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So hey Riot, a question.

Niyumi··1 votes·757 views

Was reading an article the other day, your profit is >$2B (Two BILLION) a year. Where in the fuck does that money go? You preach about how you put quality above all else, even money, right? So why does none of that profit go into the game?

And white knights, since I know you're goinna say they do, how long do you think it takes the WoW division Blizzard of the FFXIV division of Square Enix or Arena Net (GW2) or any other similar-sized company to pump out content for their MMO (AKA, INFINITELY LARGER THAN LEAGUE)? They put out far more, higher quality content on a far more regular schedule, they mostly balance classes with much more complex interactions, they don't spend years making a single model, they don't nickel and dime you for everything (GW2 does, but it's F2P, so that's expected), and a lot of them make less money than Riot by a VERY large amount, yet are still able to do much better work than Riot.

I really don't understand how you ever got to be successful, Riot. One of the most underhanded, greed-driven companies I've ever seen, yet whales and people just throw money at you.

42 Comments

Moooose37 votes

websites, keeping servers up to date, staffing, events, etc..... You're either trolling or have no clue in hell how a company works.

Niyumi1 votes

So, tell me what company in the world costs the majority of nearly $3B a year to operate. Including paychecks, facilities, all that... maybe $3-4M AT MOST? That's if Riot has 100 employees, which they likely don't.

Glory ln Death8 votes

Riot has 2-3k employees. If you estimate an average salary + benefits of 80k per year each, that's $160-240 million per year just for employees. Not including facilities, server upkeep, esports events and funds to pro teams, R&D, etc. Especially for a gaming company that hinges entirely on high-tech equipment for servers and content development, Riot is going to have pretty huge costs to maintain League's ability to exist.

And, in case you haven't noticed, League has one of the most frequent schedules for balance updates, as well as a fairly rapid rate of new/reworked content (new champions, reworks, items, skins, etc). Did you not notice the complete remake of their entire client from scratch? I'm not really sure where you got the idea that "none of that profit goes into the game".

Niyumi1 votes

2-3k? Sorry, Riot's not that big. Maybe 2-300. Even a thousand is stretching it.

And uh, did you realize how little work goes into that client? You talk like the client is some 20GB full-feature game or something.

Moooose34 votes

you understand that it's a worldwide company right? Not just in NA.

Niyumi1 votes

You understand that all of the dev work happens in California, right? They don't have an entire building of people working on the game in every country.

Glory ln Death7 votes

In 2013 Riot had over 1000 employees. In Marc Merrill's AMA a few months back on Reddit, he talked about how the company has grown to over 2k employees.

You should try to fact check the numbers you put out before you actually post.

Niyumi1 votes

Okay, go get me a list of all the employees. I know you can. Then I want you to count it and link it.

And if they do have 2,000 employees, and it STILL takes them a year or more to release a SINGLE MODEL AND KIT when I could go to a high school and have it done in a week with comparable or superior quality, on top of all the other bullshit they pull... that just further proves my point about them being greedy.

Glory ln Death6 votes

By "a year or more", do you mean every 1 - 2 months? Because 6 new champions were released last year, with 4 full VGUs. So, 10 completely new models and kits in 1 year.

Again, try to fact check numbers you put out before you actually post.

Niyumi1 votes

They started work on Eve last year. They worked on Yorick for several years before finishing anything. They've been working on Urgot for a year or more. They don't do it in a month or two.

I'm really starting to think they work for maybe 10 minutes a day. It's the only way it would take that long.

Nik Nikerson4 votes

You know, for someone that works in gaming, you really don't seem to understand the iterative processes that go into designing and redesigning a character in the game. Most of that time isn't spent working on the final product. In most cases, they are probably testing out dozens of ideas before settling on a final version of the character.

Paquay1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=mJ8ZXmgF,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-19T03:10:46.084+0000)

Again, try to fact check numbers you put out before you actually post.

But who needs facts when you have the anonymity of the internet and can angrily bang away at your keyboard?

Moooose36 votes

Basically any large company?? You do understand they have servers in basically every country right? It's not just the US, it's staff, servers, tech support, websites, moderators, worldwide events, changes to the game, server updates/moves, repairs, actually paying the top owners of the company.... There's so much shit that goes on that apparently you are entirely naive to. Literally live under a rock.

DrCyanide5 votes

Where in the fuck does that money go? You preach about how you put quality above all else, even money, right? So why does none of that profit go into the game?

Riot's been teasing for a while that they're putting the 's' in "Riot Games" here pretty soon, including reworking their API to reflect those changes. Some of that may also go into funding their acquisition of Radiant Entertainment, getting their games ready for release. Some of that goes into the servers/overhead for the game itself (if the 100 million monthly players figure is to be believed, then Riot probably has more servers to maintain than a lot of other companies do) and some of that goes into making contracts with ISPs for less lag (and who knows how much those deals costs, no other game company does that kind of thing).

I'm sure Riot makes a tidy profit, but I wouldn't say they're one of "the most underhanded, greed-driven companies I've ever seen". The in game content is fairly priced, they're just not showing what else the profit gets used for.

Niyumi1 votes

I call them underhanded and greed-driven because of all of their policies and how much they lie, not just because of how they don't put any of their money into their game beyond the bare minimum.

And they can't make a contract like that, it was deemed illegal a few years ago when Comcast was sued over it. Yet another lie by Riot.

DrCyanide5 votes

And they can't make a contract like that, it was deemed illegal a few years ago when Comcast was sued over it. Yet another lie by Riot.

Comcast was sued over slowing down Netflix, trying to justify it by complaining about unequal exchanges of data (all one way from Netflix's host company to Comcast's network), which is an entirely different matter than what's being discussed in that tech article (and the ones preceding it) and how Riot Games is making this work.

ISPs were treating League of Legends data the exact same as all other internet data (which is fine and good and what they should do, but slightly laggier for real time applications) then Riot said, "hum... I think we can handle that better. Can you pass it on a direct line to us as soon as it reaches your hub?", to which the ISPs replied "if you pay us for a direct line to our hub, then yeah." They effectively treat Riot like another ISP, one which sends and receives equal data loads.

So... yet another lie by Sciela?

inuitmailman3 votes

It's almost like they need money to function! (Sarcasm :p) lul

Niyumi1 votes

It's almost like their total revenue is ~$2.6B/y. It does not cost billions to run a company.

Glory ln Death4 votes

Walmart's operating costs exceed $100 Billion per year.

Niyumi1 votes

Walmart has thousands of stores in several countries. League has one server per region, and one office building in California.

Void Nargacuga6 votes

They actually have 19 locations around the world.

Niyumi1 votes

Server rooms and teeny office buildings to maintain said servers / some localization work. Nothing like their building in California.

TyrekGoldenspear5 votes

I wasn't aware you checked every location to confirm your statements.

Niyumi1 votes

Okay, so go work in gaming for a day, ask about how it would work. It's kind of common sense. In fact, go ask Riot, even though I don't think they're capable of telling the truth.

Nik Nikerson6 votes

I see you've never run a company.

Niyumi1 votes

I see you haven't either.

Nik Nikerson7 votes

No, but I worked directly under my father, who did run a company that did about $250 million in sales annually, for years. So I know a thing or two.

And the numbers I'm seeing are about $1.6 billion, but for the sake of your argument we'll say $2 billion. But this is what you're missing: That's sales, which is not the same as profit. Profit is the money you have left after expenses. It's completely possible to have $2 billion in sales, and still barely be turning a profit. I'm that's the case here, but if you think their expenses are ~$3-4 million, you have no idea how much money it actually takes keep even a small company running.

Niyumi1 votes

My uncle owns a company too. So does my grandpa.

And the article I was reading said ~$2.6B in revenue. After expenses, I said ~$2B profit. It does not cost billions to run a single, tiny game.

Nik Nikerson6 votes

Yeah. My experience isn't having a relative that ran a company. I was directly involved in running the company. I actually had to deal with the numbers involved.

And it's not solely about running one tiny game. It's a huge game (as far as number of people playing), requiring multiple networks world wide. Using your number of $2.6 billion, even if they had a net profit of 45% (which would be absolutely tremendous) they are still spending $1.69 billion. You're just crazy if you think they could run their entire company and network at a cost in the low millions.

FiddlesOnTheRoof2 votes

What!? Riot has hundreds, if not thousands of employees. The server costs alone are through the roof. I bet it costs north of 1 billion, after all things are considered. The cost of running LCS alone is in the hundreds and hundreds of millions.

Galacius3 votes

What is the purpose of this discussion? Is it to bring to everybody's attention your statement that Riot doesn't spend money on the game or to have the thread derail?

@sciela

Niyumi1 votes

As with a lot of my theads, I'm exposing a lie of Riot's, so that maybe one day people will realize the company is run by greed. Maybe then they'd demand real quality, and things would get better.

Galacius3 votes

{quoted}

As with a lot of my theads, I'm exposing a lie of Riot's, so that maybe one day people will realize the company is run by greed. Maybe then they'd demand real quality, and things would get better.

Riot is a company no? Their main objective is to make a profit and make a product for their shareholders and consumers. Yes they're greedy (as most corporations/companies are) but they're still making the product and people are more or less satisfied to a certain degree.

Niyumi1 votes

Okay, but I counter that with Nintendo under Yamauchi and Iwata. They had multiple business deals proposed to them that would have been MASSIVELY profitable, but they turned them down to stick to their principles. Now, with Iwata having passed away, Nintendo isn't a good example anymore. But, look at some of the smaller indie devs, they don't just make a game to make money, they do it because they're doing what they love and want to share their ideas with people.

There's a difference between making money and being a greedy asshat -- and Riot is heavily leaning into the latter.

Prophet of Urgod1 votes

[deleted]

Galacius2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prophet of Urgod,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=mJ8ZXmgF,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-20T22:29:20.276+0000)

It is highly inappropriate for one to stamp anent another's garden. You challenging him gives him purpose, it makes him stronger. You ignoring him will drive him closer to the fateful abyss and bring to fruition another "proper" denizen of The Miscellaneous. He needs validation and challenging him only makes him more resolute. Ignoring him leads to being unfulfilled then afraid then a madman. The weeds in this garden need to flourish, warden.

You are correct, however I would rather foster discussion and have his thread be successful then locking them over and over again. I feel this is a better idea and provides an avenue for them to express their concerns.

Niyumi1 votes

There is no successful thread when you're trying to more or less tell people they've been increasingly idiotic the last 10 years or so (Enabling F2P, enabling greed-driven companies like EA, Activision, Riot, etc., enabling DLC, etc.). People don't want to admit that, and will never agree to anything I say. That, and a lot of the playerbase here doesn't know how gaming used to be, and so doesn't know what was ripped away.

Galacius1 votes

{quoted}

There is no successful thread when you're trying to more or less tell people they've been increasingly idiotic the last 10 years or so (Enabling F2P, enabling greed-driven companies like EA, Activision, Riot, etc., enabling DLC, etc.). People don't want to admit that, and will never agree to anything I say. That, and a lot of the playerbase here doesn't know how gaming used to be, and so doesn't know what was ripped away.

A lot of the player base is roughly between the ages of 16-24. For some, this is their first online game and for others this is just some game you play when you're bored. Companies want money and companies have shareholders who expect some form of output or a product every so often. If they there's no product then there's no investment and the company loses. They serve their shareholders and at times they lose their direction (EA) and will eventually get a swift kick in the rear. My point is, companies serve themselves and the public to some degree - even if they're not transparent about it.

Bottom Laner1 votes

Well, Janna costs $2.95 a minute and Riot has been a company for at least 10 years.

Lyndris1 votes

That is almost $1.4billion a year!

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