You should be able to play whatever you want in normals as long as you aren't TRYING to lose

Visigoth··121 votes·8,008 views

This is for all you AP Poppy mid mains. This is for the guy who likes playing Heimerdinger jungle. This is for that lovely lady who mains LeBlanc support. This is for the people who actually try to have fun.

At its core, League of Legends is a video game. Video games were invented to be fun. They were created for the sole purpose of coming home after a long day of work/school or whatever and to just relax. Video games are fun.

Based on the fact that a video game is supposed to be some form of entertainment. Whether it be a challenge to conquer, like Dark Souls, an open world, your's to create and shape, like Minecraft, a world where you decide how you play and fight, like Skyrim, or even something as simple as sitting back and enjoying so blasting people faces in with some buddies, like Call of Duty. Some games, like Hearthstone, are casual experiences meant for your free time, others are a journey, meant to twist and manipulate your emotions, and really feel like you're there, like the Last of Us.

League of Legends does not offer any of those. The only challenge is trying to come together with 4 people who probably hate you and try to beat an enemy team. The entire time you are guaranteed almost every time to have at least one of those 9 strangers be a complete and utter asshole. Often there is no fun, because if you try to have fun (even in normals or Urf for fuck's sake) people always get mad at you. You can't sit back and play Leona top, or else clearly you're trolling. Any time you want to have fun that isn't just playing some flavor of the month broken champion, you get flamed. And reported.

I just got done playing a game of Attack Speed Shen jungle. Sounds weird right? It is. But it's pretty fun. Keep in mind this was a normal game. After the game ended the enemy Trundle said "Shen your trash," in which I simply just stated that I was trying to have fun, after all, what's the point of tryharding in a normal game, if I wanted to do that I'd go play Kha'Zix or Hecarim in ranked. He replied with something along the lines of "No you're just raging because you suck and can't play this game. You build AD Shen because you're trash. Your only allowed to build tank shen." Meanwhile the enemy Sejuani was just laughing the entire time saying things like "Haha. LOL. Rekt."

The point of this long and convoluted story is that this game's community is utter trash. This community has less of a sense of compassion than Adolf Hitler, and that is not a joke nor hyperbole. This community is full of prepubescent 12 year olds who do nothing but flame others all day. People may say "just mute them" but even muting everyone in the game doesn't help when afterwards they can still talk to you and report you for pretty much anything and because people 9x report you, you're the one getting banned. Because you wanted to try something fun. Because you decided "I wonder how AP Rammus is," or you wanted to try out full AP Nami.

By far this is the shittiest community of any game I have ever played. Ever. Of all time. Everyone is so obsessed with meta and who is OP and how to gain ELO or just flat out win games, they never stopped to think if they were even having fun. Imagine a new player coming into this game. I made a smurf account to play with my friend who was new, so we wouldn't get paired with people at my level so he gets stomped. People, at level 5-10 are so god damn toxic. There's so many smurfs now. I don't remember it being this bad when I started about a year and a half ago. My friend got flamed because he wasn't a smurf. Are you shitting me? You play on a low level account and expect to not get paired with people who are low level? And go on to call them a troll because they're fucking new to the game?

This community needs a change Riot, or else your fanbase will begin to die off. It's growth will stop pretty soon if so many people keep making low level accounts and flame at level 5. Then the others will leave because of the same people flaming in high levels. Muting isn't enough, this community is garbage.

125 Comments

Draazur10 votes

I have to agree with you honestly... Normals are meant for learning the game, trying new stuff, and HAVING FUN. I can see why people would get mad if they got a LeBlanc support in ranked or something, but Normals really don't matter that much... Have fun! I also like normals just so I can try out new champs, or new item builds.

Eleshakai5 votes

{quoted}

I have to agree with you honestly... Normals are meant for learning the game, trying new stuff, and HAVING FUN. I can see why people would get mad if they got a LeBlanc support in ranked or something, but Normals really don't matter that much... Have fun! I also like normals just so I can try out new champs, or new item builds.

The thing is, fun means different things to different people. A lot of people play normals, not because they don't want to have a good chance of winning but because they don't want the stress of rankings and drafts. These people have the expectation going in that everyone is going to take it seriously and try to win and not sabotage that.

Then there are people like you. People for who those games are just a playground - a sandbox. A place where they can go to do whatever they want 'just for fun'. Your expectations are much lower, you just want fun.

These differences in expectations mean that ONE of the two of you is going to not have fun. Either you are not going to get your 'mess around and have fun' or the other person is not going to get their 'fun having a slightly less serious game'.

This is EXACTLY why Riot created TeamBuilder. So that these differences in expectations no longer exist. Why are people so against it? It's entire purpose is to alleviate this. If I go into a game wanting a normal experience, I can sit out until I find a lobby that is 'meta'. If you go into a game wanting to try leblanc support you can pick leblanc support and find a lobby that is HAPPY WITH THAT. No more differences of opinion. No more broken expectations. No more trolling accusations.

I don't understand why people are so against the answer that 'teambuilder is what you want if you want to pick just anything and play'? That is WHAT IT IS FOR lol

Draazur4 votes

"there are people like you" I never said that I didn't like winning... All I'm saying is that if people want to play competitively, go play Ranked, that's what it's for. Teambuilder isn't just for off meta builds either, it's there so you can get specific role practice again and again. If people have fun winning and playing competitively, they can play Ranked or Normal Draft, that's fine. But when people whine about off meta things in Blind Pick I always have to facepalm.

Eleshakai3 votes

{quoted}

"there are people like you" I never said that I didn't like winning... All I'm saying is that if people want to play competitively, go play Ranked, that's what it's for. Teambuilder isn't just for off meta builds either, it's there so you can get specific role practice again and again. If people have fun winning and playing competitively, they can play Ranked or Normal Draft, that's fine. But when people whine about off meta things in Blind Pick I always have to facepalm.

Some people don't want to worry about the stress of ranked but still want to try to focus on winning.

Honestly, I think Riot should just completely REMOVE blind pick normals and make teambuilder take its place because it does everything normal does but FAR BETTER. Normal draft is fine, but blind pick is basically an inferior version of teambuilder and it is silly to support both.

Fredart2 votes

It ain't inferior, team builder if you want to do offmeta it takes like 2 hours to find 3 other people then another hour to find the 5th. whereas you just lock in and minimize league till it loads into the game like with solo queue. If anything, team builder is inferior.

Eleshakai3 votes

{quoted}

It ain't inferior, team builder if you want to do offmeta it takes like 2 hours to find 3 other people then another hour to find the 5th. whereas you just lock in and minimize league till it loads into the game like with solo queue. If anything, team builder is inferior.

Queue times are determined by the number of people who want to play with you when you play that pick. That should tell you something about what you're doing in normal... you're literally ruining the time of 1-4 other people who would rather not have to play with you while you play what you're planning.

Again, team builder is superior. It is efficient and prevents people from doing things that are a detriment to other players' gaming experience. Your 'complaint' about teambuilder is actually a pro of it.

Black Star 12993 votes

Is going off-meta really going to prevent one from winning?

The meta does not exist in normals, nor should exist in ranked, really. If you're good, then go ahead. If you're bad then don't do it. As long as you have the INTENTION of winning, it's all good. Still as bad as that FOTM player who goes with the meta and feeds than someone who goes out of the meta and feeds. What is the difference?

There really isn't a line with the meta either. Is Vayne Top allowed? Teemo ADC? Yi Top? Quinn ADC? Lulu mid?

Basically, if you want to win, you ARE going competitively. That is competition right there. Obviously that's what every competitive person wants. To win. Go play ranked then. Tons of try-hards there.

If you want to have FUN however, go into normals. Normals are where there is no stress and everything is fun. Everyone still tries to win, but that is not the aim of normals. Fun is the reason normals are played. Winning is just another bonus.

Eleshakai2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Black Star 1299,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=TjL5hA2X,comment-id=00110000000000000001,timestamp=2015-04-07T02:39:22.680+0000)

Is going off-meta really going to prevent one from winning?

The meta does not exist in normals, nor should exist in ranked, really. If you're good, then go ahead. If you're bad then don't do it. As long as you have the INTENTION of winning, it's all good. Still as bad as that FOTM player who goes with the meta and feeds than someone who goes out of the meta and feeds. What is the difference?

There really isn't a line with the meta either. Is Vayne Top allowed? Teemo ADC? Yi Top? Quinn ADC? Lulu mid?

Basically, if you want to win, you ARE going competitively. That is competition right there. Obviously that's what every competitive person wants. To win. Go play ranked then. Tons of try-hards there.

If you want to have FUN however, go into normals. Normals are when there is no stress and everything is fun. Fun is the reason normals are played. Winning is just another bonus.

You're making a few unsafe assumptions:

  1. You're assuming knowledge and preparation aren't just as important to 'competitiveness' as desire to win.
  2. You're assuming the term 'meta' is some static. Meta simply refers to the general shape of the game that people have discovered to be the strongest at this one time. People are frequently flexing the meta, but they're doing so through #1. They don't just randomly pick something that lacks the tools to function and go 'oh everything's going to be okay'.
  3. You assume blind pick is the best place to experiment. Blind pick is actually the WORST place to experiment because it is the place where you have the least coordination from your team. Experimentation requires that you take into account what other players are doing and find a way to account for whatever weakness your 'experimental pick' is bringing to the lineup. To use one of your examples...top Vayne is absolutely allowed... if you know your opposing toplaner is going to be a champ that can't deal with her AND if your teammates are willing to make up for the weaknesses that top Vayne brings in terms of teamfight engage, tankiness, and zone control - all of which are things that toplaners currently are responsible at least partially for. So picking Vayne top in blind pick IS a troll pick, while picking her in teambuilder or draft after making arrangements with your team to pick up the slack most certainly is NOT.
  4. A player who is going 'with the meta and feeding' is simply learning the new champs. Provided he understands the basic mechanics, the only place for him to do so is either normal or teambuilder. Both are acceptable places, but where else is he supposed to go? A player who randomly brings out something that lacks the tools to function in the role the team needs without first discussing it with them IS trolling. Whether they 'desire to win or not' they are handicapping their team by not bringing the TOOLS THAT THEIR TEAM NEEDS while simultaneously ensuring that their team ASSUMES that they will have those tools by going into the game mode most reliant upon the meta.

You see, the meta exists so that blind pick can work. The meta is 100% necessary for blind pick to work. Because when you go into a game, you have to be able to assume that people understand, at least at a basic level, what each role is going to be asking of them. Since you have so little time to coordinate and no way to know if a person knows what they're doing... the meta ensures people have a basic idea of what is going to be expected of them. That is why it exists.

Black Star 12992 votes

You're talking like you are going to play ranked. Seriously. This is supposed to be a fun game. You sound like you want to win. That the only way to have fun is to win by having knowledge of the entire game. League is definitely more than that.

And on your assumption that this vayne top is a horrible player. What if she isn't? What if she's been playing top for a whole 50 games or so and does good and just accidentally messes up this one game? Is she considered trolling? Does she get equal treatment for someone who also is in the same condition, but happens to be a Riven Top main? Is this Riven or Vayne considered a troll pick now?

The Meta is an opinion. It is constantly changing and varying from player to player. I think Vayne top has the ability to do really well in top lane. She does have the cc to protect herself, has a tank shredding ability, and has the range to protect her vulnerabilities. She also adds on to the extra damage a team can have, making up for the things she can't provide for her team. She is also PROVIDING the TEAM not what she's really expected of, but at least CONTRIBUTING THE TEAM SO THAT IT CAN LEAD TO VICTORY. That's all is required of one in normals, really. Does a team really need to follow the meta in order to win? I don't think so.

And if this Vayne carries the game, is she considered trolling? No. And if this Vayne feeds, is she considered trolling? No. If the Riven carries or feeds, she still isn't trolling either.

Trolling is the act of PURPOSEFULLY trying to lose. If the accused is not trying to lose, then he or she should not be accused of trolling.

Again, Normals are a place to:

  1. Try out new champions, or practice with champions with half the seriousness
  2. Relax and escape from the stress of being expected of winning and serious discussion.
  3. Have fun

Really, the 3rd one is mostly what ya need.

(P.S. What are your opinions of people like Quinn and Teemo? Just cause they're non-traditional champions for their specified roles, does just picking them mean that one is trolling?)

Jubbinaut2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Black Star 1299,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=TjL5hA2X,comment-id=0011000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-04-07T04:23:00.263+0000)

Trolling is the act of PURPOSEFULLY trying to lose.

I would actually consider the inverse of that to be more accurate: Trolling is the act of NOT trying to win.

It's a minor difference, I think - primarily of intent - but an important one, nevertheless.

Trylobyte3 votes

{quoted}

I would actually consider the inverse of that to be more accurate: Trolling is the act of NOT trying to win.

It's a minor difference, I think - primarily of intent - but an important one, nevertheless.

It is a minor but important distinction, but I tend to agree with the original statement that 'trolling' is 'trying to lose' rather than 'not trying to win'. The key difference here is that 'trying to win' has many magnitudes and is very open for debate. Am I trying to win if I pick a 'bad' champion in selection, or a champion that I'm unfamiliar with? Am I trying to win if I don't gank bot lane because I'm trying to improve my CS as mid? Am I trying to win if I take an unusual support to see how they do? You could easily argue I'm not trying to win because I'm deliberately not playing optimally; that would make me a troll by your definition. But I'm not trying to lose, either, and that's what I consider important.

Note that this logic mainly applies to normals. You shouldn't be experimenting in Ranked too much - Practice CS and off-picks in normal games first!

mvargus1 votes

{quoted}

I would actually consider the inverse of that to be more accurate: Trolling is the act of NOT trying to win.

It's a minor difference, I think - primarily of intent - but an important one, nevertheless.

+1

LoL is a "zero-sum" game in that the number of winners equals the number of losers. So if you aren't actively playing to win, you are hurting your teammates.

This isn't arguable, this isn't ignorable as the OP tries to. The truth is that that normal are simply "pre-season" ranked games.

But the OP treats them as a joke. It is as if during baseball spring training the catcher goes to the manager and says. "I want to play first base today, but I'll use my catcher's mitt and wear my gear." I think anyone who knows the game can imagine just how bad that catcher would play if it was allowed, and most of us can also imagine the scorn that would be heaped on him and the manager who allowed it.

Yet, the OP feels like he should be allowed to do that in a game where he does not warn the others he's going to do it and where they are locked in before they even find out that he planned to do it. He is effectively wasting their time.

Personally, I'd love to see a new ban for players like this, if reported they get a 2 week normals ban. (they can play the coop v AI or ranked) and the first time they get reported for doing this in ranked they get a 1 week ranked ban and an additional normals ban. Force them to do their goofing off in coop or they can find another game to play.

rinsujo1 votes

So basically what it sounds like you're saying is that if someone wants to play league as a game, for entertainment, then he or she should only play coop v ai, which any competent player can pretty much steamroll? I'm sorry, where's the entertainment in that? A normals ban? That's absurd. If i want to play ap rammus, or support renekton, or anything else that isn't meta, I shouldn't get banned from normals because my team is too busy flaming me and throwing to realize that I'm laying out stuns and setting up fights for them just as well as i do with leona. If i could reasonably expect my team to communicate with me instead of flame the instant i sacrifice myself for my adc to pick up the triple, i think they'd find it easier to win. I'm not saying everyone who picks somoething off meta isnt trolling, crap happens, sometimes people are douchebags. But I can't stand seeing something like top lane karthus get yelled and screamed at just for playing something unusual. If the player is confidant in their champ and their abilities, go for it. Try it. Sometimes it'll work. Sometimes it wont. But 0/2 zed mid has no right to bitch at 3/2 karthus top for "throwing."

Honestly, the best solution i can think of is splitting queues into "tryhard" and "just for fun" modes, since that's the two largest groups of players who can't seem to get along. And don't tell me "TB is for fun" since i don't feel like waiting two hours to play a role that isnt support.

mvargus3 votes

I play League as a game for entertainment, but I don't take way off-meta picks that handicap my team.

That's the problem here. Some people playing don't want to accept that there are 4 people who are directly affected by their champ and build decisions and from your post, it appears you don't care about the other 4 people involved. You will take something like support renekton, because its entertaining for you and subject 4 other people to a minimum of 20 minutes of trying to cover for the deficiencies in the team comp your choice created.

And there is teambuilder, where you can enter with your pick clearly visible and explain to others what you are doing, or you can get with 5 friends and say "Hey, can I try something." Heck I did that with my friends once and tried Cassiopeia support. It didn't work, but they understood what I was doing and adjusted the top and mid lane choices to try to compensate for me being off-meta.

As for you saying it takes hours to fill teambuilder. I've never had it take more than 15 minutes and that was when my group was looking for a specific jungler. Usually it takes less than 5 to fill all the roles. Of course, that was when we were mostly sticking to the meta so we weren't getting immediately kicked by the room captain when he saw something like TF jungle and decided that we didn't fit the team comp he was trying to build.

I find that I agree with some of the other posters who had said repeatedly that your attitude belongs in a 1v1 game rather than a team based game. In any team based game the team has to come first. The old saying of "There is no 'I' in team" fits. The meta is nothing more than the wisdom/experience of thousands of players saying "these champs work best." People follow it because LoL is a competitive game and people want to win. You come in saying "**** my team and any team comp they want. I'm going to play this way off-meta pick because I'm a selfish jerk who doesn't care about ruining the fun for others." and then you wonder why people flame you.

And there are "just for fun" modes. URF is one as is ARAM. Or again you can find some friends here or in game and organize a group. There are plenty of teamspeak communities that regularly advertise that they are recruiting, and I'm sure you could find a group who wants to play some fun "abnormals" if you ask.

However, if you haven't set it up ahead of time, you shouldn't ruin the game for others by forcing them to accept something they aren't ready for and would not have agreed to if they had a choice. Again, you are getting flamed because you have went away from the conventional wisdom and they are naturally worried it won't work.

And your example is somewhat meaningless. Sure a 0/2 zed shouldn't be saying anything about anyone "throwing", but its likely that the Zed is thinking that the 2 deaths you gave up as Karthas will come back to hurt the team as you gave them to a Riven who will be able to snowball through the team, especially as you have a Warwick jungle and no one is going to be able to play tank once the teamfights start since you went with a squishy mage for top lane. That's where the off-meta comes in. Honestly with the way the game has developed the laning phase is increasingly meaningless unless someone feeds hard. It's once laning ends that things will matter. And at that time the team comp needs to be solid, with certain minimum levels of tankiness, CC and DPS. If you go off-meta, you are reducing one of those elements and the balance might not work.

I can't count the number of fights I've been in where one even mildly off-meta pick burnt my team in the teamfight stage. Most often its been someone deciding not to go tank when we needed one and the team's squishiness resulted in us being crushed despite entering the teamfight stage with a solid lead.

Again, I feel your "I can play what I want" attitude only belongs in teambuilder or bot matches. Normals are COMPETITIVE even if they aren't for rank, and unless Riot agrees with you and creates a "I just want to goof off" queue for people like you, you can expect to receive a large ration of hate every time you decide to make a major break in the meta just because you are bored.

rinsujo1 votes

Normals shouldn't be competitive, i think, is the main sticking point here. I absolutely in no way am trying to jeopardize my teams chances of winning by going off meta. Renekton support, keeping the example simple, is something I'd try when we already have a solid amount of CC and a bit too much magic damage - say, sejuani jungle, fizz mid, ryze top. I do care about the other four people playing alongside me, and I want them to have fun and win. I pick leona support, in that instance, and suddenly we have one source of AD damage and the other team just stacks mr for the rest of us. My issue with teambuilder is a combination - I dislike how often I want to try something off-meta, only to wind up playing against the same combination of liss, vi, zed, thresh, jinx that i would have seen in any other game. I also don't like waiting a quarter to half an hour, just to have someone dodge and start looking for a team all over again.


I'm not saying I'm one of those autolock assholes who says "I'm playing karthus top i don't care, screw you guys, you have to build around me." But if we have a Zed mid, Vi jungle, Leona support, it's safe for me to take karth top, build catalyst, roa and rylais, and go as bruiser mage. Our engage won't suffer thanks to vi, our peel won't suffer thanks to leona, and our magic damage wont suffer thanks to me. If we have a WW jungle, I'll ask in champ select if he's going tank, bruiser or assassin, since he can build all three well. If he's going assassin, I'd go swain instead of Karth, so that we have more sustain/tankiness. I'm not saying "screw the teamcomp i do what i want", I'm saying stop raging because I'm playing a champ you havent seen recently.

I mostly play urf and arams now, but I enjoy SR and i want to be able to play the game without getting screamed at. I end up mostly playing with friends, but again, I should be able to play solo queue once in a while without getting screamed at. It's a game, not a job.

Again, you are getting flamed because you have went away from the conventional wisdom and they are naturally worried it won't work.

Flaming shouldn't be people's first response in this situation. That's when you're supposed to have a little faith in your teammates and just play the damn game.

And last but not least, you speak like the meta is a) a set in stone thing that never changes and b) that going off meta means we're more likely to lose. A) Meta is fluid. notice that since assassins ran wild mid last season, tankier picks like urgot/darius mid are showing up? called it. tanks are swinging back into favor due partially to balancing choices by riot, and partially because assassins were so popular people got tired of blowing up. once tanks/bruisers become more dominant, you'll start to see more immobile, damage based mages come back mid to counter them. followed by mobile mages and assassins again. But whenever i took swain mid last season i got flamed. Why? Pros hadn't done it yet. B) Going off-meta (not fuck the meta, off meta. difference there) actually improves your odds just a bit if your opponent doesnt know how to react. See UOL v FNC game week 8 of LCS EU.

The meta is nothing more than the wisdom/experience of thousands of players saying "these champs work best." People follow it because LoL is a competitive game and people want to win.

The meta is what the pros play because it's consistent, but the pros are playing with the same teams over and over. they don't have to communicate because they already know what their team is doing. It's not a champ list, it's an archetype. the "champ list" that most players refer to as the meta is just what feels strong/has a high pick/ban rate. Case in point, Lee/Zed. they're picked constantly because they feel strong. their win rate isnt sky high, because they aren't OP. they just feel that way. Those champs don't work best if you can't play them well.

you can expect to receive a large ration of hate every time you decide to make a major break in the meta just because you are bored.


I find that I agree with some of the other posters who had said repeatedly that your attitude belongs in a 1v1 game rather than a team based game. In any team based game the team has to come first. The old saying of "There is no 'I' in team" fits

See, that's toxic bullshit. It. is. a. game. Play to have fun and trust your team.

I will, however, upvote you for the constructive post. Thank you.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

Normals shouldn't be competitive, i think, is the main sticking point here. I absolutely in no way am trying to jeopardize my teams chances of winning by going off meta. Renekton support, keeping the example simple, is something I'd try when we already have a solid amount of CC and a bit too much magic damage - say, sejuani jungle, fizz mid, ryze top. I do care about the other four people playing alongside me, and I want them to have fun and win. I pick leona support, in that instance, and suddenly we have one source of AD damage and the other team just stacks mr for the rest of us. My issue with teambuilder is a combination - I dislike how often I want to try something off-meta, only to wind up playing against the same combination of liss, vi, zed, thresh, jinx that i would have seen in any other game. I also don't like waiting a quarter to half an hour, just to have someone dodge and start looking for a team all over again.

Flaming shouldn't be people's first response in this situation. That's when you're supposed to have a little faith in your teammates and just play the damn game.

And last but not least, you speak like the meta is a) a set in stone thing that never changes and b) that going off meta means we're more likely to lose. A) Meta is fluid. notice that since assassins ran wild mid last season, tankier picks like urgot/darius mid are showing up? called it. tanks are swinging back into favor due partially to balancing choices by riot, and partially because assassins were so popular people got tired of blowing up. once tanks/bruisers become more dominant, you'll start to see more immobile, damage based mages come back mid to counter them. followed by mobile mages and assassins again. But whenever i took swain mid last season i got flamed. Why? Pros hadn't done it yet. B) Going off-meta (not fuck the meta, off meta. difference there) actually improves your odds just a bit if your opponent doesnt know how to react. See UOL v FNC game week 8 of LCS EU.

The meta is what the pros play because it's consistent, but the pros are playing with the same teams over and over. they don't have to communicate because they already know what their team is doing. It's not a champ list, it's an archetype. the "champ list" that most players refer to as the meta is just what feels strong/has a high pick/ban rate. Case in point, Lee/Zed. they're picked constantly because they feel strong. their win rate isnt sky high, because they aren't OP. they just feel that way. Those champs don't work best if you can't play them well.


See, that's toxic bullshit. It. is. a. game. Play to have fun and trust your team.

I will, however, upvote you for the constructive post. Thank you.

I cut out a few bits to shorten the quote.

First of all, nobody is saying the flaming is RIGHT they're just explaining to you why it happens. You are doing something that people do not want you to do, and they are getting angry because you are impeding their chances to have fun. Once again, it is a TEAM GAME and if you are not willing to accept that your team might not be okay with what you choose, you might be better suited to a 1v1 game.

Secondly, if you are actually making accommodations for your team, you are not the majority. But if you are UNWILLING to ask your team "Guys, I would like to do <this> which means we'll need <this> in <this> role. Are you guys okay with this?" and actually abide by their answer.... then you're doing it wrong. That's the problem. It all goes back to expectations:

The majority of people who are playing expect certain things from certain roles based off of what the meta dictates. The meta, btw, is not dictated by the pro players. Pro players play an entirely different game from us - lane swaps, knowing who your opponents are beforehand, etc. The meta is dictated by those in Challenger/Master solo queue typically. Sometimes we'll see a pick in pro play and it'll become popular in solo queue, but it won't become meta unless it WORKS with the solo queue game.

But sorry for getting off topic... people expect the meta. So if there are 4 people on your team all expecting the meta, and you just pick something non-meta without asking them if they are okay with it first... you are sabotaging their chances for fun. Why? Because you've altered the game in a way they are uncomfortable with, and you've made them WORRY about their chances in stead of focusing on their own play.

None of this justifies hate or rage, but it does EXPLAIN it. You shouldn't be getting hated on... but you have to recognize that YOUR fun is NOT more important than ALL FOUR OTHER PLAYERS on your team. When engaging in a team activity, sometimes you have to sacrifice a little of your own enjoyment for the sake of the team. And if that thought bothers you, then - again - your attitude is better suited to a 1v1 environment and you MIGHT find yourself having more fun if you found a game that didn't place you with teammates.

You're right about the meta changes... but it changes gradually and the WHOLE TEAM changes around it. One person changing because they think they know what is better just leaves a hole in the team. For example, the meta moved away from tanky toplaners... but it did that at the same time as it moved TOWARDS tanky junglers and durable midlaners. So if your team is sitting on an old-style lee sin jungle with a leblanc mid and you decide 'Kennen can beat my top lane opponent so that's great', you're still screwing your team over. Why? Because the meta teamcomp dictated that a tanky toplaner was needed in order for your team to have the durability it needs to succeed. Now if your jungler likes sej and your midlane wanted to try vlad, then going Kennen is a great idea.

The meta doesn't change because one person thinks they know better, it changes because the shape of the entire team changes. If you just change the shape of one part of the team, the team just suddenly has a weakness it didn't have before.

As to your comment about teambuilder... again it goes back to the fact that people DO NOT WANT to play with what you are playing. If teambuilder is taking more than 5 minutes to fill out it is simply because you are playing something that people would rather not play with. And since you are doing that, I think a long wait time is fair... because again, team game. If 4 people don't want to play with you, I think they should have the right to not play with you. And teambuilder gives them that power.

bad arcade kitty10 votes

i don't see why you added 'normals' in the title you should be able to play w/e you want in any mode as long as you try to win

Gladius Iuris2 votes

Ranked is a competitive mode and the idea of "meta" sort of applies. In a ranked game you do have to be responsible for what you pick. But other than ranked, I completely agree with you. Especially the URF mode, which is meant to be entertaining and troll.

thegurafighter4 votes

i think that in ranked you should consider picking strong champions over fun ones, because ranked is about winning and climbing. but i totally agree that in normal you should be able to play everything that works as long as you play legit.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

{quoted}

i think that in ranked you should consider picking strong champions over fun ones, because ranked is about winning and climbing. but i totally agree that in normal you should be able to play everything that works as long as you play legit.

i don't think that rules should force you to consider that

firstly it leads to ridiculousness when people can be reported and potentially punished literally for picking anything but the very best champions (meanwhile not everybody knows which are actually good, like some may consider top morgana as trolling, so not only the very best, but the very best according to ideas of some random people, also nobody cares if you can play those or not)

secondly, any feeder or poor player is always good for you, on average s/he will get on the enemy team more often than on yours (4/5 vs 5/5 places), so if somebody poorly plays their non meta pick it is actually a boon to you on a large distance

then, afaik the current rules don't enforce meta picks, but still some people were punished for playing poppy etc, which is a shame

ZeeDrakon7 votes

So your basically complaining that people dont want to lose because of your fun. Let me tell you the following: it is NOT fun for me if i have an ap poppy mid or a attackspeed shen jungle that makes me lose my games. It maybe fun for you but makes the game less fun for 4 lther individuals. So stop beeing egocentric and do that in a 5man premade, but not with randoms and expect to not get flamed

SEKAI6 votes

It's the same as racism or any other type of discrimination I guess, since you immediately judge something based on how it looks by using your "common sense", which I put it inside quotations since it's YOUR common sense.

It's normal game, win and lose doesn't matter, at all.

If you want to see competition it's YOUR FAULT to look at Normals, especially blind pick, in the first place. Not that guy who is trying random stuff in a casual mode that does in fact, involve 0 strategy in the first place.

Want minimal strategy? Draft is your buddy, Ranked is where you need to be. If you are talking about having to play "serious" in BLIND I can only laugh at how silly you are frankly.

ZeeDrakon1 votes

So i cant play normals because its fun for me to win?

SEKAI5 votes

Everyone loves eating.

Shop A serves hamburgers, it is also possible for them to serve you ramen if you demand to, with forceful attitude that is.

Is it reasonable to go into said shop A and order ramen every single time?

ZeeDrakon1 votes

Thats a really bad analogy tbH.

Seriously tho, 4 people have to accept having no fun getting shit kn because 1 player wants to have fun and makes a pick that had 10% winrate?

SEKAI7 votes

It's actually a correct analogy as far as I know,

Having mad fun was something Blind was made to do in the first place. Since you can't see enemy picks, no bans, short champ selection time while all on top of matching vs and with complete strangers, you REALLY can't get all strategic and "serious", it's impossible.

That's why we have Draft and Ranked for organised matchups, Blinds should stay as the free-for-all-try-it-all.

Occams Raiser2 votes

What the hell are you taking about? Award for the worse analogy goes to...

junglerboy167 votes

I have to agree. I don't play ranked because I don't really have the time and I'd rather stay unranked than get placed in Silver or Bronze and not have the time to spend climbing out. Basically, I play normals and a little ARAM. If someone whips out some real crazy crap like full AP MissFortune on us, I ask "are you trolling?" if they don't reply, I prepare for the worst, but if they say they are just trying it for fun, I try to help them out the best I can because I want them to succeed, just like I always want to succeed when I try crazy stuff. Trolling always sucks, but if they are just doing something because it is really fun, helping to make it the most fun possible is the best thing to do.

The other thing is you need to learn the difference between "off-meta/off builds" (AP Alistar, AP Varus, full AD Garen, etc.) and Troll picks (AP Riven, AD Anivia, full tank Corki, etc.).

Verxint3 votes

That last part is the most important thing IMO. There is non-metal that makes sense and there is non meta that is bleeding retarded.

For example, AD Bruiser Leona top is off meta, and suboptimal, but at least it makes sense. It has a feasible theory behind it. AP Corki is another example. It's probably ultimately more efficient to go AD Corki, but AP is still a usable build - he has many AP scaling spells on low-ish cooldowns.

AP Ashe, on the other hand, is retarded. You have one single ultimate spell that is a skillshot, and nothing else scales off AP, and the main purpose of that spell is CC, not damage. There is no natural damage in your kit. This doesn't mean AP Ashe will never win, or that it's not hilarious to hit arrows for over half of someone's HP. But it's still a troll build. It's not actually useful, it's just a one trick pony. AP Corki is a legitimate alternate build with its own playstyle. Same with AD Bruiser Leona, ADC Janna, AP Cow, AD Malphie, AP Xin and hundreds of other off meta builds. But AP Ashe, or PD stacking Rammus, or Tank Vayne, are pure troll builds.

That said, if someone is doing a troll build in a blind pick normal, people really shouldn't get that upset. But on the other hand, you should let your team know what you're doing and not get self righteous if someone on your team would prefer you not bust out the ASPD Mundo mid this game

JRobin311 votes

{quoted}

I have to agree. I don't play ranked because I don't really have the time and I'd rather stay unranked than get placed in Silver or Bronze and not have the time to spend climbing out. Basically, I play normals and a little ARAM. If someone whips out some real crazy crap like full AP MissFortune on us, I ask "are you trolling?" if they don't reply, I prepare for the worst, but if they say they are just trying it for fun, I try to help them out the best I can because I want them to succeed, just like I always want to succeed when I try crazy stuff. Trolling always sucks, but if they are just doing something because it is really fun, helping to make it the most fun possible is the best thing to do.

The other thing is you need to learn the difference between "off-meta/off builds" (AP Alistar, AP Varus, full AD Garen, etc.) and Troll picks (AP Riven, AD Anivia, full tank Corki, etc.).

I play plenty of champions that would be considered off-meta but are very strong nonetheless. I do it in ranked games to win as well as in normals or wherever I want to play them. If someone asks me if I'm trolling, I don't respond. To me that question is a cue that they are prepared to be negative to me all game and blame me if things don't go well. I choose not to feed their negativity, by not responding to it. There are always going to be haters everywhere. And players are afraid to be ranted at or to be called names. They are so afraid that sometimes they need someone like me who plays a slightly outside the meta champion so that they can put blame on someone else if things don't go well. I am not afraid, players can call me whatever they want. If they want to call me a troll for playing Attack Speed Shen or Kennen support, or whatever I choose to play, then that is their decision. I will play what I want and I will play to win. If someone asks me if I'm trolling, it sounds like they've already decided I am and I'm not going to waste time trying to convince them I'm not.

junglerboy161 votes

I don't think you understood the meaning of my post, I 100% support off-meta champ picks and play styles (I prefer it actually), all I am saying is I ask them first because I want to know ahead of time (since I'm usually the jungler) if it is worth investing my time to help them or if they are going to be trolling. I don't ask to be negative, I ask because I honestly want to know so I can mentally prepare my play style for how they are going to be doing things differently. I don't ask "are you trolling?" because I want to be derisive, I am asking because the number of people I run into who pick stuff like that and are trolling far outweighs the number of people I run into who aren't.

Kazaashi4 votes

People are WAAAAY to judgmental in this game. Just because someone picks something you don't agree with, doesn't mean you can flame them. It's just a game. Have fun and play hard.

Occams Raiser1 votes

People are judgmental cause the games take too long. I should say so long? If I got trolled for ten minutes i wouldn't give a shit either. 30 minutes..... I want to come find you where you live.

Kazaashi3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=TjL5hA2X,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-04-07T02:46:07.439+0000)

People are judgmental cause the games take too long. I should say so long? If I got trolled for ten minutes i wouldn't give a shit either. 30 minutes..... I want to come find you where you live.

I mean that people are too quick to decide someone is a troll, just because they are not playing the way we think they should be playing. Then once someone decides they are being trolled, they quit playing and lose a game that could have been won, possibly, maybe. The first 10 minutes of a game do not decide the outcome. There could be a DC on the other team, they could get cocky and have a bad engagement, or any number of mistakes that will throw a game.

Just because you "think" someone is trolling you, is not really an excuse to just give up on the game. I've won plenty of games with a "troll" in them, not very many 4v5s.

warpenguin5553 votes

the way i see it

Wanna try some random obscure thing? play blind pick

If you want to try and practice a champion because you want to use them for ranked, team builder.

Tuss7 votes

I would've thought teambuilder would be better for trying weird stuff, since then at least you know your team is fine with you playing Riven bot or Anivia top.

KidSpectre3 votes

It really, really isn't. In blind pick, people are "stuck" with you, so to speak, unless they dodge and take the penalty. In TB, the captain will just kick you. Or people will just find a different group so that, even if the captain is okay with your pick, it'll take a very long time to find 3 other people who will stick around. That's why I don't like TB.

Space Bum4 votes

I'm going with the other guy. I want to play ap Poppy mid. My team sees I queued up as Poppy mid mage. They don't kick me. Everyone should stay cool because they stuck around for it.

And I normally queue hop more when I do weird picks. Makes it go faster if you land in a game as last spot than waiting for a team to fill up. Fuck the police.

Tuss3 votes

If a teammate dislikes your choice in teambuilder, they can leave and get a new group within a few minutes (or instantly for junglers or supports)

If a teammate dislikes your choice in blind, they will have to wait 10-15 minutes in order to queue again and hope they don't have another reason to dodge when it comes about. Not that they might wait that long waiting for teammates as is teambuilder, but it's guaranteed.

In teambuilder, a teammate has literally no reason to flame you based on your pick since they had to agree to it along with everyone else on your team before the match started and they could have easily "dodged" with no penalty. (Not saying they won't insult you for other reasons though)

In blind, they will most likely flame you as they feel they were forced into letting you have your way or else they would be punished with time and a small nick towards a possible ban if they've been doing it often enough.

It's not all about you.

Da Turkey1 votes

IDK about teammates not flaming on you in team builder because of your weird pick. Once an enemy adc said "report the support, is playing support maokia." He was toxic as hell the entire game because of the support, even when all of our team and their team were telling him its his fault for queuing with that team. His reply? "I didn't notice"

Hyrum Graff2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Turkey,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=TjL5hA2X,comment-id=00030000000000010000,timestamp=2015-04-07T00:19:31.342+0000)

all of our team and their team were telling him its his fault for queuing with that team.

I actually think this right here is proof that team builder DOES work to prevent toxicity. If that maokai had been playing blind, his team and the opponent's team might've been flaming him, too. As it was, they took his side. It wasn't nearly as bad of an experience for Maokai, and the flamer knew it was his fault for not looking.

It's much easier to mute that one guy who didn't look at his team comp before readying up, than to mute an entire team of people who are angry with you.

Now, there are other reasons why team builder is lacking, but being a socially bad place to break the meta, is not one of them.

Shynkle3 votes

Because, after all...

Dunkrius2g3 votes

If it is normals, then that should be no problem. Ranked is a different issue

IcyPepper3 votes

Your only allowed to build tank shen.

Oh I'm sorry, let me check Riot's rules on building cham—Oh wait, there isn't.

I hear ya, man. I jungle Raka and Morgana on occasion due to boredom, and it's fun. Hell, sometimes you can even break the meta to bait people (people love invading my jungle as Raka, but then I silence and root them for my nearby laner to get a free kill). Ambulance OP.

Soliox3 votes

While i agree that the community is pretty terribad, i strongly disagree with your argument about normals. They're really just practice for ranked. Normals are where I would go to practice new champs and new roles, for laning phase as well as group phase. I don't get much legitimate practice if we have a completely incoherent team comp or someone has the "lol its just normals" mentality. For me, a huge portion of the fun of video games comes from learning them and playing them properly. If i want relaxed, casual fun with friends, I'll play an aram, which i have over 1k games in where, while i'm having fun, I am also learning new champions at the same time.

Summoner's Rift just isn't the map nor game mode for someone to pull out a pick in a role they've never played it in before just because they saw somebody do it on a stream or something. I don't want to play a game that can easily take up 40+ minutes of my time because somebody just had to try Riven jungle even though they've never played her before.

Akeydel2 votes

Unless you've been banned or had some other OFFICIAL punishment for picking off-meta champs, there is no use complaining to Riot. The "shittiest community of any game" hasn't been supported by them, and they have been making lots of efforts to improve it. If you're bothered by flaming that much, it might be worth it to you to sacrifice communication and auto-mute everyone

Occams Raiser2 votes

Trust that this guy wasn't communicating with his team in the first place. Unless typing "TROLLOLOLOLOLOLL" is communication.

RAT IN GAME UwU 2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Scyther KR,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=TjL5hA2X,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-06T12:52:43.707+0000)

This is for all you AP Poppy mid mains. This is for the guy who likes playing Heimerdinger jungle. This is for that lovely lady who mains LeBlanc support. This is for the people who actually try to have fun.

At its core, League of Legends is a video game. Video games were invented to be fun. They were created for the sole purpose of coming home after a long day of work/school or whatever and to just relax. Video games are fun.

Based on the fact that a video game is supposed to be some form of entertainment. Whether it be a challenge to conquer, like Dark Souls, an open world, your's to create and shape, like Minecraft, a world where you decide how you play and fight, like Skyrim, or even something as simple as sitting back and enjoying so blasting people faces in with some buddies, like Call of Duty. Some games, like Hearthstone, are casual experiences meant for your free time, others are a journey, meant to twist and manipulate your emotions, and really feel like you're there, like the Last of Us.

League of Legends does not offer any of those. The only challenge is trying to come together with 4 people who probably hate you and try to beat an enemy team. The entire time you are guaranteed almost every time to have at least one of those 9 strangers be a complete and utter asshole. Often there is no fun, because if you try to have fun (even in normals or Urf for fuck's sake) people always get mad at you. You can't sit back and play Leona top, or else clearly you're trolling. Any time you want to have fun that isn't just playing some flavor of the month broken champion, you get flamed. And reported.

I just got done playing a game of Attack Speed Shen jungle. Sounds weird right? It is. But it's pretty fun. Keep in mind this was a normal game. After the game ended the enemy Trundle said "Shen your trash," in which I simply just stated that I was trying to have fun, after all, what's the point of tryharding in a normal game, if I wanted to do that I'd go play Kha'Zix or Hecarim in ranked. He replied with something along the lines of "No you're just raging because you suck and can't play this game. You build AD Shen because you're trash. Your only allowed to build tank shen." Meanwhile the enemy Sejuani was just laughing the entire time saying things like "Haha. LOL. Rekt."

The point of this long and convoluted story is that this game's community is utter trash. This community has less of a sense of compassion than Adolf Hitler, and that is not a joke nor hyperbole. This community is full of prepubescent 12 year olds who do nothing but flame others all day. People may say "just mute them" but even muting everyone in the game doesn't help when afterwards they can still talk to you and report you for pretty much anything and because people 9x report you, you're the one getting banned. Because you wanted to try something fun. Because you decided "I wonder how AP Rammus is," or you wanted to try out full AP Nami.

By far this is the shittiest community of any game I have ever played. Ever. Of all time. Everyone is so obsessed with meta and who is OP and how to gain ELO or just flat out win games, they never stopped to think if they were even having fun. Imagine a new player coming into this game. I made a smurf account to play with my friend who was new, so we wouldn't get paired with people at my level so he gets stomped. People, at level 5-10 are so god damn toxic. There's so many smurfs now. I don't remember it being this bad when I started about a year and a half ago. My friend got flamed because he wasn't a smurf. Are you shitting me? You play on a low level account and expect to not get paired with people who are low level? And go on to call them a troll because they're fucking new to the game?

This community needs a change Riot, or else your fanbase will begin to die off. It's growth will stop pretty soon if so many people keep making low level accounts and flame at level 5. Then the others will leave because of the same people flaming in high levels. Muting isn't enough, this community is garbage.

Noski72 votes

agree completely, my freind went top vi, did very well, but our alistar got pissed at him.

KaisadiIIa2 votes

Vi was designed to be top. It's nothing that crazy D:

More from [ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

More by Visigoth