Are you really going to bitch after all those times when you were last pick and got forced into your absolute worst role? Fucking forbid you are guaranteed to get a role you pick. 'Nope. I want something and it is not good enough until I get it.' It is very simple and reasonable to think the average player can handle two roles.
The Candylandman12 votesPeople bitch about everything, honestly if you can't play at least 3 roles outta 5 you have no business playing competitive rank it's simple as that. Go play normals till you know how to play every role then come back to ranked.
Normals is for fun and practice Ranked if for people who should know the game well enough to play a role they get put in.
End of story
Jari15 votesAnd there's something else some people miss too.
As much as the assholes try to make it seem, you do NOT have to be perfect in every role. Everyone is best somewhere and weak somewhere. The point of this is that it makes the one trick pony's have to learn a second role, which honestly can still benefit them in a way. The best way to defeat your enemy is to understand them, so having a basic knowledge on every role is more benefiting than some realize.
IWasSnow3 votesYou don't have to be good in all the rolls, but knowing how to play other rolls will give you an understanding of when and where your teammates will be, how much farther ahead or behind you they should be, and if you should be helping them or not.
SonicSalem3 votes[{quoted}](name=The Candylandman,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=E53lyzT4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-15T03:01:07.742+0000)
People bitch about everything, honestly if you can't play at least 3 roles outta 5 you have no business playing competitive rank it's simple as that. Go play normals till you know how to play every role then come back to ranked.
Normals is for fun and practice Ranked if for people who should know the game well enough to play a role they get put in.
End of story
The issue isn't knowing more than one role, I can easily play two roles very well (Mid & Support), & I can be a decent ADC & Top. Knowing how to play two roles it not the point, the whole point of TeamBuilder is that if I wanted to play Mid, & only wanted Mid, I could be guaranteed to get that role. Now I'm stuck playing blind pick where I have to risk on the speed of the chat load to get the one role I want, until blind pick too is taken away, & then I'm not sure what I'll be doing, probably a lot of ARAM.
Also I agree, normals are for fun, which is why I can't think of a reason why TeamBuilder was removed.
SpongebobIsLife2 votesI think the main reason, which someone had mentioned in an earlier thread, is that Riot wants a large pool of people playing on this new champ select in order to see what works and what doesn't work. The end of teambuilder as we know it is not set in stone.
Tyaldan3 votesSee i think the real problem here is that you would rather take a completely random chance to get your champ in aram than get around a 50% chance to play the role you want. And thats your problem, not anyone elses. I love the new system because i was only really GOOD at two roles, so id always ask for them. when i didnt get them, i didnt do well. im decent at a third and horrible at bot lane in general. This new system is great.
Kan Eh Dien2 votesThis ^ please this 1 000 000 times.
Libermann2 voteshonestly if you can't play at least 3 roles outta 5 you have no business playing competitive rank it's simple as that
...Except I'm not playing Ranked... I'm in normals. I just want to play my one champ in it's one role. That's it, simple as that.
In a ranked environment you are completely correct sir. The problem is that they shoved this into the casual environment as well, screwing us casuals over in the worst way possible.
High55 votesI love last pick. It lets me counter pick noobs. This is a disgusting post and truly indicative of how stupid, selfish and lazy this community is.
TouchpadExpert3 votesI love last pick. It lets me counter pick noobs. This is a disgusting post and truly indicative of how stupid, selfish and lazy this community is.
I like to be last pick too. I'm a support/fill main and I enjoy knowing what I am up against and picking a champion who can best counter the enemy team composition. Like if its a pick comp I will run Tahm Kench. If its a poke comp I will run Nami or Soraka. Or if its a keep away composition I will run Morgana. I'm competent enough that I am no one trick pony player and can adapt to situations accordingly.
A Liberal5 votesDisclaimer: I play fill and really don't give a rat's ass what I play.
THAT SAID, I think the main issue is that if someone wanted to play X in X lane, they could go into teambuilder and 100% be able to play that champion in X lane.
As far as I can tell, most of the arguments against this queue are not because of what it does to ranked, but because of how it is impacting normal queues.
SonicSalem5 votesAre you really going to bitch after all those times when you were last pick and got forced into your absolute worst role? Fucking forbid you are guaranteed to get a role you pick. 'Nope. I want something and it is not good enough until I get it.' It is very simple and reasonable to think the average player can handle two roles.
I see your point if you're referring to people who played Draft & lost that, however the people who played TeamBuilder did get the role that wanted, guaranteed.
Also, it's not a matter of being able to "handle two roles;" I can easily play two roles very well (Mid & Support), & I can be a decent ADC & Top. Knowing how to play two roles is not the point, the whole point of TeamBuilder is that if I wanted to play Mid, & only wanted Mid, I could be guaranteed to get that role. If I only have time for one match in a night & I just wanted to have fun & play the role I enjoy the most, I could be guaranteed to get that role in TeamBuilder, now I'm stuck playing blind pick where I have to risk on the speed of the chat load to get the one role I want, until blind pick too is taken away, & then I'm not sure what I'll be doing, probably a lot of ARAM.
HoboMcJoe4 votesYou're acting like everybody who doesn't want to play two roles is an entitled asshole. Some people like me are kind of one trick ponies or just don't enjoy other roles. I'm not going to be a bitch if I don't get my role in ranked, but I've always enjoyed team builder for being able to choose fully, even if it meant longer queue times.
Now that choice is gone, and the worst part is that when you get forced into your second role and feed, people flame you because they assume you making it your second choice means you are almost as proficient in it as your first role.
rito pls team builder
kunkudunk3 votesI think the idea is that if you don't understand any other role well enough to play it you probably shouldn't be playing ranked anyway, although I do have sympathy for those who want teambuilder back for normals. Honestly, people wanted a different ranked queue system to reduce fighting and to not be forced into their worst role or have a team of 5 guys who main mid (had a game with 4 mid mains on my team a few times, some were okay, others not so much) and the new system lets you pick your two best so you aren't stuck with your worst, seems like a fair trade to me. I do think it would be nice to have teambuilder back for normals since you usually don't care about queue time as much in normals since you won't be grinding out lp or anything like that.
HoboMcJoe3 votesI think the idea is that if you don't understand any other role well enough to play it you probably shouldn't be playing ranked anyway, although I do have sympathy for those who want teambuilder back for normals. Honestly, people wanted a different ranked queue system to reduce fighting and to not be forced into their worst role or have a team of 5 guys who main mid (had a game with 4 mid mains on my team a few times, some were okay, others not so much) and the new system lets you pick your two best so you aren't stuck with your worst, seems like a fair trade to me. I do think it would be nice to have teambuilder back for normals since you usually don't care about queue time as much in normals since you won't be grinding out lp or anything like that.
You're never going to be able to stop these people (I guess in a way I'm one of them) from playing ranked, and my point is that this new system only exacerbates the issue. Usually I just go a mid champion in whatever role I'm playing and most of the time it works out fine.
disregardable3 votesI got ADC in 73% of my games this season. They said ADC mains would expect to get their role around 50% of the time. ADC is not just a role, it's the class of champions I like to play.
If you like to play tanks, you can be a support, a jungle, or a top laner. If you like to play Marksmen, you can be an ADC. That's it. Whenever an ADC is consistently successful in another lane (Ezreal, Graves) they get nerfed. ADCs are not solo laners.
And it really doesn't help that I main the least role diverse champion in the game. Jinx doesn't go bot something like 0.2% of the time.
It's possible I won't see a real decrease in the amount of games I play that I enjoy, but from what they said I'm going to like playing League 20% less.
Kikirino12 votesOkay so what did you play the other 27% of the time? Unless you had adc 100% of the time then you are capable of playing a second role.
disregardable3 votesI lost or got carried. https://i.gyazo.com/90ce5d718d7d6b6c64fd40e4f3bde822.png
https://i.gyazo.com/19981bf6b774216191360d5dd321389b.png
And it's not about being "capable". It's about being able to play what I want. Which is Jinx.
Kikirino29 votesYou should not go into ranked expecting to play the one champion you like. That is not the point of ranked.
PDE5 Inhibitors1 votesIt is now with this stupid system. But it's people like this that really hurt ranked game play.
The Lexer9 votesYeah. It was real fun getting to diamond using one champion then getting fucked in the ass whenever it was banned or picked by somebody else
Left Hook Larry45 votesQuinn, Graves can both Jungle and top as well
Vayne can top
Kindred is a marksman and is a jungler
Varus can Mid
Ezreal can Mid
Stop bitching and git gud
disregardable1 voteshttps://i.gyazo.com/7a54c44ccd20a8ae50c654530a44f0dc.png Ez got nerfed.
https://i.gyazo.com/424b271f4d1ad45d0ebb30c923d87db6.png I don't think Varus got nerfed as much as he was never really good, the meta just favored him at one point.
https://i.gyazo.com/15d2e7290cc11b08715bffdaf77f7820.png Graves got nerfed to the point he isn't even played in other lanes consistently enough to collect data.
https://i.gyazo.com/511fb6a65b54190c96a38b5457a4c3ca.png Vayne also no data top and also got nerfed. Though as I actually have experience with this one, I will say it's bad. She's way too conditional. Most top laners' dashes outrange her. If she can go against an immobile top laner and knows how to freeze a lane, she's fine, but if not she'll get wrecked.
So that leaves Kindred and Quinn. If you don't get ahead immediately and do something, you'll probably lose the game. 60% winrate at 25 minutes, under 50% winrate after for both of them. Both of them probably need nerfs too.
tl;dr: No, marksmen can't solo lane.
Also, do you notice how it's just a list of "This Marksmen can go in this lane, and this other one can go in this other lane"? A list that doesn't even include Jinx. Where if you wanna just play J4, you can just play j4 in whatever lane you want.
Left Hook Larry29 votesI can't tell if this is serious or not. You're Silver 4. You shouldn't be worrying about win rates or meta. I can take the lowest win rate champ and perform in that elo. That site you're using takes the data from plat + players and games.
But I'll argue your points anyways
You mention Ez and Varus win rates. But these don't mean much. Yasuo has a 45% win rate currently. Does that mean he's unviable. Look him up on that site.
Kindred is the most banned/picked marksman in high elo/lcs right now. Quinn is strong top lane as well and in the jungle in the higher elo. Same with graves.
Where if you wanna just play J4, you can just play j4 in whatever lane you want.
Using your logic you can't take j4 anywhere but top or jg. J4 mid isn't viable nor is j4 bot lane. If I want to play any melee champ adc I can't, what your point?
A list that doesn't even include Jinx
And? You said you played a certain role, not one champ, so why is me not mentioning Jinx a problem? All of those marksmen can fit perfectly in those roles and be viable in higher elo.
Mistress Madoka4 votes[{quoted}](name=Savage Bear,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=E53lyzT4,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-15T03:00:27.721+0000)
You're Silver 4.
Oh boy, One of those guys. One does not need to, for instance, be a pro Baseball player in order to keep up with Stats and know what they're talking about.
-Reads the rest of the post-
Still, you do make some pretty Valid points.
Left Hook Larry20 votesThe site he got his data was from plat+ players so it's not logical for a silver 4 kid to bring up stats from plat players and use it as an excuse not to play those champs.
And you also must have missed the part where I said "I'll argue your points anyway"
Git GUD
Mistress Madoka4 votesI didn't miss any bit of that, hence my statement of "Still, you do make some pretty Valid Points"
Whether he is Silver or not is Irrelevant. It is useful data, regardless.
NecromanciCat10 votes[{quoted}](name=Madoka KanameSan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=E53lyzT4,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-15T05:34:00.451+0000)
I didn't miss any bit of that, hence my statement of "Still, you do make some pretty Valid Points"
Whether he is Silver or not is Irrelevant. It is useful data, regardless.
Here's the problem: It's not irrelevant. Sure, knowing the stats is useful, but if some 12 year old in little League knew the frequency of Fastballs:Curveballs from a left-handed pitcher to a switch hitter, how is that going to help him in his games?
It won't.
This game has an entirely different dynamic from platinum and higher to gold and lower. Trash champions like Katarina can easily carry bronze games because bronze players don't understand what CCing the death lotus is.
Back in S3 and 4, before I stopped playing again until this pre-season, I was a platinum player and I would go onto a B5 smurf every so often and do things that would NEVER fly at my level. I went Rene mid and ended up 1v5ing, and winning, because they tried baron at low HP. I went Yasuo ADC and rolled over everyone. I've gone AP Blitz mid.
The statistics for win rates and champion:role frequencies aren't useful, more often than not, someone at Silver 4 can win with a champion they're really good with despite his stats at the plat+ level.
It might make me sound like a dick, but bronze and silver players think that just because they know the stats, they can't go full AP Bard mid because the "pros aren't doing it."
Tl;Dr Yes, Plat+ stats are irrelevant at the - Low gold to a degree - Silver and lower level.
HexaDecimel2 votesEven though I am unranked, I am glad I figured out that champions with channeled abilities have a rough day if you have CC. Its why I love nautilus so much...........alright I am going to leave now :p
Left Hook Larry10 votesBut it's not because he used a site that gets data from PLAT+ players and is using it as an excuse for his own gameplay which is Silver. It just doesn't make logical sense to not play Ezreal or Varus mid just because of their win rates in plat+ when you're silver.
Shonjl1 votesThis is basically it. You can't use high rating stats with low elo games. In Bronze/Silver rating, you could go bloody Viegar ADC or MF support or other such crazy things and still do well. In low elo all that matters is how well you know a champion while in high elo all that matters is team comp at the same time how to counter the enemy. Counterpicking is usually irrelevant in low elo while its usually the deciding factor in high elo.
HayRoss4 votes[{quoted}](name=Savage Bear,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=E53lyzT4,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-01-15T02:12:05.268+0000) Vayne can top
Hell no! OUT! OUT OF MY TOP LANE!
Mecha MaIphite4 votesvayne top should be a bannable offence
someone who hates happiness so much is probably going to be an asshole anyways
HayRoss2 votesIt's like Teemo top, but with atleast %40 more true damage
Shonjl1 votesVayne or Teemo top are never going to win if the Top laner is semi competant. Don't die to Teemo within the first 10 minutes til you get a Spirit Visage and you can kill him already. Vayne just get some armor and you can trade with her and scare her.
Vayne might be the tank killer but that does her little good when the tank can run into her face and kill her in about 5 seconds when it takes her about 10 seconds to kill you.
TeCoolMage1 votesBut Teemo is 20% more toxic
manbearswine2 votesvayne top should be a bannable offence
someone who hates happiness so much is probably going to be an asshole anyways
Tell you what,I'll trade you 
top for 
bot,you can have the goat,I'd rather deal with vayne.
TeCoolMage1 votesYou know I've actually played Soraka top, and the fact she can heal minions +ranged harass + sustain makes her more scary than Vlad.
Good luck getting your stacks Nasus
Left Hook Larry2 votesDon't get me wrong, I absolutely hate facing an ADC top because it's absolute cancer.
I was just using it to prove a point
TurquoiseYoshi7 votes
All five have been played at positions other than ADC with AD builds in the past year in the pros. Three have been in the past 1-2 months. Two were today. And, if you really want to be a Jinx one-trick, then learn her in other lanes. She might not be optimal, but that's why you learn her. I've been lately trying to one-trick Gnar. Am I raging on the Boards because the only thing he's meta on is top? No, I'm practicing my jungle clears and support skills.
Sinlaire4 votesI have about a 50% win rate playing Darius support and in some games i lose it's because top went and fed the riven or mid got ganked hard on top of feeding the zed or something.
Knowing how to play champions that some consider only good in a certain lane somewhere else can often be beneficial when done right. The hook and multiple slows on darius along with his innate tankiness and Q sustain making him a decent supp in some match up. Not to mention his kill secure. many times iw ind up cleaning up most of the kills bot lane, build tank, and then turn and use it to peel for and feed my adc later. Sometimes they're upset, but once i start spoon feeding them they forget lane phase entirely.
Tails Doll1 votes50% win rate on 4 games it's not really good...
Sinlaire1 voteshmm. I've played at least 10 games with darius supp so if you're only seeing 4 its because i dont do it often and that over the span of.... well whenever juggernauts came out till now.
But as a whole i dont exactly consider a 50% win rate something to be proud of more than "im using a top lane tank as a sup in a pretty well defined off meta role and still able to keep from losing MR while having fun."
I figure if you can pull that off without the least bit of try hard then i consider that a win in my book. not everything has to be about climbing, sometimes just going steady is fine.
1Maza1 votesI got ADC in 73% of my games this season. They said ADC mains would expect to get their role around 50% of the time. ADC is not just a role, it's the class of champions I like to play.
If you like to play tanks, you can be a support, a jungle, or a top laner. If you like to play Marksmen, you can be an ADC. That's it. Whenever an ADC is consistently successful in another lane (Ezreal, Graves) they get nerfed. ADCs are not solo laners.
And it really doesn't help that I main the least role diverse champion in the game. Jinx doesn't go bot something like 0.2% of the time.
It's possible I won't see a real decrease in the amount of games I play that I enjoy, but from what they said I'm going to like playing League 20% less.
So pick ADC or mid. Corki, Ezreal, and Kog come to mind, but you can honestly play pretty much any ADC mid if you want. If people call you a troll, just do well and make them eat their words.
disregardable1 votesActually, I've only gotten stuck with mid twice out of all my queues so far. One someone dodged, the other the ADC traded with me. This new matching thing is the best. EVEN MORE ADC GAMES YES.
HadesHimself271 votesI got ADC in 73% of my games this season. They said ADC mains would expect to get their role around 50% of the time. ADC is not just a role, it's the class of champions I like to play.
If you like to play tanks, you can be a support, a jungle, or a top laner. If you like to play Marksmen, you can be an ADC. That's it. Whenever an ADC is consistently successful in another lane (Ezreal, Graves) they get nerfed. ADCs are not solo laners.
And it really doesn't help that I main the least role diverse champion in the game. Jinx doesn't go bot something like 0.2% of the time.
It's possible I won't see a real decrease in the amount of games I play that I enjoy, but from what they said I'm going to like playing League 20% less.
Was this before Kindred was released? an ADC Marksman in jungle. (I'm new, I really don't know)
disregardable1 votesNo, it was after. I didn't consider Kindred much of an ADC at the time (short range, ability dependent, mostly picked for her ult over her damage). Besides that, she's just as one dimensional as the other ADCs. Instead of only being playable in bot lane, she's only playable in jungle. After her nerfs it's hard to consider her even a successful jungle. She's almost never played.
I was right to complain with the information Riot gave to us, but the end result turned out wrong! The amount of times I got ADC went from 70% to like 95%. ADC/Mid is basically just queue ADC.
fractalfantasies3 votesThe new system is much better for ranked, but it's annoying that teambuilder in normals has been taken away.
Sightless663 votesWhile this is a valid response for people who played draft mode before, it means nothing for team builder players. They did get the exact role they wanted every game without fail. Now they won't. For them, this is a worse system.
