I can only stand so much of this infuriating game run by greedy assholes who give no fuck outside of money per day. So, what games (MMOs) are any good anymore?
I just want something fun and enjoyable. I played WoW for a very long time, but it just doesn't have that same appeal it used to. I like PvE (raiding and whatnot), and more game-like PvP.
What's good anymore?
Cocho4 votesRiot does alot of interacting to their playerbase that other games do not do.
Disliking the playerbase is one thing, idk what makes you think that way about rito though. They've certainly made decisions that I do not agree with, but I dont see how any of that is money-based.
Niyumi2 votesEverything they do is about money. The articles they spit out are mostly lies (and in fact, I don't know how they haven't been hit with a false advertising suit yet).
But here's the biggest one: The fact that they went F2P shows how little they care about anything other than money.
Cocho3 votesThey went f2p because they were a small indie company XD They werent always a success lol.
Like half of their articles are answering questions.
Please find me these lies you're talking about. I think these articles can be interesting http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com
Niyumi1 votesThey went F2P because it is the singular most profitable business model in online gaming, no other reason. There's a catch though: In order to make all that money, you have to destroy any semblance of quality your game had / could have.
I've worked in gaming, okay? The things they say are not true in the slightest.
Cocho2 votesYou can't just make a game, then sell it for a price and expect people to give a dam lol.
They had to go f2p lol. Its the only sensible decision. It makes money because people that wouldnt have, can try it. Even then its not like its just one person at riot. Who is greedy? the founders? the ceo? a certain department? All of them?
What quality is destroyed? Nothing is behind a paywall. There are alot of cheap ip champions that are 100% viable Still waiting on you to point the lies though
Niyumi2 votesYou can't just make a game, then sell it for a price and expect people to give a dam lol.
Really? Why are consoles a thing then? And there was a time that League was B2P. Then they realized a lot more money was to be made with F2P.
They had to go f2p lol
They did not.
Who is greedy? the founders? the ceo? a certain department? All of them?
Most of the time, the developers themselves care about the game (Even at Riot), but executives (usually producers, but in this case both producers and founders / owners) and team leads are generally incredibly greedy. In Riot's case, it's Beck, Ma and Merril that I know of (Riot's two founders, and Tencent's CEO).
What quality is destroyed? Nothing is behind a paywall. There are alot of cheap ip champions that are 100% viable Still waiting on you to point the lies though
Lie # 1: We put quality above all else, even money.
Simple way to prove this wrong: Riot openly admits Lee is broken and warps the game, but also openly admits they will never nerf him because he makes money at LC$.
But if you look at the way they spend years doing what a high school team could do in a week (champ reworks), the way they take years to update splash arts (which doesn't take that long, sorry), the lack of balance despite even LC$ players saying things are wrong, and etc... they don't give a fuck. As long as they're making money, they do not actually care.
Also answers your question about losing quality. In an F2P game, the base game does not make money, the cash shop does. So 99% of your dev resources will be poured into the cash shop (and LC$, in League's case), while the base game will be largely ignored -- touched up here and there to placate real gamers, but nothing else.
Cocho1 votesI could be wrong, but If I remember correctly, the beta was free and you could share it with friends. After that, it was free to play but they did sell copies in stores that had champs and some other stuff.
Lie # 1: We put quality above all else, even money.
Please tell me where they say that lol. I dont even care if its a bad lie or a good one, just quote something. Link me where riot says lee is OP but he makes EZ$, just sounds like you're meme-ing.
But if you look at the way they spend years doing what a high school team could do in a week (champ reworks), the way they take years to update splash arts (which doesn't take that long, sorry), the lack of balance despite even LC$ players saying things are wrong, and etc... they don't give a fuck. As long as they're making money, they do not actually care. Also answers your question about losing quality. In an F2P game, the base game does not make money, the cash shop does. So 99% of your dev resources will be poured into the cash shop (and LC$, in League's case), while the base game will be largely ignored -- touched up here and there to placate real gamers, but nothing else.
They've written an article on the process, it goes through alot of different steps. Here is the article. http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2016/11/dev-on-the-champion-rework-pipeline/ Here is a video released today, of some of those steps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8crNITkcX0
Tbh I cant see a high school team doing all of that in a week. Making model itself, rigging, animations and effects is going to take some time. That is assuming everything goes perfect.
I don't understand how you could say they dump all their resources into the shop, which is basically just skins and LCS, when there are separate teams/departments that do that.
This list below is out of date, but I guess none of them do anything and all each one of them cares about is money lol.
Also how are Beck, Ma and Merril, greedy? Needs some reasoning.
I can say you're greedy but it doesnt mean anything because I have nothing to back it up.
Cocho1 votesLeadership President - Tryndamere CEO - Ryze VP of Special Projects - RiotFluf Special Projects Manager - Kry0 Project Coordinator - [i]Riot MilkManiac Vice President, Technology - Scott Thru The Heart
Country Manager - Oceania - MasterMirkinen
Community Director of Player Experience - Pendragon Collegiate Community Coordinator - RiotJaws Community Manager - Xin it to Win it Community Programs Manager - JD 2020, StillRampant Community Coordinator - Aklaen, Nikasaur, Opti, Riot Condor, RiotMsPudding, RiotQuetzalcoatl Social Media Coordinator - Riot Hitstreak Social Media - RiotGenzer German Community Coordinator - Saergi Community Assistant- RiotAether, Vesh
International Community Coordinator - RiotMixdj European English Community Coordinator - RiotYmir European Community Manager - Demorphic, leoliolip Polish Community Coordinator - Rahares Brazilian Community Specialist - RiotLuqi
Web Content Manager - Monkey Wrangler Web Content Specialist - Average Gatsby Web Content Editor - ByronicHero Web Content Assistant - K0sent0
LAN Center Program Coordinator - martlet Forum Administrator - RiotRomulus Fansite Program Manager - Aurum Recruiter - Princess Aura, Riot Lelu Player Communications - Riot Pwyff
Champion Herald - RiotWenceslaus
People People Operations Coordinator - Discord People Programs - RiotSumosue Recruiting Coordinator - RiotCupcake, Riot Chezai Training Manager - Riot KennyChuck
Art Art Director - RiotNarsil Lead Effects Artist - RiotTroyzilla VFX Artist - Riot DudeBro Associate VFX Artist - Bitsplosion Senior Artist - RiotDanky, 3PEET Artist - RoadkillsRevenge Sr. Concept Artist - Iron Stylus Concept Artist - alex gonzales, RiotEarp, RiotPenguin, RiotTeaTime, RiotZeronis, The Bravo Ray Associate Concept Artist - RiotManton Lead Character Artist - SpaceStallion Senior Character Artist - Grumpy Monkey, MUERTE TIME Character Artist - cgsammu, ChaosEidolon Associate Character Artist - shadowMacuahuitl Senior Environment Artist - Kilmourz, RiotDesertRose, RiotForScience, RiotOtown Environment Artist - Riot Nightblue Splash Artist - RiotSilver Concept/Splash Artist - Coldburger Associate Visual Designer - Riot Whimsy
Art Production Coordinator - fafafafrani 2D Production Artist - *Knockmaw (http://www.emmacomiconline.com/) Art Producer - Deacon Associate Art Producer - Riot Shamurai 3D Game Artist and Animator - Psyoung Technical Artist - RiotVitzkrieg, Riot JxE Associate Technical Artist - Drachis
Animation Animation Director - RiotBamDragon Senior Animator - Ohmikegoodness, RiotCaptainLx, Shoquistador Animator - RiotLamz, 2Mosh Associate Animator - nickstravaganza, Reach4the Skylar, theunderscore13, XrayAlpha Associate Technical Animator - JesterCapp Senior Motion Graphics Designer - LiQuiD StRiPeS Motion Graphics Artist - Kungfu Gopher
UX Senior UX Designer - Jeffexpress UX Designer - VonBurgermeister UI Designer - Boourns, Rayven UI Artist - RiotRadioblur Software Engineer - Fruitstrike, Rioting, RiotLobster, RiotMuscleMcBuff, RiotRayanami, RiotSchmick Associate Flash Engineer - LowPolyCount
QA Director of QA - Sevenam Senior QA Lead - RiotBufo the Jig QA Lead - Ellondil QA Strategist - RiotHavoc Release QA Analyst - RiotPhageQuit Senior QA Analyst - DucDucGoose, Riot Jaya, Wilwariniel QA Analyst - Awwww Yeaaaaahh, BrightEyz, daiminatrix, DuckCurry, Icosahedron, ManWolfAxeBoss, JHa, Jozrael, Kismet, PoniesSwagAmilli, Ponts, Riot Taco Storm, Riot Afic, RiotAmes, Riot Baconhawk, RiotDaemon, RiotFpMcgee, RiotGrayswandir, RiotMannie, RiotPi, RiotRectifyer, RiotSpookyDooky, Riot Blackrook, Riot Gharris, Riot Velvet, SmashGizmo, Statikk, ricklessabandon, vLemon Associate QA Analyst - Anodoin, ANVILANCHE, Riot G Mang, Riot jayway, Riot Pibjub, Riot Navi, Roku, Samwell, Squad5, The Loki Associate QA Analyst - Gameplay - Kades, Ququroon Technical Analyst - Damiya Technical QA Analyst - RiotTerra Technical Quality Analyst - RiotRorrim
Platform QA Lead - Fuzzyweapon Platform QA Analyst - ItzMattu Associate Platform Analyst - Riot Azmodius Analyst for PVP.net - Riot Exgeniar
Support Director of Player Support - RiotRich Player Support Supervisor - Loote Player Support Lead - V1rtuE Player Support Lead - Player Behaviour - WookieeCookie Player Support Operations Manager - RiotBear Player Support Quality Coordinator - Riot Sol Rex Leo Player Support Manager - Latin America - omegaryze, Riot Uracan PS Coordinator - Motamaya Player Support Specialist - AltCtrlElite, Aurora, BlueFire, Bok, Chewbacha, choochoo, ChronopolisCC, Geist, Hollymonster, Incurable Love, Infinite Veritas, Nicolioliolio, Nossaj, Opeli, Ponies, Riot dArtagnan, Riot DavieB, Riot Sneaky, Riot xShiroix, RIOTakMitsu, RiotBlasto, RiotBrentmeister, RiotCopperKitten, RiotDesrtPaladin Riot Unconkable, Riot xShiroix, Riot Xyanyde, Riot Zephyreal, RivingtonThe3rd, Son Golin, Vendrevard, VuSwag, WallyWalrus Technical Support Specialist - Eliv, Riot Morgageddon, RiotDecrepit, RiotTyphon Player Support Special Projects Coordinator - RiotSaori Special Projects Producer, Player Support - Gicer Account Support Lead - Lignarius
PS Billing - Mr Ri, Riot Peaches, Riot The Flash User Experience Designer - Riot RoboLions Player Experience Assistant - Montag
Web Lead Web Developer - jmccaffrey Senior Web Developer - 0pherion, RiotPig, RiotTantram Web Developer - Fapiko, RiotAaronMike, RiotDarius, RiotNinjaTabby, Zivix Associate Web Developer - Riot Reinboom Associate Web/Graphic Designer - Saiyaka Events Graphic Designer - Sheerness
Graphic Designer - RiotTravisGoetz, Riot Urf, Ryedan Junior Graphic Designer - Riot Viola
Web Content Manager - Monkey Wrangler Senior Web Analyst - Evil Viz Web Content Specialist - NeeksNaman Web QA Engineer - SuperWes
Production Sr. Producer, Live Service - CaptSturm Senior Producer - Riot Ashley, Riot GTez, StevenSnow Producer - Ace of Trolls, Bellissimoh, Deathstryker78, sixtwo, Status Kwoh, Volibar Associate Producer - Angry Loft Man, Chager, Eredwethrin, Kantorek, Lomar, Pabro, RavenBeauty, RiotCochese, RiotMindbullets, RiotStallion Assistant Producer - RiotBatty, RiotLoop, RiotSeb, RyanLaughlin, Riot Hawknet, Safelocked Product Manager - SaberPrivateer Assistant Product Manager - Bigbadabruin Production Intern - RiotVert
Production Coordinator - Nidivre, RiotBrokenSword Production Assistant - RiotVeonneth, Riot Calad Technical Production Coordinator - Iniquitee Technical Producer - FastLoris Live Design Producer - Veigar Release Coordinator - Illusia Content Producer - RiotJeffJew Video Producer - Tamat
Design Design Director - Zileas Lead Designer - Kitae Lead Champion Designer - Meddler, Morello Champion Designer - Wrekz Associate Champion Designer - Fan of Legends, Foev, gypsylord Senior Game Designer - Rjcombo, Yegg Game Designer - Coronach, Ezreal, Hephestopheles, HOT NOME ACTION, RiotScruffy, Samizul, Umbrage, Volty, Zeigler, ZenonTheStoic Associate Game Designer - Breaksteaks, BuffMePlz, Certainlyt, Classick, FeralPony, issfire Lead Live Designer - Geeves Live Game Designer - Solcrushed Live Balance Designer - RiotChun, Scarizard Live Balance Intern - Wav3Break Game Systems Designer - Xelnath Game Design Intern - Riot Exekias
Technical Coordinator - RiotKTGoldwolf, thebigbadtofu Technical Designer - Brackhar Associate Technical Designer - Subninja, Xypherous
Game Developer - Guinsoo Associate Developer - Riot Evo Gameplay Analyst - Dannamoth, Fale Whale, RiotAthanatos, Riot Janook, RiotRepertoir, RiotShantzilla, Socratocracy Associate Game Analyst - Jatt Design Analyst - RoamingNumeral Development Manager - RiotLindorn Associate Development Manager - RiotMilkcow Development Intern - RiotJules
Social Systems/Player Behaviour Lead Designer of Social Systems - Lyte Social Systems Designer - Drevarius Senior User Researcher - Davin User Researcher - Riot Tiki Player Behaviour Specialist - Keyru User Research Intern - Riot Capernoited
Network Operations Senior Network Ops Technician - Riot Renov8, RiotEvolution Network Ops Technician - Crower, Dativus, ehhedehera, Filthy Animals, Multra, RiotBulva, RiotJenny, RiotKlover, RiotRival, RiotSuperfoxman, Sick Nate Network Ops Data Analyst - Glitterdust, Heat Death, Jesse Perring, Xenxar Service QA - RiotSamm
Senior Release Manager - Riot Natural20 Assistand Release Manager - Riot Kowari
Engineering Senior Software Developer - Capo Ferro Senior Software Engineer - RIOT goliathI3, Yakaru Software Engineer - Hohums, new scott, RiotPabloNevares, seisgatos Associate Software Engineer - B1naryV1s10n, RiotBahamut, RiotRetral, TimeForCrime, Wiksy, Zydion
Platform Engineer - AgentX91, omgwhat, Razgriez, RiotKiddington, TastyFresh, Vaurnbarn Associate Platform Engineer - 321ModelCitizen, Scezumin
Associate Information Security Engineer - RiotGradius
Build Engineer - ElyCyan, RiotSplosion Core Engineer - Lima Beans Engineer - WhattayaBrian Associate Engineer - Asymptote Game Engineer - Chunkface, Samamayhem Associate Game Engineer - Jooballin Senior Web Engineer - Krylhos
Sr LoL Services Engineer - RiotShiminerisa Senior Animation Engineer - Griftrix Riot Intern Team - RiotPmac
Creative Sr. Creative Designer - RiotRaven Creative Designer - Ransom, Riot Entropy Associate Creative Designer - Harrow, 20thCenturyFaux Associate Writer - RiotRunaan, Skribbles
Audio Senior Sound Designer - Riot Eno Sound Designer - Jaywatford Associate Sound Designer - BelligerentSwan, C3Sound, Riot Kyugene Associate Audio Engineer - Praeco
IT Director of IT - Riot LA Decay Tech Director - banksy Manager of Desktop Support - MythikWolf Senior Desktop Analyst - Riot Des Associate Desktop Analyst - Riot Cezz Desktop Analyst - Goshzilla, Legit, Monkey Spittle IT System Engineer - RiotAnonymous
Tools Tools Engineer - SpikedPunchVictim Associate Game Tools Engineer - Foxious
Marketing Director of Marketing - RiotChris Marketing Manager - MsSassyClassy Marketing Associate - O2ymandias, RiotTobster, RiotVox Market Research Associate - RiotJackal eCommerce Director - Hippalus eCommerce Manager - DUNKWORLD, Udyr eCommerce Associate - WizardCrab PR Manager - Heintzer
Accounts Payable - Riot Girl Brand Manager - OldManCheung Associate Brand Manager - MrCrumb Associate Product
Niyumi1 votesPlease tell me where they say that lol. I dont even care if its a bad lie or a good one, just quote something. Link me where riot says lee is OP but he makes EZ$, just sounds like you're meme-ing.
I'm goinna have to go digging. The post was a few months ago on the forums. I'm sure someone else has a link, but I'll find it later.
They've written an article on the process, it goes through alot of different steps. Here is the article. http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2016/11/dev-on-the-champion-rework-pipeline/
And this article is bullshit. Maybe if you spend 10 minutes a day working on it, it could take this long, but if you put a full 8 hours of work into something, it's goinna take a week at most, maybe two if you're goinna be picky about things. We're talking one model, with one set of animations, one voice over, all that. When you look at an MMO like FFXIV that spits out a huge content patch every other month with new models, animations, voice overs (in the hundreds, not just one)... there's no excuse. Riot is making billions per year.
Here is a video released today, of some of those steps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8crNITkcX0
This is for skins and LC$, which they make money off of. Not relevant at all.
Tbh I cant see a high school team doing all of that in a week. Making model itself, rigging, animations and effects is going to take some time. That is assuming everything goes perfect.
Have you done any of that? Animation and modeling is easy, as is rigging.
I don't understand how you could say they dump all their resources into the shop, which is basically just skins and LCS, when there are separate teams/departments that do that.
Okay, kid, I get that you think you know things, but you have not worked in the gaming industry. They have finite people and resources, and 99% of that is going to go into what makes you money, in this case the crap shop and LC$. They're not going to spend money paying people to do work that doesn't make them money.
Also how are Beck, Ma and Merril, greedy? Needs some reasoning.
A: They went F2P.
B: They sold out to a shitty Chinese greed fest named Tencent.
C: Everything I listed above.
I can say you're greedy but it doesnt mean anything because I have nothing to back it up.
If you knew anything about how it all works (go read through my history, I've typed fucking countless essays on it), you'd know that they're greedy.
Cocho1 votesconcept of character, design, research, concept art, Modeling, animation, rigging, visual effects, 2d art (icons, splash arts for all the skins), voices in different languages, sfx of the characters, constant playtesting, and bringing in people to playtest. Thats not even all of it.
That's alot of work.
Concepts of abilities, visuals, etc, are going to change. In the article, they said it takes 6 months for a rework. I can 100% believe that. I've only dabbled into motion graphics and visual effects. I find it quite time consuming and I don't think it is easy, but if you do, I would love to see your extensive portfolio.
I don't see how or why they would lie here.
Here's a video from smite. (or are they greedy too cause they're free to play) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaxqNMjVyVE
Step 1. Big meeting, what they're going to look in, what they need, ideas, discussion,. early concept art, design, figure out what he's gonna look like, who he is,
They called it a design doc. A concept art of the character, and what they do. That takes several weeks.
Then they make it into a rough standard model with basic animations and playtest the character. Through several weeks of playtesting, they figure out what they do/don't want to keep, narrow things down.
We're already at a month and 1/2 atleast lol. We're on step one.
We're talking one model, with one set of animations, one voice over, all that
There are several skins, so several models. Different animations for different skins, and voice overs in many languages. You said 2 weeks at most. Lets just look at warwick, he has 5 skins. So two 1/2 months on this step lol.
They went free to play because it was the only sensible business decision. Imo mobas particularity are good f2p. Just because they're free to play, doesn't mean they're a greedy company. Are you saying every f2p is just greedy? Its a business decision. If the games aren't pay to win, then I dont see how it is immoral.
If you wanted to have a quick google search, tencent has always owned a large portion of riot games shares. They basically just bought them out. They have more stocks in Riot games than Riot games.
I'm still sitting here with no cold hard evidence shown to me that makes them greedy.
99% of that is going to go into what makes you money
They bring in pro players and other outsiders to playtest all the time. How does that make them money?
And yeah, hiring people to create champions over months, makes them money lol
You're just spouting bs and conspiracy theories. Link me something. You can keep saying things that are baseless, it just means nothing. I cannot comment on your Final Fantasy XIV remark. Smite drops monthly gods, but it does not take them 1 month to make them. They are in development for much longer. Maybe the same is true for that game. It's true for league but they're also working on other things, it isn't just champions.
Radiant Wukong2 votesFinal Fantasy Street Fighter Paragon The Witcher Marvel Heroes Omega Fallout Elder Scrolls
Literally an infinite list
From new releases like Injustice 2 to old games like Ping Pong (2 white sliding rectangles and a white block with a black background) to pinball and solitaire.
Niyumi1 votesOkay, thing is, I'm not talking console games. They last me a few days to a week at best. And most of those games you listed are shitty now anyway.
OceanicEyes1 votesIt's not an MMO, but Bloodborne and the Dark Souls series are some of the best games I've ever played. Can't comment much on MMOs, haven't played any myself.
Niyumi1 votesI've played them all. Don't really enjoy them enough to just play for PvP. Did the "story", and that was that.
Dannywolf1 votesI like Final Fantasy 14. Is more story/PvE focused than PvP focused. The lore is well written and fleshed out. Its still popular and getting its 2nd expansion in about 2 weeks.
Only downside that people cry about is the monthly subscription fee.
Niyumi1 votesMy only issue with FFXIV is the combat. I love everything else about the game. People say the rotations are much more interesting later on, but at the same time say that the raids are so scripted that there's no RNG whatsoever.
Is it actually fun at end-game?
Dannywolf1 votesI don't do super hard raids cause I'm not that kind of player to do Savage raids. But yeah there isn't any RNG. Its more of how well do you know your class and memorizing battle phases. The game is really more story than anything else. Cause as a end-game crafter, I'm sad with how crafting keeps getting nerfed. ._. But I enjoy the costumes nonetheless.
I'd say, the game is what you make of it. Its more of for RP and story than end-game stuff.
AhmadS51 votesYou like PVE grinding try war frame - Dragon nest - vandictus - C9
Riders of Icarus maybe ?
there is allot of games out there
you can go to mmos.com and pick a game from there .
Taric the Gay1 votesI usually load up Gemcraft when I'm not playing League of Legends. It's a pretty fun game.
