Suggestion for new Lissandra passive

Thryale·May 9, 2014·2 votes·519 views

I remember reading elsewhere on the forums that ppl are rather dissatisfied with Lissandra's passive as it feels eclipsed by the presence of chalice/athene's, so I thought I'd give it a whack and see if I could come up with a better passive.

Frost Shield: Every time Lissandra casts a spell she gains a shield for 1/2/3% of her max hp. CC enemy champions automatically increase her shield amount by 5% of her max hp. As long as her shield is unbroken, it's hp can be increased and it's duration reset with each spell cast and CC landed. Upon having her shield broken, Lissandra cannot reapply her shield for 8/6/4 seconds. Shield lasts for 5 seconds.

I suppose some inherent cap may be necessary to prevent abuse cases where players will spam max cdr q's in fountain until they have an uber shield, but for the most part I feel this is somewhat balanced. Thoughts?

12 Comments

JackYAquaMay 9, 20141 votes

The basic idea sounds nice, but your balancing is very ... unbalanced ^^
Just imagine she chain casts her spells in base until she gets to the lane, she'd have a massive shield when she gets there.

ThryaleMay 9, 20141 votes

Aye, I had already thought of that, however I find that any practical application of it would be almost null. (tho it should still be dealt with regardless for consistency sake)

The reason I don't think that base stacking would be practical is:

you'd spend forever getting a sizable shield
maintaining said shield until one gets to lane would result in liss going oom almost every time

But yes, I think it should be dealt with, just to avoid any case where ppl can abuse it.

I've thought about putting a cap on the shield, but I kinda don't like the idea personally, but it would be the safest method as far as balance is concerned.

There could also be the method of preventing the same spell from granting a shield if cast within x seconds. But this would make it hard to build up and sustain her shield in combat over long and protracted engagement

Basically, I want it to be a ramping power for liss players, causing the enemy to either bide their time till she goes oom, or forces them to engage her before she engages them with a strong shield.

I suppose that may be one reason why I don't like the shield cap method, as I'd prefer players to chose their own time to engage, rather than just getting the shield to cap than going in.

Would you happen to have any suggestions?

Courier EightMay 9, 20141 votes

A way to balance that more is to make the conditions similar to her current passive, aka "Whenever Lissandra's spells CC a target, she gains a shield... etc."

It'll help her short-range mage playstyle, while also allowing for counter-play (dodge the spell, she doesn't get a shield.) And I think the shield shouldn't scale up with each spell landed, but it maybe could refresh it's duration? (Let's say, the shield lasts for 3 seconds before disappearing, but if you land another spell the duration is increased for another three seconds. Breaking the shield causes the shield to go on cooldown for 8/6/4 seconds.)

ThryaleMay 9, 20141 votes

Interesting, but I dunno. I feel that merely increasing the duration of the shield is almost meaningless on someone like liss. Unless the shield provides some uber good shield amount, because her shield is gonna be easily broken as soon as it comes up due to being in close range to the enemy.

WorgslargMay 9, 20141 votes

How about a mana restore on applying a slow/ cc to a champion. Mana restore is based apon the slow. This would need her q to slow all targets hit though.

Cosmic WarperMay 9, 20141 votes

I like the idea of a shield since she is such a close-mid range mage. However, your suggestion definitely needs tweaks to it. 1. The passive should only be able to proc when you hit a spell, not when you cast one. That's just self explanatory. 2. The shield shouldn't be able to reset its duration. That's just a perma shield in a team fight since 3 of her spells are CC. Maybe increase the duration by 1-2 seconds by each enemy caught by her crowd control spells, giving her ring of frost really great synergy with her passive.

The rest of the utility of the passive works. The duration of the shield is fine, but the reapplication hindrance shouldn't scale so well into late game. 4 seconds is a pretty short cd for a passive shield. 10/8/6 sounds more balanced to give her some vulnerability.

ThryaleMay 9, 20141 votes

You bring up a good point about the duration. However, if the shield expires, it does not go on cd, as I feel it would be excessively punishing for liss players.

I do like the idea of having the shield proc when it connects rather than cast, but that brings it's own set of problems. Yes it solves the infinite scaling shield, but it makes the shield strength far less reliable as you'll have to engage without the shield.

It does open up avenues of counter play for her enemies, but I feel that it would also make liss's engages a lot more binary at the same time.

"did you engage well?" - yes, you win your trade in the vast majority of cases - no, sucks to be you, yer left deep in enemy territory with no shield and no dmg on the enemy

What I really want from this passive is to allow liss players to be able to approach the enemy without having to be so afraid of small harrass like aa's or small poke and be able to force the enemy to either back off or trade with you.

I'm -not- looking to make her invincible to poke and harass however.

also, think about it 1% of 700 hp is only 7 hp, that shield isn't gonna do much unless you get some stacks up, which plays into liss's mana issues.

Do I engage with no shield, but ensure I have the mana to pull off a full combo? Or do I farm and poke till I have a sizable shield then go in, but risk running oom in the process?

Cosmic WarperMay 9, 20141 votes

Or you can make her E proc her passive on immediate use so you have the best of both worlds since you basically engage with it anyway. It would also give her a shield as she's trying to escape, giving her even better escape tactics.

ManchetteMay 9, 20141 votes

I see the use of this whole shield idea, however I have always thought that Lissandra 's passive was the mana sustain which carried her up to a mana item.

ThryaleMay 9, 20142 votes

That may be true, but the problem is, chalice is an extremely good mana item for extremely cheap. If you really wanted to get a solid mana item early, liss could start 2 fae charms and recall once she gets 500-ish gold to complete chalice. This is especially true if she's running tele.

Liss doesn't need a bandaid for her high mana costs, she needs some form of encouragement/reward for getting within almost melee range of most enemies.

ManchetteMay 10, 20141 votes

This is a very good point, and sheds light onto why a shield would be better than what she has now. Thank you for clarifying!

Cosmic WarperMay 9, 20141 votes

It really doesn't help that much. You can't really spam with lissandra anyway since her Q doesn't do much harass early, and before 6 she shouldn't be diving an enemy and spending her mana.