I would like to kindly remind people that even though vayne has a 20% playrate

Marshbouy··2 votes·1,061 views

Her avg. games played are 123.74. that means that she is having old mains come back and play her, people who have had a lot of practice with this champion. Does that mean she still needs nerfs? maybe. probably yes. This does mean that if you saw a vayne carrying in the last game, they were most likely a very experienced vayne player. AKA better than you.

oh i'm sorry downvoters from the fog of war... did i offend you with my statistics?

36 Comments

warpenguin5551 votes

When a champion is as unfun to play against as vayne they deserve nerfs regardless of experience. ADC's should not be able to take 3/4 of your health with 1 hit

Marshbouy1 votes

Does that mean she still needs nerfs? maybe.

or maybe you could build defensive items.

zlumpy2 votes

That just prolongs the inevitable seeing as she also can do true damage. The best counter is death but she is just too good at avoiding it while dealing that same most effective status ailment back to the opponent.

Marshbouy1 votes

You could build item 3143 item 3110 item 3047 and whatever else you would like.

She will be dealing almost no damage outside of her true damage to you. Even her true damage will be nerfed because of the AS slow.

Or... you could just bitch and moan about her like everyone else every time she breaks a 50% winrate.

zlumpy1 votes

Those are so so items for a tank that still dont help. But what about every other champ hmmm? I geuss every champ should buy those now when a vayne is on the other team? Everyone has to gimp their play potential just because vayne exists? People have used these items as an argument like they ever matter when there is only one real counter to vayne: force her out of the game, cc her into oblivion, and hope to god to can finish a game before she gets her items.

Marshbouy2 votes

I'm amazed. I am truly amazed. You literally just stated that counter building a champion isn't a real counter to that champion...

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

yet when i offer ways to counter play champs via picks/bans. team comps. lane swaps. items builds. game strats i get told im stupid and know nothingabout the game cuz champ A should be able to beat champ B no matter what and if my champ A cant champ B is unfair and has no counter play...

people through the same argument with annie as well

zlumpy1 votes

Thats because in vaynes case its true. You can counter other champs with items sure. Not vayne though. She has the tools in her kit to out play any item you buy.

So you can either cc her to death or you can bring a champ with invuln ult.

Big Lincoln1 votes

it's not really a counter build if it only delays your death by 2 autos

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

item 3046 vs champs who use attack speed and crit will help reduce damage taken from vayne

item 3047 can be bought by any role.. not subjected to only tanks

item 3110 aura that debuffs attack speed which would help entire team and lower vaynes dps

item 3157 item 3116 common item build on ap champs which provides armor and hp a slow and a active to make them untargetable for 2.5 seconds

you can take summoner 3 vs her regardless of role and helps vs the assassin meta

alot of adcs get item 3026 which provides armor and a passive that brings you back to life... armor lowers vaynes damage

adcs also likely to get item 3072 providing a shield (effective HP ) and lifesteal making them harder to kill.

how many more ways do you want me to go

zlumpy1 votes

And none of that will help. Fact is you just have to be stronger in terms of cs and items than her.

If it is a competant player with the same power level in items she very easily has the upper hand.

Building defense doesnt help against her because it doesn't allow you to live long enough to capitalize on the extra time alive.

Also armor without health doesnt do much because your still losing about the same % of your hp bar. It may be a smaller hit but it is still doing the same amount of dmg % of your total hp.

Atm I know of a couple champs that work ok against her and that has nothing to do with their items. It has to do with an over abundance of cc in their kits.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

And none of that will help. Fact is you just have to be stronger in terms of cs and items than her.

If it is a competant player with the same power level in items she very easily has the upper hand.

Building defense doesnt help against her because it doesn't allow you to live long enough to capitalize on the extra time alive.

Also armor without health doesnt do much because your still losing about the same % of your hp bar. It may be a smaller hit but it is still doing the same amount of dmg % of your total hp.

Atm I know of a couple champs that work ok against her and that has nothing to do with their items. It has to do with an over abundance of cc in their kits. well I disagree all of it will help... but I guess im wrong and vayne is the most broken op champ ever and there is no way to beat her or win against her...

except I have beaten her top lane solo more than once... and when I faced her else where I won 2 of 3 games against a vayne.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

do you want me to list champs that effectively counter vayne too? or list adcs with higher win rates?

warpenguin5551 votes

Mages only get 1 armor item and its a niche buy. Juggernauts get kited so badly it hardly makes a difference. Assassins also have no Armor item, although im debating on building steraks on Talon when normals are playable again. Tanks are useless vs Vayne no matter how much armor you get, plus thornmail isn't a good buy unless you get next to all armor items and let their mage blow you apart. Divers are probably the best bet because they are intended to be able to get to her but she also has her E to push you off and i shouldn't be forced to play Nocturne or Vi jungle every game out of fear of her getting past champ select. Once her ban rate is in the 70-80's maybe Riot will fix her. Until then im banning her out every game and if i dont have a ban and the enemy team picks her, i'll dodge.

Marshbouy1 votes

Mages only get 1 armor item and its a niche buy.

so are you not allowed to build a randuins?

Juggernauts get kited so badly it hardly makes a difference.

that's there largest form of counterplay?

Assassins also have no Armor item, although im debating on building steraks on Talon when normals are playable again.

again, are you not allowed to build randuins or other tank items?

anks are useless vs Vayne no matter how much armor you get, plus thornmail isn't a good buy unless you get next to all armor items and let their mage blow you apart.

that's so untrue. any tank that can land a basic CC spell on her will be incredibly valuable, you also just need to understand how to counterbuild her.

Divers are probably the best bet because they are intended to be able to get to her but she also has her E to push you off and i shouldn't be forced to play Nocturne or Vi jungle every game out of fear of her getting past champ select.

or you could unknow try and fight her with 2 people?

i dont have a ban and the enemy team picks her, i'll dodge.

you are the kind of person i hate.

warpenguin5551 votes

{quoted}

you are the kind of person i hate.

hate it all you want, -3 lp and a 5 minute wait is a better experience than playing against a Vayne by far

Marshbouy1 votes

do you wanna respond to the rest of what i said or nah?

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

so are you not allowed to build a randuins?

Personally I like grabbing dead man's plate for the MS boost better.

Also you're right. Vayne is wreckable but I think the main issue is that people are trying to fight her like they fight every other ADC, despite her also being the best duelist.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

mages typically out range vayne with their abilities and have burst and some cc in their kits... and typically adcs have little to no MR meaning they should be an easier target for any mage to blow up

Marshbouy2 votes

Nah man. Mages blow up tanks but mages can't blow up mages... for... reasons?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

Nah man. Mages blow up tanks but mages can't blow up mages... for... reasons?

actually tanks survive burst damage... they lose to sustain damage

and a mage can blow up a mage

Marshbouy1 votes

I was poking a hole in the guys

plus thornmail isn't a good buy unless you get next to all armor items and let their mage blow you apart.

otherwise you are correct.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

I was poking a hole in the guys

otherwise you are correct.

but no there is no counter play to vayne and we cant win against her oh wait... she dont have a 100% win rate? and her win rate in games past 30mins is #1 why would that be? is it cuz she is a great duelist who is a late game hyper carry champ ?

maybe

Marshbouy1 votes

Maybe, maybe... She also has the highest avg. games played, i'm going to inexplicably downvote the post stating that because i can't handle facts.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

{quoted}

Maybe, maybe... She also has the highest avg. games played, i'm going to inexplicably downvote the post stating that because i can't handle facts.

funny thing is twitch has a 54.53% win rate for #1 at adc not one post about him

Marshbouy1 votes

hmm...

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

another thing to consider... patch 6.22 they change the stats on item 3147 item 3142 which directly nerfed Jhin Lucian MissFortune knocking them down and cait ,vayne, corki YES CORKI and twitch are top 4 adcs in win rate

Marshbouy1 votes

We are going to forget that riot deleted the armor pen builds in favor of QQing more. Does that sound good to you?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

and corki Q stops stealth ... so say you are vs twich and he goes to use his Q if you hit him with your Q as corki it delays his steal so you can see him and damage him... corki is a counter to twitch

Marshbouy1 votes

and vayne too. don't forget all the other assassins too.

JackMcSnipeyz3 votes

Anti fun is a word that's being thrown around waaay to generously these days. Nothing that kills you is fine, being stunned locked by leona isnt fun, getting bursted by vel'koz isnt fun. Do they need nerfs? Nope.

Does vayne need nerfs? Yes, but this "anti fun" argument holds very little ground

Marshbouy1 votes

Does vayne need nerfs? Yes, but this "anti fun" argument holds very little ground

thank you. I would argue that anti fun is a good argument in some cases, but most of the time it's just used as a buzzword.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

typically what it is is majority of the people want their champ to win no matter who the enemy picks or builds... they wanna blindly go through the game just clicking away not having to think of things out side of my champ beats your champ. they want to 1 vs 1 and think that proves skill and knowledge of the game. when a champ seems the slight bit strong for a moment regardless of the champ the boards are flooded with post of tears how its unfair, the are anti fun, toxic to play against, have no counter play. instead of learning and thinking how can I beat this champ? they just want to pick whatever champ into whatever and win and when it don't happen it has to be cause its RIOTS fault that they over buffed , over nerfed , this item is broken etc .

there is always going to be a champ at the top for whatever reason. meta shifts. item changes, direct nerfs/buffs to other champs making a champ strong or weaker vs those champs or indirect buffs/nerfs.. there is no perfect balance in the game and it is impossible. the balance comes from the imbalanced of the game. I know seems stupid. but lets think a bit...

just as people cry that range are unfair for melee champs and range champs cry that melee champs are too tanky and do to much damage. and so one for every type of champ there is.

lets use vayne top vs melee champs ... well yea vayne should win .. but if you happen to play correctly and wait and be safe til she gets a lil ballsy and catch her... you can beat her and win.. ive done it I have won top vs vayne as garen and as malphite

if a champ counters your champ in a lane 1 vs 1 situation then don't try to win lane. be safe, passive wait for a mistake and take advantage of it... but your champ might counter another champ in the enemy team comp, or their team comp in general.

just as an example I played and picked maokai into kayle top lane cuz my team needed a tank with cc and peel . I know I should not win the lane as mao into kayle at all... I played safe didn't give up kills. got the cs I could. and when it came to team fights I was able to be effective at what my role/job was on the team and my team won. me and the kayle chatted a bit back n forth through the game... and I added the player after words .. I then gave him tips on how to play kayle and how to bully his lane more etc. he improved at the champ and at the game and got knowledge about the game. and I really good at the game ? no not by a long shot and never claim to be good. but I do understand a lot about the game and study things in the concepts of the game outside of mechanical play. ( that is my weakest point , partly due to nerve damage in my neck that effect my left hand ) people need to realize this game isn't 1 vs 1 , call of duty , mortal combat, checkers etc

this game is like chess... there are pros and cons to everything you do and don't do in the game. and you have to play to the pros and hide the cons. there are many avenues to winning the game. but in the grand scheme of things its a complex game with multiple levels of difficultly.

Silvykins1 votes

Fyi for the whole first half of season 6 vayne was the number 1 played adc in north america acording to multiple ranking sites so if theirs a vayne in your game its probably one of thousands that have already been playing her and no champion is unfun to play against thats an individuals point of view PERIOD the fun factor of playing with or against a champ is completely up to you.

Marshbouy1 votes

Pretty much this. TBH i find yasuo more fun to play against than most mages but that's just how i play the game. i find myself stacking armor items more than MR items. Also he's not even good in my eyes.

Does that mean mages are "anti fun"? Maybe, but what is your definition of anti fun? (i'm pretty sick of "anti fun" being used as a buzz word. the only times i use it are when i am super tilted.)

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

yet lucian was the most picked adc with the highest pick rate over 30%

More from [ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

More by Marshbouy