"If you ganked top I wouldn't be 1-7"

Kikirino·Jul 30, 2015·46 votes·4,441 views

People like this make me fucking hate jungling. I am not going to gank a losing lane. Instead I will get my other lanes snowballing and keep pressure elsewhere. It is not your jungler's job to win your lane. It is your job to not completely lose your lane and when your entire team says to stop trying to 1v1 when you are 1-3 then you should probably listen. Blaming your jungler only tells the team that you will not get any better and are a detriment to the team. By the time you are 1-7 you have completely demoralized the team with, not only your score, but your constant blaming of someone else for you not heeding any of the advice given to you like stop dueling or just farm under tower.

77 Comments

NarasimhaJul 30, 201515 votes

Ganking is more important than you realize. When someone is down by a lot, they're not just 'demoralizing the team' as you put it, but also themselves. They're not going to listen to reason, they're just too worked up most times. It becomes a snowball effect, if you will. You need to gank for them, if only to get them out of that rut.

Personal example here, I was Jayce, laning against a Rengar. By about 15 minutes in, I was 0/4. I was on full tilt. I knew it, but I couldn't stop it. Even bot was beginning to grumble, and it kept getting me worked up. Then my jungler, WW, came up and ganked. Even gave me the kill. And that was all I needed. Ended the game 11/7, with a solid victory to boot. All because one gank was enough to calm me down and get me back on track.

rinsujoJul 30, 20153 votes

That's a risky proposition for us though. If you're on tilt, and we don't manage to get the gank, the morale of the team is shot. It's good that it worked that time, but personally, if that Rengar is warding, I'd be scared to try ganking on him, especially as WW who doesn't have any reliable escape.

What if that gank hadn't gone right? What if that gank hadn't been enough to get you off tilt? What if it did work, but then Rengar came back and got you again? As a jungler who doesn't know you, that's a lot of "What if's" and honestly, I wouldn't have been comfortable enough to gank for you.

NarasimhaJul 30, 20156 votes

True, but the world is made up off "What if's?" Sometimes, you've just got to roll the dice and hope for the best :P

rinsujoJul 30, 20152 votes

Also true. And I have had games where a midlaner on tilt managed to get off tilt after I gave him blue. But I've had more games where the what if's bit my ass. Hence, I tend to play pretty defensively.

FT5 WargazmJul 30, 201514 votes

i feel as if that if you ganked his lane once and it went bad then you shouldnt go there, but when he's 1-3 u can still gank.

layritJul 30, 20159 votes

It is kinda also your fault. You COULD gank (or at least pressure) his lane before he gets rekt in a highly unfavorable matchup (like Garen vs Ryze where as Ryze hits lvl3 Garen just goes killing Scuttle Crab or Wolves until the minions are under his tower). Your decision NOT to attempt a gank on that lane caused the opponent to play more aggressively thus forcing the mistakes from your teammate and snowballing the lane (and often the game). Btw there are certain matchups where even farming under your tower is not safe (most matchups against Fizz).

UltimatesplashJul 30, 20156 votes

What happens to me is that i play top, i ward to look for ganks from the enemy jung, i ask for a gank to push me ahead and the jungler ignores me and tries to gank mid when the enemy is under the tower. I get ganked and kill, now im behind. I ask for another gank, he goes bot to gank when there's no need, i get towerdived 2v1 and then its a 4v5 cuz i cannot recover. Then peopple tell me to stop feeding when im actually playing defensively and not pushing at all and still have no help from mid/jung.

That what happens when i lose top.

Winning position, i get a kill or two, i ward river, jung comes from my tower bush, ganks me, i curse myself for not warding there as well.

rinsujoJul 30, 20152 votes

It's not the junglers job to get you ahead though, if your teammate is playing someone who can snowball harder, the jungler probably wants to snowball them as quick as they can. Now, if that jungler is trying to gank an enemy under their own tower, either he's a pro who knows what he can get away with (doubt it) or more likely, is not the greatest jungler.

But if the enemy jungle is camping you top, farm under tower as safe as you can, and then remind your team to use the advantage. That's the important part right there. If you're getting camped, that's less pressure their jungle is putting on your other lanes. Safely bully him as much as you can, and then tell mid to roam bot, tell jungle to shove mid, tell bot to secure every last dragon.

Again, part of this is teamwork, which... isn't always easy. But if you're getting caught in the first couple ganks, you need to be more careful. Regardless of who you're playing, getting caught is your fault - I know you probably know this, and I know it's shitty to hear, but I'm not trying to put you down - I'm a jungle main, and when I'm forced to go top, I get wrecked by the laner because I can't pressure or CS for shit. But I can see ganks coming a mile away, and they rarely catch me. If you're having trouble against a jungler, play that jungler for a bit. Try jungling. It gives you so much more knowledge about lane pressure and map awareness that I highly recommend it. Since you're a 20, it's going to be hard. Start in bot games. Play WW. Just get a feel for how jungling works, and I promise, ganks will start to hurt less.

Troll for TrumpJul 30, 20153 votes

Some champs can't just farm under tower. Not everything is nasus. Darius Needs his kills for example otherwise hell be useless altegame. He doesn't scale off cs super well, and falls off late. If Dar asks you to gank you should probably gank, And why is riot reworking Darius, buffing fiora and teemo, while ignoring WW Taric Urgot Poppy and YOrick..

The Crimson KingJul 30, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Some champs can't just farm under tower. Not everything is nasus. Needs his kills for example otherwise hell be useless altegame. He doesn't scale off cs super well, and falls off late. If Dar asks you to gank you should probably gank, And why is riot reworking Darius, buffing fiora and teemo, while ignoring WW Taric Urgot Poppy and YOrick..

Sighs man. Do you know how wrong this statement is? This is why the climb out of silver is torturous. Every champ can farm under tower, you just need to know your damage, and how much damage the tower is doing to minions. Also, the fact that you just said "he doesn't scale off cs super well" makes me cringe, and ashamed to be in Silver currently. Gold is gold. It doesn't matter if it comes from a kill or from a minion. EVERYONE scales off CS...it's gold for crying out loud, and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Troll for TrumpJul 30, 20154 votes

First off you are being an asshole. So you should really fix the attitude if you want to get out of silver. Yes every champ can farm under tower but Darius is a bully, he needs early game kills. "he doesn't scale off cs super well" makes me cringe, and ashamed to be in Silver currently. Read.What.I.Wrote." scale off cs super well" " scale off cs super well" " scale off cs super well" He doesn't scale off it like a god like a fiora riven or nasus. Everyone scales off gold. No duh you need it to get items? Some just do not get huge off it as hard. Darius's kit supports getting kills more than gold. You should only need to farm under the tower against a teemo part-time and maybe yorick at some point.

The Crimson KingJul 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

First off you are being an asshole. So you should really fix the attitude if you want to get out of silver. Yes every champ can farm under tower but Darius is a bully, he needs early game kills. "he doesn't scale off cs super well" makes me cringe, and ashamed to be in Silver currently. Read.What.I.Wrote." scale off cs super well" " scale off cs super well" " scale off cs super well" He doesn't scale off it like a god like a fiora riven or nasus. Everyone scales off gold. No duh you need it to get items? Some just do not get huge off it as hard. Darius's kit supports getting kills more than gold. You should only need to farm under the tower against a teemo part-time and maybe yorick at some point.

You have no clue what you are even talking about. I know I'll get out of silver since I have every single seaon except for S1....but like I said, it's players like you who think you know what you are talking about, but in reality have no clue, that make the climb slow.

"Darius's kit supports getting kills more than gold" is just such a poor mentality. I know I'm not the greatest, but at least I understand the basic gameplay. Your statement doesn't even make sense.

Chaotic SageJul 30, 20151 votes

To comment on the second part of what you said, they're not ignoring any of them, they have reworks slated for each one. Some of said reworks are even quite close to being finished according to I believe Meddler actually whereas some just need a few numbers and adjustments. Just be sure that Riot isn't ignoring them just because they aren't posting or shipping them to the PBE yet.

Troll for TrumpJul 30, 20152 votes

He said poopy's rework was almost done a year ago kappa

Chaotic SageJul 30, 20151 votes

So what, more recently he said that she had the numbers locked and everything. Done can mean anything from in game model to ability set to actually moving to the PBE. The most recent post I saw about Poppy I saw was that they were getting ready to ship her over to PBE reasonably soon.

Troll for TrumpJul 30, 20152 votes

Riot soon tm

DrinkMoreWhiskeyJul 30, 20152 votes

pushes top lanes trying to bully dies to every gank "OMG my jungler sucks"

every Darius ever

Troll for TrumpJul 31, 20151 votes

Every yorick ever.

dramatic bananaJul 31, 20151 votes

Every top ever.

UltimatesplashJul 30, 20151 votes

Thank you for the tips. I play around with a bunch of different roles. top, adc, jung, mid, and im mediocre at best with them. I tend not to be able to read when a gank is happening or is goinng to occur soon and i get rekt cuz of it. When i jung, im pretty shitty at actually doing a good gank. Either i get killed cuz of doing something stupid or sometimes the laner just leaves me ouut to dry or, and this is probably the real reason, i forgot to ping.

There's hella stuff i need to learn, but i try to be balanced at playing all roles (except sup, which i really need to) just in case i don't get the role i wish to play.

Anyways, I thank you once again for the tips and for not being a toxic person telling me I suck (cuz i know lol) but actually providing advice.

rinsujoJul 31, 20151 votes

Sure man, we were all new once. Probably the only way I got as good as i did was reading a bunch of general game guides on solomid.net. Tapobu wrote a few about the psychology and strategy of league which I really enjoyed, and reading guides from some of the pros helped a lot too - theoddone has some jungle guides that got me from crappy to decent pretty quick.

And hey, mediocre at a lot of roles is better than "mid or feed" any day of the week. That attitude of "I need to learn" is a great one to have and will get you a lot farther than blaming your team. Good luck, have fun!

dramatic bananaJul 30, 20155 votes

I hate it when I'm playing top or mid, the enemy is pushing on me, but the jungle decides to gank our completely pushed up 17/2 bot lane.

DracidJul 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I hate it when I'm playing top or mid, the enemy is pushing on me, but the jungle decides to gank our completely pushed up 17/2 bot lane.

its not so much about feeding them at this point obviously, its about keeping the enemy down. This way the enemy jungler cant come in and get them back in the game. You just camp the lane of someone you think has the best chance of winning you the game thats all while pretty much keeping their lane opponent next to useless.

Your Graves on your team is 10/2/2 with 200 CS while the enemy Ezreal lets say is 1/6/1 with 110 CS. With the way you say it, you would ignore that lane and go focus on others. Meanwhile the enemy jungler starts focusing that lane, and eventually the ezreal is caught back up or close to it while you only evened out or got another lane slightly ahead. If you just kept your attention bot and kept the ezreal down and kept the Graves up, the game would essentially be a 5v4 where as if you did it the other way, it would be a 5v5 again.

People need to realize the jungler can't gank every lane in every game. It's just not efficient.

Trias000Jul 30, 20151 votes

{quoted} Meanwhile the enemy jungler starts focusing that lane

Which is his mistake, isn't it? The whole topic is about how ganking losing lanes is pointless. So if the enemy does that, we should be fine with that, shouldn't we?

dramatic bananaJul 31, 20151 votes

But what I'm saying is that the jungler has the chance to help me win my lane because I've only died once or twice, and I'm same level, but he decided to gank a lane that is 3 levels ahead and can take ganks well because they have someone like Morgana or Alistar.

LoxodonPunisherJul 31, 20151 votes

The game wouldnt be a 5v4 if your losing lane continues to lose. It would be a 4v4, with the losing lane gaining just as much steam as your winning lane.

For example, I lost my lane HELLA HARD to a Trynd top, and, my jungler failed to help at all, in any way. None of my teammates helped me top. They said it was pointless. You know what happened? Tryndamere single-handedly won the game because his lane was handed to him on a silver platter. He split pushed without resistance.

Ganking is something that should never, ever, be ignored.

Slamurai JackJul 30, 20155 votes

Sometimes you need to gank a lane just to get them to back up a little bit, even if it doesn't result in a kill. I lose tons of lanes because my enemy laner pushes like a madman or plays so insanely aggressively that it's clear he isn't even a little bit concerned with getting ganked. Your laners are going to lose their lanes and most likely die in those situations due to the slow advantage that the enemy accumulates over time by playing like this. This is especially true in top lane. If you let someone like Vladimir Teemo Fiora Jayce Mordekaiser push for the entire laning phase, they are going to win their lane by a signficant margin if they're remotely competent.

ChaosThiefJul 30, 20153 votes

There are times when you are not LeeSin or Elise and can gank whenever you please.

There are also times when you stop trying to fight a Quinn that's 5 kills over you Rengar, then pushing the lane, then taking the jungler (that was me) 's camps and the only way that he would stop was to "gank top more"

It's infuriating that people only thing junglers are gank bots. Sometimes the jungle is safer than lane, damn it.

KilljoyXJul 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

People like this make me fucking hate jungling. I am not going to gank a losing lane. Instead I will get my other lanes snowballing and keep pressure elsewhere. It is not your jungler's job to win your lane. It is your job to not completely lose your lane and when your entire team says to stop trying to 1v1 when you are 1-3 then you should probably listen. Blaming your jungler only tells the team that you will not get any better and are a detriment to the team. By the time you are 1-7 you have completely demoralized the team with, not only your score, but your constant blaming of someone else for you not heeding any of the advice given to you like stop dueling or just farm under tower.

As a jungle main you have to make a choice at 3 minutes. Gank early to tip top lane or just pray the other jungler doesn't Top is balanced on a razors edge. If one gets a lead there the lane is over.

If they get ganked and are 0-1 the lane is straight up over unless they are on a hard counter because top is largely melee.

Other lanes are largely ranged and can lose gracefully if they are good. That is simply not the case with top lane. Either gank early or assume the lane will likely lose.

Kuroi86Jul 30, 20153 votes

Only thing that has ever bothered me with Junglers is if I'm already winning lane and they come trying to get in on a kill only to die to the enemy because they don't ping me when they are going in. I'm a 3/0/0 Renekton why aren't you letting me initiate the fight instead of charging in with a Udyr that's two levels behind?

Edit: Another thing to consider is that ganks aren't just about kills, it's about exuding pressure. It's about making the enemy jumpy about the possibility of you charging into lane after them. I've had jungle Nidalee that was always freaking out the enemy by hanging back in the bushes and chucking a spear or two before moving to another lane. The enemy never knew when they would have to be on the look out for a long range spear aimed right for them. It helped relieve a lot of pressure on the lanes.

steampigJul 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Only thing that has ever bothered me with Junglers is if I'm already winning lane and they come trying to get in on a kill only to die to the enemy because they don't ping me when they are going in. I'm a 3/0/0 why aren't you letting me initiate the fight instead of charging in with a that's two levels behind?

Edit: Another thing to consider is that ganks aren't just about kills, it's about exuding pressure. It's about making the enemy jumpy about the possibility of you charging into lane after them. I've had jungle that was always freaking out the enemy by hanging back in the bushes and chucking a spear or two before moving to another lane. The enemy never knew when they would have to be on the look out for a long range spear aimed right for them. It helped relieve a lot of pressure on the lanes.

I like this. When I jungle, if I'm not confident about a gank, I'll just walk through lane and poke the enemy before disappearing again. Let them know I might be there waiting. If they get really jumpy, they might even burn a flash for no reason, and then I can circle around and gank for real.

Rabid HuskyJul 31, 20151 votes

best strat all post good show good show

steampigJul 30, 20153 votes

You also shouldn't ask your jungler to gank during his first clear. If you're losing already, then maybe you need to go back to AI games for a bit. And please, be aware of the capabilities of the jungler. Some can gank well pre-6, others need that level 6 bump to pull off a gank. If one of the latter, don't start raging about no ganks before 7 minutes or so. You should at least be able to not get killed in the first 10 minutes.

dramatic bananaJul 31, 20153 votes

I absolutely hate it when I'm 3/0 and need a gank, but the jungler ignored me because I'm, "fed and I don't need help'', then he ganks 2/3 bot lane.

A Miss FortuneJul 30, 20152 votes

Me and my friend played a game (Ranked) and he chose Diana Jungle which is his main currently. Our Gnar fed multiple kills to Riven, and after that continued to try to 1v1 Riven, with no vision, only for Elise to come and gank him and get Riven more kills. Our Vladimir simply died to their Malzahar for no reason. Both of them were very poor players and simply blamed the blame game on our Jungler. Everything was our Junglers fought no matter what. Gnar overextended and got ganked/killed "gg this diana so useless".

He ended the game going 7-2 with our mid laner going 1-4.

I really hate how people play the blame game, I don't think It encourages anyone to improve and can lose an entire game by demoralizing your team. By blaming people you don't get better. Personally I try to think back on any mistakes/errors I made and fix them. If I die I think "Why did I die, what can I do to get better and prevent this.". It's understandable that everyone has a bad day, but It's still not an excuse.

Captainn GinyuJul 30, 20152 votes

"im not going to gank a losing lane" then why would you gank a winning lane? thats why you lose you help people who needd it when you see them getting stomped but if you dont then taht loss is on you as well

SpecterVonBarenJul 30, 20152 votes

I feel completely justified in questioning why my jungler hasn't ganked the enemy right in front of my turret for three minutes while the enemy team has two man ganked me twice.

The TrentJul 31, 20152 votes

I love how the jungler is aloud to blame me for doing bad if I get camped, but im not allowed to say a thing like, Do dragon the enemy jungler is top its better than doing red buff, without getting hate like, WOW U PROB WANT ME TO CAMP U TOO STFU I CANT BE IN ALL 3 LANES AT ONCE. Like for real junglers are like those fake feminists who just complain about everything that's unfair and be annoying instead of making a difference.

KeevalroyJul 31, 20152 votes

Or you go devourer and don't gank at all. (If you do that, you deserve every ounce of hate your laners give you for neglecting them while the enemy jungler is all over the place)

s LessThanThreeJul 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Or you go devourer and don't gank at all. (If you do that, you deserve every ounce of hate your laners give you for neglecting them while the enemy jungler is all over the place)

Go devourer vi. Gank early game, farm half the rest of the time, secure drags. Get 30 stacks 17 minutes GG.

Hard PenetratorJul 31, 20152 votes

It's complicated. Generally if your top is in losing matchup the earlier you gank the easier it will be. If its skill matchup side that will get ganked first will probably get zoned and die in another couple minutes unless he will buckle up and buy some shitty def items just to be able to survive and get some xp for a price of being utterly worthless till he gets his core items.

There are times where your top just need some help, burning enemy summoners, blowing their ult and he will be able to hold or even put some more pressure. If you leave them everytime just because they are little behind or enemy is able to blow him up its generally better to gank top WITH your mid for a quick kill. Not only you risk less but its easier to take tower right after.

And of course there are times where you just have to leave one lane for sharks, it sucks but at least tell him you have nothing to do there and you have 0 chances of killing him without dying first. At best you wait till enemy take turret and will be force to farm on your side of the map then 3 or 4 man him.

Vistha KaiJul 30, 20151 votes

Well, if you ganked top the dude would maybe end up being 7/1 instead of 1/7, but you're so full of yourself that you will never know.

KikirinoJul 31, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=TkooTgPO,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2015-07-30T23:34:35.913+0000)

Well, if you ganked top the dude would maybe end up being 7/1 instead of 1/7, but you're so full of yourself that you will never know.

I was busy getting mid and myself fed and securing dragon but please keep trying to berate me. By the time top was 1-3 I was 3-0-2 and mid was 2-0-2. We were ahead but he continued to duel instead of play safe. His bad score is on him. His decision making skills are horrendous and that is not the kind of player you want to be ganking.

Rabid HuskyJul 31, 20152 votes

so if your 3-0 and hes 1-3 why not go help before he gets to 1-5+? worse comes to it you could push his opponent back and grab tower best case you make him 2-3 and still grab tower, and even if you say your a tank or something its damage to tower anything helps in that situation. as for your whole motto of dont gank the failing lane just whats the thinking? if mids 2-0 without you and bot lanes 2-1 also without you while tops 1-3 why help the thriving lanes and why not help the failing one? imagine your failing lane you cant even farm under tower hes that guy who dives you grabs a kill and walks out without any worry a jungle gank would be preeeeettty nice wouldn't it but no the jungler thought the 8-0 bot lane needed help it would suck wouldn't it.

Occams RaiserJul 31, 20151 votes

it seems like all the divs are the same. All the same complaints come from any tier you ask. I hear the same shit in bronze. I see the same brain dead decision making that I see when I spectate a high rank match. Its like everything cam be broken down into pro level play, about to be pro, then everyone else.

There are trolls in every div and tier. Whats the point?

TwoDJul 31, 20151 votes

afk farming undertower might look good but isn't the best thing to do, you're also just being a big idiot by letting an enemy free farm

PlaguedWingsJul 31, 20151 votes

If you can help them, at the phase of 1-3 and still apply good jungle pressure on the map, then do so. If, by some chance, because it can happen that they are 1-7 by like, 20 minutes. Then, no fuck them. Jungling is so 50/50 on what lane to gank early game, because even if you burn a summoners, that could go along way with your lane and help them snowball. If they're saying this shit while pushing and over extending, then fuck them. There's two sides of this, and I've been on both sides

EnchantéJul 31, 20151 votes

"oh no he starts to dive me i cant do this anymore guys"

^ when this happens you know your whole team is fucked with the enemy top

s LessThanThreeJul 31, 20151 votes

If the enemy is a snowball toplaner and you're refusing to gank then the enemy toplaner is gonna carry and it's probably going to be your fault tbh because your teams toplaner most likely got ganked to get to their bad score or is countered in lane and you chose to ignore a serious issue whereas even if the enemy is 4-1 you can probably 2v1 them if you play it right and get shutdown gold and put your top back into the game gold and XP wise.