Why the f*** can Xin Zhao heal off of towers?

Gnart Even Close·Feb 1, 2016·78 votes·5,375 views

If any of you have seen the ridiculous videos 1v1 ing towers when they are at full hp, you might wonder why. Even if Riot allows Xin to be released in this new, ridiculously broken state, can he at the very least not be allowed to heal off of towers? Please? There's absolutely no reason for it and it should never exist, like being able to lifesteal off of towers. There's a reason that sort of thing is not allowed. ffs Riot, please just remove that at the very least if nothing else about the changes.

93 Comments

Blumpkin NationFeb 1, 20169 votes

He was always able to heal on his 3rd hit. I don't think that should apply to non-sentient enemies lol. Rather, he should be rewarded to trading with champions. His heal should be reduced for hits on minions, and amplified for hits on champions.

But completely removed from Turrets/Inhibs etc.

The Yetii RiderFeb 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

He was always able to heal on his 3rd hit. I don't think that should apply to non-sentient enemies lol. Rather, he should be rewarded to trading with champions. His heal should be reduced for hits on minions, and amplified for hits on champions.

But completely removed from Turrets/Inhibs etc.

He needs the heal to be good in order to jungle. Unless you're saying reduced for minions specifically and not monsters.

Increasing the heal vs champs is risky. Xin already does well with lifesteal in his build, and Sated Devourer would make him really hard to kill.

Blumpkin NationFeb 2, 20161 votes

Sorry, I rarely ever have interaction with the jungle so I didn't think to mention that. His heal is fine in the jungle since his primary damages are single target for the most part.

Gnart Even CloseFeb 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He was always able to heal on his 3rd hit. I don't think that should apply to non-sentient enemies lol. Rather, he should be rewarded to trading with champions. His heal should be reduced for hits on minions, and amplified for hits on champions.

But completely removed from Turrets/Inhibs etc.

well said

KillerKellFeb 1, 20168 votes

This... um... this isn't new.

His W, every THIRD ATTACK gives back AP Scaling HP.

Hit a Minion, hit a Champion, hit a Monster... hey, HP! Hit a Champion, hit a Minion, hit a Turret... hey, HP! Hit a Turret, hit a Turret, hit a Turret... hey, HP!

Every. Third. Attack.

TurquoiseYoshiFeb 2, 20162 votes

But now he can build AD and do the same thing. He now has 100% scaling damage to towers from AD rather than 50% from AP, and now he can build the AD to synergize with the rest of his kit and still get tons of healing.

KillerKellFeb 2, 20164 votes

All true... but the point is he's ALWAYS been able to heal off of Turrets. It's why he's always been a major Split Push/Siege Champion, he can burn turrets with his Q giving bonus damage, his W ramping up his AS, and his W Passive getting him HP back every 3 Hits.

It's nothing new.

I've been soloing Turrets with Xin since I started playing (only Pre-Season 4), no wave needed. He's ALWAYS been able to do this, and he's ALWAYS been one of those Solo Baron Champions.

Now, he's just MORE effective at those things.

People are acting like this is new... it's not.

lonesome zorroFeb 2, 20166 votes

you mean there are towers in this game? I haven't seen any since season 5

Sneakyy XDFeb 1, 20165 votes

Because his heal isn't lifesteal

Irelia does it, too.

SithesisLordFeb 2, 20161 votes

Difference is, Irelia doesn´t heal off of towers. Heck, the true damage doesn´t even work on them.

JJI744Feb 2, 20163 votes

She does heal, though you are correct about the true damage not aspplying.

AHeroNamedHawkeFeb 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because his heal isn't lifesteal

Irelia does it, too.

Aatrox

Rook LouxFeb 2, 20161 votes

Aatrox w doesnt proc on towers

XeyndrenFeb 2, 20165 votes

If you read Xin's kit, he heals because of a passive, the passive is that he heals every third attack... it has nothing to do with sapping life or anything, just because he is fighting a tower shouldnt change anything. a passive is a passive.

KnKitsuneFeb 1, 20163 votes

Sounds like someone got his/her ass beat by a Zhao Xin.

TurquoiseYoshiFeb 2, 20164 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QryfgrfROY

SheWas0nlyLvl17Feb 1, 20162 votes

There's a lot of cons to building AP Xin.

WolfenstinFeb 2, 20162 votes

Now it scales with AD though, not just AP.

SasogwaFeb 2, 20162 votes

I'm sorry but Xin already 1v1ed towers before/ 1v2ed nexus turrets and it has pretty much always been the fun of AP XIn to duel towers. That sure doesn't justify the buff, but it's a bit sad to remove this fun from xin for this.

AnidanFeb 2, 20162 votes

Riot removed AP Rengar, AP Yi, AP Tryn... it was only a matter of time.

The DeckownerFeb 2, 20161 votes

ap tryn still works with rageblade, so as yi

AnidanFeb 2, 20161 votes

That's not AP working, that's (ab)use of an item allowing a suboptimal playstyle to work because the item itself is strong enough to basically carry it to the 'functioning' side of the spectrum. The way AP Tryn and AP Yi originally functioned has been nuked from orbit, for good reason. AP Yi isn't the Alpha Strike demon from Hell come to the Rift for free pentas, and AP Tryn isn't the alpha and omega of backdooring/split-pushing as a result of that, and Rageblade doesn't change either of those.

EnrovyFeb 2, 20162 votes

I mean sivhd made an ap xin video a long time ago... and supposedly the w is life gained instead of heal, still cant tell the difference...

AnidanFeb 2, 20161 votes

Would 'life gained' by affected by Grievous Wounds, since that applies only to healing? O.o That's some archaic terminology that needs to be consolidated if not, because that'd mean it has no effective differentiating factor from a heal.

BlunzorFeb 1, 20161 votes

[deleted]

SeargentAnusFeb 1, 201614 votes

He brings a lot to the game without healing off of towers. He has great disruption, peel, and single target focus.

BlunzorFeb 1, 20163 votes

If he builds squishy, all's you have to do is stun him twice and he's dead without healing on anything. If he builds tank, his damage isn't enough so his heal doesn't matter. I don't know where you pull "peel and single target focus" out from. He only has good damage if he builds squishy, and he only has good peel if his single target focus sucks compared to other champions.

SeargentAnusFeb 1, 20168 votes

He acts like a juggernaut. The changes on PBE for the most part are good for him. You don't build him full squish or full AD. You build him inbetween like a Renekton or a Poppy .

BlunzorFeb 1, 20161 votes

If I wanted to play poppy and renekton, I would play poppy or renekton.

Read what I said again.

AbyssphereFeb 1, 201613 votes

{quoted}

If I wanted to play poppy and renekton, I would play poppy or renekton.

Read what I said again.

I think you are the one who needs to read again. You're so desperate to be indignant that you somehow managed to turn "You build halfway between Renekton and Poppy" into "You play the same way as Renekton and Poppy". Itemising similarly to a champion doesn't mean you play like them in any way, shape or form.

SlippySloopFeb 2, 20161 votes

So...if the itemizing doesn't count as a way, a shape or a form, what do it does?

AbyssphereFeb 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So...if the itemizing doesn't count as a way, a shape or a form, what do it does?

I am not sure what you are trying to say because "what do it does", but no, itemisation doesn't affect playstyle. Just because you build an item that Renekton also builds doesn't mean you do anything in the same way he does.

SlippySloopFeb 2, 20161 votes

...Except, buying the same item as somebody else would fall in line with "doing anything the same way he does". You do understand the meaning of the words "any" and "anything", right?

AbyssphereFeb 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

...Except, buying the same item as somebody else would fall in line with "doing anything the same way he does". You do understand the meaning of the words "any" and "anything", right?

Yes, I understand those words. Do you not understand that making the same purchasing decision as another champion is different to behaving similarly to them when doing actual things in game? I said Xin doesn't PLAY anything like Poppy or Renekton and purchasing the same items as them has nothing to do with his gameplay.

The original complaint was that Xin itemising similarly to Poppy/Renekton was a bad thing because if this guy wanted to play Poppy or Renekton, he'd just pick them. But you can buy the same items as someone else and have a completely different playstyle with that item than another champion does. His comment was equivalent to saying "If I wanted to play Lux, I'd pick her" after someone pointing out that her and Cassiopeia both buy Deathcap.

I have no idea why you'd even bother arguing this. What significance does Xin Zhao choosing to buy an item that another champion often buys have? Do you really think that him and Poppy both liking to build AD tank makes the choice between them meaningless? Or did you just not understand that the whole reason I was replying to this person in the first place was to inform them that itemisation has nothing to do with gameplay?

SlippySloopFeb 3, 20161 votes

Except buying items is something you actually do in the game, Xin, Poppy and Renekton are all played with a set of three abilities and an ultimate, you clearly haven't been on the Internet long enough to recognize when someone is fucking around with you, and, again, itemisation is something you do while playing the game and therefore is a part of the gameplay experience.

AbyssphereFeb 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Except buying items is something you actually do in the game, Xin, Poppy and Renekton are all played with a set of three abilities and an ultimate, you clearly haven't been on the Internet long enough to recognize when someone is fucking around with you, and, again, itemisation is something you do while playing the game and therefore is a part of the gameplay experience.

You know what I meant. Yes it's something you do in the game but the shop is not the same thing as... literally any other part of the game and is not comparable with actually taking any action whatsoever with your champion. There's no point taking the action of buying stuff in the shop into account with gameplay for... incredibly obvious reasons that don't need to be explained. Point still stands that what Xin Zhao does when running around the rift is not made particularly similar to what Poppy does by virtue of their items.

I'm not going to argue the point with you anymore for what are again obvious reasons, but the fact that you are the one spending their day on the internet irritating people suggests that you're probably newer to the internet than I am. It's not usual for people to do that.

Gnart Even CloseFeb 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

He acts like a juggernaut. The changes on PBE for the most part are good for him. You don't build him full squish or full AD. You build him inbetween like a or a .

he's not a juggernaut because he has a long dash and he has decent cc. juggernauts are supposed to be really tanky and high damage, but low mobility and low cc. xin is high damage, high cc, high mobility as of now, but not very tanky. if they wanted to push him into more of a bruiser than an assassin role that would be fine, but that would require significant changes to his interactions with devourer and his base stats. he would make much more sense as a "diving fighter" who could dive in and single out a target in a teamfight and then duel them, but he would need a jarvan like wall after his ult to make something like that feasible.

LeBlanc JameśFeb 3, 20161 votes

Is Malphite not a juggernaut?

Gnart Even CloseFeb 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Is Malphite not a juggernaut?

malphite is not a juggernaut because of the mobility his ult gives him and his q giving him lots of movement speed to catch up to someone. however, he does do a lot of damage and is incredibly tanky like a juggernaut.

LeBlanc JameśFeb 3, 20161 votes

Never mind, I misread what you said previously.

Gnart Even CloseFeb 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Never mind, I misread what you said previously.

ok =)

Rook LouxFeb 2, 20161 votes

Juggernaut would imply he's immobile, he still has a gap closer.

MAGA MAN X 2020Feb 2, 20161 votes

He has a strong slow, knock up, aoe knockback so he theoretically can buy a squishy time if they get dove. That said, I agree with the point you're making. So many people on these forums are freaking out about Xin but he's still going to be the same as he is on live, just viable. I used to main Xin for a long time and noticed that certain champs like Leona and Amumu could completely ruin me because, if i'm not autoing im not surviving. As far as the 1v1 tower thing goes, I don't think that's out of line as the heal is based on every third auto and not based on life steal or anything like that. As you stated, if he builds in a way that allows him to do that, he's also building in a way that allows the opposing team to delete him in a stun. Overall, I see nothing wrong with Xin being viable and don't understand why everyone thinks it will be a repeat of when he was initially launched. Deal with him the same way you deal with Jax, Fiora, and all of the other fighters that play the same way.

Gnart Even CloseFeb 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He has a strong slow, knock up, aoe knockback so he theoretically can buy a squishy time if they get dove. That said, I agree with the point you're making. So many people on these forums are freaking out about Xin but he's still going to be the same as he is on live, just viable. I used to main Xin for a long time and noticed that certain champs like Leona and Amumu could completely ruin me because, if i'm not autoing im not surviving. As far as the 1v1 tower thing goes, I don't think that's out of line as the heal is based on every third auto and not based on life steal or anything like that. As you stated, if he builds in a way that allows him to do that, he's also building in a way that allows the opposing team to delete him in a stun. Overall, I see nothing wrong with Xin being viable and don't understand why everyone thinks it will be a repeat of when he was initially launched. Deal with him the same way you deal with Jax, Fiora, and all of the other fighters that play the same way.

nobody should be able to 1v1 towers. that's just digusting

ahferroin7Feb 2, 20161 votes

A better statement would be: Nobody should be able to 1v1 towers without full build and/or an amazing lead.

A full build Heimerdinger can 1v1 towers as long as there's no interference, a late game Nasus can easily 1v1 towers (and he even does it faster if the entire enemy team is there trying to kill him), a late game Veigar can almost 1v1 towers, a full build Sion can 1v1 towers.

The thing that makes this such BS is not that he can 1v1 towers, it's that he can do so so early in the game without having almost any items.

Rook LouxFeb 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Deal with him the same way you deal with Jax, Fiora, and all of the other fighters that play the same way.

So ban him?

MAGA MAN X 2020Feb 3, 20161 votes

Lol. Nah man just learn to counter them. It's not rocket science.

Gnart Even CloseFeb 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He brings a lot to the game without healing off of towers. He has great disruption, peel, and single target focus.

idk why riot doesn't just focus on those strengths instead of increasing the ridiculous healing on towers. idek why it exists in the first place, but it's been around for a while. i thought it had been nerfed enough that it wasn't possible, but the pbe buffs completely changed that.

Fitz n The FoolFeb 1, 20161 votes

Xin can really only 1v1 towers with a full AP build, which makes him squishy as fuck and he doesn't do very good damage in team fights with the AP build. I don't see a problem here.