When Riot actually gave in to players outcrys over Zed.

Guy Fox Teemo·Jun 2, 2016·3 votes·387 views

Live on Stream the play testers admitted that pretty much the only reason they nerfed Zed was because players disliked Zed and not because he was strong. (Look at the last vod on the league of legends channel) It seems if you complain about something enough Riot will eventually give in.

Legit said on stream the only reason they nerfed him was because people didn't like him and not because he was strong :l.

If only that was the same for Dynamic Queue :c

10 Comments

IcyPepperJun 2, 20164 votes

It seems if you complain about something enough Riot will eventually give in.

Have you seen his ban rate?

It's not that people just complained, they acted on those feelings. Not that I support or oppose DQ, but I'm sure things would change if 80% of the entire playerbase among all elos boycotted DQ.

Guy Fox TeemoJun 2, 20161 votes

I very much doubt that, if you've read the responses they've given on Solo Queue VS Dynamic Queue, they are hard set on making Dynamic Queue stay and never going back to Solo Queue. There answer is "This is better for the game, we are undermining solo players a LOT, were not going to do anything, but its for the best."

IcyPepperJun 2, 20164 votes

... I'm pretty sure that if 80% of the playerbase (that plays ranked) stopped playing ranked, they would consider that there may be a problem. They would, at least, feel enough pressure to at least fix some of the more unsavory aspects.

The point is I'm saying we forced their hand with Zed, not by bitching, but banning him so much across all elos that it was clear to anyone with an inkling of understanding of statistics and game theory that Zed was not 100% healthy for the game in his current state. What his problem is requires someone more knowledgeable than I to answer, but the playerbase forced Riot's hand.

LankPantsJun 2, 20163 votes

Zed is basically what Yorick is. He's just incredibly unfun and frustrating to play against. He should be treated in the same way, made garbage and unplayable until Riot can actually fix the champion so that people don't have to deal with his bullshit or waste a ban every game.

SonaTitsAndAssJun 2, 20161 votes

Oh yeah this has never happened before... MasterYi ... Akali ... Aatrox ... Jax ... Kassadin ... Kennen ... Olaf ... Shyvana ... Yorick ..

Some of these if your knew you would argue about like kennen but if you looked at him before nerfs he was considered the perfect champ but players simply bitched to much about him, I think the is more songs about kennen when he was op then many other champion. The poster child of "its no fun nerf it" has got to be yorick... keep in mind that's the real why he is deliberately weak and is not allowed on the weekly free rotations and is up for a reason, people didn't like playing vs him. This is nothing new the only different is zed has an extremely large fan base unlike the other champs this has happened to.

I'm sorry for that gross as fuck grammar this tablet is retarded I'm not that stupid I promised but it's so much effort to fix on a tiny as fuck touchscreen at 4:35 in the morning.

Lord DesertJun 2, 20161 votes

wowowowo hold your horses, I dont even think that "the nerfs" to zed are even nerfs but buffs... wait, read first! his q does -25(rank5) raw and -0.1Adscaling dmg. So only his 1 shurican poke got nerfed a tiny little bit, BUT he does MORE dmg at 2 and even way more at 3, these "nerfs" are actualy BUFFS for good zeds! its not even super hard to hit 2 shurricans and its in theory a buff to his waveclear too... so pls dont,. NEVER call those "changes" nerfs again! I think his banrate should be even HIGHER right now! if you want i can show you the math, if you dont believe me.

Guy Fox TeemoJun 2, 20161 votes

Lets say Zed has 100 AD at lvl 9 when his Q is maxed.

Q - Razor Shuriken DAMAGE 75/115/155/195/235 ⇒ 70/105/140/175/210 RATIO 1.0 bonus attack damage ⇒ 0.9 bonus attack damage DAMAGE PER ADDITIONAL SHURIKEN 50% ⇒ 75%

Zeds Q will do: 300 With the new changes

Zeds old Q will: 335 Old Q Thats about a 11% damage decrease on your main ability that you use for harass, wave clear, all ins, etc.

Zeds QW will do: 300+225= 525. With the new changes

Zeds old QW will: 335+167= 502

Thats about a 4.5% damage increase on an ability that has a 22 second cool down, vs his Q which is used a lot more, is maxed first, and is his core ability.

Overall these are nerfs because your giving very slight power to landing two Qs, while hitting his Core ability which he relies on heavily. These are I'd say nerfs. Landing 3 Q's isn't plausible in most situations as thats an even longer cooldown because of ult , so not a very good trade off for the minimal extra 4.5% (That has a very long cooldown) vs losing out on 11% on his CORE ability thats semi low cd.

These nerfs are going to hit quite hard to the point of being bad, as he already is average/under performing across all mid laners.

Lord DesertJun 2, 20161 votes

I can completly understand your point, but you have a free, 6 sec cd harass and can push the lane with your e too(not so good but still free aoe dmg) and dont forget, you will not notice the nerfs below rank 4: - 5/10/15 Dmg is nothing and you will even deal more dmg with your QW even if it has a 22 sec cd! Dont deal with % numbers with low numbers your 11% is 35 and the 4% is 23.....

Q rank rank1 rank2 rank3 rank4 rank5 old QW: 112.5 172.5 232.5 292.5 352.5 new QW: 122.5 183.75 245 306.5 367.5

you did the math with 100 bonus Ad, lets get to bonus 200Ad: old QW: (425Q) 652.5 and QWR: 850 new QW: (390Q) 682.5 975

And even 300: old: 535 802.5 1070 new: 480 840 1200

You see he does more dmg, while beeing "nerfed". He doenst have a 60%+ winrate because everybody wants to play him, not just the mains or skilled player. zed is someone like azir who requiers some skill to be dezent. Before this patch is was like yeah zed is a little strong, but with this patch I hope i will NEVER face a skilled zed! He will now whop my ass even more! Just put the old qss on the mercu and theres is no cheap counter for zeds. lategame a QWAA comb is already enough to get an adc below 40% you dont need to ult that much. I call this a "skill dependend change" and not a nerf!

Guy Fox TeemoJun 2, 20161 votes

The point is, nerfing his Q hurts significantly more then buffing his combos, A LOT MORE. Base damages hurt a lot (See -3 ad base nerf on vayne, almost fell completely out of the meta after)

He uses his Q for everything and no 5/10/25 damage is a lot in the early game, when you have such low base health that can be the difference between someone dying and not dying. That base damage also affects how much your combos do, how much you can harass, push without your w, etc.

Your not keeping in mind in the fact that we are dealing with %, so late game it "Does more damage" but its still the same percent and as late game scales will have the same affect it had early on just a bit slightly more due to how things scale.

Zed wasn't in need of nerfs, he doesn't have a 49% win rate because everyone plays him, he has that because he is average, the average person who plays a game with Zed has 62 games on him. Thats more then enough to be at least decently experienced, so you'd think higher win rate right? Wrong, he isn't in need of nerfs, and the only reason he's getting them is because people dislike like him.

Lord DesertJun 2, 20161 votes

His Q nerfs may hurt with pushing but not as much with harassing. To do the same dmg as 10 Qs you need to do 11Qs... sometimes the -25dmg matters sometimes it doesnt. And you can get 1 old Q, if you hit a QW combo. 5-15 less dmg vs a champ is not much because they have so much hp and eat alot of Qs, vs minions its more important because it can be the diffrence between 1 hit or 2 hit.

Ok, why your % dont work: you said 11% decrease and 5% increase, right? 1 Q and 1 QW: old: 335+ 502 =>837 new: 300+ 525 => 825 the diffrence 12 less dmg = 1.5% less dmg, not 6% less dmg Dont use %! flat values say way more and cant be mistaken.

He may not needed a nerf in the past, but with his main counter removed, without any compensation, he needs them, but he is now even stronger in mid/lategame vs adcs etc. its only a tiny little bitharder to stomp your lane early. His winrate with 1-15 games is at 47% at PLAT+ LEVEL and above 54% with 125+ and 15-50 49% they just got to know what zed can do. 2/3 of all zeds are still learning(as plats+), thats why he has <50% winrate. I would say his power got shiffted in to mid/late game but he does not got nerfed the way he needs to be to be balaneced again.