I'm actually seeing this crop up. I would link the comments getting lots of upvotes but this thread will get deleted for naming/shaming
Is this a joke or meme that I'm not in on or something?
This has to be a joke right? People cant be serious.
dunder kill41 votesThe meme should be "A viable AD mid? AP GUTTED THX RITO"
Anyone who thinks AP as a whole is bad is insane
Hyrum Graff2 votesDisagree. #apcin2k17
deadlychuck28 votesI think you're mixing up the message.
It's not that you can't win games if you're playing a mage in the mid lane. It's more that the odds of winning the lane probably aren't in your favor.
AD (and their champion designs) just out preforms AP in the early game in basically every way, and there is very little that you can do about it. Basically, AD champions mostly only offer more killing power, which normally is over abundant on most teams anyway, where as mages offer utility which is generally less abundant. Oh and they do purple numbers instead of red (but that's really a moot point with all the armor pen and true damage now).
In the mid game, you're probably going to out preform them via your utility, but late game (no matter what people like to claim with building health), you're utility is probably overwhelmed by their raw power. The problem does partly stem from AP itemization and how the stat itself is designed. AP champions can't really afford to build an item (except for boots), which doesn't have AP on it if they want to have sufficient damage to preform as needed.
Where as AD tends to have enough multiplicative and/or natural scaling (via auto attacks), that you pretty much always sacrifice an item slot for a purely defensive purchase.
Then on top of that, AP also generally doesn't get the premium defensive unique passives. Like 
The best they've got is 
which is as much a risk as it's a life saver. (oh look an artifact from when riot was good at designing risk/reward mechanics)
Jacknife4 votesEhhh, I agree and disagree. From what I'm looking at, the majority of mages on that list the OP gives out seem to have a common trend, which is consistent damage tied to CC. These are the types that don't need full AP to be effective or even do significant damage, due to how their kits are set up. Not saying full AP isn't viable on them, but they have more 
-way to itemize defensively than others. Apart from that we have the occasional burst type such as 
, 
, and 
, even then Karthus can kinda float between dps and burst. They're all strong atm because they can survive being one-shot due to built in mechanics/CC or allowed itemization.
TurquoiseYoshi16 voteswat
AD in lane is theoretically good until you realize that all AD mids except Corki and the rare Lucian are melee. As much as AD might beat AP, ranged always beats melee. If Zed is able to auto minions in lane for free, a mistake has happened. The reason why Zed almost always flops in pros is because he's never able to get off the ground because the other player has a brain and denies early farm from Zed until he hits 6, where they stay enough back to not let Zed all-in them.
AD has better all-in/early fighting power because those ADs that aren't Corki and Lucian are all assassins or duelists. They are good when fights are split up.
Late-game, utility is still very useful. Honestly, it's more useful than damage, since ADCs will often have enough damage to carry the game on their own as long as they have the utility of another member to keep them from death. Assuming the opposing AD mid isn't Corki or a good Yasuo, they're probably doing very little damage. And it's not like every AP is Karma or Lulu, plenty of APs do lots of damage into the late game (Orianna, Cassio, Kassadin, Ryze, Azir, probably others). One person might get bursted down by an assassin, if their support doesn't save them and they don't use Flash and don't use their defensive item actives and no CC hits the assassin, but a late-game teamfight, with all else equal, is won by the team with the mage over the team with the AD mid (unless it's Corki).
CytheGuy4 votesMost AD mid-laners have some kind of gap close, and in close-quarters ranged champions (usually) lose unless they have some kind of self-peel.
Voluug138 votes''Ranged always beats melee''
Yeah if the melee has no mobility and no ranged attacks, of which most ad midlaners have in spades, one or both.
Sp33d Zer011 votesGotta remember that having an AD mid VERY heavily skews the defensive options your opponents can buy, as well as what your top and jungle can really pick. Also all AD mids are melee.
BØLT2 votesOnce upon a time I saw a Varus mid
Mistress Madoka5 votesOr a Jhin mid. Not all AD Mids are Melee
Just most of them
Evil Yasuo22 votesIt must be a joke because mages are the only things chosen mid lane.
Tails901610 votesI see a lot more Zed in low elo with the recent lethality buffs
Spicy Rice2 votes"Low elo" being the operative words
SoccerTrolls3 votesUhh what rank are you
Morgy Morgy13 votesap itemization is just shit because items dont give much ap anymore and they cost a shit ton of money
Eedat21 votesWhat if I told you you have enough raw AP to delete people anyway? You dont need 1k AP to be very effective lol
Morgy Morgy20 votespoint is, compared to ad itemization, ap itemization is terrible not to mention the amount of mr items there are assassins and adcs have three items they can get for mr maw, scimitar, and guardian angel (still gives mr right?) mages only have zhonyas, which is a great item, but it's gotten nerfed magic penetration is like a suggestion at this point, liandrys is only good on certain champs and sorc shoes are the only other flat magic pen items meanwhile there's like a billion armor pen and lethality items which are cheaper and give really nice passives or actives most of the time
Eedat14 votesYou are aware that champions have roughly double the amount of base Armor as opposed to base MR right? Hence why they need more Lethality to achieve the same result? Plus the fact that Void still is total MR as opposed to LW which is only bonus armor?
No? Didnt think so. Who needs facts amirite?
BØLT2 votesAnd you are aware of how things were before they increased base and free armor per level and the reasons they did this to begin with?
Kariu Rena5 votesmages have 1k range, waveclear, safe laning, good scaling throughout the game, team wide utility maybe git gud i dunno
Sp33d Zer03 votesI'm confused, is the point that we don't have 1.6k ap karthas builds anymore because everyone has better scaling, that melee mids have access to good defensive options in a primarily ranged lane, or that mages are dying due to getting too close in a class type that should be backed away like ADCs
Also, you know that black cleaver is less armor pen when fully stacked than void staff is base line, and that last whisper only effects BONUS armor, unlike void staff which effects all magic resist.
Oh, and most champs have higher scaling base armor than base mr
Gone by Night7 votesThe fact that you think GA gives MR proves that you know jack shit about the game.
An Undead brat10 votesThis statistic is misleading. Look at the playrates, that is in no way enough data to consider winrate in the balance talk.
Sp33d Zer04 voteshttps://na.op.gg/champion/statistics
5 spots to find the first AD champion. 7 to find corki, who is honestly an ap marksman. Can't even really call him an AD mid in my opinion. 12 to find yasuo.
Dunno, seems like since it takes 15 spots to find 4 "AD mids" that 73% of the most popular mids are mages.
GelsominoKiller7 votesWhile I do agree that midlane mages are in a fine spot at the moment, for the sake of the argument, Corki should be considered an "AD mid" as he uses AD itemization; he just artificially deals magic damage because of his passive.
Eedat2 votesCorki should be considered an "AD mid" as he uses AD itemization
He literally builds 
and does 80% magic damage
His autos do 80% magic damage. His Q, W package, and R do magic damage. His E does hybrid damage
Corki is NOT an AD mid. Even calling him a hybrid is generous
PrinceOfStorms8 votesFaker literally picked Lucian mid in one of his recent matches. Under no circumstances should ADCs be getting picked in solo lanes, and any ADCs that do should get such significant damage nerfs that the champion itself becomes a meme.
Shablagoo2 votesThey did Lucian and corki both got nerfed Ez can play mid too. Adc's are jsut strong anyway
koshkyra7 votesYoure probably right but using champion.gg will ruin your credibility as it is widely accepted as an innacurate site.
deadlychuck6 votesI feel like credibility changes like every couple of months to a new website.
Maybe riot should just start releasing the official numbers -_-
TurquoiseYoshi4 voteschampion.gg is usually called the most useful, from what I've seen.
Durzaka7 votesRiot has already said that OP.gg is the most accurate site for this type of data. Not champion.gg
TurquoiseYoshi2 votes1: Link?
2: Is it more accurate, or just more options? champion.gg is limited to Plat+ over the full patch, but there's a reason for that, because that's what Riot has said they balance on.
Durzaka4 votesI never saved the link, sadly. And I cant see to find it anymore.
But OP.GG is limited to Plat+ as well.
Glory ln Death2 votesNo, champion.gg is terrible. Its stats are always significantly different than every other site, and it gives very clearly wrong data (like Sion's worst match-ups for top lane being exactly the same as his best match-ups), as well as very confusing and controversial statistics for builds, runes, masteries, etc.
Mogarl7 votesThere are also only 9 champions on that list with over 1% play rate, 6 with over 2%.
Karfuss6 votesMisleading stats.
Look at the play rates, far too small a population for any meaningful data.
Handin Out Naps2 votes
Hensetsu5 votesI don't think Ap Mages are bad when they one shot people without broken itemization like Duskblade.
I think it's a testament to their strength that some of them can still keep up even with poor itemization and a Duskblade meta.
I'm a mid lane main and tbh I that think some mages are TOO strong. But that's my opinion. I don't have reliable statistics to use so from my experience I think getting one from across the screen doesn't make me think that Ap Mages are in a particularly bad spot.
That said, I do think that some have issues, not all are in a good spot. But there are plenty of high burst Mages who can still carry games.
Skorch4 votesEEEEEEEEEW Champion.gg Trust me its not very reliable. Not saying youre wrong. Just... pick a better site.
Sp33d Zer03 votesYea, look at how low the pick rate is! Ahri is the most popular and she is under an 8% pickrate!
Riot fix your game so we can have AP mid bot top and jungle! And give us AP itemization that isn't:
utility
survivability
scaling
burst
and core items
And who cares about niche items that make different arch types of mages mid lane! 
NineTailedMystic3 voteslisting support items as mid lane options
lol. No Mid laner in their right mind would buy Censer or Grail, and GLP is so niche I've only ever seen Sol buy it.
Gunblade is good on LB, Akali, and Kat, not any Mages.
Archangels isn't viable on most Mages, and RoA isn't a good pick up most of the time either. Deathcap is a burden to buy because of its total and combine cost.
Protobelt is only slightly less bad than GLP on most champions, Lich Bane is ok, and Luden's has been shit for a while.
Morello and Void Staff/Sorcs are the only three actually good items AP have.
Cosmic Warper3 votesUsing champion.gg for statistics lul. Use lolalytics or op.gg
Shablagoo2 votesHow are mages bad when Malz and Anivia have had some of the highest winrate since about the beginning of the season? Then you have Ahri which is pretty much one of the best soloq champions to play in the game. Ppl complain about wanting more ap itemization yet the few ap items they have are literally all amazing, want to never run out of mana, get 20% cdr, and have grevious wounds this is your item. Want to shred tanks while also giving you pen for squshies as well we got you got you fam. Want one of the most increadiable and usefull items in the game that can save your life in any situation while also completely shutting down this champions ult 
, while also giving you ap, cdr, and 70 ap Got you fam. Want 255 ap along with 1100 health build all of these three . Want to increases your ap too 500 with one after at least building these three items before runes I got you . Want a spell shield along with cdr and ap too
Please stop telling me Ap itemization is shit, if your bored of building the same stuff build ad then man jeez. You dont need anymore items you have everything you will ever need. I dont think anyone could reach over 500 ad unless your rengar and build full dmg. Or this 
sike you dont even reach it without runes or masteries unlike ap and it cost 14,000 gold. For 500 ap it cost 12,800 you also have an extra item becase it only takes four items instead of 5. Ap itemization is honestly great I dont know what ppl complain about
Volphi2 votes[deleted]
Shablagoo1 votesTheir are ad midlaners too, and when I say the best I'm also taking about their winrate for a game Anivia and Malz have been at the to of the charts of having the highest winrates in the game I am not just taking about the laning phase, I dont even need to talk about ahri because even after her nerf she still has 51+ winrate. You know what that means it meas over 50 of the time they win their games , but obviously mages are bad right?
So? adc's build IE its the core of almost 90% of adc's, a duskblade is the core of assassins, almost all jungler's have to build a jg item? What point does all mages have to build the same thing have when every single class also has a core and a similar build. All assasins build duskblade, ghostblade, and BC. So many classes in this game build the same as each other, mages are not special.
Not if it does 2% on your current health doubling if slowed, that is significant especially for teamfights, brand is also a great tank shredder as well oh look he is a mage thats crazy. Even if they dont have dps it does a significant amount espiecally considering almost all mages have cc it works in their favor to chunk tanks down with their adc. They arent unable to deal with tanks unlike assassins.
I cant believe someone is saying zhonya's is garbage if you generally mean that then you really dont play the game, you will need it considering its the only offensive armor option against adc's. Zhonya's is an amazing item, and I use the example of zed and talon too because its one of the few items in the game that completely counters a champion. It also doesnt only just counter them because you can use it to counter almost all forms of burst dodge ults and escape too, how can you even lie to me and say that zhonya's is garbage? I think the seeker being weaker then hex is reasonable consider the strength of the full item.
Thats just three items, its not like you can't get more ap with that build, pretty sure thats core for brand dont think he does little dmg with get those three, also health is a very valuable stat, you make it sound like its nothing.
You will have magic pen from runes you could also get void for your last item. Wave clear what about the passive on ludens, also what mage doesnt have a aoe skill for wave clear? Wave clear from ludens( do you need more your a mage) movespeed too, mana per kill or assist 20% btw, grievous wounds, 20% cdr, armor, invulnerability, more cdr, massive ap spike, pen, more pen. I don't see the problem with itemization you can switch out items for what ever you need for the current situation.
Every champion in the game has a 3+ armor scaling( except for thresh), mr is .5 to 1.25 and most base mr at lvl 18 is 53.5. Because ad comes from almost everything(JG camps but gromp, minons, towers) everyone has higher base armor, its also easier to build armor against champions because armor naturally easier to come by and get over 100 on too, we even have an item that reduces basic attack dmg. If you look at the average adc build if a mage build full pen they will do true dmg with their full combo. Their is a reason why syndra ulting adc with one r is a so common. Mages have no problem bursting ppl down, also if they miss something badly, against most champs they just cc and get out, becase they have the distance advantage( except if you miss cc but you deserve to die at that point). Also because ad is so common it almost always necessary to have one ap champion, being the only ap champion gives mages such an advantage because ppl wont even bother building mr for one champion, making pen builds really effective.
No I am not because they have everything they need for each situation if you can tell me one situation were they dont have the itemization to counter act it then plz tell me and I might reconsider.
Sire Hippington2 votesit's as much of a meme as 'ADC 2017'
Though claiming that thier items kinda suck, especially when directly compareing stuff like luden's with shit like Duskblade or SS is not without merit, it's just that the few good items like morellos aswell as the strong kits of mage are enough to compensate for that. However, seeing that many complains about APs and their items despite them performing well means that there is certainly an issue somewhere, especially with item statisfaction.
RankOneUganda2 votesno this is just the boards
