I see this happen a lot; someone on my team feeds really hard and then the enemy team says they'll honor him because his feeds allowed them to win. Riot, I would like you to add a new option to the reporting drop down menu. Someone honoring feeding just because it allowed them to win is a whole new breed of toxicity. You can bet they would be singing a different tune if the feeder was on their team.
IcyPepper7 votesIsn't that just griefing? Or verbal harassment?
shrugs
Or you can just report them for negative behavior.
PanterLily1 votesHe wants to accordingly report the one that honors the griefer.
Jubbinaut1 votesWell, sure. But why does that need a special report option? Why not just use what's available? Negative Attitude is an option that works well.
PanterLily1 votesThe system will most often determine that as a "False Report", hence his reports will loose value to the system.
Jubbinaut1 votesThe system judges false reports in the same way false reports were always judged - regardless of the option chosen, if the case is deemed toxic, the report isn't false.
PanterLily1 votesAaaa.....
The system is changed a lot the past year... Probably still changing....
i don't think that The Robot System will look for anything else then negative attitude if u are reported for negative attitude. If u do what u suggested should be done the report will not be false if the player actually had demonstrated a baseline negative attitude. Even if 3 people reported him, he will be warned for negative attitude, not for the thing he was actually reported. Which gets you nowhere. And then not reported at all makes more sense.
Jubbinaut1 votesThe system is changed a lot the past year... Probably still changing....
Certain aspects have changed, yes. The policies and intents that guide the system, however, haven't changed appreciably.
i don't think that The Robot System will look for anything else then negative attitude if u are reported for negative attitude.
Of course it would. Why would it not compare the case to its entire database? Additionally, since it reviews cases rather than individual reported games, why would the reports of a single game determine what it looks for over all the games in the case?
Even if 3 people reported him, he will be warned for negative attitude, not for the thing he was actually reported. Which gets you nowhere. And then not reported at all makes more sense.
The warnings aren't connected to any review system. And, as I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the Report system doesn't pay attention to how many reports a person receives in a game - only how many games they've received reports in.
PanterLily1 votesOf course it would. Why would it not compare the case to its entire database? Additionally, since it reviews cases rather than individual reported games, why would the reports of a single game determine what it looks for over all the games in the case?
I still dont get you; Why would the system determine that the "Negative Attitude" report as valid, if the report was meant to someone who didn't actually had a negative attitude, but was reported for honoring a feeder? How will the system figure out why was he actually reported?
Why do u believe that the system can read comments as human? Someone needs to add the phrases like "Honored an unskilled player for feeding him" so the system can know to act upon those reports even if they are under the wrong category. Even if the system see a new frequently occurring phrase in reports, it cant do anything on his own (If it can - hello Skynet) except to report back to staff . And by the time it all gets processed in offices and meetings.... Well the OP is a nice option to get it in to the system faster (if need be to get it in to the system).
And about the warnings; My point was: The reported summoner - if willing to improve his behavior will get the wrong message - "Negative attitude". Which was meant in the case if your advance (report for negative) would work.
Jubbinaut1 votesI still dont get you; Why would the system determine that the "Negative Attitude" report as valid, if the report was meant to someone who didn't actually had a negative attitude, but was reported for honoring a feeder? How will the system figure out why was he actually reported?
If he was deemed toxic, then the report is valid. Because the specific option chosen for the report isn't as important as what the system detects.
Why do u believe that the system can read comments as human? Someone needs to add the phrases like "Honored an unskilled player for feeding him" so the system can know to act upon those reports even if they are under the wrong category.
How do you know that phrase hasn't been added already?
Even if the system see a new frequently occurring phrase in reports, it cant do anything on his own (If it can - hello Skynet) except to report back to staff . And by the time it all gets processed in offices and meetings.... Well the OP is a nice option to get it in to the system faster (if need be to get it in to the system).
Actually, it can. It's Machine Learning - it can shift and adjust its own database based upon determinations made by other entries in that database.
PanterLily1 votesActually, it can. It's Machine Learning - it can shift and adjust its own database based upon determinations made by other entries in that database.
As I said - hello Skynet.
https://truthernews.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/skynet_logo.jpg
I have yet to see(or read about) a piece of publicly used software used on current machines that learns new things by itself.
As far as I know Machine Learning is term used when u write a software that triggers its events based on conditions that used to happened in a repetitive time interval, like user changing its phone from silent to loud every day in 5 o'clock, the software if allowed by the user will remember the time frames and will change it for him. Or it can remember a whole set of interactions and conditions; every time you are on the highway with your phone (location on) , probably going to work and someone calls you reject almost every call - and most of the times you immediately respond with a message; Your phone can open "Write a message" to the rejected caller by it self.
This sounds cool and smart but your phone repeats a decision, it is not making it by it self. You need to make it first and repeat its outcome a number of times in order the device to mimic you. It learns what you do it doesn't learn why you do it . And it certainty doesn't learn what the consequences/effects of your actions will be, like your boss getting annoyed for not answering the phone.
This is not learning this is repeating of previous repetitive interactions from the user, they are all based of sets of "If" and "Else if" in the code, there is nothing intelligent about them. The Computers could have done this same thing decades ago, your phone works on the same way as computers worked 50 years ago, this features are on now because of all the exes power and memory that the devices have.
Google has done immense research to make computing smarter and more human like, but its still the same thing , just remembering your habits and preferences and offering them back to you.
Its nothing smarter than the script on these boards when checking your text before setting it in preview, going: "if line brakes group has more than 2 - delete all and add 2".
If Machine Learning was actually Machine Learning - U wouldn't wait for those updates on your apps written by a human to download from some server : your phone would have updated/upgraded them internally.
And by the way; databases just hold information in tables, software reads, writes and deletes that information and that was apparently the whole purpose of databases, so that shifting and adjusting was done from beginning of their time to them.
The problems why machines cant learn or be intelligent lies in the problem. They just cant find a problem, with anything! According to them everything everywhere is OK. Its not even awesome its just plain ok. They don't know if an occurrence will be a problem unless we tell them it is or it is going to be. They just cant find a new problem. And don't get the wrong idea, when an software says back "ERROR" its actually a specially written software tracking the processes on the software on which the error happened.
The way our brain works is just predicting the future; all day long watching and smelling and touching: and trying to figure out what is going to happen if you cross the street or if you eat a candy or if you insult someone. It compares all current available data with past experiences and acts to set itself to be in the most comfortable situation possible in any outcome.
Machines from now just don't have access to such vast "current" and "experienced" data and the power to go fast trough that data as brains do. And they have very hard time valuing that data as currently necessary or irrelevant.
We will know when a computer gets intelligent; It will ask "What is that?" and will probably ask to sleep an hour after that to process and value all the new information. If its not asking question its not smart and its definitely not learning.
But what do I know. I just write software 8 hours a day. Maybe you are right - Skynet is on the rise.
So No! Im strongly convinced that Riot doesn't have a system that can find a newly ** (new for it) occurring toxic behavior manifested by a human and suggest action by itself. The system doesn't know what the comments mean in a report, just does what a human tells it to do if it finds them. The "Learning" part probably just refers to part of the finalizing process of a case: it does the background checks on the reported summoner and if quota is met builds a case. It then "grades" his current case based on previous outcomes on which staff passed judgement on to him , or the next most similar case to his. If the grade is concerning staff its notified that case needs judgement. And stuff judges it - then if the system "Learns" **his case for future comparison for similar behaviors.
So basically you report him for "Negative Attitude", he doesn't say anything in chat except "gg" = False report. Just because all previous "Negative Attitude" with no chating back from the reported one are "Pardon".
Jubbinaut1 voteshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_learning
"Machine learning is a scientific discipline that explores the construction and study of algorithms that can learn from data. Such algorithms operate by building a model from example inputs and using that to make predictions or decisions, rather than following strictly static program instructions."
The context post -
That's a little too cynical. Dollars to donuts it's some sort of a classifier (+), trained on some, likely reasonably large, hand-labelled English corpus of toxic behavior. Think of it as being a bit like an email spam filter; it's more or less the same problem – given a player's chat transcripts from a game, are they toxic or non-toxic? There are various bits of NLP (e.g. stemming, POS tagging, etc) and/or dimensionality reduction (e.g. LSI or LDA) you could add in there as feature engineering, they might improve your predictive performance or not. Spam filters get outrageously good performance with very simple models, after all. Anyway, this kind of thing isn't trivial to put together, it's proper engineering — but it's a known kind of problem, and /u/RiotLyte and friends have solid machine learning talent there. So Occam's razor suggests this is what they're up to. Wikipedia ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_classification (+) could actually be a regression model if they're doing scoring, not classification, but amounts to much the same thing really.
Lyte's response -
This player knows what he's talking about :) But, instead of a hand-labelled English corpus, we crowdsource the labeling of data through player reports, honors, and old Tribunal data. This is why the system works for all languages even though my team specifically can't read (or label) data from all languages. Because we're consistently getting new labelled data, the system can keep up with emerging trends in verbal toxicity.
Once the system has a sizable dataset to work from, it can use the crowdsourced labeling of future data to determine proper labels, after that data is validated by comparison to prior inputs.
As that poster noted, it's the same basic problem facing spam filters.
TomA3X4 votesJust write it in the comment box, there doesn't have to be a drop down for everything does there?
PanterLily1 votesThe system is not so smart, the tribunal was, but @Lyte fixed it.
Stars Shaper2 votesThis is what happen when you don't hard punish ppl for being utter assholes and just tell ppl who try to play in team and get pissed "it's a game", "it's just normals" "it's just a troll" "w/e"
now I hope you all will enjoy the shithole you created
bad arcade kitty2 votesit used to be a common reason to honor your enemy i once had a game when i did very poorly, was honored by enemy olaf, got mad, and the next game that olaf landed on my team.... the whole game olaf (now vayne) tried to explain to me that s/he actually liked that we tried and honored everybody on my team but i didn't listen to him and did everything to make the game as much unfun for him as possible (: was pretty fun (for me) overall, iirc we even won
phirestarter1 votesdude, they are probably being sarcastic.
Sir Yamazuki1 votesdude, they are probably being sarcastic.
Nope, people do honor feeders whether intentional or not, there are even people who won't report intentional feeders or afkers on opposing teams because it's the reason they won.
phirestarter3 votesI know that I've said the exact same thing sarcastically when someone on the other team feeds.
How do you know they honored the feeder? Did the feeder tell you that they got 2 teamworks and a friendly? Or what?
slippykitten1 votesOr you could recognize that it makes no friggin difference if they get honored or not?
Godhri1 votesThis is an unfortunate reality. Recently, I've had games with toxic people and people who intentionally afk. When I asked the enemy team to help report, this was their response: "Why?" "I would too if I was doing that badly" and here is one that was specific to a game I played "I would too if my support had to babysit mid lane and they still lost the lane".
Unfortunately, I'm not sure there really is a way to combat this. Shaming features don't work as they are easily abused.
Jubbinaut1 votesThing is, though, their reports don't matter.
The Report system builds cases on the number of reported games - so whether a player receives 1 report in a game or 9, it's still just one reported game. All that matters is that you report what you think should be reported.
Holîday1 votesI get that riot is trying to give players the chance to, on the whole, exclude overly negative people from the game but... I really feel like many people are going way too far now. There's been threads that people said they would report/ban someone for typing easy at the end of a game while saying / doing nothing toxic for the whole rest of the game. Now you want to report someone who honors someone on your team doing bad because it made them have an easier game.. I mean really its getting to the point where this community sounds like 5 yr old tattletales who can't wait to report someone for the tiniest things. I really think many of the people on this board are turning into something just as toxic as the actual trolls/ragers, which is to say they are just a bunch of crying babies looking for any excuse to vent out the frustration of a loss onto other players. At this point they should just disable chat entirely because its obvious a growing number of people simply cannot handle interaction with others over the internet.
