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@Meddler: Goals for veigar post patch 5.6

Thryale·3/24/2015, 10:29:24 PM·35 votes·3,792 views

Since yer lurking in the forums atm, I thought I'd ask your thoughts concerning our favorite master of evil.

As the patch notes for patch 5.6 have just been released, and the veigar changes are locked in place, what exactly is the plan for veigar from here on out?

Like, I know you recently said something along the lines of wanting to preserve veig's identity as a single target burst mage, but with all of his (non-ult) dmg being skill shots, how do you intend to keep him from switching over to a standard poke-mage-with-strong-burst (ala syndra) role?

Ever since the nerfs to veigar's E the community has been begging for having his W's delay reduced so that he doesn't have to rely on his stun to land it anymore. But I'm concerned that doing so will actually harm his identity as a burst mage. But at the same time, his W really feels like half a spell without his E to land it reliably.

Also, since veig's Q has been able to hit 2 creeps for a while now, do you have any data to share with us showing just how much the average stacks as increased? Do these numbers seem low, high? expected, unexpected?

And finally, after this patch goes through, what are your hopes it will have for veigar? How much of an impact do you think they will have on him?

49 Comments

Ovion3/25/2015, 1:52:20 AM8 votes

@Meddler pls we need you, don't let Veigar die Q.Q

ShineySides3/26/2015, 12:43:37 AM3 votes

Riot doesnt seem to want to make veigar a single damage mage, one of the only 2 single target spells he had, is now a 2fer. Making 3 of his abilities multitarget.

So lets just get crazy with the cage.

Lets make the cage extend the range of his Q by whatever distance it traveled through the cage. (lay it down, oh they flashed out? Hit them in the spine with your skillshot with that bonus range you now have. ) or lay it down from range, and smash your Q into the dude you snared on the far wall. (whatever this would be nice but I WANT the idea below).

And how about if he lands his W inside the cage it damages everyone inside, increasing with damage based on the number of people snared in the walls/ inside. Outside, or no cage, it acts the same as it always does. Hell you want to make it REALLY wild? (and my favorite idea) Increase the damage done to enemies if veigar is INSIDE with them (he likes to torment them up close of course) .

I want to live in a world where veigars will flash into their OWN cages NEXT to enemy melee, to blow everything up and kill them all while being cut down laughing.

JUST DO SOMETHING INTERESTING.

Conturbatio3/25/2015, 12:02:09 PM2 votes

Actually, Syndra is a burst mage. More fun to play than the current Veigar. Her Q is much easier to hit (since it deals damage to all enemies) and has a shorter cooldown at all ranks. She has a higher range, and doesn't rely on her stun that much. And her ult deals way more Damage than Veigar's (against non-AP champions). With just 840 AP, Syndra can deal a maximum of 1260 + (140% AP) = 1260 + 1176 = 2436 damage with just a click (assuming she spawned 4 more spheres) on a higher range (750 range) at level 16. While Veigar has a base damage of 500 + (100% AP ratio), he can only reach 2436 if he gets around 1963 AP from items + Q, which is impossible unless the game lasts 2 hours or longer. Even Syndra's minimum damage at lvl 16 deals more base damage than Veigar's ult (540). I remember destroying too many pre-nerf Veigar in mid. Didn't even have a hard against them, they fed me so much + I rushed a bit tanky (RoA) so I wouldn't get bursted from their 80% enemy ap ratio on their ult. Even when their jungler ganked, I still got either Veigar or both without dying.

Currently Syndra is my favorite champion because she's also a "Single Target Burst Mage" and still able to teamfight after using her ult, unlike pre-nerf and the current Syndra who either dies after killing 1 champion or just watch the teamfight since he can't do anything anyways.

But, if they nerf Syndra.... I'll be so fking done with this game. I'm playing her atm mostly because her lore matches her playstyle (a dark sovereign bringing destruction and fear to the battlefield with her immense powers) unlike Veigar who's only good at speaking and telling fairy tales.

Meep Man3/25/2015, 11:34:23 AM2 votes

I dont think there is any EXACT plans. I think they will likely do what they do. Moniter him, see if he needs help. Maybe look at his W for a bit internally, see if anything could use a change.

skyfall6193/25/2015, 3:19:25 PM1 votes

give his w 2-3 charges lower dmg a little bit. so if you trap someone in the cage you make a meteor shower within the cage. makes veigar less reliant on landing the stun to make use of w

Llanite3/25/2015, 5:10:00 PM1 votes

Fizz just build AD.

4th3t0s3/25/2015, 6:58:57 PM1 votes

Cry me a river, if you can't figure out how to play him effectively with the current changes, it's not necessarily a problem with balance.

4th3t0s3/25/2015, 7:51:56 PM1 votes

Suppose we agree to disagree then. Having played him for about 3 years now, the only significant change to his viability or balance I've seen is he can no longer delete tanks, but that was never his intended purpose as a burst mage, nevermind that was only possible because of DFG still being in the game. He still scales well into lategame, he still offers a lot of damage in teamfights, and his stun still has insane zone control for being a basic ability.

4th3t0s3/26/2015, 12:42:31 AM1 votes

Her entire kit revolves around damage, Veigar only has 3 because of his stun. One of the reasons nobody takes board discussions seriously is because you insist on placing the measuring stick of viability and balance against other champions, and not the game as a whole.

Yes, Leblanc still offers insane damage lategame, yes, her passive is still wonky when it comes to bursting her, yes, she still has a crapton of mobility, but we're not talking about Leblanc, we're talking about Veigar; or so I thought.

4th3t0s3/26/2015, 12:46:37 AM1 votes

This entire thread has no point in existing, 5.6 has JUST gone live, and you're already assuming they have a well thought out gameplan for ONE champion who hasn't even been under the radar until recently? You're asking too much, and it's derailed into people whining that X doesn't measure up to Y, not through any fault of the OP, however.

DrCyanide3/26/2015, 1:56:02 AM1 votes

I'm not even sure I have the heart to try Veigar again this patch.

Ever since the nerfs, I feel like all I can do is capitalize on my enemy being dumb (had one guy walk into my stun almost a full second and a half after it was up) or kill steal from my allies. That's not skill on my part! There's nothing rewarding about playing Veigar now, and it makes me too sad to play him :(

Kingsgrave3/26/2015, 3:19:10 AM1 votes
  1. His E needs to grant vision inside the cage
  2. His W delay needs to be way lower
  3. R range should be longer
  4. E duration or range should be increased
4th3t0s3/25/2015, 8:40:41 AM1 votes

.....for an ability with a base damage of 320(rank 5) and 100% ap ratio, the delay is fine. Assuming veigar hasn't had a terrible game, that's easily 1000 damage lategame from a non-ultimate ability. It's called kit synergy, if you're not using his w to clear waves, assume you'll need to incorporate his stun. His w was never meant to be a harass tool, stop insisting it should.

Hard Penetrator3/25/2015, 8:44:00 AM1 votes

Guys, can you tell me if Veigars E now stops Zed's Shadow dash? His shadow should get stopped imo,

4th3t0s3/25/2015, 8:49:05 AM1 votes

Technically, it's a targeted blink, so I doubt it. Personally, I'm more curious if it stops targeted dash-type abilities like fizz's Q