Balancing Le Blanc

Earl Eulrich·Feb 11, 2014·4 votes·1,106 views

Well, it quite obvious LB has some flaws right now and is just too strong as a 1v1 laner in almost any matchup, offering almost no counterplay to her Opponent if he didn´t pick a very specific Champion like Fizz or Sivir to stop her CC-Chain.

So my solution would be to Focus on her combo-casting, increasing her skillcap a fair bit and reducing the amount of CC and dmg she can put out the same time:

-Change the q Trigger, so the dmg (But not the silence!) proccs if it´s followed up by another q or w; if it´s followed up by the e the silence proccs (but not the dmg!).

-Similar for the chain, nerf the base-duration of the chain to 1sec, but if it´s followed by the w or another e while the chain is still attached but did not procc the root yet it should still be 1,5sec.

Right now laning against LB is very toxic, as you cannot really leave your turret unless you have clear Vision at her jungler - because it´s damn easy for her to just lock you down at lvl 3 without any counterplay (silence->root->jungler jumping at you), while the supposed counterplay to her during laning should be to push her at her own turret and Keep her there. Changing her Combo so she either does apply full dmg or set sth. up with a heavy cc chain would offer way more counterplay to her, without really denying her strenghts (high versatility, very good at catching People out) - and it would LB Players to really think about in which order they use her spells instead of just throwing everything they got at the Opponent.

26 Comments

AmazonFeb 14, 20146 votes

Le Blanc is perfect the way she is.

JackAquaFeb 11, 20145 votes

Just look up her weaknesses and you should be able to stomp her. I main(ed) LB in season 3 and there are a lot of things you can do against her.

She doesn't farm very well -> push her lane -> Take a champ that can farm well, push and not die when getting ganked.
She has a lot of counters who are really really annoying.
If she doesn't hit her chain, her "finisher" will not proc (Q -> R -> W -> E). Most champions survive easily if they aren't hit by the chain. Use your minions as a shield -> push to have more minions / be aggressive when your minions pop up, since you'll have a wall of minions protecting you.
If you out-range her, but still don't die if she gets too close (Galio, Heimi, Ziggs etc.), she will rage all hell loose.
Consider getting pots at the start to out sustain her.
6 And much much more ! Just look it up yourself !

Sire HippingtonFeb 11, 20143 votes

The thing is that her weaknesses only exist in solo Q, the big issue is that her main prob early is that u can push her into her tower, but with a decent jungler by her side this becomes her strength, she just freezes the lane, and if u get out of ur tower range, u eat her silemce+snare lockdown and her jungler kills u, or she roams creating kills for her team, she can easily help her jungler counterjungling and so on. All on her own, she's no big deal unless fed, but the combination of high mobillity and heavy singletarget lockdown makes her extremly dangerous in combination with any aditional mate, while she's extremly save vs enemy catches with her easy escape. And if fed, she can blow up a tank facechecking her.

Most of ur counters apply to bad LB players without teammates, the problem is the insane potential of a well played LB, playing coordinated with her team and creating picks all over the map

MackleDogeFeb 11, 20142 votes

I kind of get where you're coming from, but I just thought I'd point out that any assassin champion is really strong if they have team coordination and can create picks. Anytime that you run across a team that actually effectively communicates and plays together as a team in soloque they're going to be able to be more effective and stronger on their champions, whether their mid picks Leblanc or their mid picks Zed.

AhrisFeb 11, 20142 votes

The counterplay leblanc has is lacking for how strong she is in lane. Her only counterplay is to shove, but if you shove you will be vulnerable to a gank. Forcing you to farm wolves and wraiths.

Also leblanc shouldnt be able to completely destroy Ahri everytime the match up is decided in champion select if I first pick ahri. It is ridiculous and riot have said that the game shouldnt be decided from champ select, and here it is leblanc vs ahri.

MackleDogeFeb 11, 20142 votes

Sorry to break it to you, but you really shouldn't be first picking mid to begin with. Anyways, match ups aren't determined in champion select. Just because it's Leblanc vs Ahri doesn't mean it's a free win for Leblanc. I'm sorry, but every time I see comments like this it just seems really obvious that the result is based off of lack of game sense in how to handle the lane and player skill comparison between the lane opponents. There are no free wins, I don't care if it's a counter or not, nothing is guaranteed and if any lane has the opportunity for counterplay and outplay potential, it's mid lane.

AhrisFeb 11, 20142 votes

Sorry to break it to you but leblanc vs ahri is a really hard lane for ahri. Its not a free lane for any champ, meaning even if you pick ziggs, he might lose, works for any OP champ. But the amount of difficulty of fighting against one is too high for ahri.

You have to be like diamond tier ahri to beat a silver leblanc. How unbalanced is that? Being a threat to ahri in any point of game is a proof of stupid balancing.

Ive went against many leblanc, the strategy of fighting against leblanc as ahri is to push lane with q at lvl 1. So what? Now she is vulnerable to ganks. Sure you have trinket, ONE trinket.

Thre is no opportunity to counterplay or outplay leblanc as ahri as long as she has her silence.

MackleDogeFeb 11, 20142 votes

People will always find excuses and reasons to complain. Can't win your lane don't play the champion. Have a bad match up, get jungle to cover and roam top or bottom to make a play. Lack of creativity or ability isn't the same as a champion being broken.

AhrisFeb 11, 20141 votes

Right ziggs is balanced. So is every OP champs. Tell me how to win the lane? I win most of my matchup as ahri, or becomes a farm lane, but how much the enemy brings while being crazy strong is a proof of OP.

Now I am assuming you think leblanc is balanced. Tell me of how to be creative against leblanc if she will q r w e you during the silence duration? You cant dodge her silence either. She roams so well as well. Her cool down is lower than ahris cool down.

Even the jungler fails to trade against leblanc. I roam when I am 6, and reaching 6 takes ages in high elo where people know to shut down the enemy champ when they are at their weakest?

Or what ahri needs buffs? I dont think so.

AhrisFeb 11, 20142 votes

yeah you dont need to push as ahri, but now you will be farming under tower when leblanc is roaming and winning other lanes.

Have about you push, you ask? Well then since leblanc forces me to farm under tower now I am lvls behind. Leblanc pushing have NO risk at all. Even if she pushes lane, she can run with her w anyway.

Leblanc is ungankable while not even falling off late game.

MackleDogeFeb 11, 20142 votes

They really need to fix this nesting limit because it makes extended conversations impossible. As far as what I think is balanced or not, that's not even relevant, nor really is what you think is balanced or not. Riot hasn't changed Leblanc or Ahri this patch and there isn't anything on PBE, I don't understand why you people think the solution to things is just spamming the nerf or buff switch over and over. That doesn't solve anything. The fact is that some champions will always be better than other champions and there will always be bad matchups for champions. Leblanc is a bad matchup for Ahri? Don't play Ahri. This isn't rocket science. Play Ziggs or pile on lane pressure and play safe with the satchel charge. Play Orianna and wave clear and shield off damage with the E. Not being able to play safe in lane early isn't caused by champion match up, it's caused by player mechanic and lacking map awareness. Are you going to get ganked, probably, but use your trinket and smart positioning to make the best of the pressure and make sure you ping so that the other lanes know where the enemy jungler is.

And please, stop throwing around hyperbole and straw man arguments, Leblanc is not ungankable, no champion is. Does she have an escape? Sure she does. So does Gragas and Ziggs and Zed and plenty of other champions. That just requires more coordination and positioning by the laner and the jungler to make sure you get some good damage or CC before or after the W.

ZaikyoFeb 18, 20141 votes

I'm with Doge, there are bad matchups for everyone. If you're not willing learn the other champions that you need to for these poor matchups, then you're going to have a hard time. Try out Morgana after the opponent picks LeBlanc. Play it safe, use your shield wisely and if she all-ins you then counter engage. You could also rock AP Cow, because it's hilarious. You pulv or headbutt LeBlanc as she's Distorting onto you to proc the Sigil, and her Distort gets interuptted and the damage is prevented as is the sigil proc. It's hilarious for the cow, and sad days for LeBlanc.

Also, Huzzah! First post on this crazy community beta thing! I even found a familiar name! :D

RitmannApr 18, 20141 votes

He explained the problem with pushing. A simple poke consisting of Q (On-target - cannot be dodged) and W (Long range "skill shot" with AoE - difficult to dodge/easy to land) will take half of your health with any mid meta pick, and you will be left silenced only able to trade one autoattack, if you're lucky that is. Pushing will simply cost your life in 2-3 waves. Also if you push and you hide behind minions, there's nothing to stop her from dashing over minions, Q and E and then back, again without counter-play due to the silence.

But yes, there are few counter-picks to LB, but she will almost always have the upper hand, and she can poke without counterplay.

Everyone will have their nerf round, this time it's LeBroken.

Will UwU for RPFeb 11, 20144 votes

In my opinion, LeBlanc shouldn't be nerfed that much like how you wrote in your post. This is because Leblanc is like the hardest champ to team fight :/ She's good 1v1, but she's also squishy. Just rush some MR early shall do the job. As long as she doesn't get more than 6 kills early-mid game, she won't be much of a threat :P

Earl EulrichFeb 11, 20144 votes

i play a fair share of le blanc myself - and i think right now she´s kinda toxic to play against. It´s very similar to Yasuo, the lane is pretty much decided by the Champion Picks, if you didn´t pick anything strong against Le Blanc you just cannot fight back, unless le blanc makes mistakes. And I think she doesn´t transition to bad into clashes..if she´s ahead she can just burst down a tank, if not she can still sneak around and catch a squishy off guard. She offers incredible initiation as soon as someone is slightly out of position and she´s also great for clean up. There sure is a reason y she´s perma picked in the NA LCS atm.

AhrisFeb 11, 20141 votes

I kind of like this guys idea. It actually forces leblanc to actually use her e as a silence and damage tool, instead of just q r w e, decreasing counterplay since your silenced for the duration.

With the change hourglass will be a great counter to really prevent her from bursting you down if you hourglass in the right moment.

AhrisFeb 11, 20141 votes

Also I had a game where i went 5/0 against leblanc as ahri. Yes I beat her since I was just that good as ahri. But she was able to burst me down if I didn't run with my ultimate or she didnt ignite me... She is a threat at any point of game, as well as being able to be fed really easily.

TVAUGHANFeb 14, 20143 votes

she shouldn't be nerfed at all, you guys are crazy. she takes skill to play. and late game really isn't much of anything but a support. stop crying because you got wacked by a LB pro. if she got nerfed she would be useless.

MarthianFeb 16, 20141 votes

Skill shouldn't equal being devastating. And if her falling off late game is a problem, then she should have her numbers tweaked so her early game isn't so broken, and she doesn't fall off late-game. Also she still can burst down key squishy targets late game from my experience anyways.

Also, everyone keeps saying if they nerf someone, they become useless. This hasn't really ever been the case (except a few exceptions, and with the right build, they can still dominate.)

HowPlayGAEMFeb 12, 20142 votes

I personally think she's ridiculously boring to play and her kit has nothing to do with her theme of deception and trickery. Its just simple nuking.

In addition to that, she's very binary as you said. Certain champs shut her down into uselessness, other champs get shut down and make her fed.

I have not seen Riot comment anything on LeBlanc, but I do honestly think she needs a kit rework.

BillyboyjoeMar 5, 20142 votes

I feel as if adding a small cool down between her reactivating her W might help balance her some what.

Since diving in blowing up a carry and diving out before anyone can respond is not really productive to counter play.

But anything to give an opponent some time to react would suit.

AhrisFeb 11, 20141 votes

I am pretty sure with this change leblanc will do what she used to, q w. Well i guess its good since with this change you can actually trade back as ahri.

Earl EulrichFeb 11, 20141 votes

that´s pretty much the point there, right now there´s no fighting back against a well playing le blanc, it´s just sielence->root->LB is out of reach again, and you´re so low on health that you shouldn´t stay till her cds are up again. unfortunately. I think the dmg is pretty much alright for an assassin, but she really shouldn´t combine it with that much single target cc, it´s just like kassadin. Fun to play, but really terrible to play against.

ZaikyoFeb 18, 20141 votes

I kind of like some of your ideas as I tend to support making champions more skillful, I do however have a few questions about your E change in particular. Why does it seem that in addition to adding complexity, you're also lowering the power of a spell? Unless I'm misunderstanding. Let's say with your proposed change I land my chains. If I then follow up with my ulted chains (2chainzOP), will the only benefit be the increased duration of the first root by half a second? Am I losing the second root/damage entirely?

I don't have many qualms with adding difficulty to a champion, even one like LeBlanc (that most people agree is already difficult to play to full potential), but if we're adding difficulty while simultaneously lowering the reward for pulling it off...then I'm a bit less keen. I probably am just misreading it though, please clarify if you can!

Earl EulrichFeb 20, 20141 votes

Let's say with your proposed change I land my chains. If I then follow up with my ulted chains (2chainzOP), will the only benefit be the increased duration of the first root by half a second? Am I losing the second root/damage entirely?

So, with my changes your first chain would hit for a 1,5sec root, the amplified chain would hit for a 1sec root - if you don´t follow it up with a w, that is. So if you step->e->e you still have a 2,5sec lockdown with high range, which should be powerful enough. And if you use it to defend yourself, or you take a higher risk by going e->e->w you can still land a 3sec root. (not to mention if you go q->e->e->w you´ll have the silence before the first chain proccs, so you still have a kinda infinite-cc-chain, just with less dmg on top than before my changes would apply).

Ofc she will lose some of her power, as i think the combination of CC+DMG is just too toxic (there´s not much difference playing against Kassadin or LB right now, only she has the way better laning Phase, while he has slightly better lategame clashes) - but she can still Burst as she used to, or set up kills like she used to - just maybe not all at the same time, and she really would need to pay some Attention to her spellroattions to do so.

mynameiscrashApr 13, 20141 votes

Leblanc LEBLENK