Obviously. I can see that! How a company as greedy as Riot can even exist just shows how fucking low society has dropped.
But hey, kudos Beck/Merril/Ma. You con millions of people every day, and make them believe you actually give a fuck beyond how much money they throw at you. Gotta be exceptionally silver tongued to pull that one off.
Stephenizgod8 votesA company made an incredibly successful game and got rich off it? DAMN THEM!
Niyumi2 votesNo, there's making a quality game and getting rich off of it (old Nintendo, Blizzard before they sold out, etc.), then there's making an addictive game and abusing it to milk every penny out of gullible kids and whales (Riot, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, etc.).
There's also a difference between making a profit and being greedy to the point that you need to be slapped.
Stephenizgod6 votesHmm last I checked League of Legends is Free to Play, meaning any money you spend is 100% up to you and is not required at all. So how is it Riot's fault you can't control your own money? Is it wrong to want to gain money for your hard work?
Also "quality" is an opinion and differs from person to person, if you don't like League, stop playing it and go away...
Niyumi2 votesOkay, but here's the thing: In an F2P game, 99% of your developer time and resources go into the source of your income, the crap shop. This is why it takes them years to update old champions, this is why it takes them years to update the client to use modern technology, this is why the game's balance is abysmal, and all that. An amateur team could do far better than that -- updating a model would take a week at most, and it would be just the same quality you expect from Rito.
It doesn't matter that you don't have to spend money on an F2P game, because an F2P game's quality goes so far down you can't even see it anymore, just due to the fact that it's F2P. It is the literal worst model for the consumer, but the best for developers, and that's why they pushed it so hard.
I'm not going to type another essay on F2P, just go look through my history and you can see me explain it several times over.
I would stop playing, but there's nothing really worth playing anymore.
Dabrick016 votesSo you are bitching about a game you aren't willing to leave.
The best way to get back at a game is to stop playing it.
Considering that you think they are INSANELY greedy, they would rage at the fact that you, one of MILLIONS of players, leave this game. Hit them in their wallet.
Plus, we need less people like you in our community. So if you leave, it's a bonus for us too.
Niyumi2 votesNo, they don't care about individual players like me. F2P companies covet whales above all else, since most of their income is from big spenders. If whales started leaving, they'd get desperate. If a normal person leaves, they don't really care.
So, whether I play or leave, they don't care. I'm not a whale, nor can I make any whales leave -- and they know that.
And, you know, I miss when gaming was run by people like me -- people who actually gave a damn beyond preening in front of their vain little kiddie pals, and developed games that were full of life and everything the developers had. You know, the golden age of gaming. But, sadly, modern society has invaded gaming too, and now we have the cesspool we do now. We need more people like me in the community, maybe then we could get gaming back on track.
Niyumi2 votesIt's not narcissism. It's a different set of ideals that used to exist, but have mostly died out.
Dabrick011 votesNo, your ideals have arisen with this generation of PC and sheltering.
You think that every company should cater to your every need.
They should start working on it as soon as you ask.
Get your life in check. You have lost this argument.
Dabrick011 votesBerned!
Stephenizgod2 votesTrue but you are still wrong here is why:
Yes an amateur team could update their game faster with more patches, but they wouldn't be able to sustain a game as large as League with its MILLIONS OF PLAYERS... Thats the difference between an amateur team and a large company, the playerbase they can handle is totally different. If an amateur team starts to get a larger playerbase, they will need to more members so they can keep up with the growing game, soon they will be a big company if their game is successful enough. Just look at Riot Games, they weren't always as big as they are now.
Furthermore! They spend resources on Skins because it is their source of income, they have thousands of employees that need to be paid, plus they of course want to make money, they put in the work to make this game huge. Its the American Dream my friend, make something people want then get rich off it. Just because you are not talented enough to make something good, doesn't mean no one should be rewarded for doing it. Plus the skins add a bit more to the game to make it feel different every time you play, even with the same champion. They look cool and add awesome effects, just look at the Ultimate Skins, they are all badass and unique.
We get to experience the game free, you don't need to buy any skins, you don't need to buy any RP, you don't need to buy anything. If you have a problem with the way they sell useless things (like skins) you don't have to buy them. Simple as that. There is nothing to complain about here, they don't force you to buy anything and they also don't force you to play.
Something you need to remember about balancing and updating this game is that small changes have huge impacts. A small change here can affect thousands of different things in different ways. Not to mention that balance affects the different ranks differently, meaning something at Diamond doesn't work the same in Bronze, that needs to be taken into account whenever they make changes to the game. Updating old champions takes about as much time and resources as making a new champion, once they commit to making these changes it is a HUGE time and money loss if it is a failure. They need to be absolutely sure that they are making a quality champion while retaining its playerbase. With as many champions as they have now I imagine it is fairly difficult to make a working champion that feels unique without feeling completely different. That is why it takes so long to update old champions, it seems like it is more difficult than making an entirely new champion.
Basically your whole argument is "This game is fun but I hate that they are rich and I am not" or maybe you just want to bitch for no reason.
Niyumi1 votesYes an amateur team could update their game faster with more patches, but they wouldn't be able to sustain a game as large as League with its MILLIONS OF PLAYERS... Thats the difference between an amateur team and a large company, the playerbase they can handle is totally different. If an amateur team starts to get a larger playerbase, they will need to more members so they can keep up with the growing game, soon they will be a big company if their game is successful enough. Just look at Riot Games, they weren't always as big as they are now.
If this was an MMO or something like that, yes, that would be true. But League, relative to any other game, is MICROSCOPIC. Compared to WoW, GW2, even Wildstar, this game is a fraction of the work -- yet, Wildstar, running on a skeleton crew, does far better work far faster than Riot does on a far bigger scale. It doesn't take thousands of people to work on it, and they don't have thousands of employees either.
of course want to make money, they put in the work to make this game huge. Its the American Dream my friend, make something people want then get rich off it.
There's a difference between getting rich and being greedy. I have no issue with the first, but the second is where I draw the line.
Something you need to remember about balancing and updating this game is that small changes have huge impacts. A small change here can affect thousands of different things in different ways. Not to mention that balance affects the different ranks differently, meaning something at Diamond doesn't work the same in Bronze, that needs to be taken into account whenever they make changes to the game. Updating old champions takes about as much time and resources as making a new champion, once they commit to making these changes it is a HUGE time and money loss if it is a failure. They need to be absolutely sure that they are making a quality champion while retaining its playerbase. With as many champions as they have now I imagine it is fairly difficult to make a working champion that feels unique without feeling completely different. That is why it takes so long to update old champions, it seems like it is more difficult than making an entirely new champion.
No, they take a lot of time to build hype. An amateur team (with animators, programmers, writers, VO people and all that working simultaneously) could make a new champ within a couple weeks, if that. They would test it, they would iron out bugs, they would make sure it was a good addition to the roster, all that. Yet, Riot takes all this time to tease and build hype so that people will throw money at them on release day.
As I said before, this game is microscopic. The amount of work it takes to do anything is tiny relative to any other game, and it shouldn't take any time at all. Yet, Riot isn't willing to do that, because that isn't lucrative in F2P.
As for balance, they don't give a fuck about it. They create FOTM waves and push metas to make people want to buy the new broken champs and skins for them, and then after a while usher in a new wave. They keep the money makers strong, and nerf anything that competes with them or makes whales unhappy.
Basically your whole argument is "This game is fun but I hate that they are rich and I am not" or maybe you just want to bitch for no reason.
My argument is more like, "This game is fun, but it has issues, and could be so much more if we didn't enable and ignore greed."
Stephenizgod1 votesif we didn't enable and ignore greed
And there is the answer to your problem and also its contradiction. It isn't Riot's fault, the community is at fault. We buy their skins so they make more skins so we will buy them. Fuck Riot though right? Making things we want to buy. God damn monsters!
Listen pal, you are correct in that this game is not being properly balanced and it is fine to want it to be constantly improved, but the rest of your argument is just bs. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing regarding skins and the shop. They don't force us to buy them, we just buy them because we want them. How about you be grateful you are allowed to play this fun game for free instead of complaining that they want to make money as well as update a F2P game...
Why aren't you playing these supposed superior games? Because they aren't as fun? No because you want to be here on the League of Legends forums bitching that Riot wants money and they are greedy assholes for giving us completely optional purchasable content, that is completely optional... Well it seems Riot is doing something right since apparently it forces people who despise them to keep playing their game, totally against their will...
Also if you know so much about what it takes to run a game like League, why don't you make a better game that isn't so damn greedy, being free and all... Because not making any money at all is the best way to keep a game with millions of players running.
DrCyanide2 votesLeague's an addicting game, sure, but how much money do you need to spend to feed that addiction?
$0.00
Everything can be obtained for free (thanks Hextech Crafting), and those that are far enough along to be addicted are accumulating enough IP to not need to spend RP for content. People will buy cosmetic content, sure, but is that really all that different from re-releasing N64's in every color under the rainbow in an attempt to get more purchases before the console is retired?
League of Legends isn't a game that relies on Whales, and it doesn't cater to Whales. Go complain about another game if that's your argument.
Niyumi2 votesre-releasing N64's in every color under the rainbow in an attempt to get more purchases before the console is retired?
Well, ever since the original CEO of Nintendo retired, they've been getting worse and worse. When Iwata stepped down, that's when Nintendo died. So, yeah, they're greedy now, but they weren't always that way.
League of Legends isn't a game that relies on Whales, and it doesn't cater to Whales. Go complain about another game if that's your argument.
The fact that the game is F2P means it relies on whales, as all F2P games do. And, in order to keep their business, they have to pander to them.
DrCyanide2 votesWell, ever since the original CEO of Nintendo retired, they've been getting worse and worse. When Iwata stepped down, that's when Nintendo died. So, yeah, they're greedy now, but they weren't always that way.
... the recolor was while he was the CEO.
The fact that the game is F2P means it relies on whales, as all F2P games do. And, in order to keep their business, they have to pander to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
I think you'll find a lot that resonates with you in that video, yet they list League as one of the games that's not pandering to the whales at the cost of the rest of us. I think they make a lot of sense, but let me know if you disagree with any point they bring up.
Niyumi1 votesWhat they say isn't wrong, but it isn't something I agree with fundamentally. I don't believe F2P is the future of gaming, but I know we're not about to go back to P2P or anything either.
They also talk from a developer standpoint, where the model is far more lucrative than P2P or B2P ever was, but fail to mention how it detracts from the base game's quality and value. Why would a developer spend money to improve a part of the game that doesn't make them any money? A game like WoW, they go back and update the entire existing world in an expansion, and even add new content at the same time. Would an F2P company ever do that? Fuck no.
There can be consumer-friendly F2P models, that isn't wrong, but F2P as a whole is just disgusting and needs to go -- or developers need to start finding a way to pour resources into the base game as well.
DrCyanide1 votesWhy would a developer spend money to improve a part of the game that doesn't make them any money?
Games bought out right don't improve parts of the game that don't make them any money. It was shipped, that's it. You might get for some balance patches or pay for DLC or expansion packs, but you typically get nothing else unless you pay for it.
Meanwhile in F2P land, everything contributes to you wanting to pay them money, so all sorts of things get changed. I went back to a F2P game I left about 5 years ago (Vindictus) and found they'd changed a lot of things that had nothing to do with payment options. They'd added a way to reduce the grind for levels, added more playable characters, expanded the pre-mission area, improved account security, etc. If I was to open up Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty, what do you think would be improved over that same time frame?
We've seen Summoners Rift go through multiple updates, a reskinned Howling Abyss for the Bilgewater Event, a reskin of Summoner's Rift coming out, client updates, replays, etc. Know what those have cost you and me? $0.00. It's cost Riot a lot more than that to make that content for something that doesn't effect their bottom line.
In general, I tend to find games that you have to buy out right to be the bigger rip-off. You buy it because of reviews or hype, then wonder if it was really what you thought you were getting. F2P is the reverse for the customer experience, where you get to play it and if you get hyped about it you buy in.
Dabrick014 votesYou know what sucks? Watching people complain about something with no evidence to back it up.
How are they greedy? How can you tell they have stopped caring about their ONLY GAME?
You need to get a life instead of complaining about things you have no evidence to support. Right now, you seem like a 10 year old who has no idea how business works and wants the new lux skin for free.
Or you are a millennial, both equally bad.
Niyumi2 votesWell, here's the biggest sign: The fact that they went F2P. That right there shows how little they actually care about the game beyond how much money it can make for them. F2P is a death sentence for quality and passion, and is just a desperate move for more money. But then, I don't expect you to know how game development works.
And then there are several other things.
Taking years to update models, when an amateur team could do it in a week.,
Never actually balancing their game, taking a month or more to fix obvious abuse cases.
Taking years to code a new launcher, when even I could probably do it within a couple weeks.
Outright refusing to fix bugs since they have no impact on income potential (the Jayce hammer freezing bug, for example)
Largely ignoring the base game, instead focusing on skins and new champs (which both make money).
The fact that, despite being one of the most successful games in the world, they sold out to the even greedier Tencent.
Enough evidence?
And, it's not an issue of them once caring and then stopping... they literally never gave a fuck (at least as far as Beck / Merril are concerned -- developers usually always care (excluding seniors and leads), they're just not allowed to actually give it their all, since the slimy, greedy suits just want money).
Dabrick011 votesAlright, let's go through this one by one.
Models are harder to make than you think. Sure, an ameteur team could make one, but it would not be as good quality as the models that come with Riot's work. They usually come in a full VGU and that takes a while as well. Not updating or taking a bit of extra time on a model means that they want the best for their player base, not that they hate our guts.
I bet you are a Yasuo hater as well. Your GAME BREAKING BALANCE is probably just a good player stylin on you. Sure, game balance can be finicky at times, but do you understand what this game even is? This game gives players the option to build what they want, try out new builds, and get good at the game and certain champs. The balance will always be shifting in favor of some champs. This is due to the player base's ability to change. Preseason and Midseason updates take time to balance. You can't just expect every champ to be balanced after a MASSIVE rework to MULTIPLE champs.
You are really a dumbass if you think that they can code and entire launcher and client in a couple of weeks. I'm not even going to go into this one.
Fixing bugs takes time. If it is a game breaking bug, they remove the champ, isolate the corrupted or problematic code, and fix it. There isn't much more than that, but it takes time. Minor bugs that are a one and a million chance to happen, they will work on it, but not removing the champ or as fervently. I have never seen a rioter OUTRIGHT refusing to fix bugs. They would have to say, "We are content to leaving this bug in the game just to fuck with the playerbase." They just don't talk about it since it a small bug.
They can work on the base game and make skins BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE TEAM AT RIOT. There are tons of teams and teams within those teams. One does balance, one does skins, one does new champs, and another does reworks. You need to get on top of this info, your info is looking pretty fallible right about now.
I'm sorry you don't like Tencent, but by doing what they did, they became a successful company that can work on many things at once.
Enough Evidence?
Just leave the damn game if you hate it so much. Fuck man, you're such a bitch. You have no factual evidence, only widely unsupported exaggerations. Just shut the fuck up. You are totally wrong.
23382622_DEL3 votesUm, how exactly has Riot, as a company, done anything wrong? They provide a product, ostensibly for free by the way, and charge for extra content. There is nothing unscrupulous about their model - they are in the business of making money by providing entertainment. God forbid they charge you for that entertainment.
If you want free entertainment, daydream perhaps?
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesI really have nothing to say. I've tried reasoning with you and getting to understand your thought process.
But I give up. Clearly you don't see that the F2P model of business is fundamentally different than kinds of gaming business models you are used to, so you cry greedy.
On another note, Tencent has always been Riot's benefactor since their launch.
All I can say is that they do care, the fact that they take so long is becuase they are updating code in a game coded years ago, by people who don't work there anymore and leave their code up to the new guys to decipher and then add to to create new champions.
It's like the legacy client. It's a nightmare to update becuase of the old spaghetti code. This new client makes things easier to change and add features to.
I have no doubt that they could indeed work faster if this was made more recently. But it isn't. The engine they use is outdated and they have to stick with it. Give them a break.
Take care of yourself wherever you go from here.
Niyumi1 votesClearly you don't see that the F2P model of business is fundamentally different than kinds of gaming business models you are used to, so you cry greedy.
Yes, it is different. It benefits the developer at the expense of the player, and shoots the game in the foot as far as any kind of quality goes. In a P2P game, you make money based on how much people like your game and keep playing it -- if the quality is bad, or if the game isn't fun / fair, then you lose money. In an F2P game, you do not care how long they play or if they have fun, so long as they throw money at the cash shop. There is a huge difference in philosophies there, and F2P is by far the worst -- unless you're a slimy suit.
On another note, Tencent has always been Riot's benefactor since their launch.
Yes, but they didn't own the company that entire time.
All I can say is that they do care, the fact that they take so long is becuase they are updating code in a game coded years ago, by people who don't work there anymore and leave their code up to the new guys to decipher and then add to to create new champions.
Prove it then. What do they do to show that they do, in fact, care about their game beyond how much money it can make them? What do they do to improve their game that has no income potential and might even lose money developing it? The only thing I've ever seen was one of the animators taking Dragontrainer Lulu home and updating the textures/model on his own time, because he liked the champ and skin (developers usually do care, they're just not allowed to work on the actual game since there's no money in that in an F2P company). Never once has Beck, Ma, Merril or anyone in charge of anything showed they cared about the game.
I have no doubt that they could indeed work faster if this was made more recently. But it isn't. The engine they use is outdated and they have to stick with it. Give them a break.
They would also work much faster if they put more developer resources into the base game -- but there's no money to be made in that, so they won't. So they have a skeleton crew working during downtime, go figure it takes them years.
TyrekGoldenspear3 votesI'll prove it once you prove a single one of your complaints.
You have given no evidence save angry comments involving ideals you think are being violated.
You do not work there. Do not assume the behaviors of the people in charge or the people who work there. You don't know.
BladeSteel1 votesbut but but he's smarter than anyone else in the world, only he knows how all businesses work...He doesn't have to work there to know everything!!!! XD
Niyumi1 votesglassdoor.com -- you can read anonymous reviews and articles written by employees at any company you can think of. Many of the Riot Games reviews are very negative before they're cycled out. So, while I don't work there, I do have a good idea of what it's like.
And, having interned at Nintendo and done work in game development, I know how things work in the industry, and I know what common practices are.
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesAre you looking at only the negative ones?
Have these employees been fired? Because if they have they will skew their review to cast Riot in a negative light.
If you did intern work in Nintendo and done work in game development then you should know that making a game and later updating it and adding features isn't a walk in the park. Especially with code you didn't write, written in an old system that may or may not have copious amounts of spaghetti in it, and expected to do everything and anything by the community otherwise you're demonized.
Niyumi1 votesCompanies pay people to write positive reviews, so a lot of them are bullshit. Not all, but a lot.
The negative ones aren't only people who lose their job, it's a lot of people who are just unhappy with how the company runs, and want to vent without getting fired for badmouthing the CEO or team leads.
Oh, it's not easy for sure, but League, as I said elsewhere in here, is microscopic in terms of scope. It would not take a ton of work to do anything in this game, and the apparent inability to do so is either just laziness or suits telling developers no.
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesIf they did they wouldn't bother putting it on that site.
No company is perfect, but it isn't fair how you treat Riot.
Oh, it's not easy for sure, but League, as I said elsewhere in here, is microscopic in terms of scope.
Stop. You don't know anything about how this game is developed. You have no clue how to code this game or what kind of work is involved.
So please. Do not act like you're on the development team and know how this game is developed. You don't. You don't know how long it takes.
Projects you do in internship/college projects are only a taste of professional work.
Niyumi1 votesYou're right, I don't work on the game. But, I can look at what's in it, and I can tell you that it's tiny. Beyond tiny. Unless they need 10 pages of code to make your Q button work, then there's really no excuse.
Tel Saro2 votesBlizzard is 100000000000000x worse than Rito in every possible way.
Rito is honestly not a bad company, so long as you remember that every company is in it to turn a profit.
Niyumi1 votesBlizzard died in 2007, when Activision bought them out. So, it's not Blizzard anymore.
And no, not every company. Nintendo under Yamauchi & Iwata, the original Blizzard, all that. Sure, they wanted money, but they also cared about what they were doing, and put their all into it. Nintendo even lost a lot of money for sticking to their principles.
S0kaX1 votesprepare to have -8 in 5 minutes
Niyumi2 votesI don't care. Everything I say is downvoted anyway.
ProudOfMyWiener2 votesWhen will you get the hint tho xD
Niyumi2 votesWell, given that I hate modern society and how fucking pathetic it is, how I hate greed, and all that... I don't think I'll really take a hint. I'll keep arguing for people to be decent human beings and all that until someone stabs me to death for insulting their lack of character.
ProudOfMyWiener1 votesThat escalated quickly xD
BladeSteel2 votesYou better quit your job then since you wanting money is greedy.
Niyumi1 votesMaking a living and living for money are different things.
BladeSteel2 votesAnd yet you're arguing that riot "lives for money" when you have no true evidence besides "I'm right and you're wrong".
Colgate Gator1 votesI don't care. Everything I say is downvoted anyway.
One would think you'd get the hint.
Niyumi1 votesPeople hated the guy who said the world was round. People hated the guy who came up with Tectonic Theory. People eventually realized they were right. ^^
