Hey Riot, remember this thread?

Neo Cyrus··16 votes·1,429 views

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2277789

Edit: The first page of that thread doesn't even load anymore. The last red post there - http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=47596844#47596844

20 ping to Dawngate, 30 to Smite and DotA 2, 80-300 to LoL with the best connection available for under $200 a month, wired. 3-7 ping to nearby servers (Google's, ISP's, etc). If any of my friends played those games over LoL I would have been long gone and this is an extremely common sentiment among players.

How many years has LoL been around and yet the highest paying area isn't given a single server? Every game since the dawn of gaming online in the early 90s has had eastern servers. Hell the one in the west isn't even stable or up half the time. Like right now for example. Anyone who thinks that playing with 100+ ping isn't a severe handicap is either delusional or straight up trolling.

Tell me again why a multi-billion dollar corporation like Tecent refuses to provide their highest paying consumer area with a single server that costs merely thousands to buy, install and maintain?

Do I even need to point out that the overwhelming majority of players are in the east?

23 Comments

Wheatloaf6 votes

I have absolutely no problem playing with 80-120 ping, and things don't get irritating until I break 200 :s

Cynicatt1 votes

At this point I'll just be happy to have my regular 160ish ping back. I just want the packet loss and ping spikes to 400 to stop.

Roayel6 votes

Full support, this is ridiculous.

Angry Monster5 votes

Please link where you get the info that most of USA player base is EAST coast?

Also riot NA servers were in place before other region servers. Korea, Oceanic, Australia all connected to NA so it makes since that the servers were placed on the west coast.

ploki1221 votes

He never said that most of the USA player base is east coast, he said that most players were closer to the east coast, or would get lower pings from the east coast than they do on the west coast.

He also said that east coast is the biggest portion of the earnings.

Lastly, he aimed it at Tencent (since they're co-owning Riot games, although it's more of a sponsor than actual ownership)..

With those 3 statements, we can immendiately understands that he believe Korea/China is of lower value than the East coast is... I don't even know why you tried to argue.

Angry Monster1 votes

last line in the op

Do I even need to point out that the overwhelming majority of players are in the east?

He clearly states this. most/major same difference in this usage.

Again no proof. the op is guessing at earnings.

Tencent owns a major interest in Riot games. This is not sponsor ship.

ploki1221 votes

I think you misunderstood me, what I said is that he never mentionned the USA, he said that most of the players are on the east coast (and from the rest of his post, it really looked like he was talking about worldwide).

Otherwise, Tencent owns a majority of Riot Games for the sake of publishing in China but has no decesional power (as stated by the agreement). I can't find you a quote on that since it's really old, but I believe it was either Zileas or Tryndamere that mentionned it over on Reddit. Probably during the huge "coming out in the open" from Tryndamere.

Loken Stoneheart5 votes

If the split for the general population is anything close to the player base, east coast is going to have more players. It is vastly more populated than the mid and west coast. A majority of Americans live on the East Coast, or somewhere nearby.

Angry Monster2 votes

so no facts just a guess? This does not fly.

Loken Stoneheart6 votes

More people on the East Coast, more potential players. No real factors in terms of East-West differences as to if you would want to play a video game.

All signs point to.... You're a troll, go get something higher than gold with your West Coast advantage. I play better than you do when 100+/130ms of human reaction time are devoured by 100+ms ping. Shots fired, sick of you elitist scumbag west coast players who think east coasters don't deserve an even playing field.

Kao Atlantis5 votes

It wouldn't cost thousands of dollars to put servers on the east coast, it would cost millions. They would have to either lease space from a very large data center or build their own, and buy thousands of servers, plus networking equipment. They would need to make sure all the network architecture is stable, and setup properly. They would have to staff it, and maintain it. This all takes a lot of time, planning, testing, and money. However, they have also mentioned in posts that they are working on it. I remember they said they don't want to have to split North American players into two regions, so they are working on fixing some technical limitations that would stop them from having to do that.

Here is Riot's most recent post that addresses East Coast Servers:

Quote from **Cedriel **(Country Manager): [see post]


We try to be transparent on what we do and why we do it: that's why we're doing things like patch previews, post content ahead of time for feedback on PBE, write dev blogs and interact directly with players in the forums, twitter, reddit and such. Unfortunately, there are things about which we can't say much until we have something to deliver.

For instance, take a project that is still in an early stage and is undergoing a lot of testing and revision. Anything we show you is going to create excitement and set expectations, but what we actually launch might end up being very different, to the disappointment of a great many people who were anticipating something else. Sometimes, we find along the way that what seemed like a great idea turns out to just not to be fun in practice, and simply never release it because it would've been a pretty bad player experience. We messed up bad with Magma Chamber on this one, for instance.

Another example would be projects that are large in scope and technically complex. Sometimes these things change mid-development, or we find out that some problems were more complicated than we anticipated. Particularly when you're doing new things, deadlines can slip. If we promise stuff and fail to deliver, you have a right to be pissed at us. We'd rather under-promise and over-deliver!

Finally, there are projects that we simply have to be vague about for security reasons. Security often plays out like a cat-and-mouse game in which hostile parties come up with creative new vectors for attack and we come up with counter-measures. Spelling out in detail what those counter-measures will be ahead of time amounts to giving these people advance notice, and making them less effective. For instance, we're working on solutions to reduce or eliminate the pain that players feel from DDOS and drophack attacks, but we can't really talk about what or how.

We recognize that East Coast players are not getting the same quality of service that West Coast players do—and we're committed to doing something about that. Wiser heads than mine are working on this. Unfortunately, if their work hits any of those points—and almost any solution will—there's just not much we can say until it's ready or near-ready. It's frustrating to you because it feels like we're not listening, and it's frustrating for us because there's nothing that we want more than to show all the cool stuff we're doing to make League of Legends better—but there are good reasons for it.

In the meantime, all we can do is apologize for not being good enough, thanking you for your patience, and telling you that we're working on it.

Neo Cyrus9 votes

You have absolutely no idea how it works and that post doesn't support a thing you said. That post doesn't say much of anything at all.

"Buy thousands of servers" - I'll assume you're just trolling because that's beyond stupid.

Kao Atlantis2 votes

I have worked almost a decade in IT, I know what I am talking about. Network and server infrastructure is a vastly complicated thing that will take time. I was just letting you know my experience, and provided you with a post that explains more about the situation. I am not trolling, and I resent the fact that you personally attacked me instead of carrying out a civil discussion on the matter.

Here are some more posts that back things up...

Quote from Riot Foro (Network Engineer): [see full post]

We're currently working on ways to make matchmaking more intelligent so this can be possible. The last thing we want to do is make NA East and West servers and change things up, so there's a lot of design decisions to take into account.


Quote from Riot Foro (Network Engineer): [see full post]

This isn't something we're ignoring - but it's not something that is going to happen overnight either. Can't divulge any plans right now but we're working on improving latency for everyone in North America (and of course, the rest of the world in their own regional enviroments).


Quote from Riot Foro (Network Engineer): [see full post]

Further improvements are being discussed, including the possibility of distributing game servers in other locations than the West Coast. < This scenario would be a huge shakeup - and though we love challenges, we want to make sure that we pick the best solution that is going to improve everyone's experience overall, and get it right the first time.

Here is some that address servers directly:

Quote from **sonicdea **(Vice President of Operations): [see full post]

Moving servers more central for all NA players is a priority. As I mentioned earlier, truck loads of servers are purchased, we just need to lock down the data center contract and get the Internet circuits installed. In the meantime the servers near Portland, OR will see connection improvement for many players as the direct connections to the major ISPs and telcos get installed (more are getting hooked up every week). We were maxed out of quality space, Internet bandwidth, and power in the Los Angeles area so Oregon was the best choice at the time to get large amounts of servers up and running (Facebook, Apple and a few other major players are an easy drive away), it is technically only 7-9 msec further away from the LA area (if LA was the better place, it is not for all players) but we need to optimize the routing and circuit mix to really achieve the best possible connection for all players to the Oregon located servers. The team is working long hours to get this done. ... Another team is focused on getting game servers spun up more centrally which will then allow Oregon to become the fall back site if things go into the ditch in a bad way (something we have not had as option in the past). So net, Oregon is a temporary hop which has allowed us to significantly expand the number of game servers and other resources we have needed to help stabilize NA. Next step is to optimize ping time for as many players as we can in Oregon and then a more central to NA location which we will tell you about as soon as we lock it down.

So yes, network operations are a lot more complicated than just putting a thousand dollars into buying a few servers. Remember that every game being played in League of Legends requires a powerful computer behind it.

I wasn't saying your concerns about lag weren't valid, they are, I am just giving you information that Riot has stated about East Coast servers, and what they have said about them.

Loken Stoneheart6 votes

Its been 1+ year since they acknowledged the problem, and its "been on their radar" even longer. There were plans for East Coast servers / East Coast solutions FIVE YEARS AGO WHEN THE GAME WAS BRAND NEW.

Angry Monster1 votes

Their were never plans for east coast servers. Stop with your lies.

Neo Cyrus7 votes

You keep wandering off into your own world talking about things which no one else is. No one said it's not complicated. It doesn't matter how many Riot posts you pull up if you're just trying to change the topic to something remotely related. You said they would literally have to purchase thousands of servers. And I'm calling bullshit on that.

They're a multi billion dollar corporation, it's been 5 years, and the majority of their revenue comes from us. Their top customers don't get basic service. That's an absolute joke.

Kao Atlantis1 votes

I am just pointing out that Riot has mentioned a number of times, as recently as a month ago that they are working on east coast/central servers. Which I thought would be helpful. I have said I agree 100% with you that the East Coast players have valid concerns, and that Riot needs to address them. I just wanted to show you that they are working on it. Yes, slowly, I agree. But I thought it would help for you to see what they have said about the East Coast lag problems.

Cynicatt3 votes

You seem to have very little idea how this works. Trust me, they would have to try very hard to spend even a single million on new servers. As for a place to put them, they already have Riot buildings in St. Louis(Missouri) and New York, both of which would be fantastic places for an east coast server. Furthermore, sonicdeathmonk had already stated that they had the hardware ready for new servers and gave me the impression they have some new servers just kinda sitting around at Riot HQ gathering dust.

Kao Atlantis1 votes

I addressed some of that in my followup post here.

Data Centers are vastly complex operations that take up a ton of space, and require very expensive devices other than servers. Including large backup generators, cooling systems, network equipment, etc.

Though not many gaming companies discuss their server and network operations, World of Warcraft did a while ago. League of Legends has more players so keep than in mind after you realize how large their operations are. This article here discusses their servers.

I am not saying the OP is wrong... improving the lag for East coast players if definitely of major importance. I am just shedding light on things Riot has said in the past, and on how much more complicated it is than just throwing a few thousand dollars of servers at the problem.

Melies1 votes

I get that it is not easy, and I acknowledge that you are probably more understanding of this crap; but I still feel that EC players need a server. It's damn hard for me to play a match with no ping. Also the amount of times my friend gets disconnected from the server is tremendously ridiculous. It might be hard to do, but damn can we at least get an update every so often.

Kao Atlantis1 votes

I was never saying there doesn't need to be East Coast servers, I was just trying to shed light on why it's taking so long even though they said they want to make them. I agree completely that East Coast/Central servers would be good. And I hope that they are done sooner rather than later, but it needs to be done right.

Cynicatt1 votes

I don't think they ever said they wanted to make them, they just said they're "sensitive to the issue" or some work-around response like that. None of us really have any idea if they're actually working on it at all.

They mentioned something about moving the servers centrally, but I don't think they would ever move the servers away from their HQ knowing that they would get higher ping as a result. Not to mention a central location would be near the lowest population areas in NA, so a pretty small percentage of the player base would be getting the most ideal ping, which doesn't exactly seem like the best deal.

It would just at least be nice if they discussed their thoughts on the matter rather than totally ignoring the people who want to know what's being done about it.

Kao Atlantis1 votes

They already moved their main servers to Oregon because they outgrew the Los Angeles area. They also mentioned that this was part of the preparation of getting servers closer to the east coast.

Quote from **sonicdea **(Vice President of Operations): [see full post]

Moving servers more central for all NA players is a priority. As I mentioned earlier, truck loads of servers are purchased, we just need to lock down the data center contract and get the Internet circuits installed. In the meantime the servers near Portland, OR will see connection improvement for many players as the direct connections to the major ISPs and telcos get installed (more are getting hooked up every week). We were maxed out of quality space, Internet bandwidth, and power in the Los Angeles area so Oregon was the best choice at the time to get large amounts of servers up and running (Facebook, Apple and a few other major players are an easy drive away), it is technically only 7-9 msec further away from the LA area (if LA was the better place, it is not for all players) but we need to optimize the routing and circuit mix to really achieve the best possible connection for all players to the Oregon located servers. The team is working long hours to get this done.

...

Another team is focused on getting game servers spun up more centrally which will then allow Oregon to become the fall back site if things go into the ditch in a bad way (something we have not had as option in the past). So net, Oregon is a temporary hop which has allowed us to significantly expand the number of game servers and other resources we have needed to help stabilize NA. Next step is to optimize ping time for as many players as we can in Oregon and then a more central to NA location which we will tell you about as soon as we lock it down.

That was 6 months ago though. In theory they should be well on their way... Your guess is as good as mine as to when that will be however.

Another Rioter had said that due to security and other concerns they can't really discuss the plans for the eastern servers. That was the last thing I have read by Riot on it, and it was a month ago.

Quote from Cedriel (Country Manager): [see full post]

... We recognize that East Coast players are not getting the same quality of service that West Coast players do—and we're committed to doing something about that. Wiser heads than mine are working on this. Unfortunately, if their work hits any of those points—and almost any solution will—there's just not much we can say until it's ready or near-ready. It's frustrating to you because it feels like we're not listening, and it's frustrating for us because there's nothing that we want more than to show all the cool stuff we're doing to make League of Legends better—but there are good reasons for it.

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