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Why do rework patches leave out info or straight-up lie?

Neo Cyrus·9/30/2014, 8:27:29 PM·72 votes·5,059 views

The Sona rework patch left out all numbers to try to avoid backlash. This Cassiopeia rework straight up lies. If a rework nerfs a champion so badly that you have to lie about it, then for once stop and consider that maybe you screwed up. Which of course you did.

The patch notes - http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-416-notes

Q - Nerfed from 235 + 0.8 AP 3s CD 0.60s delay to 235 + 0.35 AP 4s CD 0.65s delay - Mentions damage nerf but doesn't mention CD nerf which renders the passive CDR moot, nor does it mention that it has a larger delay.

W - Full damage nerfed from 585 + 1.35 AP 9s CD to 270 + 0.90 AP 10s CD - Patch notes make it sound like it was just a tiny change from 65 + 0.15 to 30 + 0.1 and leave out the CD nerf. Most people don't realize it's 7 seconds + 2 more making it 9 total, the nerf is monstrous.

E - Nerfed from 190 + 0.55 AP 0.5s reset to 155 + 0.60 AP 0.7s reset - Patch notes pretend the base was always 155. Later patch claims 0.7s nerf was a "bug" despite it being reported 9007 times during the PBE cycle long before the "rework" was released, just like Sona's Q range.

R - Nerfed from 450 + 0.60 AP 110s CD to 350 + 0.50 AP 100s CD - Patch notes pretend nothing was changed except accuracy.

How stupid do you think the average player is? People notice these things, it just makes you look bad.

10% Spell Vamp, 3% mana on kill, and E resetting on use rather than on hit doesn't make up for gutting her numbers. The rest of the bonuses aren't actual bonuses, they're lies, stats simply removed and added to a theoretical end-game that doesn't happen. That's not a rework, that's cutting out all her damage and restoring part of it after a 45 minute stacking game. This is the most atrocious "rework" I have ever seen. Waiting another week for more data will yield the same thing.

Edit: To be clear the calculations have all been done already. Just dig up any of the threads or find it in the mega thread. Even after being pigeon-holed into a build that forces you to use Rabadon's to get a 77.45% boost in AP and if you somehow manage to get 400 stacks (1.3x1.3x1.05=1.7745) it's still a very heavily nerfed champion end-game. Particularly considering your damage is now all pretty much single-target rather than strong AoE. In any real scenario instead of a crazy imaginary one this nerf is massive even when taking into consideration the best cases of the realistic ones, as in all things being considered with that 77.45% boost which rarely happens.

Your lies/patch notes and your excuses in them sicken me and your contempt for your player base makes it sound like you need a new job. Now whenever we see patch notes we'll have to assume they're not true until we can confirm them, nice job, Riot really needed a reputation as liars.

95 Comments

Serpents Embrace9/30/2014, 8:39:49 PM15 votes

You've noticed, then, the sheer rate that they're peddling out this shit right now - yeah? I don't know why but "quality" was knocked off of Riot's priority recently.

Thanks for crunching all the numbers, though. It just gives further credence to the outcry on the Cassiopeia rework. In Cassi's case, though, it seems less to be Riot as a whole or a company and more about Stashu and his unprofessional conduct when it comes to communication. If you've checked out this post he's basically saying he won't deal with anything said in his thread when he finally feels like getting back to us on it.

Sintobus9/30/2014, 10:00:26 PM12 votes

So mind if I do some basic theory crafting here with you? Just to throw some numbers out there...

Cassiopeia gains a stack of Aspect of the Serpent for each second that an enemy champion is poisoned, for each poisoned unit that she kills and when she hits an enemy champion with Twin Fang, up to a max. of 400 stacks.

Theoretically just poisoning someone non-stop it would take just under 7 minutes to get 400 stacks (400 seconds / 60 = 6.66-6)

because it was missed the above less than 7 mins is based off someone purely being poisoned for that entire time solid which is obviously impossible

That is just landing poison on someone which is relatively simple the biggest weakness being the cast time between casting and the poison landing on the ground.

You ALSO get a stack for every twin fang landed

Cassiopeia

RANGE: 700 COST: 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 MANA COOLDOWN: 5 ACTIVE: Cassiopeia fires fangs at an enemy, dealing magic damage. If her target is poisoned, Twin Fang's cooldown is reduced to 0.5 seconds. MAGIC DAMAGE: 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 / 155 (+ 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60% AP) If Twin Fang kills the target, refunds its mana cost plus 3% of her maximum mana

If I were to compare this to another champions basic farming spell it would have to be Annie.

Annie

Disintegrate RANGE: 625 COST: 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 MANA COOLDOWN: 4 ACTIVE: Annie blasts target enemy with a fireball, dealing magic damage. MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 115 / 150 / 185 / 220 (+ 80% AP) If Disintegrate kills the target, it refunds its mana cost and its cooldown is halved.

Looking at these two I would have to say Cassio is more capable of DPSing and sustain off of twinfang than annie is with Disintegrate. She gets more mana back, a lower cooldown, longer range and not to mention the spell vamp essentially from her passive. That dosen't look that bad to me.

Now lets look at her Q and W from what you posted

** Q - Nerfed from 235 + 0.8 AP 3s CD 0.60s delay to 235 + 0.35 AP 4s CD 0.65s delay** ** W - Full damage nerfed from 585 + 1.35 AP 9s CD to 270 + 0.90 AP 10s CD**

Q had its AP ratio cut in over half oh boohoo its harder to land free aoe damage on someone~

Lets compare her Q her aoe near instant harass to another champion karthus.

Noxious Blast Cassiopeia RANGE: 850 COST: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 MANA COOLDOWN: 4 ACTIVE: Cassiopeia hurls poison at the cursor's location, which strikes after a 0.65 second delay. All enemies within the 75-radius area are poisoned, taking magic damage over 3 seconds. MAGIC DAMAGE PER SECOND: 25 / 38.33 / 51.67 / 65 / 78.33 (+ 15% AP) TOTAL MAGIC DAMAGE: 75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235 (+ 45% AP) Cassiopeia gains a movement speed boost for 3 seconds if Noxious Blast damages a champion. MOVEMENT SPEED: 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30%

Now Karthus Karthus and his MAIN harass in lane

Lay Waste RANGE: 875 COST: 20 / 26 / 32 / 38 / 44 MANA COOLDOWN: 1 ACTIVE: Karthus creates a point of unstable magic at the target location that detonates after a 0.5 second delay, dealing magic damage to enemies in a 200 radius area (the damage is doubled if only one enemy is hit). MAGIC DAMAGE (MULTIPLE TARGET): 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 (+ 30% AP) MAGIC DAMAGE (SINGLE TARGET): 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+ 60% AP)

So what do we see here? Cass has a harder time landing her Q in a smaller area alright. The delay is higher and the aoe is smaller. Is this her main DPS in lane? No it is suppose to be her E. Lets take a look at her damage her base numbers are pretty similar for damage versus karthus single target damage. The difference here? She lands that full damage in an AoE DoT. She also gains %Move speed for 3 seconds similar to item 3044

Have to reply to myself my post is too long

Hyper Neon9/30/2014, 11:17:13 PM9 votes

Thank you for sacrificing your time and effort in order to bring light to Cassiopeia's "rework" and how it made her become worse in the end.

Worgslarg9/30/2014, 9:32:41 PM7 votes

While you may be right about the patch notes, you made your point into a giant Cass rework sucks Q-Q thread. If you're gonna complain about the rework, at least make it a post about her.

Canastus10/1/2014, 2:23:25 PM7 votes

Let's not forget the biggest lie of them all:

Most importantly, I'd like to reassure all of our Cassiopeia players that this is not intended as a nerf. If anything, these changes seek to increase her viability.

Canastus10/2/2014, 8:23:37 AM5 votes

The recent PBE changes went up and once again Cass was left out of the loop.

They're simply mocking us at this point.

chriserit9/30/2014, 8:52:25 PM5 votes

Q: Strike after 0,6 seconds delay --> Strike after 0,65 seconds delay

RiotRiot King Cobra10/1/2014, 2:07:49 AM4 votes

It can be argued that Cassiopeia's old passive was a chore as well. If you didn't main Cass it was an absolute pain in the ass to remember that you need to spam a spell every 5 seconds. For those who played her a lot, it became almost second nature, but her old passive was much less friendly than the new one. Additionally, her old passive basically become useless late game if you opted for Tear or, god forbid, Athene's.

Looking beyond the numbers, the changes to Cassio weren't "wild" and they definitely were not "incredibly unpopular" (although the thread on general discussion would make you say otherwise). Her kit is largely the same. They just shifted her power around. There are about 20-30 (realistically it's something like 15 people) people on the forums here who are very vocally against the rework. However, I would say that the vast majority of players though are more than OK with the changes to Cass. And while it sucks that SOME of her mains have to suffer, in the grand scheme of the game, she's in a healthier and more balance-able position.

Canastus10/8/2014, 8:27:05 PM3 votes

Looks like my fears were actually confirmed. Not a single trace of any further Cass changes. They're simply going to pretend as if nothing ever happened and leave her to rot.

Do not let them get away with this. Keep those threads up every single day until they give in.

Neo Cyrus10/9/2014, 9:46:28 PM3 votes

No numbers on the Sion rework. Better than lying I suppose. I don't know why they didn't bother release those numbers, it's not like it's 90% the same champion as before except with its numbers halved unlike a certain other example.