Another promo series lost...

MrWasjig·Oct 18, 2015·3 votes·896 views

(FFS moderators just MOVE the thread other than outright delete it!) Make that 4 in a row. But this one was lost due to a smurf. I just can't get a break here.

A smurf. How fucking brilliant.

Can I just say something here? If you're thinking of smurfing, don't. Stay in your own ELO. (There! I removed the comment about suicide, Moderators)

Every time it's the same thing. Perfect matches leading up to promos, and then it all falls to complete shit. Why are promos even a thing?

They're not a fair or reasonable way of judging whether or not someone is good enough to advance they're just completely arbitrary. An extra 2-3 arbitrary games for absolutely no bloody good reason whatsoever. Other than to just fuck with people, and spit in their faces with absolute giggling contempt.

I am getting so sick of this bullshit.

26 Comments

EL HAMSTEROOct 18, 20151 votes

they used to base rank purely on your matchmaking rating. but they thought people were getting 'mmr anxiety' so they improved to the system we have today.

MrWasjigOct 18, 20154 votes

I'd much prefer a pure MMR system. At least we wouldn't have to put up with the bullshit we call promotional series.

SmokedAlmondsOct 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'd much prefer a pure MMR system. At least we wouldn't have to put up with the bullshit we call promotional series.

Not like it would actually change anything about your rank anyway. You would either not even be high enough to be promoted or be getting promoted and demoted on a regular basis.

MrWasjigOct 19, 20152 votes

I really don't care. Anything to remove promotional series because they are most certainly not a fair way to judge someone's worthiness of climbing.

SmokedAlmondsOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I really don't care. Anything to remove promotional series because they are most certainly not a fair way to judge someone's worthiness of climbing.

There's nothing unfair about promos. You might not like them which is certainly fine but that doesn't make them unfair. Everyone has to do promos and if you can't get through it then you likely don't belong on the other side anyway. If you are just struggling to get through promos then it means you are right on the line and need to prove you belong on the other side.

You have over 500 ranked games played. If you belonged higher you would be higher. Its not promos holding you back its your own ability. Promos are just an excuse. Looking at your history it looks like you belong in silver 3 right now but with short bursts of either luck or over performing(could be bursts of playing champions you are better at) you can spike into silver 2 for a short time. And similar downaward spikes to silver 4. So it makes sense that you struggle in promos to silver 2 since you have to play better than you normally do or hope for luck to carry you.

MrWasjigOct 19, 20151 votes

Well thank you for a rundown of my Ranked career this season. But I rebuttal with the following. I neither like promo series, nor do I think they're fair. And for your information I've reached Silver 2 two times previously this season. The first time I was demoted I can't remember why but the second I distinctly remember was due to an ISP issue when I was at 0 LP. I lost connection to the game and couldn't reconnect to even the client until after the match had already finished. After that I went on a serious tilt and ended up back in 4. I have the potential to reach higher ranks. But I'm not claiming I'm perfect or deserve challenjour.

But! I still hate the entire concept of promotional series because they're unfair, stressful and a completely miserable part of the entire ranked experience that I would happily see buried 6 feet under. I'm not blaming them solely for my inability to climb mind you.

Good day Sir

SmokedAlmondsOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well thank you for a rundown of my Ranked career this season. But I rebuttal with the following. I neither like promo series, nor do I think they're fair. And for your information I've reached Silver 2 two times previously this season. The first time I was demoted I can't remember why but the second I distinctly remember was due to an ISP issue when I was at 0 LP. I lost connection to the game and couldn't reconnect to even the client until after the match had already finished. After that I went on a serious tilt and ended up back in 4. I have the potential to reach higher ranks. But I'm not claiming I'm perfect or deserve challenjour.

But! I still hate the entire concept of promotional series because they're unfair, stressful and a completely miserable part of the entire ranked experience that I would happily see buried 6 feet under. I'm not blaming them solely for my inability to climb mind you.

Good day Sir

Demotions aren't the result of losing 1 game. They are the result of your MMR falling to low. If we had the old pure elo system you would have just been demoted several losses ago since you were already playing in that lower division and still losing. That loss from the dc or w/e was just the final straw.

I saw that you made it to silver 2 twice for very short periods of time. It also looks like you dropped to silver 4 3 times. No way to see if you actually officially got demoted but you dropped into silver 4 MMR 3 times or very very close to silver 4, again for short periods. My point is that you struggle with promos, not because they are somehow unfair, but because you are where you belong, silver 3. Your ranked history is basically a perfect example of someone getting to where they belong. You start low silver like everyone, you drop to bronze for a short time then quickly climb to silver 3 where you spent most of your games with extremely short stints in the bottom of silver 2 and the top of silver 4.

It is completely understandable that you don't like promos, they are added pressure. I wouldn't say I love them, I'm just indifferent because they don't mater that much. I don't see how you can call them unfair though. Everyone has to go through them.

MrWasjigOct 19, 20151 votes

I don't see how you can call them unfair though

Well it's quite easy. Watch. They're unfair and I hate them.

Bam! Easy :D

Also I can't find any stats on you...like at all. How the hell do you know everything about me with nothing to find on yourself?

KazaashiOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well it's quite easy. Watch. They're unfair and I hate them.

Bam! Easy :D

You can say that, but it doesn't make it true, valid, or acceptable.

Also I can't find any stats on you...like at all. How the hell do you know everything about me with nothing to find on yourself?

http://www.op.gg/ - Lots of stats.

I wouldn't suggest digging up peoples Ranked stats and throwing it back at them as a way to discredit their suggestions/opinions. No one cares about that, as they are coming here to help you.

MrWasjigOct 20, 20151 votes

You can say that, but it doesn't make it true, valid, or acceptable.

That's not stopped me thus far. It's my opinion and if you don't like it then that's YOUR opinion.

I wouldn't suggest digging up peoples Ranked stats and throwing it back at them as a way to discredit their suggestions/opinions. No one cares about that, as they are coming here to help you.

You're assuming I'm one of the assholes who does that. I'm not. Personally I wish people who did that would choke on their own upraised bellends.

SmokedAlmondsOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well it's quite easy. Watch. They're unfair and I hate them.

Bam! Easy :D

Also I can't find any stats on you...like at all. How the hell do you know everything about me with nothing to find on yourself?

Maybe I am a wizzard!?

This is my smurf which I only use for aram. I don't play much ranked really. Last two seasons I only played enough to get gold + like two weekends a year me and my friend are like "lets get plat" push for a couple days usually ending around gold 3 and then we just lose interest.

Basically everything I commented on was from your lolking score graph.

What I was saying is what do you think is unfair about them? Everyone has to do them so they are by definition fair. Like I said, the dislike is understandable, but they aren't unfair.

MrWasjigOct 20, 20151 votes

At least you only smurf on ARAM and don't play in Low ELO Ranked. Now that IS something I can blame for a loss other than myself. I shouldn't have to explain why.

Troll for TrumpOct 19, 20151 votes

Pretty much everyone hates promos; Way too easy to get demoted than promoted. Riot is fixing it.

But please, stop with the "You belong in the rank you are in" mentality. It's wrong.

SmokedAlmondsOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Pretty much everyone hates promos; Way too easy to get demoted than promoted. Riot is fixing it.

But please, stop with the "You belong in the rank you are in" mentality. It's wrong.

You are right that a lot of people hate promos. That really doesn't even have much to do with people being where they belong. If you have some information to dispute that then I would love to see it.

If you look at the graph of this guys progress you can see it in action perfectly. He steadily climbs to a rank(silver 3 in this case). When he rises up much higher he quickly starts losing and falls back down. When he drops down below he quickly climbs right back up.

This happens because when he climbs that little bit everyone in his games get better and hes less able to compete and when he drops a little everyone gets worse and he then has an advantage.

Troll for TrumpOct 20, 20151 votes

Do you have proof that the mentality is right? And where did you get this graph from?

If a lot of people hate promos, that usually means something. Like, maybe it's BAD.

SmokedAlmondsOct 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Do you have proof that the mentality is right? And where did you get this graph from?

Its not really a mentality, its an understanding of how MMR works. But yes, there is a lot of evidence to support it being right.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/52726865

The graph is at the bottom right "lolking score". Expand it.

There is a dip at the very start which I dont think is necisiarily relivant to anything. Maybe he did bad or got unlucky in placements or just took a bit to get comfortable in ranked. Then you see a steady climb to about silver 3 rank at april 13th. THen from there he just bounces up and down right around there. Dropping down 3 times and quickly climbing right back up to silver 3. I don't know if he would have actually been demoted at any of those 3 downward spikes because it takes quit a bit to be officially demoted but definitely drops down to the top part of silver 4 but importantly, quickly climbs right back to silver 3. Similarly the 2 upward spikes up just barely into silver 2. And most importantly quickly drops right back down to silver 3.

So what I see is his skill is near the center of silver 3. MMR works by every time you win your MMR goes up a little. With this slightly higher MMR you get slightly higher MMR opponents and team mates. So if you do not improve a the game your next game is going to be harder because your MMR improved and all the players in your games improved, but you did not. If you lose your MMR goes down a little, your opponents and team get a little worse and if you did not get worse(which usually doesn't happen) then your next game will be a little easier. Now with those spikes in his graph, he either was playing above/below his normal ability or they are little luck streaks(yes that's a thing). But as you can see he quickly trends back towards the middle of silver 3 every time, because thats where his skill level is.

You trend towards where your skill level is because the games getting a little easier or a little harder are really having a slightly higher or lower chance to win. and over many games that is reflected in your win rate. So lets say 1300 is his skill level so that means at 1300 he has a 50% chance to win games. As he either plays better than normal or team mates pick up a little extra slack and gets wins that push him above 1300 that 50% chance goes down a little so maybe he lucks in to 3 wins pushing him to 1350 he only has a ~49% chance to win so he loses extra games dropping back down.

If you could look at his win rate from that april 13th peak at 1305 to the current 1331 It would be almost exactly 50%.

Now not everyone's is going to look exactly like this since not everyone is consistent which this guy seems to be and mostly not only plays 1 role but 1 champion(thresh). (MrWasjig do you consider yourself to be a consistent player?)For a lot of players you would probably see a lot more swings because their skill is different with different champions so their champion choice directly effects their chances to win.

I will say his play style of mostly only playing thresh actually makes his promos harder because he plays what is probably his best champion every game so his rank is not just his average skill but is heavily weighted towards his skill with that one champ. Which actually makes it much more accurate. But when you are playing your best at all times you don't leave any room to push harder. So if he played other champions that he was worse with more than his overall rank would be a little lower but when he got to promos he could specifically choose thresh, his best, to give him a little boost. But since he almost always plays his best he has no room to pull that ace out.

If a lot of people hate promos, that usually means something. Like, maybe it's BAD.

None of what I said speaks to whether or not someone likes promos, you are right there. A lot of people do hate promos. But that is not because they hold people back. Its just because they dislike them. People not liking them does matter though. Like most of how ranks are displayed it is superficial to make people feel better. Otherwise there would be no tiers, divisions, hidden MMR ect. The best player would be ranked number 1 and people would just be w/e random insignificant number. Open up your profile "you are rank 931,309". But when your rank is 900,000 seeing it go to 899,999 doesn't really feel like anything. So we have tiers and all kinds of fancy ways to display it to make people feel better. That could include removing promos eventual, I have heard they are changing some of that but I don't know what specifically. But removing promos isn't going to change anything about peoples ranks, its just going to make them feel better.

Troll for TrumpOct 20, 20151 votes

I don't think Lolking SCore=rank. Not sure if Im wrong or right, but I believe it is something akin to elo/mmr. I feel that the graphs are off somewhat. It said I had had silver MMR when I got to gold. I then had a lose streak of 2/3 games, and decided to sit the rest of the season out. But I think it does show general w/l ratio. If you play a lot (or a good sum or ranked games), "na.op.gg" can show you your mmr and compare it to the average of people in your league. I feel like this guy is subjected a lot more to the stuff described in elo hell. The random spikes and drops indicate losing and winning streaks of large proportions. He would be one of those people with a "?" and a high amount of uncertainty to whether he should be in said rank or not.

"But that is not because they hold people back. " Posts: OMOG ELOHELL BRONEZ 5 GKNADKlKNGKLFNLKGNSFKLNLKHNF PROMOS TROLL

Tl;dr posts have something like "I get to 100 lp" then trolls/afks/feeders etc in promos and I get to __ rank and it's stupid. It takes a long time, and I don't have infinite time, and it is just wayy too grindy. Apparantly it takes longer in upper levels.

""hat could include removing promos eventual, I have heard they are changing some of that but I don't know what specifically. But removing promos isn't going to change anything about peoples ranks, its just going to make them feel better." Yeah Riot says they are removing the promo system. But yeah people play to make themselves feel better and brag about it to other people. Or to put down others.

ChaosReignsDownOct 19, 20151 votes

I really wish the ranked system went off your personal performance. They give you a "personal" grade (S+,S-, etc). If I get an S+ it means I did my job.. ADC gets a D or whatever, why should I lose LP/promo? Just my thoughts.. I have only played like 50ish ranked games and I am chillin in sV where my first 10 games put me. Either way. Good Luck man!!

LoL DetectiveOct 19, 20151 votes

YES, i dont understand why i lose LP in a 4v5 game because someone went afk or if i get 15 kills and 15 asst but the teemo jg is just feeding and we canr win?

ChaosReignsDownOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

YES, i dont understand why i lose LP in a 4v5 game because someone went afk or if i get 15 kills and 15 asst but the teemo jg is just feeding and we canr win?

Yeah.. even just playing the 50ish games I have played I see the toxic afkers that ruin your rank, but I hope riot does fix it.

MrWasjigOct 20, 20151 votes

Removing (or at the least reducing) LP loss when it's a 4v5 is something I've find myself complaining about a lot this season. AFKs may not happen every game but when they do happen it is the absolute worst experience and totally unfair on top of that.

Thing is whenever I HAVE complained about it (not just a QQ thread but an actual explanation of why it's unfair etc etc) people have just outright said that it's inconsequential. I can understand that angle but I still dispute it.

SmokedAlmondsOct 20, 20151 votes

Lolking score roughly translates to your MMR. but not exactly. But since I am mostly looking at trends and changes its effective. It is basically the same thing as op.gg's MMR estimate.

The closer you are to low silver the more random crap you are going to encounter because that is where unranked players start. That means smurfs who are way better than silver and new players who are worse but just haven't played enough games to rise and fall. I can't really comment on what caused the streaks since I didn't see the games but the important part is that right after the streaks(caused by hell or not), both up and down, he quickly goes right back to silver 3. Because that is the skill level he is playing at. It would probably be a much better experience if those spikes didn't happen, no matter what caused them. But regardless his rank ends up the same.

None of this has anything to do with promos though, just MMR in general.

Like I said, I have no issue with someone not liking promos and wanting them removed for that reason. I'm not even arguing that they shouldn't be removed. But people who complain about getting held back by them are just using it as an excuse for their progression not being what they want it to be. Because if its promos fault, then it isn't their fault. They are just a scapegoat.

MrWasjigOct 20, 20151 votes

Who says I'm using the promo system as a scapegoat? There seems to be the assumption that whenever someone complains about something they're blaming it for their shortcomings.

SmokedAlmondsOct 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Who says I'm using the promo system as a scapegoat? There seems to be the assumption that whenever someone complains about something they're blaming it for their shortcomings.

I meant as a generality not necessarily you specifically.

{quoted}

Removing (or at the least reducing) LP loss when it's a 4v5 is something I've find myself complaining about a lot this season. AFKs may not happen every game but when they do happen it is the absolute worst experience and totally unfair on top of that.

Thing is whenever I HAVE complained about it (not just a QQ thread but an actual explanation of why it's unfair etc etc) people have just outright said that it's inconsequential. I can understand that angle but I still dispute it.

The thing is, they are inconsequential. You can see that clearly in the graph of your progress. Every time you climb to the upper part of silver 3/lower part of silver 2 you immediately fall back to the middle of silver 3 because you cannot compete at that level so you start to lose more. AFKs and smurfs certainly cause losses that you don't deserve, but they happen on both teams which helps balance it. I dont know the percentage of your games that would have to be influenced by that stuff to really meaningfully change your rank but its high. Because every loss that is due to an AFK or smurf or w/e thing is going to increase your chances of winning successive games.

The 2 things Id like to see with AFKs are a way to leave after the first person AFKs. And games where someone never connects by ~5 minutes to just end and be thrown out. Maybe for those give loss prevented except for the person who didn't connect.

Also I apologize if it seems like I am attacking you with your rank, that is not my intention at all. If silver were replaced with bronze, gold, plat, diamond my comments would have been the same.

MrWasjigOct 21, 20151 votes

A system similar to what Dota 2 uses would be greatly welcomed I must say. Basically what you described, allow players to leave if someone AFKs after 5 minutes with no penalty. Because losing LP for an AFK is just totally unfair regardless of how infrequently it happens.

Sythriel DrakenOct 20, 20151 votes

that's ok. mods removed a post of mine about how much ranked sucks right now due to scripters, people running bot of legends to see the map, do their combos,etc.

I'm honestly upset that riot claims to not support this type of behavior, yet does nothing to these people. And I too have done my silver 5 to 4 promos about 5 times now due to people being AFK, people who have bought an MMR boost on the other team, etc.