Am I the only one finding it hilarious that the minute mages are becoming strong again...

Marshbouy·Jul 3, 2016·14 votes·1,385 views

There are posts ranting about how OP certain mages are even when they are completely balanced?

55 Comments

doiminat0r3600Jul 3, 20168 votes

When a Swain can out sustain an ADC late game, something is wrong.

MarshbouyJul 3, 20162 votes

im talking about dumb shit like claiming rylais is breaking every champion in the game.

doiminat0r3600Jul 3, 20162 votes

It provides a lot of utility, damage, and health tbh.

It would be better if they actually didn't have every item for AP champions having 100 AP (except voidstaff and liandry's)

MarshbouyJul 3, 20162 votes

only 4 items (to my knowledge) give 100 ap. Everything else gives below that (other than rabadons.)

doiminat0r3600Jul 3, 20162 votes

item 3165 item 3116 item 3041 (fully stacked) item 3285 Every other essential item for a mage is 80 AP.

The rest are either meant for tanks, hybrid carries, or supports.

RatbertJul 3, 20165 votes

TFW rabadons is not longer essential for a mage.

doiminat0r3600Jul 3, 20162 votes

Which is why I didn't mention it.

It's 100% optional if you want to get that extra oomph in your damage.

macromiteJul 3, 20169 votes

I mean, that's kind of what swain is meant to do.

it's like saying that because an adc has more attack speed than a mage they are broken.

doiminat0r3600Jul 5, 20162 votes

ADCs are supposed to be able to self sustain (many times getting 50-100 HP per auto) with fast auto attacks.

macromiteJul 5, 20161 votes

some mages are meant to have good auto speed. still doesn't change that fact that adc's should have more.

doiminat0r3600Jul 5, 20161 votes

They might have good auto speed but don't build AD and Life Steal. They dont get 50-100 lifesteal 2 times a second late game.

Swain gets health for every bird hit and mana for every last hit. If they are allowed to get 100+ health 3-5 times a second when he builds mainly tank, then there is something wrong.

macromiteJul 5, 20162 votes

No, you just don't grasp the concept of a character that plays differently from your poorly conceived architype. Swain is a drain tank. his whole shtick is the healing nonsense.

Pierce The VealJul 5, 20164 votes

{quoted}

ADCs are supposed to be able to self sustain (many times getting 50-100 HP per auto) with fast auto attacks.

They're not meant to, no.

Swain, on the other hand, is made to be a spellvamping monstrosity.

doiminat0r3600Jul 5, 20161 votes

Then what are ADCs supposed to do?

They do massive amounts of AD with a sustain in the item or 2 so they can actually survive getting hit by an AOE attack or a stray bullet. They are meant to do the damage but they can't do it without sustain.

Pierce The VealJul 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Then what are ADCs supposed to do?

They do massive amounts of AD with a sustain in the item or 2 so they can actually survive getting hit by an AOE attack or a stray bullet. They are meant to do the damage but they can't do it without sustain.

They are meant to pick off people from afar, and kill towers, not have the luxury to take "an aoe attack or a stray bullet" and heal it right back like nothing happened.

doiminat0r3600Jul 5, 20161 votes

Marksman are supposed to pick off people from a distance (not that far of a distance). They are meant to pick people off and not be touched, but are they supposed to be sitting ducks against melee attackers? Are they supposed to be able to kill 4 squishies and a tank whilst being targeted by the enemy team and walk out with most of their health?

Maybe with good positioning but they aren't supposed to be able to sit in one spot and right click to survive without some form of sustain (lifesteal).

Edit: If they were the only ones meant to kill towers efficiently, then why can late game mages chunk towers and inhibs like theyre nothing?

Pierce The VealJul 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Marksman are supposed to pick off people from a distance (not that far of a distance). They are meant to pick people off and not be touched, but are they supposed to be sitting ducks against melee attackers? Are they supposed to be able to kill 4 squishies and a tank whilst being targeted by the enemy team and walk out with most of their health?

Maybe with good positioning but they aren't supposed to be able to sit in one spot and right click to survive without some form of sustain (lifesteal).

Edit: If they were the only ones meant to kill towers efficiently, then why can late game mages chunk towers and inhibs like theyre nothing?

While I understand some sustain, they shouldn't be outsustaining a drain tank. And they also shouldn't be outsustaining a melee carry.

The point is, they shouldn't be able to eat their cake and have it too. Too bad with crit, attack speed, range, and tons of ad, plus AD items with copious amounts of lifesteal, we have to deal with sustain gods with each auto attack being stronger than a mage spell. Ahem, show me just how many mages have 1000 damage spells.

As for mages chunking towers, it's because Rito thought it was a good idea, but also because the midlaner shouldn't be absolutely useless if he scored an ace but he's the last one alive on the team.

Think about it, while ADCs are the turret killers, if they were the only ones who were capable of doing it both teams wouldn't even have to do anything other than focus fhe adc. Enemy team has 3 people alive but you got aced? No problem you got their adc.

Not to mention ADCs are the best objective killers.

doiminat0r3600Jul 6, 20161 votes

Veigar Velkoz Swain Nidalee Jhin Galio Nunu Vladimir Zed Talon All can reach 1000 damage in one or 2 spells.

You can say that they have range but a lot of mages have range as well. A lot are built around controlling them and keeping the enemy at a distance whilst having 1000+ AP. Mages don't have reliable healing options.

ZT XperimentorJul 6, 20161 votes

Who plays jihn as magic? Likewise zed & talon are physical ASSASSINS.

doiminat0r3600Jul 6, 20161 votes

You don't have to play an AP champion for them to not be considered a mage. Look at Ez. He does mixed damage (primarily AP but is still played bot lane) but could be considered a physical damage spell caster (AD Mage).

Anyone that casts spells or abilities for a lot of their damage could be considered a mage.

ZT XperimentorJul 6, 20161 votes

By that logic you could play kayle as a marksmen since she relies mostly on auto-attacks; but again who does that? Nobody, for two reasons; it's impractical due to taking a while to get her the right items, and from the meta-maniacs making the game environment so hostile to anything outside of the standard.

When I say mage, I'm referring to champions that deal near exclusively magic damage; of your examples veigar, swain, velkoz, & vladimir are spot on. Champions that just rely on abilities can be in the net group of casters, such as zed & ezreal.

I don't remember where at the moment, but I made a comment on how marksmen could be split into two groups, casters & auto-attackers; ezreal & corki being examples of casters, while vayne & sivir as examples of auto-attackers. Which I classify them from how they deal their damage, not what damage they deal, mostly from riot mixing several things together these days.

IceKingChernobogJul 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

When a can out sustain an ADC late game, something is wrong.

when he becomes unkillable by lvl 6 it's a problem

TNHA BaritoneJul 3, 20164 votes

Same with supports. It's actually rather amusing how juggernauts, and marksmen had their moment of shine.......

doiminat0r3600Jul 3, 20163 votes

Supports just get tossed around really. If they're strong, they're on accident. If they're weak, it's on accident. Nothing with them is on purpose unless Riot directly changes them.

TNHA BaritoneJul 3, 20161 votes

It's not like it's an actually role right? XD

doiminat0r3600Jul 3, 20162 votes

Well, from a support main, they are probably the most crucial role in the game. Filling the gaps of burst, utility, and even just flat out sustain on the team.

TNHA BaritoneJul 3, 20161 votes

I know, I was being sarcastic

macromiteJul 3, 20163 votes

what you said has reminded me of something that I posted recently.

a zoologist is calling an astronomist stupid because he doesn't know the genus of cat he's looking at, and the meteorologist is laughing at them both because they don't realise that it's about to rain, and the botanist is yelling at the meteorologist because he's standing under a death tree.

Zoologist is top, astronomist is jungle, meteorologist is adc, botanist is support, genus of cat is lane dynamic, rain is the enemy team collapsing, death tree is tower without allied minions.

All the lanes are very different, and while you might seem like you're more crucial because you are good at yours, what you're role does doesn't necessarily translate.

doiminat0r3600Jul 3, 20161 votes

Considering that Mid lane is just sorta there for damage (generally AP) and ADC is actually there for damage (AD), top lane is generally a tank/bruiser, and jungle is for map pressure objectives. Support has most of the team's utility 90% of the time.

Pierce The VealJul 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Considering that Mid lane is just sorta there for damage (generally AP) and ADC is actually there for damage (AD), top lane is generally a tank/bruiser, and jungle is for map pressure objectives. Support has most of the team's utility 90% of the time.

And what usually ends up happening is the team that has CC outside of the support role wins.

doiminat0r3600Jul 3, 20161 votes

It's not just CC. It's survivability. If your team has a Volibear Swain Vladimir Soraka Jinx , you're gonna have a tough time killing them without GW (which has less than easily built build paths tbh)

macromiteJul 4, 20161 votes

Mid is generally the team's source of burst, so they serve as the team's anti champion. it is in their hands to make sure the fed enemy dies. they also tend to be the team's source of waveclear, and hold the best position other than jungle for giving top or bot relief. they are an important asset in all those regards.

Adc is generally the team's best source of sustained damage, so they serve as the team's anti objective. it is in their hands to make sure that after fights your team secures an objective or two. they also tend to be the team's source of cleanup, and hold the team's safest position even during mid and late game due to this. they are an important asset in all those regards.

Top is generally the team's best multitool, so they serve as whatever the team needs them to be. It is in their hands to make sure that your team has all the tools it needs to succeed. they also tend to hold teleport, and therefore tend to be the best splitters and anti splitters throughout the game. they are an important asset through the game due to this.

Jungle is generally the team's pressure builder, so they serve as the team's anti everything. It is in their hands to make sure that the enemy doesn't gain ground without losing it somewhere else. they also tend to be their team's best objective securers, and hold the best ganking position to snowball lanes. they are an important asset in all those regards.

There is no one stat that shows one position as being better than the others. they all have different jobs.

Just because the baker can make better bread than the butcher doesn't mean that you don't still need both.

Pierce The VealJul 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Supports just get tossed around really. If they're strong, they're on accident. If they're weak, it's on accident. Nothing with them is on purpose unless Riot directly changes them.

No, even when Riot directly changes them, 95% of the things that happen are accidents.

Handin Out NapsJul 3, 20164 votes

Am I the only one finding it hilarious that mages have been strong the entire season, but the boards like to act like they haven't?

MarshbouyJul 3, 20162 votes

there is a fairly large difference between completely dominant and "strong". I can see how you would get that mixed up.

Handin Out NapsJul 3, 20163 votes

So who exactly would you say has been completely dominant in the mid lane this season if mages haven't?

MarshbouyJul 3, 20161 votes

ad assassins. ADCs even. according to the boards at least.

Handin Out NapsJul 3, 20161 votes

The only relevant ad assassin was Zed, and he was only picked as a counter pick in pro play. I will give you adc's but that wasn't even close to most of the season. The boards have no clue what they are talking about most of the time, there is a reason this place was dubbed the name "Gameplay and Bronze". Mages have been picked and have performed well the entire season, please dont act like they were ever bad.

MarshbouyJul 3, 20161 votes

okay.

Lysdexic1Jul 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So who exactly would you say has been completely dominant in the mid lane this season if mages haven't?

Have you not seen zed's pick/ban rate all season? Oh wait looks at your name

Handin Out NapsJul 3, 20162 votes

Take a look at pro play. Zed was only picked as a counterpick to Azir (The champion that shoved a shit ton of other champions out of the meta.), and some adc mids for the short time that they were a thing. And Zeds winrate was never anything that can be claimed as "completely dominant".

Lysdexic1Jul 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Take a look at pro play. Zed was only picked as a counterpick to Azir (The champion that shoved a shit ton of other champions out of the meta.), and some adc mids for the short time that they were a thing. And Zeds winrate was never anything that can be claimed as "completely dominant".

Pro play is not the be-all-end-all of viability and dominance. His winrate is also artificially low right now because when he slips through banning phase people that don't even know how to play him say sweet the OP pick is free, pick him and proceed to lose horribly.

Handin Out NapsJul 3, 20163 votes

Please stop with that bullshit excuse of why Zed has a low winrate. Zed has a low winrate because he just isn't good anymore. He gets outclassed by everything else, and if you dont believe me go ahead and look at the stats.

Winrate by games played: 1-5: 46.09% 5-15: 42.49% 15-50: 44.59% 50-125: 49.58% 125+: 51.24%

Average games played: 69.58

http://champion.gg/champion/Zed

He only ever crosses a 50% winrate after 125+ games played, just do yourself a favor and get rid of that terrible reasoning that everyone has been trying to use against Zed. He legit only has a positive winrate in 5 matchups and they are only positive by like 1.5%.

Lysdexic1Jul 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Please stop with that bullshit excuse of why Zed has a low winrate. Zed has a low winrate because he just isn't good anymore. He gets outclassed by everything else, and if you dont believe me go ahead and look at the stats.

Winrate by games played: 1-5: 46.09% 5-15: 42.49% 15-50: 44.59% 50-125: 49.58% 125+: 51.24%

Average games played: 69.58

http://champion.gg/champion/Zed

He only ever crosses a 50% winrate after 125+ games played, just do yourself a favor and get rid of that terrible reasoning that everyone has been trying to use against Zed. He legit only has a positive winrate in 5 matchups and they are only positive by like 1.5%.

I just finished looking through all the statistics on the site; the statistics for game wins are concurrent with my hypothesis, with the win rate lowering right after the 6.11 change to zed artificially inflating his ban rate. This may also indicate his overall power was also reduced for people who don't know how to play him properly, once again being concurrent with my hypothesis..... your argument is invalid based on the data you omitted.

YCitizenSnipsYJul 3, 20165 votes

Lux and Ahri ruled the mid lane in solo queue for over a year. And in Pro its been the Viktor and Azir show for ever.

LemurMonsterJul 4, 20161 votes

Do you find being poke to death by these overbearing mage champs... fun...? Zyra

MarshbouyJul 4, 20163 votes

nope. When people were complaining about mages apparently being "underpowered" i made a couple posts telling people about how toxic mages actually are, i got downvoted to hell .

LemurMonsterJul 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

nope. When people were complaining about mages apparently being "underpowered" i made a couple posts telling people about how toxic mages actually are, i got downvoted to hell .

hah I am not surprised at all & now look what happened. Now they are even WORST to deal with. They say Gnar is annoying but nope..... His cool downs are laughably long & mages no.. they can spam over & over again & by the time they run out of mana its too late...

MarshbouyJul 5, 20161 votes

gnars Q is literally on a 0 second cooldown if you get a BC and catch it each time. His other abilities still have fairly long CDs.

LemurMonsterJul 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

gnars Q is literally on a 0 second cooldown if you get a BC and catch it each time. His other abilities still have fairly long CDs.

Yeah but you get punished hard if you do miss it. Cant always get a BC against some match ups. There is a reason why we are forced to build tanky because we still have go in close to attack & gnar pops too easy this season because of the high damage out put. That is why he is having a hard time now.