Let's talk about Blad

Thryale··12 votes·2,264 views

I've been going back and forth about whether I really want to open this can of worms or not. So here goes.

First, I understand vlad has problems. I understand that most of these problems mean that he will get an eventual rework. But that does not mean vlad is the worst champ in league, nor does he deserve some love in the interim.

I've been playing a bit of Vlad recently. He's really fun, and I greatly enjoy his playstyle. But I've been running into a really annoying problem with him recently, and this problem only increases in annoyance the longer I play him.

What problem? His endless sustan? His undodgeable harass? His overpowered troll pool? No, not the problems ppl have when playing against a Vlad. The problem I have is with his ult.

First, the dmg on his ult is very lack luster. "But! He increases all dmg dealt to the affected champion by 12%!" Yeah, that's nice, but honestly, it's not as strong as you'd like to think it is. It means that if you would normally deal 1000 to a single target that you'll get an additional 120 dmg out of it. 2000 for 240 dmg. With the base dmg being 350 and the ap ratio only being .7 ap, that's not a lot of dmg. Not to mention that by dealing 2000 dmg to a target to begin with will kill most all but the tankiest of targets. In fact, most of the time, a champ is killed before the magic dmg portion of his ult is even applied. Thus meaning that vlad's ult did far less dmg than most other ults to begin with. (if a champ had 2500/3300 hp upon ult being cast, and the champ dies before the pop, vlad's ult would have done roughly between 240-300 dmg.)

Is his ult weak? No, not really. Is it the most powerful ult in game? Not even close. But no, that's not the issue I have with his ult. The dmg could be even worse, or it could be twice as strong and I wouldn't care. (okay, maybe I would, but that's a different issue altogether)

No, my issue with his ult as actually been addressed by riot before. My issue is the fact that after casting his ult, vlad is locked out of using his abilities for almost an entire second. This is a crucial defect I don't think I've encountered on any champ before. Many champs have important combos and spell rotations that rely on using their ult mid rotation or even at the beginning.

Veigar for instance can go DFG > R > Q late game for either a free kill or to force a champ out of a fight while saving his E > W > Q combo for someone else.

But when vlad tries to do his R > E > Q > W combo he usually only ends up doing R > Q > W or even worse R > W due to the player pressing reqw in the middle of a chaotic teamfight, but due to being locked out of his spells, the player is shortchanged a important combo that could effectively decide the outcome of a team fight.

Riot has addressed this issue before, but it was some time ago, and I don't remember why they continue to leave his ult in the state it is, but I find it unacceptable. Why should any champ be denied the ability to make fast fluid combos? At the very least, riot should allow vlad's skills to be queued up while they are unavailable so that once they become available the player doesn't just instantly pool and thereby waste the ult and potentially leave an important enemy alive waiting for them when they get out of said pool.

I understand that a large portion of the playerbase has at one time considered vlad a hate worthy champ. But for the sake of champ equality, do not let the injustice of the ability lockout his ult brings be tolerated!

28 Comments

Grand Eleven15 votes

Upvote if you clicked on the thread just to see what champion he was talking about.

Thryale5 votes

Really? You've never heard about Bladimir? Wow, I feel old now. Was a common joke about bad vlad players back in the day.

Saixos4 votes

To be completely honest, I haven't experienced this issue at all, then again I am not an avid vlad player.

I believe the strength of the 12% damage increase isn't vlad, but vlad's team. Vlad is a very powerful teamfighting champion, and I find that the 12% damage increase can help a lot. Sure it doesn't seem like much on its own, but when you have 4 other people also dealing 12% more damage...

Well, you'll find that thanks to AOE abilities and marksmen 2000 hp over 5 opponents is fairly easy to accomplish given a time frame of 5 seconds. More often than not, something like 5000-7000 HP can be burned during a teamfight, and that'd be 840 bonus damage. I'd say that's a significant amount of damage.

And as for the casting time, it only affects transfusion and tides of blood, and is only 0.5 seconds long. I really don't think this is as much of an issue as you've described, vlad is/should be more of a sustained damage mage rather than a burst mage, and not have to rely on combos. And if he's somehow vulnerable during it, his pool can be used while casting.

Yets42402 votes

Wholeheartedly agree. Single most frustrating part of any champion's kit.

Papi DDS2 votes

I never log into forums, but as a vlad main since S1, I am going to put my thoughts on this.

First of all there are bugs that riot simply ignores such as fizz being able to do damage with ult when he is pooled.

Vlad is one of the most overpowered champions in my opinion. In plat/diamond games I am able to win my lane very hard and eventually go 1v3 and sometimes 1v5 and still destroy the enemy team alone.

I think you are just off in your rotation timers. I have no problem going r>e>q>w and coming into a second e>q before zhonya. With zhonya you can add an extra e>q garen-teed. I literally dive most people and unleash everything with ignite in half a second with out even giving them time to respond and without taking any turret damage.

I am not going to tell you runes/masteries to use because I literally switch between like 5 rune pages depending on what I am against or play style I feel like using. For someone new to vlad though the easiest way to go is full cd reduction for tons of eq rotations and low cd pools.

Having said all this there are extremely harsh counters to vlad which is normal and should exist for every champion or else they take the nerf hammer. Of the top of my head -Swain: his dots out trade you all the time if you have ignite down. Once he builds morello you will never be able to face him alone -ryze: outdamages you like swain until late game where you can go head to head with him. -riven: wins lane if she combos you level 2 -j4: one eq and you lose lane pretty much -fizz : wins because of bugg ult now -lux: can rape you from far away without taking damage

There are counters I dont fee like listing every counter but.. you get the idea he is an extremely viable champion and does not need a rework..just get better at him..

Saixos1 votes

Out of curiosity, because I like counterpicking, which adcs would you say give you the most trouble?

Papi DDS1 votes

Trist if shes fed and has that heal debuff can crit u dead. Usually though I never have a problem with adcs because you can 100% kill them with one full rotation ignite and second eq after pool. Getting close might be a problem versus good ones that stay away from you though.

Tiax1 votes

[{quoted}](name=El DMD Cubano,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uWJiKxyk,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-01-12T23:38:33.579+0000)

Trist if shes fed and has that heal debuff can crit u dead. Usually though I never have a problem with adcs because you can 100% kill them with one full rotation ignite and second eq after pool. Getting close might be a problem versus good ones that stay away from you though.

Yes I agree that Vlad handles most adcs in any environment but the only adc with a shot at surviving in TF or 1v1 (barring extreme outplays or fedness) is trist for the afore mentioned reasons.

KevinDelMarr2 votes

I want his auto attack animation to not be garbage. Moves slow and it has a slight delay as you cast, on top of it's pitiful damage, I don't want auto damage to be increased, since his bully potential is pretty good. It's farming early game that's annoying, and the auto attack is pretty crucial early.

Vlad is countered by all-in Champs and bruisers, so most of the people he faces Top. I think he can be good in mid-lane, but isn't easy to play.

YOU BEEN WARNED1 votes

Pls nerf vlad if you give this. For comparison on Vlad's dmg:

http://www.lolking.net/champions/xerath

http://www.lolking.net/champions/vladimir

Vlad does more damage on average than Xerath, that's insane. Xerath's job is dealing damage, Vladimir tanks AND deals damage.

That's aside from ranged toplaners being cancerous..

Earthlord Jazz1 votes

I thought it was just me or something. Everytime I ulted and EQ combo immediately after, my E would never go off. I thought I was just pressing it too quickly or something

InbredFeeder1 votes

While it is a problem that you cant cast E right off the bat, its not as big as I think your making it, when i play vlad im able to get off R -> Q -> E - > W -> E Before his ult expires, It may not be the most efficient, but it is still the same dps however you look at it.

Tiax1 votes

I played a decent amount of Vlad and noticed this but never was annoyed. Why? Because Vlad is a caster, not an assasin, people forget with riots assassin love and smart cast that most champs are supposed to cast a spell. Generally casting a spell takes time, it makes sense logically and balance wise most of the time. Vlad takes a bit of actual skill because his skill set is so clunky. Pretty fair imo that a manaless, sustain, aoe, burst, mage bruiser doesn't have a perfectly stream lined kit. All of his spells are strong by themselves, it's not an important part of his kit to use them all nearly instantly like an assasin.

Also I agree that his animation should be updated like ryze. The 12% works for Vlad as well as his team, only him and swain can increase the amOunt of damage ignite does which is why most Vlads should and often do take it. And finally, trist is good against Vlad. She got heal reduc with good self peel and is one of the few adcs who do well with bork, vayne true hp% dmg is nice if she wasn't so easily killed.

Thryale3 votes

No, just no. This is false information that has been perpetrated for a long time. Neither vlad, nor swain can increase the dmg of ignite. True dmg can never be altered whether it be increased or decreased.

(and before you mention it, ahri is a freak of nature and is to be shunned for all eternity)

Tiax1 votes

{quoted}

No, just no. This is false information that has been perpetrated for a long time. Neither vlad, nor swain can increase the dmg of ignite. True dmg can never be altered whether it be increased or decreased.

(and before you mention it, ahri is a freak of nature and is to be shunned for all eternity)

It's tested true, at least as of s3 as far as I personally know and I have not seen Rito change either champ in that regard since. Also excuse me because I was wrong about the Swain/Vlad thing, Poppy can do it as well.

Thryale1 votes

No, it has not been tested true. Riot has stepped in and specifically stated that it is not true.

Hemoplague will amplify almost all sources and types of damage, including damage from neutral monsters. Only true damage is exempt from amplification.

Quoted directly from the lol wiki.

balbraaksel1 votes

{quoted}

No, it has not been tested true. Riot has stepped in and specifically stated that it is not true.

Quoted directly from the lol wiki.

So this:

Ignite and Deathfire Grasp item.png Deathfire Grasp can provide extra burst damage due to the 20% damage increase from Torment.png Torment.

Isn't true? It's from also from the lol wiki: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Swain/Strategy

Thryale1 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-315-notes

  • Damage amplification abilities no longer work on true damage
  • Abilities affected:
  • Poppy (Diplomatic Immunity)
  • Swain (Torment)
  • Talon (Cutthroat)

So there you have it. End of story.

balbraaksel1 votes

I did believe you already though that you are right. That's because I noticed it too. So yeah, end of story. :p

I just wanted to point out that the lol wiki can be wrong too.

AbyssionKnight1 votes

Keep in mind if they remove that delay from his ult, they'll likely nerf damage or sustain on his kit to compensate. That's how riot normally deals with this sort of 'bug fix'.

Thryale1 votes

I wouldn't mind if they nerfed the % dmg increase form 12% to 10% if they made this change, honestly.

Also:

Hemoplague has no cast time and affects the target area instantly. However, there is a 0.5 second animation time that prevents Vladimir from using Transfusion and Tides of Blood. Sanguine Pool, summoner spells, and items can be used during this suppression time.

Found this on the lol wiki. Apparently, only his E and Q are locked out. Which explains all of those fail pools I make when trying to pull off a fast spell rotation.

Vesarixx1 votes

What bugs me more is that he needs to stop to cast his E, if his abilities didn't have the cast times he would be in a much better spot.

junglerboy161 votes

12% Bonus damage is REALLY small in a 1v1.—But Vlad's ult is AOE, and 12% increased damage across 12,000-15,000 total enemy team health actually is a lot. Vlad shouldn't be 1v1 bursting people, he should be soaking damage and then spitting it back out as AOE. If your team deals a total of 9000 damage during your ult in a team fight (that's proportional to killing 3 enemies and significantly injuring the other 2 assuming they were all full health with an average team comp) your team deals 1080 extra damage. If Vlad's ult were single target or only affected his own damage then I would say he absolutely deserves more of a damage amp than that, however, since it is AOE and applies to your team's damage as well, it is remarkably strong.

About the issue with delay on other abilities, I'd say that they should make it so he can queue them up, but keep the delay.

Thryale1 votes

the problem here tho, is that's not exactly how league works. simply doing dmg doesn't win teamfights. it doesn't matter if team A deals 5000 or 7000 dmg to team B if they don't kill anyone. But if team B does 3000 dmg and kills one key target and manages to drop another dangeriously low causing both teams to disengage, then team B won despite doing less dmg.

This isn't a perfect analogy as all analogies are flawed to some extent, but you get the idea.

also, I do agree, if riot doesn't want to remove the delay/animation time, then they should at least implement a queue up system so that the player doesn't waste any key presses.

junglerboy161 votes

I completely agree that in almost any situation, killing an enemy is superior to not and just getting one low. However, in situations where you get all or almost all of the enemy team low enough that they cannot fight again, but you lose a team mate (even a fed carry), that is a won fight because you can either re-engage them immediately or force an objective while they have to either stand by and watch it die or return to base and heal while you take it.

get fkn bopped1 votes

{quoted} With the base dmg being 350 and the ap ratio only being .7 ap, that's not a lot of dmg.

Oh really? Then explain to me why Orianna's ultimate, that has the same ap ratio and 50 less base damage, is cried about more than Vlad's. I understand the utility but "muh 100-0"

Thryale1 votes

Ori doesn't 100-0 ppl. Not unless she's ridiculously fed, and you have no mr.

Also, the dmg pop on vlads ult has a lot more counter play than ori's ult. Vlad's ult takes 5 secs to pop, which gives the player plenty of time to heal up or us a saving ability like zhonyas, spell shields, or barriers. Ori's ult deals its dmg a lot sooner and with less warning. Especially if there is a ball delivery system on her team.

aaronconlin1 votes

I've always liked Vlad, and I agree his ult is kind of lackluster and not really rewarding at all. Using his ult isn't really threatening to the enemy like it is for most other champions. I don't know if his ult should be buffed or simply like you said, allow abilities to be casted right after.

Since it increases incoming damage by 12%, I always assumed the ult was best suited for team fights where there would be multiple enemies hit and your teammates adding to the damage.

Maybe the end damage could be increased by an amount equal to the damage dealt by that 12%. IE, if 1000 damage was dealt, it would be increased to 1120. 120 bonus damage dealt during the ult's duration, so if the end damage would have dealt 300 damage, it would be increased to 420 damage. Not a huge buff, but a little more rewarding.

Another possibility could be playing into his theme of blood, draining life force etc. Instead of flat damage dealt at the end, it could deal a damage over time effect, probably the same amount of damage. For example, 300 damage over 3 seconds, or 420 damage if the above buff was added too. Maybe this could apply a grievous wound, to reduce the enemies chance of simply sustaining the damage, or it could heal Vlad for a certain amount (maybe the amount of bonus damage dealt by the 12% over time)

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