I don't understand people enabling shitty companies.

Niyumi·Jan 15, 2017·1 votes·456 views

Like, people complain about companies like Activision and EA being greedy, and companies like Riot give no fuck outside of money, even Nintendo is becoming greedy... I just don't understand why people advocate and enable that.

I mean, go back 10-15 years, there were lots of good companies that put out quality products and actually gave a fuck about what they were doing, beyond how much money it made them, and set the standard for the industry. The shitty companies were there, but we laughed them out of the industry since we expected quality, and any F2P cash grab with a cash shop would go under since people refused to be pulled into the scam.

Yet, now the only companies we have are those shitty ones that were laughed at. Why? Why would people willingly throw away quality and actual passion? What do you gain out of it?

19 Comments

DynikusJan 15, 20177 votes

I like how you didn't actually give any argument as to why they're a bad company, or how they're a f2p cash grab. I'm curious how making a completely free to play game, where you literally get no advantage by spending real money, makes riot a passionless low quality greedy company. I feel like you just post to see if you can beat your personal record for the most downvotes from one of your threads.

2 Weezy BabyJan 15, 20175 votes

pls stop playing league then if u don't support Riot.

Colton147Jan 15, 20174 votes

There are still a few good companies out there... Not many though.

Bethesda, Rockstar (even though they're milking GTA Online with micro-transactions and free updates), Valve, etc. are currently on the top of my head.

Riot can also be considered a good company - they really only have one game, so they pretty much have to make money one way or another... And that is through RP (champion skins, ward skins, etc.).

NiyumiJan 15, 20171 votes

And any good company turns corrupt the moment they get a taste of the money. Just how things work now.

As for Riot, no, they're not a good company. They might have been at one point, and the developers themselves (not the executives) might actually care, but the things they do just aren't what a good company would do. When they get out-performed by amateur teams, or a studio's debut game, despite being a multi-billion dollar company... yeah, they're not even trying. When you can do F2P without half-assing your base game and warping it to better suit your crap shop, then you're a decent company. But, that's just not how it works.

DrCyanideJan 15, 20171 votes

When they get out-performed by amateur teams, or a studio's debut game, despite being a multi-billion dollar company... yeah, they're not even trying

Do you have a comparison game/company in mind?

A problem that shows up in the tech industry is having one idea of how your product should work, then as the years go by you realize "Oh, we've got to do this thing we never thought about when we started out," and it takes a lot longer to add it in than it would if you'd designed it that way to begin with. I'm seeing that at my job right now, actually, where we've changed our base product several times to meet what the customer wants, only to have the customer tell us "well, that's close, but we actually want it in this way" and have all that work go to waste or be underutilized for years waiting for the next version. Someone designing the feature from scratch could look at what we missed the mark on and design a better solution from the start, but it takes us more time to change what we've got to meet the new needs.

When you can do F2P without half-assing your base game and warping it to better suit your crap shop, then you're a decent company.

I guess Riot's at least a decent company then, because they've only made changes to make the "crap shop" less critical to gameplay. You can buy an entire page of Tier 2 runes for 30 IP. Yeah, eventually you'll want to move to Tier 3, but Tier 2 is decent enough you could play with it and figure out if you like it before spending more IP.

NiyumiJan 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Do you have a comparison game/company in mind?

Well, look at any MMO, for example, even a dying one like Wildstar. They usually have much less revenue, and much smaller teams, but do so much more work in the same time that Riot does, all of comparable quality. Where Riot has one, tiny, static map and only 137(?) unique models, an MMO has an ENORMOUS map, lots of models and animating, music, voices, sound, all that. Riot is making all this money, but they definitely don't pour much of it into developing their game.

They spend years to rework one champ which includes one model and set of animations, some sound effects, and a bit of voice over. Yet, I've seen amateur teams (I interned at Nintendo and helped out with things, shadowed a team) do the same thing in a week or two -- and usually more than one model.

I can't criticize artists too much, but it definitely doesn't take many months to update splash arts. Maybe a few days per.

Lot of things they do that add up to show how little they care -- but, at the same time, the developers themselves do actually care, and one even took home Dragontrainer Lulu and updated her a bit on his own time without being paid. I respect that, and applaud it, but the slimy suits in charge don't let the devs actually work on the game.

I guess Riot's at least a decent company then, because they've only made changes to make the "crap shop" less critical to gameplay. You can buy an entire page of Tier 2 runes for 30 IP. Yeah, eventually you'll want to move to Tier 3, but Tier 2 is decent enough you could play with it and figure out if you like it before spending more IP.

Except the abysmal state of balance is because of their cash shop. If they actually balanced their game, they wouldn't have FOTM champs they could make skins for and make a lot of money -- and if they didn't rotate the FOTM champs, people wouldn't go out and buy the new broken and skins for it. A balanced game isn't lucrative in F2P, you always have to have something that's OP, or you don't make any money.

Then we have the situations where Riot is working on a skin, the champ isn't quite FOTM, and they buff them through the roof, in order to spike sales. Jinx, Draven, Lux (this was a long process), Garen, Azir, Vi (ignored her, instead of buffed her), and so on.

Sure, you don't have to spend money, but the quality of the game would be so much better if they made changes for the game's sake, rather than money's sake.

DrCyanideJan 15, 20172 votes

I don't really look at MMO's often, since there's only so much "go kill 20 boars, now talk to the guy again and go kill 20 chickens" I can take. The last several I looked at left me thinking "does this thing really add to the value of this place? Does this mob fit here or is it just a model for something you're suppose to kill?" More models/art/animation doesn't mean that they're the right models/art/animation for that situation.

The argument that they buff champions right before they give them skins has always been flaky at best

Gangplank's last balance changes before a skin were a nerf
Braum's last balance changes before a skin were a nerf
Grave's last balance changes before a skin were a nerf
Karma's last balance changes before a skin were a nerf
Karthus's last balance changes before a skin were a nerf
Hecarim's last balance changes before a skin were a nerf
Trundle's last balance changes before a skin were a nerf

Roughly half the skins have buffs before them, and half of them have nerfs before them.

FotM happens whenever patches change things regularly and people try new things out. It's worth pointing out that some of these FotM have absolutely nothing to do with recent changes. Ziggs Bot is happening now because of changes made back in patch 6.9, Support Miss Fortune happened over an odd pick at Worlds, I have no idea what has caused people to start taking Malzahar Support.

The community as a whole holds Riot to a double standard with FotM champions too. "Ugh, X has been FotM too long, gut them!", "What the heck Riot! Y was FotM for such a short time compared to X!".

Hauling AsheJan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't really look at MMO's often, since there's only so much "go kill 20 boars, now talk to the guy again and go kill 20 chickens" I can take. The last several I looked at left me thinking "does this thing really add to the value of this place? Does this mob fit here or is it just a model for something you're suppose to kill?" More models/art/animation doesn't mean that they're the right models/art/animation for that situation.

OMG, this is exactly how I feel about MMOs. I don't have the patience to go through mindless stuff like that just to level up. Either a game is fun or it's a chore.

DrCyanideJan 16, 20171 votes

Either a game is fun or it's a chore.

Funny you should mention that. I've been entertaining the notion of making an 8-bit MMORPG (doubt it'll get far past the basic design, but still) and the name I decided I'd use for those types of missions is "chores", since they're stuff you don't want to do but need to do for some pocket change.

Hauling AsheJan 16, 20171 votes

LOL, at least it's honest advertising.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJan 15, 20172 votes

dude seriously you need to leave the game if you truly think its that awful....

you need to find happiness in life cuz it seems you have zero

NiyumiJan 15, 20171 votes

Trust me when I say that I have no reason whatsoever to be happy. League or no.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJan 15, 20172 votes

i wish you to find some kind of happiness .... no matter what it may be .... but you have to let yourself be happy... let go of the cynical apathy that you have concreted your self into.

NiyumiJan 15, 20171 votes

That's a wish that will likely never come true -- more evident with every day that goes by. ^^

TyrekGoldenspearJan 15, 20172 votes

I don't understand how you can keep on with this tirade.

You provide hyperbole after hyperbole after salt induced hatred towards champs and classes you can't play against, and instead of considering you need improvement, you immediately assume that it's all Riot's fault.

Not to mention you are extremely hypocritical. You list Tristana amonf your favorite champs, yet you say you hate ADCs and want them gutted and say you feel like cheating when you play them.

You mention Camille being balanced then whine about Master Yi, who is arguably much worse than Camille. You play a tanky Camille and try to burst an Ashe that has a gold advantage and lifesteal withiut actually buying burst or anything ti actually explode Ashe, then complain that ADCs are busted.

You take showers in MF ults and think you should survive just becuase you stacked armor.

Please, just stop.

NiyumiJan 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You provide hyperbole after hyperbole after salt induced hatred towards champs and classes you can't play against, and instead of considering you need improvement, you immediately assume that it's all Riot's fault.

I've got over 6,000 games put into League at this point. If I couldn't play against any class or champ, that'd be pathetic. And, no, my issue is that, even when I do everything perfectly on my end, but still lose because of something like Lifesteal or the unmissable auto attacks that do 3/4 my health a second for no good reason at all.

Not to mention you are extremely hypocritical. You list Tristana amonf your favorite champs, yet you say you hate ADCs and want them gutted and say you feel like cheating when you play them.

Yeah, I enjoy her playstyle jumping around. But, when I win with Trist, or Jax, or Teemo, or Annie, any ADC, or so many other champs, I feel like I'm cheating, and don't really deserve to win. I play them, so I know that they're too strong for how easy they are, and I know that they need to be tuned way down. Even if Trist was weak, I'd still enjoy playing her.

You mention Camille being balanced then whine about Master Yi, who is arguably much worse than Camille. You play a tanky Camille and try to burst an Ashe that has a gold advantage and lifesteal withiut actually buying burst or anything ti actually explode Ashe, then complain that ADCs are busted.

Camille has so many windows for you to escape her damage, where Yi is just a big stat check or a test of how long you can CC lock one person.

And, when an ADCs weakness is supposed to be their 1v1 and being caught out, you'd think that a Camille who does 4000+ damage in the time I fought that Ashe would be able to win the fight, but, because of Lifesteal, she literally just stood there and autod me to win -- totally circumventing her supposed weakness of being caught out and fought alone.

You take showers in MF ults and think you should survive just becuase you stacked armor.

I mean, I would expect to live for more than 0.8 seconds as a Rammus with over 500 armor in an entirely physical attack. But I guess that's too logical.

Please, just stop.

If kids didn't enable F2P, and actually held greedy assholes in check, then I wouldn't have to complain or make threads. If I had any other game I could play for a long amount of time without burning out, I wouldn't even be playing League, save for with family.

I don't particularly like complaining and making people hate me, but I also don't like watching greedy executives destroy good games for money.

Hauling AsheJan 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I mean, go back 10-15 years [...] and any F2P cash grab with a cash shop would go under since people refused to be pulled into the scam.

Except... didn't Riot kind of pioneer F2P? There wasn't much else around. Second Life, maybe.

And League of Legends is actually 100% free if you want it to be. Sure, it can take a while to save up for runes (a problem, I'll agree) or champs, but you are not forced to buy anything with real money ever.

NiyumiJan 15, 20171 votes

You're not forced to buy anything, I won't argue that. But scroll down a bit, where I replied to DrCyanide. That's the issue with F2P in League.