Is there even any point TRYING to carry a losing bot lane?

Bruddah Mase·Aug 12, 2014·2 votes·510 views

now that ad carries are stacked up again and nothing can stop them, when your bot lane loses the game is just irretrievable.

not only does the enemy support/carry duo have the ability to sweep your entire team under total safety with all the peel supports and carries have now, but it means your bot lane is worse than the enemy bot lane, basically ensuring that you can't win the game because your bot lane won't make decisions like theirs.

Seriously, carry items are overpowered as hell again, once again proving riot's bias

5 Comments

Kao AtlantisAug 12, 20141 votes

The best thing to do if you start getting behind bot, is to play safe and farm up. And make sure if a team-fight breaks out, the enemy marksman is the first to be focused. The problem comes when they get to sit behind their tank line getting their DPS off and shredding the team.

SunfieldAug 12, 20141 votes

Depends. But sure as hell its harder to camp a lane with two fed enemies instead of one.

And no, carry items arent overpowered.

MrSc0ttyAug 12, 20141 votes

Just a question:what about new carry items do you think have supports more peel? What about anything have supports more peel?

Other than the fact that people are using different supports that is. Alistar, Morgana and Janna are probably the "Peelingest" supports and they've been around forever, they're just coming back into favor now that the Zyra/Annie/Blitz/Fidd initiation support fotm is dying down.

It is possible that this dominant meta is a counter to champs like Master Yi and other low utility melee champions. Have you considered trying out a champ with a strong ranged initiate, like Fizz with his E or even Olaf who could just ignore the peel cc and build thornmail?

Or is everything ruined forever and you can't play again until riot fixes it?

ploki122Aug 12, 20141 votes

what about new carry items do you think have supports more peel? What about anything have supports more peel?

Support picks are probably indeed part of the reason; Braum, Thresh, Leona and Morgana, which are by far the 4 most picked are able to stop anyone's aggression and turn it onto you if you're alone. They are all mechanically easy and extremely punishing.

Otherwise, I must agree that I also feel bot lane snowballs harder than before, but I can't quite grasp why. I'll go on a limb and say that it's because of the BT rework. Basically, once the enemy carry gets ahead, in the best case scenario he'll have a BFS to your pickaxe (orBFS+pick to BFS). The early item build is pretty much set in stone, since early BT is said to be terrible (I never understood ADC itemization, all I know is that a flat shiv rush feels bad). On top of that, IE gives more actual combat boost than the old (scaling) BT, which makes that first chasm wider.

It is possible that this dominant meta is a counter to champs like Master Yi and other low utility melee champions.

If only it was so. The rise of Thresh/Braum/Leona is extremely easy to explain : they're better than others (for Braum I didn't follow his last series of nerf, he may be slightly more in line now). The rise of Morgana is because although she isn't much better than others (still better than average imo) she directly counters the FotM. Then, you have Nami who can be picked as a soft-Morgana.

Have you considered trying out a champ with a strong ranged initiate, like Fizz with his E or even Olaf who could just ignore the peel cc and build thornmail?

Olaf + Thornmail will still struggle killing an ADC that's covered by Braum/Thresh/Morgana, and Leona + ADC can probably still kill you faster than you kill them.Similarly, while Fizz seems like a good choice at first, we're into a meta of tanky junglers because of the huge presence of CC. You have to be able to go upfront and take some targeted damage, otherwise your Support/ADC/mid is dead.

The biggest difference is that I feel like nothing is lost right now. Yes, 2v2 the bot lane snowballs harder than before, but you can still gank it quite easily until it's 4/0 or more (which usually comes after a couple minutes of warnings).

ploki122Aug 12, 20141 votes

As a support main, I don't feel like it's that bad. I do get the feeling that snowballing is more present than before, but it's nothing unstoppable. Unless you bot lane got clearly countered. they should be able to play safe and/or turn it around with a gank. Obviously, it means the jungler must understand the matchup (which is why I always state how my lane should be going at the start of the game), and react accordingly based on future insights.

The last game I was in that the jungler came and we still couldn't do much is in a game where I said that the game would snowball one way or the other, and I called for helps 4.31 minutes in. Everybody shrugged it off since the cs was only 20-24 as Tristana vs Lucian(?). Well, the jugnler came when their bot was 8/0. My adc was 0/5 or 0/6, constantly eating whatever Leona threw her way and I had no real way to stop her since Leona had gotten a few kills making her an early Raid Boss.

In every other cases, as long as you understand what all 5 champions can do (4 bot + you) and communicate accordingly, you should be able to turn it around even 4/0 (after that it gets really rough, but it also gets kinda late).