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Season 5 Jungle makes me not want to play any more

Kikirino·2/2/2015, 1:42:33 AM·10 votes·3,110 views

I have played for almost 5 years. I played Jungle > Top > Fill the last two seasons ending Gold 1 this year. I used to love jungling. You have the power to snowball your entire team. You influence the entire map. You create pressure, get your team kills, give carries buffs/dragon, and deny the enemy carries their buffs. It is so much fun having such a noticeable impact on a match.

However, this Season's jungle is the sole reason I have not touched rank yet. Riot has admitted it is not finished yet. They expect us to compete and climb in an unfinished role. On top of that the new jungle camps make early game hell on most champions' health and mana late game. Take Mao as example; he might have the sustain/tank to survive early jungle camps safely but mid/late game he either spends most of his mana on one camp or wastes a ton of time clearing it. This has the jungle champion pool so fucking restricted.

Let's keep going though. How about the 100g price increase for first smite upgrade. Sounds good in theory: If a jungler happens to get first blood they can no longer base and start off with upgraded smite and snowball out of control. Great... except that hurt EVERY SINGLE JUNGLE CHAMP in the unlikely scenario that they get first blood instead of just nerfing the problem champions. Say I pick Zac jungle and get first blood and get upgraded smite. Awesome! I am now MAYBE on par with current top jungle picks with machete. But wait! I still lack the snowball potential they have. So... what was solved here? Top picks can't snowball harder. What was hurt? Everything that is not top pick. How about you nerf the problem champs instead of the ENTIRE FUCKING POOL! Every single champion you pick in jungle now has a riskier and less rewarding first clear. Doesn't matter if you are top tier or trash tier. Why? We are now spending 100 more gold on an upgrade instead of wards and pots for ganks. You know, those things we are expected to do.

Let's keep digging shall we? If you have lost interest you are free to leave. We will continue without you. Dragon now gives

  1. 6% AD and AP
  2. +15% damage to structures
  3. +5% movement speed
  4. +15% damage to minions and monsters
  5. Doubles all previous bonuses and your attacks burn for 150 true damage over 5 seconds (180 second uptime).

Again, these buffs sound good but then you realize that these buffs benefit your carries more than you (but not till later and only if they are ahead... 6% is not going to make or break any lane in the early levels), don't really help you in the jungle (that place where only a small handful thrive...) until 4th kill, are late game oriented and your goal is to get your team to snowball early and in no way benefit tank jungles. Yeah... those sad fuckers still exist. You just never see them because they got the shaft. Think about it. Who does buffs one two and four benefit more? Someone who gets Warrior enchant or Juggernaut? Add 6% ad/15% damage to an item that gives ad and pen or 6% ad/15% damage to... health... 6%/15% x 0 = 0 benefit. Sure that 6% hits your base numbers but if you don't add much to those base number then you are only getting 6% of your base ad/ap whereas current top picks get 6% base stats and the damage items they build.

Riot says they want to add variety to the jungle. GOOD! I want that as well. But everything you are doing contradicts your desire to add diversity in both builds and champion picks. WW was doing too much with Skirmisher's so we better nerf... Skirmisher's? So... nerf everyone that used that item instead of the problem champion? Poacher's knife... Why would anyone buy that? Camps take longer to kill and hurt more than ever. I am sure your best bet is to fight those buffed camps in enemy territory. Sure, the enemy jungle probably has vision control and his team is more likely to get to you before your team does but that is soooo worth 20g. Only need to steal 5 camps to cover that first upgrade cost! That removes half of your jungle item paths.

Diversity and variety does not mean either pick one of 5 champions or be gimped with a subpar pick. It does not mean nerf the entire jungle pool because a few of those 5 must picks were too good. It does not mean to make sure dragon buffs more or less ignore tanks. Believe it or not, some of us loved the jungle and these changes make some of us hate what we used to enjoy. Believe it or not, some of us enjoy champions like Elise, Zac, Sejuani, Rammus, Shyvana, Skarner and Cho'gath.

14 Comments

Shinjusuke2/2/2015, 1:54:20 AM3 votes

I feel the same way you do about a lot of what you've said, it's almost as if none of the Rioters on the balance team are junglers (scratch that: It's as if every Rioter on the balance team is a Lee Sin main).

I'm hoping a couple months into the ranked season, things will have improved, but it might just be blind optimism at this point..

Thresh Outta Fux2/2/2015, 2:49:11 AM2 votes

I like playing Nautilus in the jungle. I've found that timing your health pot and your red smite based on your Second Wind mastery buff to be able to finish the entire jungle with just one pot, and correct smites.

However, this is ridiculously annoying and slows my jungle clear because i have to stop and speed up for this exact timer.

But back on topic, this is absolutely ridiculous. You're punishing a class of 30 or 40, based on the actions of 2 or 3. Stupid.

Bemapon2/2/2015, 2:47:02 AM1 votes

I dont play Rammus or Cho'gath but all the others I actually find much easier to jungle in the new jungle. The only problem I have with Shyvana is running out of camps to clear. Zacs passive sustain makes him able to do a full clear from lvl 1. Skarner Zac Sejuani and Shyvana all have enough AOE to be able to clear quite quickly.

Also item 3713 makes it a lot easier to sustain if you are having trouble. I dont tend to use it, I normally get either item 3715 oritem 3706 .

Personally I think you are looking at it wrong. The junglers you say are the top picks are the carry junglers. Zac Sejuani and Skarner are more of utility junglers. They should be more focused on snowballing the carries than on snowballing themselves.

I dont see why you think Shyvana is weaker. Her ganks are not spectacular, but they wernt in the old jungle either. She farms then walks out of the jungle a monster. From personal experience she relies on her lanes to not lose terribly.

I have jungled many champions. Including some that really should never be junglers. Even these unconventional picks i have never really had too much trouble in the new jungle.

Except as vlad. Dont jungle him please. Its not a fun experience.

Cenobite Azaziel2/2/2015, 4:11:13 AM1 votes

The main problem is that ANY laner has more impact in the game. Jungler is the hunger boy of lol roles. No cash, no exp, has to put some money in so he can jungle and won't matter at all late game.. Yeah... Start the game with a handicap. I used to like and main jungle. Now I fill any other roles. Hell , I played games as the jungler that the lanes go kills that any jungle interference would result ina double /triple kill, while I was afk farming.

Jungle is only effective VS the people that won't use trinket/upgrade it and vision wards.

Xtremey2/2/2015, 5:06:01 PM1 votes

If anything i feel the jungle is in a better spot right now due t the smite swapping. this way tanks can get trailblazer and once the have enough gold to finish juggernaut, can go back and swap for chilling smite.

blueberrypancake2/2/2015, 5:34:53 PM1 votes

If you hate jungling then go top. Its not that hard. Champs like Jarvan, Lee, Cho'gath (I've had mild success in Ranked, however I think Cho mid is a ton fun). Zac. Rammus (who needs tp when we got homeguards xD), Sejuani (who i personally think is fine in new jungle), Elise (originally was a solo laner and deals % health) can all played top.

Daddy McNuggets2/2/2015, 6:11:10 PM1 votes

The problem the new rito map has is that if you get the first dragon, just guessing, you're going to have a 70% chance to win unless you get a dc feeder flamer or troll. I hate how riot has made the new rift all surrounded by dragon.

Newb the Legend2/3/2015, 3:02:19 AM1 votes

Surprisingly enough, I like this jungle better than before, but I also dislike it for some reasons. It's kinda a love/hate relationship.

I really like that every camp has buffs that can be gained, I also like the bigger variety that junglers can get, I honestly keep my jungling items instead of selling them in the end now.

What I hate. . . . . That the chickens take me by the hips and do what they wish with me every time. This isn't Legend of Zelda, Riot. Please.

Trostani1301302/2/2015, 2:33:34 AM1 votes

at the same time, the early jungle hurts so much that squishy junglers can't do much either.

I think Riot is trying to change the jungler as a role with this new jungle. For instance, some players no longer take buff camps first, and instead go for mini golems for the stun on the buff camps. So the buff camp you would get 2nd in S4 as your third camp is now your first buff camp but still the third camp so you have smite again. This slows the jungle down, but also can prevent camp stealing early.

Jungling still goes for the same goals, but different ways. Also, dragon buff helps the other team members more because the jungler is in essence a support role (imho), that's why tank junglers are the best (imho). However, this slower jungling with less buff camps and no leash hurts slow junglers, kicking some out. Now champs need to be broken to be a good junglers, there are no more broken junglers, just broken champs being good junglers.

At the same time, this kind of reflects the Summoner's Fist, does it not? the rugged unknown between lanes is a place only few dare to inhabit. What doesn't make sense is why tank jungler's don;t work anymore, I also love tank junglers (item 3070 Zac). I'm sorry that you do not like hte new jungle, I'm trying to be optimistic

P.S. Razorbeaks got a huge buff.