being responsible to the team. However, your child should definitely learn that there are consequences for all actions.

If you are a parent and can't figure out why this is a problem, take some time to read how people react to children prematurely abandoning games.

If you know any parents who make their kids leave mid-game on a whim, please direct them to this thread.

===

Update (Feb 16):

First off, holy shit. That's a lot of activity. I didn't expect that Reddit link, but I'm not complaining.

When I posted this, I was hoping to get a little debate flowing. I decided to avoid any input for a week since I knew it was potentially a self-sustaining topic and I wanted people discussing their views, not discussing me. That said, some people are basing their arguments on faulty assumptions of the person who wrote this and the motivation behind it, so here's some info.

  • I'm over 30. This isn't the rant of a kid who got tossed off the computer.
  • I'm unranked. This isn't about blaming my tier on leavers. If I cared about my rank, I'd have a rank.
  • As some people figured out, the issue isn't really LoL. Tying it to LoL gives it a common reference point to engage everyone here.
  • The suggestions given are not presented with the expectation that parents let everything take a backseat to a game in progress.

Parents are responsible for their children's development. Some of the lessons taught are directly explained (e.g., look both ways before crossing a street), while others are learned by example (e.g., habits). In the LoL scenario, a parent constantly cutting a game in progress sets an example which suggests that other people's time doesn't matter (yes, this is an extreme view, and I will address that*). The alternate action of waiting sets a different example which suggests that commitment is binding. Now, unless you're of the opinion that other people's time is worthless (a valid opinion, although many claim to oppose it), there's a clear winner between the two suggestions.

* In most cases, this is obviously not the lesson learned, but picking an extreme and declaring the other option "wrong" incites responses. Many, many responses, as it turns out.

Ideally, parents wouldn't boot their kids off mid-game, time wouldn't be wasted, Lux could explain double rainbows to Paul Velasquez, and everyone would be happy. But let's be honest, reality is not ideal. There will always be reasonable causes to interrupt a game.

So what the heck was the point?

Context. Circumstances. These are things parents should consider constantly. Adopting a Zero Tolerance approach is lazy and counterproductive. Awareness and guidance (this includes punishments) through situational consideration take more effort, but your child will be better off for it.

Did any parents read this? Obviously, yes. Some responded. Some agreed, some disagreed, some got downright defensive. The awesome part? The explanations. Regardless of opinion, taking the time to state your position and why means you've given some thought to the issue. Parental awareness? Yes, please.

A few of my favorites:

A mom

{quoted}

Personally as a Mom and Wife I understand the concept. If perhaps more parents played the games with there kids and see It would be easier. But as for me Yeah I let my kids or husband :D finish out there match prior to dinner or bed time. And its not just with league either my Oldest son does more TF2 than LoL And the rule for my kids for bed time around here.. well They stop playing games around 30mins to an hour before bedtime then there is no issue of oh hang on mom I just need to finish this up..

a dad

{quoted}

I have kids, they are 12 and 10, they are named Rielly and Zoe.

Rielly, my son, is 12 and loves to play league of legends. He has been told that I get off of work at 7PM every day so if its after 6PM he is not allowed to start a new game in case I need the computer. He doesn't get to play video games during the week at all unless all of his homework is done and there are no video games after 7PM during the week because that is family time. On the weekend he is allowed to play up to 3-4 games a day. Before he plays he is required to check with his mother or I to make sure there is time.

Zoe, my daughter, is 10 and plays mostly on the WiiU because she is not really into League but she plays the crap out of Monster Hunter 3U. Hunts in that game can take up to 45min. She has the exact same guide lines as my son with the exception that if she can get through more hunts on the weekend its allowed because some of them are much shorter.

Why do I do all of this? Mostly because they are goram kids and as their parent I knew that when I decided to have fun sexy times with their mom I was potentially taking on a huge responsibility. Turns out I have double the responsibility as I have two kids.

And before there are snide comments about how I am probably some work from home or skum bag non working dad I will let you know... I work 40-50 hours a week as a manager at a cable company, I am going back to school at night (1/2 time) so I am not stuck their for the rest of my life, I play ~10 matches of league a week (not a lot and I know I am forever Wood 5), I am also a community manager for a website, and I personally stream 2 nights a week myself.

The reality is that being a parent is hard work, probably the hardest work one will ever have to do. And shoving kids off into another room to play video games until the computer is needed or decide its time to scream at them and tell them to go to bed because tomorrow is another crap day at a crap job and the only control that exists is over the poor kids who had no choice of who they were born to is no way to parent.

So as a parent I am here to say it is possible to follow the OP guidelines. It is not easy and if somebody is a single parent it gets exponentially harder. But, being a parent is the hardest, and most rewarding thing, you will probably ever do... so deal with it.

and someone who disagrees with the original post

{quoted}

But it's not my responsibility for punishing them for breaking other peoples' rules. They're following the rules I set for them, so for me to punish them would be wrong. The reality is that it is a parent's job to prepare their child for the world. In the world, the body whose rules you nbreak will punish you. Children should learn the REAL consequences of breaking rules, not 'fake' consequences.

That's real parenting. I would explain to the kid that if he leaves games he may lose his account and will almost certainly be punished as a result of Riot's rules... and then let him make a choice about how he wishes to do it. And I will only punish him if he breaks MY rules.

As for the PA comic, I laughed. I was disappointed that they got it wrong, but oh well. Not everyone gets a PA comic!

860 Comments

Chaotic Reks742 votes

breaks mouse upvoting

Rew71174 votes

I agree with all of this. Now its time to bring it to court for parents who believe going onto their Facebook or watching a video is just as, or more important, that playing a video game.

toastnbacon37 votes

How dare they think that their 1's and 0's are more important than ours!

ModKnightsKemplar297 votes

I doubt many parents are reading the League forums, but preach it anyway.

EDIT: Now that this has more views than the music team Q&A... maybe some parents saw it. gj community.

blueberrypancake34 votes

I agree this is an amazing discussion, its use is just very low. Maybe if riot made a guide for parents of players then the writer of this article would be hired immediately.

RiotIts Tamat Damat208 votes

As someone who appreciates parenting tips, I appreciate the heck out of this post! :)

ZenShade22 votes

Yeah, the only issue is that while Leaverbuster is a great and necessary system it is negatively effecting people who get afk'd due to an inability to connect because of client crashes.

Deep Terror Nami35 votes

If you know of a system that can differentiate between a legitimate disconnect and someone who just turned their internet off, you let them know. Ok?

Also, if you know your internet is unreliable, do not play with other people. You have control over whether you play or not if you know there will be problems. That is why you aren't restricted after just one dc; you are given multiple chances.

Dead Wife191 votes

Personally as a Mom and Wife I understand the concept. If perhaps more parents played the games with there kids and see It would be easier. But as for me Yeah I let my kids or husband :D finish out there match prior to dinner or bed time. And its not just with league either my Oldest son does more TF2 than LoL And the rule for my kids for bed time around here.. well They stop playing games around 30mins to an hour before bedtime then there is no issue of oh hang on mom I just need to finish this up..

Envy Sin37 votes

Upvote ^ Thank you for not being a stereotypical parent.

Dead Wife56 votes

Well.. Thanks :D Im a gamer.. My kids are gonna be gamers.. I have to try to teach them the balance for the future of gamers :D

Doominator1049 votes

My mom would be proud. My dad would be confused :\

Budupops170 votes

most importantly dont let your 5 year old play ranked

Gerumar Althor48 votes

Most importantly, don't let a 5 year old play such a game ever. There is a time and age for everything!

Phoquelesanimaux106 votes

Parents should get an email when their child is banned for insults (chatlog(s)).

DarthPancake22 votes

This,even when I was younger and before the age of 13 I always had my dad use his email to authenticate I had permission if the games asked,which they used too,There should be that option here. :s

Reynard the ƒox102 votes

Riot should do a PSA about this. Send an E-mail to all players about the negative effects of leaving a game. I imagine most young'uns have their account registered through their mom or dad's E-mail, so alot of parents could potentially see it.

Yraaj67 votes

Dear parents of League of Legends players this game has no PAUSE BUTTON!!!!

Nucleophilic atk66 votes

This also goes for the people playing. If you know you have to do something in 30 mins, don't be stupid enough to start a game. I had far too many "hurry up guys I have to go in 10 mins" players that make us lose the game because they try to force the game. It's bullshit.

Space Bum12 votes

In this situation, I play bots. No one cares about bot game leavers.

Duke Anax22 votes

Actually Riot does and they will restrict/ban you just the same. (Maybe with a higher threshold than in normal games though, I don't know)

AerialBlade38 votes

As a "child" of a parent who doesn't care about the other people playing, the best way to fix AFK'ers "because of dinner" is to stop them right in the middle of a game. It hurts like shit to stop playing knowing other people will be upset about it. Eventually, you learn to not take the risk and only play when its safe. At least, in my opinion (I have my own laptop)

Moonshade17 votes

{quoted}

As a "child" of a parent who doesn't care about the other people playing, the best way to fix AFK'ers "because of dinner" is to stop them right in the middle of a game. It hurts like shit to stop playing knowing other people will be upset about it. Eventually, you learn to not take the risk and only play when its safe. At least, in my opinion (I have my own laptop)

Not everyone has your sense of morals, some people will be more pissed about their own LP vs disappointing 9 other people. Others just won't give a damn which is sad about today's youth.

Gunpoint37 votes

Because parents totally browse video game forums for advice.

slippykitten36 votes

This hurts my brain and almost makes me want to stop playing. This is a video game..... like a game..... and games are primarily for? Children.

I understand many people treat this like a sport, and for some it is, but most of the people are playing a GAME.

Do you know what i want to teach my kids? That games are just games, that life is more important than your mmr, or any other virtual game statistic, and that if you are negatively affected in a meaningful way by a video game you probably wont make it in life.

Now I'm with you that they should learn to value the time of people they are playing with, fulfill commitments (no matter how minute), and not be a quitter.

Its the idea that there are adults trying to reach out to parents of the children they play video games with to reprimand them for their CHILDREN ruining their GAME that's disturbing me

So what I'm saying is, yeah, nobody should waste anyone else's time, but if you have a problem with children acting like children in a video game community, maybe you're the one who needs to grow up.

Firestorme151 votes

{quoted}

This hurts my brain and almost makes me want to stop playing.

please do

MasterofSFL12 votes

Are you Straight 1970s or something? If nothing else, the ESRB is A THING. Games are rated based on what age group should be playing them due to in game content.

This stupid Mentality that "it's just a Game" is why we, as a community, are not taken seriously by others. Ya, Bejeweled is "Just a Game," Candy Crush is "Just a Game," Super Mario is "Just a Game," because they are meant to be something you use whatever time you wish to use on them and be done immediately should you choose.

Games like League though? They are no just Games, they are PEOPLES TIME. Hard working, Tax Paying, School Going and Social/Family people's TIME. All of us come here with the intent to engage in a competitive atmosphere, as a team of players. We commit Minutes, Hours, of our time to other people WE DON'T KNOW, to accomplish this. Once that games starts, we have to finish it or suffer consequences to our accounts that we have put time, energy and sometimes money in. Ya, maybe for you your time means nothing, but to me and many other players, our time is valuable to us and we choose to utilize it how we see fit, so when someone decides they are going to "Go eat dinner" because Mom refuses to understand it's "Not just a Game" you are wasting our time, OUR FREE TIME I might add.

If you can't understand this concept, then don't allow your child to play Games (Because Games are becoming more and more time intensive and more player interactive as they evolve), don't play Multiplayer games yourself, unless you know you can just leave and not effect an entire group of people and waste what could be their only game of the day to blow off steam.

This post was meant to educate you Tactless parents who think the world only revolves around your household and allow your children to run rampant in online communities completely screwing our Schedules and our Fun. You don't take your whiny ass child to the movies, Walk in Mid Movie and then Leave him there for 30+ people to deal with do you? No. You don't Take your Child to a Sports Game and Have him leave Half way through, leaving his Team a man down do you? No. So why is this any different? Both those situations are people's pass times, free time and they are spending it how they wish, Why should the Gaming community, Specifically MMOs and MOBAs suffer this kind of insensitivity because you can't yourself Grow and Understand plenty of other people play this games because they enjoy it and dealing with this Extremely Unenjoyable.

Final Word, you and your Child are no more important than me and my Buddies, stop acting like our Choice of Pass time is worthless.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted}

Are you Straight 1970s or something? If nothing else, the ESRB is A THING. Games are rated based on what age group should be playing them due to in game content.

This stupid Mentality that "it's just a Game" is why we, as a community, are not taken seriously by others. Ya, Bejeweled is "Just a Game," Candy Crush is "Just a Game," Super Mario is "Just a Game," because they are meant to be something you use whatever time you wish to use on them and be done immediately should you choose.

Games like League though? They are no just Games, they are PEOPLES TIME. Hard working, Tax Paying, School Going and Social/Family people's TIME. All of us come here with the intent to engage in a competitive atmosphere, as a team of players. We commit Minutes, Hours, of our time to other people WE DON'T KNOW, to accomplish this. Once that games starts, we have to finish it or suffer consequences to our accounts that we have put time, energy and sometimes money in. Ya, maybe for you your time means nothing, but to me and many other players, our time is valuable to us and we choose to utilize it how we see fit, so when someone decides they are going to "Go eat dinner" because Mom refuses to understand it's "Not just a Game" you are wasting our time, OUR FREE TIME I might add.

If you can't understand this concept, then don't allow your child to play Games (Because Games are becoming more and more time intensive and more player interactive as they evolve), don't play Multiplayer games yourself, unless you know you can just leave and not effect an entire group of people and waste what could be their only game of the day to blow off steam.

This post was meant to educate you Tactless parents who think the world only revolves around your household and allow your children to run rampant in online communities completely screwing our Schedules and our Fun. You don't take your whiny ass child to the movies, Walk in Mid Movie and then Leave him there for 30+ people to deal with do you? No. You don't Take your Child to a Sports Game and Have him leave Half way through, leaving his Team a man down do you? No. So why is this any different? Both those situations are people's pass times, free time and they are spending it how they wish, Why should the Gaming community, Specifically MMOs and MOBAs suffer this kind of insensitivity because you can't yourself Grow and Understand plenty of other people play this games because they enjoy it and dealing with this Extremely Unenjoyable.

Final Word, you and your Child are no more important than me and my Buddies, stop acting like our Choice of Pass time is worthless.

If you don't enjoy the game, find something else to play. You have to ask your self, do you really enjoy this game, or do you just enjoy winning? If the latter, then League is probably not the game for you because 50% of your time, approximately, will be wasted. If the former, then why does someone leaving negatively effect you at all? You're still playing, you can still have fun.

MasterofSFL8 votes

(If you don't enjoy the game, find something else to play. You have to ask your self, do you really enjoy this game, or do you just enjoy winning? If the latter, then League is probably not the game for you because 50% of your time, approximately, will be wasted. If the former, then why does someone leaving negatively effect you at all? You're still playing, you can still have fun.)

This is a pretty ignorant statement to say the least. Do you play sports? Have you played sports? I Have, I played since I was 4 and all the way till 21. I love the competitiveness, the adrenaline, the constant forethought of what you are going to do. Winning is the Goal, but I enjoyed the sport more than just that. But it's much harder, if not actually depressing, when I had to face a team with a bunch of players down or vice versa, had to do so myself. It took away from the win and made the loss feel less deserved. Ya, we won, but did we win because we were better or did we just win because 5 guys didn't show up? We lost, they were good, but was it because they were that much better or that we were exhausted after 35 minutes of nonstop play?

That same ISSUES applies here. It's a game balance around a team of 5. Every skill, every stat, every Item and Ratio, is balanced with the idea in mind that you are but one Cog in a machine. When you DC/Quit/Can't Connect, you just took what could have been a really good game, and threw the entire equation off. When a parent forces their child off, they are doing that very same thing to those 9 players. It's not fun, it's not as enjoyable, it's not as fulfilling.

If you find the notion that losing is a waste of time, in a sport, or a game, then you might as well not play either one. Losing is part of the game, that's a fact, we all know that. Losing itself isn't a waste of time, especially if the game was extremely good and very close. No, what is a waste of time is queuing up for that experience only to be subjected to half the match you were hoping for, being at disadvantage, knowing that you made a pick or decision based on the Now absent player's pick.

It's not enjoyable winning either, when you see an ADC leave and know you can stomp the support, if their Jungler isn't there and you can over extend, if their Mid doesn't exist and you can free roam. It completely takes away from the game on all levels because it completely changes the dynamics of the game to one that is almost so one-sided the possibility of losing is almost non-existent. That is not fun and that is still a waste of my time.

If you sincerely think that either one of your given reasons is a legitimate counter to any argument for someone leaving, then I truly hope I never meet you in a League match and instead hope you get the Leavers and DCers in yours instead of mine. If they don't bother you, well...Whatever it's your time you're using, I on the other hand expect all my Mates and all my Opponents to dedicate their time to the game while it is in play just like any Physical sport would, because the game is meant to be a team game.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted}

(If you don't enjoy the game, find something else to play. You have to ask your self, do you really enjoy this game, or do you just enjoy winning? If the latter, then League is probably not the game for you because 50% of your time, approximately, will be wasted. If the former, then why does someone leaving negatively effect you at all? You're still playing, you can still have fun.)

This is a pretty ignorant statement to say the least. Do you play sports? Have you played sports? I Have, I played since I was 4 and all the way till 21. I love the competitiveness, the adrenaline, the constant forethought of what you are going to do. Winning is the Goal, but I enjoyed the sport more than just that. But it's much harder, if not actually depressing, when I had to face a team with a bunch of players down or vice versa, had to do so myself. It took away from the win and made the loss feel less deserved. Ya, we won, but did we win because we were better or did we just win because 5 guys didn't show up? We lost, they were good, but was it because they were that much better or that we were exhausted after 35 minutes of nonstop play?

That same ISSUES applies here. It's a game balance around a team of 5. Every skill, every stat, every Item and Ratio, is balanced with the idea in mind that you are but one Cog in a machine. When you DC/Quit/Can't Connect, you just took what could have been a really good game, and threw the entire equation off. When a parent forces their child off, they are doing that very same thing to those 9 players. It's not fun, it's not as enjoyable, it's not as fulfilling.

If you find the notion that losing is a waste of time, in a sport, or a game, then you might as well not play either one. Losing is part of the game, that's a fact, we all know that. Losing itself isn't a waste of time, especially if the game was extremely good and very close. No, what is a waste of time is queuing up for that experience only to be subjected to half the match you were hoping for, being at disadvantage, knowing that you made a pick or decision based on the Now absent player's pick.

It's not enjoyable winning either, when you see an ADC leave and know you can stomp the support, if their Jungler isn't there and you can over extend, if their Mid doesn't exist and you can free roam. It completely takes away from the game on all levels because it completely changes the dynamics of the game to one that is almost so one-sided the possibility of losing is almost non-existent. That is not fun and that is still a waste of my time.

If you sincerely think that either one of your given reasons is a legitimate counter to any argument for someone leaving, then I truly hope I never meet you in a League match and instead hope you get the Leavers and DCers in yours instead of mine. If they don't bother you, well...Whatever it's your time you're using, I on the other hand expect all my Mates and all my Opponents to dedicate their time to the game while it is in play just like any Physical sport would, because the game is meant to be a team game.

Some of the most fun games I've had have been 4v5s. It's an awesome challenge to try to see how long you can hold out, or see if you can even win. It tests a completely different set of skills and it can be amazing. You're just winning-obsessed and playing for all the wrong reasons, so you can't have fun unless you can win. It's a really sad state of being, and there's not much to say to you except 'I'm sorry to hear that' because you're going to be in for a LOT of disappointing experiences both in this game and in life in general.

If your goal is just to win, you're doing it wrong. It's the same as people who claim their goal is 'to be famous'... anyone who is actually famous will tell you that's a stupid goal. Same thing goes for wealth, victory, or any other 'goal' that isn't based around yourself. They're all stupid goals. And because you have stupid goals, you get upset over stupid things you have no control over. Congratulations. You've brought this on yourself, and I don't pity you at all.

Losing, even in a stomp, is not a waste of time. Even in a 4v5, it is not a waste of time. Because you can still improve your personal play And if you improve your personal play, you'll have accomplished just as much in that 'horrible waste of time' as you would in a normal 5v5. But I don't expect you to recognize that.

Someday, if you recognize how utterly ridiculous you're being, we can talk again and maybe you'll have matured enough to not sound like an entitled 16 year old who looked up some words and phrases to make themselves sound intelligent. I hope that day comes. But until then, I don't think there's any point in trying to convince you to look at reason... lemme know if I'm wrong though and we can have a rational discussion.

MasterofSFL9 votes

You're trying to Rationalize an act that is both highly frowned upon in the community and Heavily discouraged by the Devs who run this game.

You can try to if you want, that's fine, but this isn't about player betterment, win's or losses, fun, ect. It's the principle of the matter. 4 people are relying on you to be there for them as their teammate, 5 people are relying on you to be there for them as their opponent. Whatever excuse you can come up with, it is both against community will as well as against the policies of the game itself.

Now, if you wish to be this way and take the high horse,go ahead. You're the one here trying to:

  1. Rationalize Leaving as some kind of Grand Player Experience we should all Enjoy (Especially when it's for poor reasons)

  2. Refusing to acknowledge that other people in game exist somewhere else in this world, they have a life, they have feelings, that they matter regardless of your personal feelings on the this matter.

  3. That Parents are fully within their rights and powers, as players (Especially League Players) and as parents, to both teach online conduct and place barriers on their children when playing.

and

  1. Denying there is no excuse for this phenomenon, since Parents can just keep their child from playing, Period.

Meanwhile, all I'm advocating for is what anyone in this world, in any other situation, in any public arena would when they see this sort of blatant disregard for other's time, feelings and allow their child to impose onto others: Tell them to knock it off.

So ridiculous? Ya, I guess, if you can agree you're just plain being a self-righteous crusader telling me (and anyone who shares my opinion) our games don't matter and we should play more 4v5s for the Spiritual Experiences they are.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

You're trying to Rationalize an act that is both highly frowned upon in the community and Heavily discouraged by the Devs who run this game.

You can try to if you want, that's fine, but this isn't about player betterment, win's or losses, fun, ect. It's the principle of the matter. 4 people are relying on you to be there for them as their teammate, 5 people are relying on you to be there for them as their opponent. Whatever excuse you can come up with, it is both against community will as well as against the policies of the game itself.

Now, if you wish to be this way and take the high horse,go ahead. You're the one here trying to:

  1. Rationalize Leaving as some kind of Grand Player Experience we should all Enjoy (Especially when it's for poor reasons)

  2. Refusing to acknowledge that other people in game exist somewhere else in this world, they have a life, they have feelings, that they matter regardless of your personal feelings on the this matter.

  3. That Parents are fully within their rights and powers, as players (Especially League Players) and as parents, to both teach online conduct and place barriers on their children when playing.

and

  1. Denying there is no excuse for this phenomenon, since Parents can just keep their child from playing, Period.

Meanwhile, all I'm advocating for is what anyone in this world, in any other situation, in any public arena would when they see this sort of blatant disregard for other's time, feelings and allow their child to impose onto others: Tell them to knock it off.

So ridiculous? Ya, I guess, if you can agree you're just plain being a self-righteous crusader telling me (and anyone who shares my opinion) our games don't matter and we should play more 4v5s for the Spiritual Experiences they are.

I'm not trying to 'rationalize leaving' as a 'grand player experience', I'm saying that if your mind is in the right place, it won't bother you and it'll just be another facet of the game. If you choose to be bothered by it, I'm not going to care. I'm not refusing to acknowledge that other people exist, in fact I'm frequently trying to help others. I've talked to people who others saw as trolls, helped them through their personal problems before, and helped them realize what they were doing and overcome that - some of them have become longtime friends of mine that I still talk to occasionally years later... I've helped people who were suicidal overcome that... accusing me of not caring about others is absolutely absurd. My wife frequently berates me(jokingly of course) for caring TOO MUCH about others. I just recognize that there are things that are worth caring about, and things that aren't... and LP/ranking is on that latter list... as is you making a CHOICE to be bothered by something. I will gladly help you try to find a better mental state if you're willing to listen. I'll spend HOURS of my time talking to you if you genuinely want to overcome any sort of mental problem... but if you don't recognize you have a problem and make the choice to be bothered by that... then I'll respect that choice and won't let it bother me. If you WANT to be bothered by this, and if you WANT to be upset by leavers... then that's entirely your own choice and there's nothing for me to do but respect that choice.

But don't expect me to care that you're getting upset by your own decision. Sorry. If you choose to ram your head into a wall and get a headache, I'll take you to the hospital, but I won't be upset that you made that choice.

Honestly, If you have horrible priorities and a bad mindset, then I don't consider myself responsible for your mental status. If you're going to get upset over something that you have no control over and that is really not detrimental to your life in any way, shape or form... it's your OWN responsibility. Not mine.

Simple, blunt, elegant, and true.

MasterofSFL6 votes

You keep attacking me personally and using some malformed moral argument about priorities, specifically mine (as if you know them) and try to use this construct to poke holes in my argument while you continue to avoid the question I and many others have asked: why are you allowing your kid to play?

The summoners code does exist:http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/get-started/summoners-code/

If you are a parent who plays league and you let your child play and leave his or her game because they can't manage their time properly, why do you let them play? You fail to answer this, instead putting the burden on the community, instead of the parents.

I thought you might provide a half decent debate here but stick to your Facebook posts, stay off the forums. Your little rant here just shows you just can't deal with this setting.

Have a lovely day.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted}

You keep attacking me personally and using some malformed moral argument about priorities, specifically mine (as if you know them) and try to use this construct to poke holes in my argument while you continue to avoid the question I and many others have asked: why are you allowing your kid to play?

The summoners code does exist:http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/get-started/summoners-code/

If you are a parent who plays league and you let your child play and leave his or her game because they can't manage their time properly, why do you let them play? You fail to answer this, instead putting the burden on the community, instead of the parents.

I thought you might provide a half decent debate here but stick to your Facebook posts, stay off the forums. Your little rant here just shows you just can't deal with this setting.

Have a lovely day.

I don't need to poke holes in your argument. Your argument is inherently flawed from the get go. I just have to quote it and it's already falling apart.

My kid would have a preset amount of time to play - say, from 7 until 9(I don't have kids yet, so we'd have to see what that timeframe would be but... that's not the point). It's up to them to decide how they use that time. If they wish to risk getting banned by spending every last minute playing and be forced to leave a game when they're only 25% done a game at 9, then that is THEIR DECISION to make and THEY will deal with the consequences when they come. Consequences are how children learn things.

Regardless of anyone's thoughts on the morality of leaving, or your horrible mindset of letting yourself get upset by it... it's up to the child to face the consequences of their actions. If those consequences are them losing their account, that's their choice. If the consequence is them getting such a long leaver time that they have to find another game, well maybe they'll learn from that. Regardless of what any of us think of the situation. And if they DO lose their account, any money or RP they've spent on it will NOT be replaced because again... consequences are how people grow up and learn.

Parents these days spend way too much time protecting children from consequences... and not enough letting them learn from them. It's one of the worst trends in parenting, because it leads to poor whiny saps like you who feel personally violated by something as small as someone leaving their game.

MrBearable6 votes

"THEIR DECISION to make and THEY will deal with the consequences"

Not quite. You seem to be struggling with this part (even though it is the very first sentence of this entire discussion), so I'll repeat it a few times for you.

"This is an online game. In most cases, your child is playing with real people." "This is an online game. In most cases, your child is playing with real people." "This is an online game. In most cases, your child is playing with real people."

There's other people that will be dealing with the consequences. If you expect your child to just magically act responsible without any teaching from you, then well.. I just hope you have a REAL amazing significant other to take the reigns. My second point "I don't have kids yet" right there I'd just like to say... Feel free to step out of the discussion at any point. You can't speak on the side of parents as if you know something without actually being a parent. Parenting isn't something you can observe and somehow pick up from watching others be parents. Being overprotective is not the same as teaching. Teach them responsibility, let them deal with consequences that DON'T EFFECT OTHER PEOPLE. Don't be selfish. It's not just about your child. Again:

"This is an online game. In most cases, your child is playing with real people." "This is an online game. In most cases, your child is playing with real people." "This is an online game. In most cases, your child is playing with real people."

How would you feel if your child joined a Football team and during one of their games I walked in and took away his teams quarterback? Sure, I may have had a reason. Sure, there would probably be some consequential experience for my child. But! The part that you seem to be missing out on is:

"your child is playing with real people."

I would have just ruined the game for that entire team. Would I ever do something like that? No! Jesus Christ no. This game is something people do for enjoyment with the spare time they have. There are various things people enjoy. Many enjoy the teamwork that leads to success (Me!). So when I'm 50 minutes in, and it comes down to "next teamfight wins the game" and my ADC quits because "dinner time".... It's infuriating. That's 50 minutes of my oh so precious spare time wasted. That might be my only game for a few days. Would I have been heartbroken over a loss? No, if the other team was simply better but we played well, I'd be alright with that.However, your child just wasted 3 hours and 20 minutes of other peoples time. You think a child will learn responsibility with you enabling that kind of behavior?

Final thing I'm going to say: Wait until your a parent, your understanding of how things work with kids will change real quick. A parent is responsible for the actions of their child until they come of age.

Eleshakai1 votes

See the difference in opinion we have is that I don't feel that them leaving a game SHOULD impact you in any serious way. You get one loss, no big deal. So if you are CHOOSING to let it bother you, I have no control over that... and thus my kid has no control over that. If you choose to have an unhealthy mindset and let someone leaving bother you, that's your fault not my kid's and certainly not mine. And we will treat that as you making a mistake.... you're taking the consequences for that mistake by letting it 'ruin your time', etc. That's not my kid's fault.

If my kid were a part of an organized team, that'd be a different story. He'd have scheduled practices and matches, and we'd work to accommodate that around everyone's schedules. But for just something unorganized that he just opts into... your feeling of butthurt over losing one game is NOT going to come into play. It's your choice to feel that way, so I'm not going to hold my kid responsible for your bad choices. Stop making the comparison to him joining a football team it is WRONG. Football team practices are scheduled, they're pre-arranged, and they're something the parent has to SIGN OFF ON for the kid to even enter. If my kid were to join an organized LoL team I would insist on the same organization from them. I would approve their practice times, etc. and if it was prearranged then we would work our schedule around him having time to do that. BEcause then it would be an OFFICIAL thing, an organized event. And I'd accommodate.

But a normal or even a solo queue ranked game... that's not the same. That's essentially ten kids going out and decided to play a game of street hockey. Or going and throwing some hoops. IT doesn't matter. It has no long term impact on anyone, it's a game. It's for fun.

But yes, it's all speculation until I actually have kids... I'm sure things will change, but I hope my parents have raised me well enough to parent my kids properly. I think they have.

Trylobyte5 votes

{quoted}

See the difference in opinion we have is that I don't feel that them leaving a game SHOULD impact you in any serious way. You get one loss, no big deal. So if you are CHOOSING to let it bother you, I have no control over that... and thus my kid has no control over that. If you choose to have an unhealthy mindset and let someone leaving bother you, that's your fault not my kid's and certainly not mine. And we will treat that as you making a mistake.... you're taking the consequences for that mistake by letting it 'ruin your time', etc. That's not my kid's fault.

You're right, it's not your kid's fault. It's yours, because you pulled the kid out and didn't really leave him or the people he was playing with a say in the matter. Imbalanced games are no fun for anyone. And while it is 'just a game' and is 'just for fun' and it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, it's still a failure on your part as a parent. Let me explain a bit.

One is, as a parent, you need to have enough control over your child, or teach your child to have that control over themselves, to reliably prevent them from starting long, time-consuming things (Not just League) when they know they'll have to leave soon for school/bed/homework/soccer/whatever. This teaches self-control and good time management skills, which are pretty much always important life skills that a lot of people don't have. You're not always going to be around to remind your kid 'Hey, you have to go to work in half an hour, this is not the best time to whip up a pot of spaghetti.'

Two is the matter of having respect for, and teaching your child to have respect for, random people. This is a huge problem in the gaming community right now - People, especially kids, tend to assume that since these people don't know who they are and they're never going to see those people again, that they don't have feelings or opinions or needs or desires or anything. Strangers on the Internet are as meaningless and faceless to them as NPCs in a video game. But behind that username is a real person with real feelings, real needs, and real desires, who is going to be real pissed at losing a game because you unplugged little Johnny's computer half an hour into a match so he could brush his teeth and go to bed. There's actually going to be four of them, nine if you count the enemy team who might not really enjoy the resulting grind into oblivion either. By doing this repeatedly and not taking steps to prevent it, you're essentially reinforcing that 'People I don't know don't matter' mindset that's so pervasive because that's exactly what you're doing.

I viewed this post as a call for responsible parenting. If your kid's game runs a bit over, let him play it out. If he makes a habit of it, ground him and cut him off early from now on, so he has time to finish his game before bed but not start a new one (and don't let him start one either). Watch your kid, see what they're doing. Don't be a game-wrecker because League isn't 'important' enough for you to be a good parent about.

FuryofThornsRedo1 votes

[deleted]

Hugo Butts5 votes

this eleshakai person seems to be very invested in replying to every single comment on an online forum for someone who believes that other peoples' thoughts and actions in cyberspace can't or shouldn't stir anybody else's feelings or affect their enjoyment of their online activities

Dr Easter30 votes

This is kinda bullshit. It's a game. Yes it's annoying to have people leaving the match for these reasons but these kinds KNOW how long it can go when they are starting a match. It's THEIR fault. Asking a parent to wait to check a email because of a game? Really... only teens are upvoting this (and it's written by one I guess). These kids either learn to organize their time early or they'll have serious problems in the future. One of the reasons that made me stop playing SR was the too random match times. If it wasn't for Dominion I'd have left already. I know exactly how much time a match can take in that mode. Much better to organize your time. If you want to play SR do not start a match if you don't have at least 1 hour to play. This is something you should learn after a very few matches.

Envy Sin37 votes

I'm 23 and i feel the same way. Why does the email have to be checked RIGHT NOW? In most cases people own smartphones and can check it though them.

When you Que up for a match, You are devoting 20min-1hour of gameplay. If the parent can't deal with that then uninstall league of legends.

Now if for example you mom just had a heart attack and you had to leave, That's a tiny bit more understandable.

Grand Eleven29 votes

You have no kids. I guarantee it.

Envy Sin37 votes

So you're saying that you are one of those parents, That kicks the kid off to check email?

You play league of legends. (Or it appears that is the case. Since you have a account.) And you don't understand how annoying it is when some 12 year old started up a game 5 mins before bed. Or a parent kicks said child off to check a outdated method of talking to others? (Myself and most people i know get texts or calls from work, The only thing i use email for (and many others) Is signing up for something.)

Maybe you should teach your child "Time management." And "Common courtesy" Instead of raising them to be little pricks. Then nobody would talk down about you're Kids ruining games.

Grand Eleven24 votes

All my kids have their own laptops and cell phones. So nope: don't kick them off to check my email.

Maybe you should teach your child "Time management." And "Common courtesy" Instead of raising them to be little pricks. Then nobody would talk down about you're Kids ruining games.

Go ahead and remember this comment then come back in oh .. say ... 10 years or so when you have kids, and realise how ridiculous it is.

Envy Sin50 votes

Go ahead and remember this comment then come back in oh .. say ... 10 years or so when you have kids, and realise how ridiculous it is.

So you're telling me you have no responsiblity whatsoever to teach YOUR children.

You don't have to teach them time management. (By the way good luck to them holding a job if that's the case)

And you don't need to teach them how to be polite. (Can't wait for them to come home with a black eye because someone wouldn't put up with there shit. Bet you'll be feeling good about what you taught them then.)

You know what, You're right. I don't have kids. But by the sound of it YOU shouldn't have any, Since it appears you have no idea how to raise them.

Grand Eleven7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Envy Sin,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=bEhf1EPt,comment-id=001500020001000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-08T07:53:30.055+0000)

So you're telling me you have no responsiblity whatsoever to teach YOUR children.

No I'm saying that once you have a family to manage things get prioritized. Guess what gets pushed way down the list? Here's a hint: its not responsibility or respect. I just got off work and need to get a kid to soccer, another to swim team, the little one a few more badges lined up for cub scouts and there's still dinner to think of. I don't have 30 minutes to wait around to and let someone play a video game. It's being turned off, and we'll have that chat about time management in the car on the way to the next way point. I ruined 9 other peoples game? You got that one wrong kiddo. If this was a thread about time responsibility I would have upvoted but your focus is all wrong on the parent. WHat about the people at his sports practice he'd have been late for? WOuld that have been my fault too because I should have reminded him before he queued up that he can't start a game?

Guess what: part of growing up is doing it on your own ... and occasionally failing. Your parent letting you fail doesn't make said parent bad. It makes you spoiled for even thinking that way.

You don't have to teach them time management. (By the way good luck to them holding a job if that's the case)

And you don't need to teach them how to be polite. (Can't wait for them to come home with a black eye because someone wouldn't put up with there shit. Bet you'll be feeling good about what you taught them then.)

You know what, You're right. I don't have kids. But by the sound of it YOU shouldn't have any, Since it appears you have no idea how to raise them.

careful: your ignorance is showing again.

MasterofSFL10 votes

You, how about you get off your High Horse!

There is a simple solution to the Problem you are presenting:*** Don't let your Kid play the FUCKING GAME***

There, I said it. I know, being a parent is So tough, it's such a responsibility YOU DID NOT ASK FOR THE FIRST PLACE, But you know what, suck it up. You parents all seem to think that your kid is a god damn god who gets free reign over everyone BUT YOU. If you can't monitor their time, if you can't teach to manage their time, if you can't make them respect time schedules, then guess what, THEY DON'T GET TO PLAY. Holy crap, what a concept. I wish my mother and father knew how to do that, Wait, no, they did. Don't play the excuse game, you have the full power to Turn off that Net and Remove that game from their computer. You're making excuses, stop making excuse, stop being a victim, start being a Parent.

justDaid29 votes

I have kids, they are 12 and 10, they are named Rielly and Zoe.

Rielly, my son, is 12 and loves to play league of legends. He has been told that I get off of work at 7PM every day so if its after 6PM he is not allowed to start a new game in case I need the computer. He doesn't get to play video games during the week at all unless all of his homework is done and there are no video games after 7PM during the week because that is family time. On the weekend he is allowed to play up to 3-4 games a day. Before he plays he is required to check with his mother or I to make sure there is time.

Zoe, my daughter, is 10 and plays mostly on the WiiU because she is not really into League but she plays the crap out of Monster Hunter 3U. Hunts in that game can take up to 45min. She has the exact same guide lines as my son with the exception that if she can get through more hunts on the weekend its allowed because some of them are much shorter.

Why do I do all of this? Mostly because they are goram kids and as their parent I knew that when I decided to have fun sexy times with their mom I was potentially taking on a huge responsibility. Turns out I have double the responsibility as I have two kids.

And before there are snide comments about how I am probably some work from home or skum bag non working dad I will let you know... I work 40-50 hours a week as a manager at a cable company, I am going back to school at night (1/2 time) so I am not stuck their for the rest of my life, I play ~10 matches of league a week (not a lot and I know I am forever Wood 5), I am also a community manager for a website, and I personally stream 2 nights a week myself.

The reality is that being a parent is hard work, probably the hardest work one will ever have to do. And shoving kids off into another room to play video games until the computer is needed or decide its time to scream at them and tell them to go to bed because tomorrow is another crap day at a crap job and the only control that exists is over the poor kids who had no choice of who they were born to is no way to parent.

So as a parent I am here to say it is possible to follow the OP guidelines. It is not easy and if somebody is a single parent it gets exponentially harder. But, being a parent is the hardest, and most rewarding thing, you will probably ever do... so deal with it.

Spacesuit Spiff25 votes

Totally agree.

I've heard of parents that find absurd joy in interrupting games of League (to punish people for wasting their time on games or some such) but I think most people would understand this.

Tober20 votes

To be honest , if the child has any sense of responsibility for others , HE shouldn't start a game when its bedtime in 30 minutes.. If he's not mature enough to be able to think ahead and have any sense of sympathy for other players , he shouldn't be playing this game. All he is probably gonna bring is another toxic player that only cares about himself.

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