The Problem With Riven (Read before downvote pls, this isn't just another circlejerk)

Gnart Even Close··58 votes·3,455 views

Many people flame about Riven, and they are somewhat justified.
Here are my major problems with Riven: She's manaless She's too mobile Her shield scales with AD She has AD scalings on her AD scalings (aka her ult) She has a ranged AOE execute She has naturally good defensive stats (i.e. she gets MR per level) She has too much CC She snowballs too hard, and is incredibly weak when behind

Naturally, if I'm going to complain, I should offer some solutions.

I would like to see Riven have energy, as that would limit her spamming and require more thoughtful use of her abilities. This would also prevent her from abusing her mobility. Another option for the resource bar would be to show the charges of her passive.

Her passive is fine; in fact, it takes up some of her power budget while rewarding good mechanics, which is awesome. However, if she did use energy, it would be nice to give her higher costs but restore energy (10/12.5/15) on consuming charges of her passive. This would again reward higher level play while limiting Riven to an extent.

Her Q is her bread and butter move, and I would not change it much, except the energy. I would suggest something like 25 for the first two casts, and 35 for the third cast at all levels. Fully using her Q would cost 85 energy, but only 55/47.5/40 if you used the passive.

Her W is fine, but is kind of obnoxious because she doesn't need the extra CC. I would suggest an energy cost of around 65 at all ranks (this would be less with her passive).

I would change the scaling on her E shield to be 15% bonus health. Riven should not be rewarded defensively for building offensive items. That is just a stupid idea (like having shields scale with AP). I would suggest an energy cost of 60 at all ranks. This point seems to be the area of the most controversy, and honestly, the scaling isn't that important. Remember that a lot of what I say about game design is personal opinion.

Her ult giving her bonus AD that scales with her AD is pretty stupid, as it literally gives her AD scalings on her AD scalings. Instead, she should get flat AD, something like 40/50/60 bonus AD. The general trend is that champs with energy have no costs on their ultimates, so I would say Riven shouldn't be an exception. I think the enhanced spells and increased autoattack range are awesome, so those should definitely stay. Wind Slash is a core part of Riven, and also part of her lore (wink wink Yasuo wink wink). I would personally make the cone narrower, but increase the projectile speed. That way, it would be about the same difficulty to hit a single target, but would prevent her from chunking everyone's health.

How would this affect Riven? First of all, Riven wouldn't snowball quite as hard, because her shield and ult (not talking about Wind Slash) wouldn't scale with AD anymore. She would also get flat AD on her ult, making her stronger when she is behind. Second of all, the health scaling on her shield would reward bruiser builds more, including items such as Black Cleaver and Randuin's Omen. This would also prevent Riven from snowballing so hard, but reward her more for a mix of offense and defense. Defense items are usually cheaper, allowing Riven to be stonger when behind. The energy costs would also prevent her from snowballing so much, but would not be oppressive. Her base damages could be buffed as well in compensation. The energy costs would also prevent Riven from being too mobile. The passive would specifically reward her from going in, by restoring energy on basic attacks. However, it would not reward her from running away.

Riven would probably build: Ravenous Hydra, Black Cleaver, Bloodthirster, Randuin's Omen / Dead Man's Plate, Ninja Tabi / Mercury Treads, and either Guardian's Angel or Last Whisper.

Now if you've read all of this, flame away. Or offer constructive criticism :)

Edit: As someone pointed out, with all of these changes, it would be basically mandatory to buff Riven's health regen to normal levels. I changed the energy costs because they were a bit too high as JustMyBassCannon pointed out.

Riot has given Riven a resource on the PBE known as "Edge" (because Riven wasn't edgy enough already). Her Wind Slash damage now scales with stacks of Edge instead of missing HP. Edge is built up by proccing her passive (which no longer stacks), gives her bonus AD, falls off when out of combat, and is consumed by using Wind Slash.

167 Comments

Deep Terror Nami45 votes

Naturally, if I'm going to complain, I should offer some solutions.

Get out of here with that common sense bullshit!

Gnart Even Close10 votes

lol true

NoobieKnight13 votes

Riven is not in a good spot right now as it is. With Juggernauts and ranged bruisers (Looking at Quinn) dominating the top lane, she just doesn't have the wiggle room to do much at the moment. While these changes are interesting and I'm not shooting them down, changing her like this before much more prominent top laners are addressed would make her next to unplayable. Also. BoxBox would cry.

Gnart Even Close4 votes

I feel like as long as the animation cancels remained, a lot of high level Riven players would still be happy. Also, if they fixed Riven's bugs, nobody would cry. Juggernauts are a huge problem as well. I would just like to see Riven in a better spot right now, where everyone doesn't constantly flame about her and she can be decent when behind.

OnanThaMan7 votes

Coincidentally i think the animation canceling is the one thing that should go, and frankly i don't think anyone should have animation cancelling.

I'd be fine with some buffs if she needed it, just get rid of that bullshit please.

Baseball3b9 votes

If you took away the animation canceling then you'd see bronze rivens doing a shit ton of damage just by pressing Q and AAing in between.

She'd literally be the definition of faceroll.

OnanThaMan4 votes

I'm sorry i thought that was what riot had intended, they said it themselves the animation canceling was a bug they would let stay in game, but weren't balancing around.

And what would be worse dealing damage by alternating her q's and aas or unloading her full burst in a few aas because she canceled her animations.

Baseball3b6 votes

Regardless, it's not a healthy decision.

The only reason why you see Riven at higher ELOs and occasionally in competitive play is because of the animation canceling.

If you wanted to see her viable competitively without the cancels, she'd need some pretty good sized buffs, which to be honest, would generate much more QQ than her animation canceling.

qetzel2 votes

Then they saw that people liked it and balanced around it. That was what the 4.1/4.2 nerfs were for.

Gnart Even Close2 votes

also, kiting is part of animation cancelling. if they got rid of animation cancelling, then adcs would be basically useless without frozen mallet or some other way to peel for themselves

OnanThaMan2 votes

eh personal preference on my part, but i like when my support/adc and i are essentially conjoined at the hip when i play adc or i play supp.

I guess i should clarify about the cancelling on abilities rather than auto attacks, god knows its super annoying though when you aren't doing it intentionally, looking at Quinn .

Gnart Even Close2 votes

I feel like the animation cancelling is kind of important to Riven's identity now. If they worked around it that would be awesome. A lot of characters already have some way of cancelling animations, such as by using another spell in succession (i.e. Mega Gnar with Boulder Toss). It adds a way for higher level player to show off their skills, which is always nice. I can see why you might find them annoying though, but I don't think they are a root problem in Riven's kit

Ultîma3 votes

Are you joking? Riven is currently one of the most influential characters at Plat+ play with an insane pickrate of over 20% and a winrate of 53% at Plat and Diamond. Even if you look at the general metrics for the character (all levels of play) Riven still competes in the top-10 characters for top lane, with a 12% playrate and 51% winrate globally. So she's powerful at literally every level of play regardless of matchup and team composition. Saying that Quinn counters her completely disregards the fact that Quinn has a pickrate below 1% in every elo. The likelyhood of seeing Riven in a game (remember; 12% of the time) and her winning (overall, you'll see Riven win about 6% of total League games) is more likely than ever seeing Quinn in a single match.

Gnart Even Close2 votes

Thank you. She is kind of a problem because she is so snowbally

TurquoiseYoshi10 votes

{quoted}

I would change the scaling on her E shield to be 15% bonus health. Riven should not be rewarded defensively for building offensive items. That is just a stupid idea (like having shields scale with AP).

Shields that scale with AP? You mean like 7/8 of the shields in the game?

Gnart Even Close3 votes

lol yeah. i dont think they should, because defense and offense are "supposed" to be separate. there is more of a precedent for it though, but those champs could survive if their shield scaled with hp instead

Baseball3b6 votes

The issue then becomes that you screw up build paths and put people into the Miss Fortune situation where you're supposed to build all these different stats to maximize her kit, ending up with overall mediocre stats due to the conflicting items

Take Orianna for example.

She's THE utility mage. If you change her shield scaling to % bonus health, it's a straight nerf because she needs to build AP to be effective, but can't build health for her shield to be useful. Likewise, if you build health for her shield, her other spells won't be useful

ShatoSummoner1 votes

Its a problem like with old Sion. By having his shield scale heavily with AP while having no other scalings, you have an ability that encourages someone who was supposed to be built tanky AD using the infinite scaling on his e, into a champion who can build quite a bit of AP while still being difficult to burst down. Obviously, this is fixed now since his shield now primarily scales with Health, while having a small AP scaling so players can theoretically still build AP (mostly there for the nostalgia on riots part, I think). Orianna is intended to be a mage and built as such, and her shield is not necessarily intended to be used on yourself, but rather something to help peel for your teammates. Riven's e scaling is just encouraging the "Best defense is a good offense" idea, which while that does fit a character of noxian origins, is not good from a balance standpoint. If a riven character wants to be tankier, the first thing to come to mind should NOT be building more AD.

Talith PA2 votes

Riven's design from the ground up was Xypherous' attempt at a melee champion that builds nothing but damage and can still survive season 2 top lane Irelia. Everything about her reinforces the idea that the only way the champion can get anything done is by building more AD, that is why she has terrible base stats and has AD scaling on literally everything. If she had actual base stats and reduced scaling, she would have to build tank and get absolutely nothing done except hopping around a fight for a while in a really annoying fashion while ultimately contributing nothing as J4 and Irelia are going to do all of that only better.

I'm a Riven main and would love to see her get the Fiora treatment. Anything that would fix her feast / famine issues would be great.

Baseball3b2 votes

I disagree with your statement about Orianna. It might not be the primary use of it, but it sure as hell helps her in a big way when she needs it herself.

And I also disagree with your thoughts on the shield. Riven has the same job as an assassin yet is less safe since she lacks any blinks or safety mechanisms. She needs to be able to absorb a spell or AA or two in order to have a chance to do her job which is where the high scaling shield comes in.

If you shift her shield to scale off defense, you're pushing her into a mediocre bruiser role where other Champs do everything she does better.

It's a completely necessary part of her kit, and if you peel her off like you're supposed to in teamfights, it becomes irrelevant, like it should.

Sypher The Poro8 votes

I disagree with giving her energy, for a couple reasons:

  1. This will completely change Riven in a way never done before. Riot has never changed a champion's resource before.

  2. Weaving her Autos between spells efficiently is a lot harder than people make it look, and people new to Riven usually don't even try. Changing to energy will make low-level Riven plays unable to return enough energy for a full combo.

  3. Riven is a combo champion. She relies on weaving spells on certain combos along with animation canceling in order to deal a decent amount of damage. With energy costs, this slows down her spells a ton because she is forced to auto attack in order to have enough energy for combos.

  4. She would suck in Hide & Seek.


I'm not against Riven changes, even if she is my favorite champion to play, but I feel energy isn't the right way to go.

Bastard Chief3 votes

Exactly, and this cry baby also wants the energy cost to be of that of what a ult would cost mana wise for her skills.

Gnart Even Close4 votes

Did you not read the part about the energy return as part of her passive? Also, her base damages late game and her health regen would be buffed. If anything, this would be a buff to Riven. Everyone is just QQing at me...

Axests6 votes

How about if we're giving riven energy we give her energy regen when using one of her passive empowered auto attacks, this would allow her to keep her energy in fights as long as she weaves in autos while taking away her endless mobility while escaping.

Shonjl4 votes

Riven is fine, there is a reason you don't see her top that often. If she was so OP, she would be in every game a la Vayne.

Gnart Even Close2 votes

She is too much of a feast or famine champion as of now. She should be stronger when behind and not quite as snowbally. Her kit has problems, but they don't want to touch her kit.

Baseball3b3 votes

To be honest, I think she's in a fairly good spot.

Even if she doesn't get 5 kills in the lane phase and merely goes even with CS she can still assassinate the back line which is her job. Not to mention, she's notorious for being able to jump back out from behind. Not exactly the definition of famine.

She's snowballs like any other champion would. The thing is, it's more visible if she gets a kill early on because she's an early-game focused champion. She's perfectly outplayable in lane. Obnoxious, yes, but more than manageable.

JustMyBassCannon4 votes

{quoted}

The Problem With Riven (Read before downvote pls, this isn't just another circlejerk)

Okay, let's see what you have to say.

Many people flame about Riven, and they are somewhat justified.
Here are my major problems with Riven: She's manaless She's too mobile Her shield scales with AD She has AD scalings on her AD scalings (aka her ult) She has a ranged AOE execute She has naturally good defensive stats (i.e. she gets MR per level) She has too much CC She snowballs too hard, and is incredibly weak when behind

So far, about 90% of that is complaining about what her kit was designed to do. She's manaless because Riot designed her to be manaless. She's mobile because Riot designed her to be mobile (she lacks solid defense). Her shield scales with AD because her kit is scaled such that it is actually not worth building defense unless you have a significant lead, very much like Marksmen. There are several champions with AD steroids and AD-scaled skills, it's not the first or last time they have done or will do it. She has a ranged AoE execute because it's not like every ultimate in the game does something strange and powerful. No, she does not have naturally good defensive stats, she has average innate defense; if Riot wasn't lazy with MR, she would probably be in the very middle line for base defensive stats. Except for her utterly abysmal health regen. She has 1.25 seconds of CC, assuming she combos it perfectly. This is only in melee range, meaning anyone with CC or mobility of their own can interrupt her combo and keep her from landing it.

That last one is a legitimate complaint and an actual problem with her design.

What needs to be said is not "Her kit does this! Who else has a kit that does this?" but rather, "What causes her kit to be so binary-scaled?" Asking who else has a kit that does something either leads to having other, equally powerful examples presented, or in the rare case that it is unique, being told that a unique function is not necessarily overpowered, broken, toxic, etc. (and in plenty of cases, that's true)

Naturally, if I'm going to complain, I should offer some solutions.

I would like to see Riven have energy, as that would limit her spamming and require more thoughtful use of her abilities. This would also prevent her from abusing her mobility. Another option for the resource bar would be to show the charges of her passive.

Her passive is fine; in fact, it takes up some of her power budget while rewarding good mechanics, which is awesome. However, if she did use energy, it would be nice to give her higher costs but restore energy (10/12.5/15) on consuming charges of her passive. This would again reward higher level play while limiting Riven to an extent.

Her Q is her bread and butter move, and I would not change much, except the energy. I would suggest something like 30 for the first two casts, and 40 for the third cast at all levels. Fully using her Q would cost 100 energy, but only 70/62.5/55 if you used the passive.

Energy costs in general would not fit into her design. Either they would be too limiting, basically destroying anyone that doesn't know how to perfectly maximize her output, or it wouldn't limit her kit in any meaningful way.

Her W is fine, but is kind of obnoxious because she doesn't need the extra CC. I would suggest an energy cost of around 85/80/75/70/65 (this would be less with her passive).

Yes, she does need the extra CC. It's a less-than-1-second stun, reduced by Tenacity and it is more often the last skill she ranks up, so it doesn't do much damage.

Again, we're talking about a melee champion whose capacity to keep someone in range for about 2 seconds of melee combat revolves around a skill with a 13-second base cooldown. Even at maximum CDR, 2 seconds per 8 seconds is a very short amount of time.

I would change the scaling on her E shield to be 15% bonus health. Riven should not be rewarded defensively for building offensive items. That is just a stupid idea (like having shields scale with AP). I would suggest an energy cost of 50 at all ranks.

Well, it's nice to know that you universally despise shield scaling. Unfortunately, just because you don't show favoritism for one or the other doesn't mean that this demand is any more rational. You are not only suggesting gutting her only directly defensive tool--something that gives her a very small amount of extra HP for just barely longer than a second--but adding a cost to it as well.

If you changed the scalar of Riven's shield, almost regardless of the chosen stat, the base would need to go up to compensate for the fact that she can't really afford to build such items. And that base shield going up at all would make her more frustrating early-game and weaker late-game.

Her ult giving her bonus AD that scales with her AD is pretty stupid, as it literally gives her AD scalings on her AD scalings. Instead, she should get flat AD, something like 40/50/60 bonus AD. The general trend is that champs with energy have no costs on their ultimates, so I would say Riven shouldn't be an exception. I think the enhanced spells and increased autoattack range are awesome, so those should definitely stay. Wind Slash is a core part of Riven, and also part of her lore (wink wink Yasuo wink wink). I would personally make the cone narrower, but increase the projectile speed. That way, it would be about the same difficulty to hit a single target, but would prevent her from chunking everyone's health.

"It gives her AD scalings on her AD scalings."

And this is intentional. Like Cassiopeia, Zed, Master Yi and Rabadon's Deathcap, the point of this is to give a multiplicative, offensive scalar.

Riven doesn't even get more than 60 AD from her ultimate until after she has 3 fully completed, full AD items, which means either she's fed or it's mid- to late-game and you should be on par with her in terms of items.

Also worth noting is the fact that Riven doesn't scale so well with ANY OF THE OTHER AD OFFENSIVE STATS. It's generally not worth intentionally building for AS and Crit on her, due to how her kit is designed. You can do it, but it doesn't fit into her kit as well as building straight AD.

How would this affect Riven?

Pretty negatively. She'd either only ever see play in high ELO or never. Depends on whether or not Boxbox would be willing to deal with this guano.

First of all, Riven wouldn't snowball quite as hard, because her shield and ult (not talking about Wind Slash) wouldn't scale with AD anymore. She would also get flat AD on her ult, making her stronger when she is behind. Second of all, the health scaling on her shield would reward bruiser builds more, including items such as Black Cleaver and Randuin's Omen. This would also prevent Riven from snowballing so hard, but reward her more for a mix of offense and defense. Defense items are usually cheaper, allowing Riven to be stonger when behind. The energy costs would also prevent her from snowballing so much, but would not be oppressive. Her base damages could be buffed as well in compensation. The energy costs would also prevent Riven from being too mobile. The passive would specifically reward her from going in, by restoring energy on basic attacks. However, it would not reward her from running away.

Riven would probably build: Ravenous Hydra, Black Cleaver, Bloodthirster, Randuin's Omen / Dead Man's Plate, Ninja Tabi / Mercury Treads, and either Guardian's Angel or Last Whisper.

Riven wouldn't snowball at all. She'd be an obnoxious, laning-phase bully, assuming the player maximizes her energy output, and then she would just fall off pretty much the instant her opponent hit 6. She wouldn't even win the lanes she counters anymore.

She would have a weaker build, because she'd need to devote precious gold to defensive stats. This is not something that you make a glass cannon do. You don't force some convoluted reason for Vayne to need Randuin's Omen to be relevant. You don't slam the shit out of Kayle's heal and slap a convoluted ratio to force her into buying Warmog's. You don't force restrictive costs into Yi's kit just so he can't chase someone which is his job.

Riven would probably be played around with a few times, then abandoned because her playstyle was ruined for the sake of a misguided nerf rework. Then relaunched with the intent of preserving her identity through a completely different playstyle that a larger portion of the community would flame Riot and complainers for creating.

Now if you've read all of this, flame away. Or offer constructive criticism :)

Edit: As someone pointed out, with all of these changes, it would be basically mandatory to buff Riven's health regen to normal levels.

She needs work. This is not going in the right direction. It's not targeting her problems, but the things that the generally more blind portion of the community calls problems.

Gnart Even Close2 votes

It is only one suggestion... If you don't like it, you can offer some different suggestions... And by increased base damage, I mean more base damage per point you put in the skill, not early.

JustMyBassCannon3 votes

{quoted}

It is only one suggestion... If you don't like it, you can offer some different suggestions...

You asked for critique and you got it.

I'm here to say that this is something that has been said and shot down multiple times, all for the same reasons. Rephrasing the same thing but still carrying the same meaning and intentions doesn't make it any less full of holes.

Your reasoning is centered around a faulty premise. You just briefly touched upon something that is a relevant problem. My suggestion is that you think about how that affects her as a champion.

To be explicit about it, what makes her kit binary by design? What makes her feast or famine? I'm not here to offer my own suggestions, I'm here to challenge yours. You can defend it, or you can learn from it. Or you can ignore me, like most people do, gain nothing and waste my time on top of it.

And by increased base damage, I mean more base damage per point you put in the skill, not early.

It doesn't matter how you meant to imply it, because the increase would not compensate for a grand, overall nerf. All it would do is make her early-game stronger and her late-game weaker, further polarizing her feast-or-famine nature.

The Sword Saint2 votes

That's the definition of early. Late game would be increasing the ratios.

Gnart Even Close1 votes

No, it would be more mid-game. It wouldn't even affect her until level 4, and you wouldn't really see the effects until around level 7. Her very early game, when she is trying to cheese her first kill, would remain exactly the same. Early game would be increasing base stats and early base damages.

The Sword Saint3 votes

If you want people to take you seriously and not just dismiss what you're saying, you have to avoid saying things like 'cheese your first kill' or 'roams and gets fed'.

The way you say it makes it sound like other champions aren't capable of performing a timing attack (which is when you plan to go all in as soon as you hit a certain level and try to hit that level before your opponent) or using teleport or something to roam and make a play. It reveals a certain bias that you have that you might not even be aware of, and the net effect is to make people roll their eyes and potentially lose interest in the thread.

Gnart Even Close1 votes

Cheese is a legitimate strategy. And I was saying it wouldn't affect her cheese; it would still do the same damage early but make her scale better with levels.

Auryiel4 votes

You're basically saying Riven should be another tanky, mobile damage dealer.

Fuck that, it's the most cancerous shit in this game.

Riven is FINE as a snowbally champion : taking her is a risk. I'm not usually a fan of that, but we need SOME champions like that. If you pick Orianna, you expect to have a certain impact on the game regardless of how well you did. Your variance is not as affected by how well you did in lane because you have a safety net of utility, but all your shit can also be dodged at any point in the game. When you pick Riven, you know you gotta do well or else you fall flat. That's part of playing Riven.

Riven should also remain squishy and vulnerable to burst and CC. Enabling her (with higher base damages, flat AD on her ult and bonus health scaling on her shield) to build tanky and deal damage will make her way, WAY more infuriating to deal with.

Riven's kit is fine as it is, at best it needs number tunings. One of the best ways Riot ever nerfed Riven was to reduce the duration of her shield, thus making it really important to time it well and also possible to wait out before blowing up Riven. THAT'S the kind of changes Riven need. Not completely dumpstering who she is.

p.s. I don't play Riven, in fact I play champions who get hard countered by Riven.

Gnart Even Close3 votes

I want Riven to require more skill, to snowball less hard (but still snowball stronger than most champions), and to be stronger when behind. Building a Black Cleaver and a Randuin's isn't exactly tanky, it just means she won't be instantly blown up without her shield. She would still need loads of AD to effectively deal damage, and her core identity would be about the same. It's hard to predict exactly how things will pan out anyway without actual testing.

Auryiel3 votes

There's really nothing in your suggestions that make Riven take more skill to play.

All adding energy does is limit her.

lHopeBotWins3 votes

I would disagree with the shield part. It doesn't last very long and it is her compensation for having negative health regen during laning. Any type of harass no matter how small will stick, and you need to apply that harass to have a chance to fight her. She needs to wisely use that shield to mitigate that harass.

A Riven can 1v1 any champion and win if they both start at 100% and neither backs out until death (except tryndamere I suppose). But that's just the way she is. There's nothing wrong with that, you just need to work around it.

Gnart Even Close1 votes

If Riven was using energy, I guess giving her decent health regen in compensation wouldn't be a bad idea at all. I just don't think someone should get defense from building offense. Also, Riven would still have the shield anyway, and building an early Black Cleaver would help.

Baseball3b3 votes

But the thing is, that shield is basically what holds her together, else she'd get immediately blown up in teamfights. Obviously if you gave her energy and buffed her health regen, you'd have to adjust the scaling, but the AD scaling shield is necessary to her.

Riven excels at short skirmishes, not long duels -- hence why the shield only last 1.5 seconds

Gnart Even Close1 votes

If she was rewarded with shields that scale with HP, she would benefit more from items like Black Cleaver and Randuin's Omen. Riven should be building "some" defense theoretically. Also, if she had higher base damages and could afford to build a little more tanky, she wouldn't be blown up quite as easily.

Baseball3b2 votes

That's where I disagree and we end up having a Darius-like problem.

Her early game damage would still be the same even with energy. Buffing her bases makes her even more of a lane bully (which is where most of the qq comes from) while allowing her to build more tanky. You'd end up with an incredibly oppressive, fairly tanky lane bully, not unlike darius. (and we all know how that's working out.)

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

But the thing is, that shield is basically what holds her together, else she'd get immediately blown up in teamfights. Obviously if you gave her energy and buffed her health regen, you'd have to adjust the scaling, but the AD scaling shield is necessary to her.

Riven excels at short skirmishes, not long duels -- hence why the shield only last 1.5 seconds

Sona's shield lasts 1.5 seconds too, and it's terrible.

Riven is too much of a lane bully. She and Renekton and Gnar basically force tanks into the jungle just because no one feels safe picking them top. When lane bullies were crowding out bot lane in season 3 Riot broke BT in half. Removing Brutalizer from BC build path was a good start but Riot needs to tone lane bullies down so we can see some top lane diversity. Especially since the champs being pushed out are the ones with the team utility.

Baseball3b3 votes

Number one: they have two completely different play styles and niches Number two: Sona needs some work so it isn't really a good comparison.

The thing is, when lane bullies are nerfed, we see a rise in hyper carries. Look at Vayne right now. Playing a tank is actually one of the easiest ways to beat Riven. Yes, she has the advantage early on, but as long as you survive to first back, she'll only tickle, at which point as long as you go even or even a little behind in CS, you'll contribute a lot more to a team fight than her.

I also feel that the juggernauts are the bigger reason why there's a current lack of diversity up top. It's terrifying taking a less common top against the popular juggernauts/Fiora right now.

BIG BAD AXE MAN3 votes

there is really no problem with riven, except the fact that she probably need buffs to stay relevant in top lane.

Iceember3 votes

Okay. I was gonna post to a bunch of comments etc. But then it dawned on me.

Which riven players are we talking about? The super highly skilled mechanics geniuses who nail every combo and make it hurt? Or the unskilled noobs that spam q, w, e, and r and hope to achieve something?

Because that is what makes riven deadly. Her players. Nothing more nothing less.

DEmperor953 votes

Ok, so here is what you are trying to do: Take current Riven, give her energy and slap energy costs on her, remove the AD scaling of her shield, and let her ult give her flat AD instead of percent AD.

Let me tell you something, she would definitely need some compensation in other areas to to balance her around her new kit. First of all, all of her base stats will need to be buffed to match other bruisers, because her only form of defense got heavily nerfed (and yes she actually does have noticeably less defensive base stats than other bruisers while being full melee). Also, all of her abilities' base numbers will need to buffed, to compensate for the less spammability due to being gated by energy. I actually don't see a problem with her ult giving flat AD though.

PS: Riven's abilities are all designed for her to be resourceless. If she gets a resource, her abilites need to be more impactful, or significantly reworked. Giving her a resource completely contrasts her playstyle, and will make significantly weaker.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

Stop trying to resource gate champions who are explicitly designed to not be resource gated. Giving Riven or Yasuo energy doesn't balance them, it makes their kit unusable. Why would I even pick Riven with your changes?

Ellphi2 votes

I don't think it'd make any sense for Riven

Her base stats are too low to be 'tanky', and if she were just another moderate damage bruiser there'd be no reason to play her over Jax or something who has far better scaling as a tanky DPS

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