I really like not being able to trade with tanks at all

Big Lincoln·Dec 13, 2016·4 votes·901 views

It's fun that at any point in the game Garen can't trade with any tanks even though the point of being a juggernaut is to be able to fight tanks

I really do enjoy when some braindead retard Nautilus rightclicks me and Ws and gets a shield that I can't break with my entire rotation, and then wins every trade just because he has that unbreakable shield. Because you know what, Juggernauts weren't weak enough; sure, the only viable one might be Darius, but we need tanks to be even more unkillable to a class that's supposed to be able to fight them. Because CC monsters SHOULD have disgusting base damage on par with fighters and carries.

Who the fuck came up with this keystone and why hasn't it been removed with a formal apology from Riot for introducing it

32 Comments

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20162 votes

you see most people would be complaining about people like xin putting it on and becoming immortal but you just want your cancer to be viable like it was back in preseason 6. well no sorry buddy but nuking tanks is a privelage earned by proper play and engaging correctly, not a right earned by pressing a button and spinning someone's face to death.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

well considering that xin zhao is garbage and is only barely viable even with cotc, I'm not going to complain about him. if you're gonna complain about fighters with this dumbshit mastery, you could have at least said Riven

love how you people always talk about league being a rock paper scissors game but tanks being able to """"outplay"""" their opponents by stat-checking them with a giant shield totally acceptable.

juggernauts are one of the healthiest classes if not the healthiest. they are the only group with universal counterplay and are the only class that hasn't broken an item.

nuking tanks is a privelage earned by proper play and engaging correctly, not a right earned by pressing a button and spinning someone's face to death.

there is not a single tank that takes a modicum of skill to play. you do not get to bring up difficulty when we talk about tanks.

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

have you ever been a squishy and tried to to literally anything within a garen's vision radius without a full team to peel him and his ridiculous speed and cleanse/spin/ult off of you? yeah not fun. juggernauts were the most broken class on release and aren't much better these days in their weakened state. also Gragas Thresh Ivern Taric your argument is invalid. tanks take the same skills as it takes to play any champion in league. the lack of 50 different skillshots does not constitute a lack of skill.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

gragas isn't hard to play, he's just shit. ivern takes like 4 games to get good with, not what I would call high skill. thresh's skill floor is overrated but he has a high ceiling, Taric is actual retard freelo and I'm probably going to play him over Bard this season just because he's that broken right now

Juggernauts were a problem because their numbers were too high. Not even true for Garen, actually; he was only good because his Villain passive was bugged and scaled with his own health instead of the enemy's. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them inherently. Tanks, however, are problematic to their very core.

have you ever been a squishy and tried to to literally anything within a garen's vision radius without a full team to peel him and his ridiculous speed

So a squishy champion getting caught out by Garen and for some reason, not being able to use any of their slows until after he Qs, even though that's the only way he'll get on you in the first place, is a problem? The majority of ranged champions have at least a slow these days, if not hard CC. Especially if you're a mage; Garen is a joke to any AP that isn't already terrible right now.

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

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Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

oh okay, you don't even know how garen's kit works. Q does not cleanse anything but slows and it does not give him slow resist. "damage nuke" is laughable; it's a little extra damage on an attack modifier. it's also the worst, shortest silence still in the game on the slowest attack modifier in the game.

25% armor shred is less than Cleaver; it stacks to less than 50% shred and armor shred doesn't do anything for true damage.

(he's going to catch up 3 seconds later now joy to the rift)

oh no, how dare those melees be allowed to catch up?

tanky enough to

must be why garen loses to tanks, right? even with all that shit you describe to try and make him seem broken, he gets his shit stomped by tanks. because tanks are more problematic than Garen has ever been since sunfires could stack, and they're only worse with the introduction of cotc

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

well my reply has glitched out somehow but I love you ignoring the rest of that. garen's run is the obnoxious reverse of a permanent nasus wither in that no matter how far you get away, he'll just keep chugging down the lane through turrets and teams to get to you because screw getting cc'd or taking any reasonable damage.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

screw getting cc'd

are you not even reading? he only cleanses one slow. Hard CC works on him as well as it does anybody else. You can just hit him with a second slow and his movement is invalidated; if you're a DoT mage with Rylai's it still doesn't do anything. Stop exaggerating the usefulness of his Q.

taking any reasonable damage.

he does that just fine, actually. his W is the only thing that makes him a little difficult to kill because he can't use broken cotc for any shields and he has no sustain that doesn't require him to leave the teamfight. and he maxes W last so until mid-late it's 2 seconds of damage reduction on an enormous cooldown

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

I was gonna say it's not just a cleanse it resists future slows but apparently that's been thrown out of the kit... anyway. so you do admit he's difficult to kill in short bursts as an in and out combatant and the other tanks utilising a shield to do the same is broken? and no I'm not talking about 1v5 engages, nobody tanks that for very long without being mundo or shen.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

there isn't a single tank or bruiser that is easy to burst. the problem comes from sustained combat where Garen loses utterly despite belonging to a class that normally excels in melee DPS. COTC enables these champions to block the entirety of his spin damage at most stages of the game( 4 second shield - 3 second spin), so regardless of what he does he is forced to back up; thus, the trade is lost.

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

as opposed to pre cotc where they would lose about half their hp and garen would lose about the same and then proceed to back off and regen it all in a matter of minutes? I know it's going to have to have some tweaks in order to lessen its lane impact with how crazy some people can get with it but honestly I like they have a defensive tool against this lane monster.

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

not a single tank that takes a modicum of skill

don't go shifting the goalposts on me, that's highly dishonest. these tanks take skill to play even if they aren't lee win and you know it.

cleanse. slow resist. speed boost. silence. damage nuke. it's the shutdown move to end all shutdown moves unless you are a full item and a half ahead of him you aren't killing him and you aren't getting away after he gets phage. the most you can hope to do is get lucky and play a mobile champion (he's going to catch up 3 seconds later now joy to the rift) or just be tany enough to OH WAIT HE SHREDS ALL YOUR ARMOR OFF AND DOES TRUE DAMAGE 1/5 OF THE TIME TO BOOT I FORGOT ABOUT THAT.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

I didn't shift the goal posts. I conceded on the only champion there that's actually difficult to play, Thresh.

The other 3 are as idiot friendly as it gets

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

I love all you people saying taric and gragas are easy with all the minigames they have to play in their kits. I suppose cassieopeoeieia (whatever) is easy too because her main dps is targeted and you only have to hit a skillshot every so often to keep the dots going? I'm going to guess you've never tried properly aiming and setting off gragas barrels to do anything but maybe a bit of damage. they're a small radius and don't have the precast mechanic that's becoming so common these days, it's essentially a discount lux slow.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

i had like a 70% winrate with taric over about 40 games with him; I only started playing him around the end of season since I was avoiding League over summer. he's easy to play.

again, Gragas when he was any good at all was as faceroll as you could get. he's "hard" because he's been gutted and left in the dirt of bottom-tier junglers.

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

so if they're SO easy to you what do you consider difficult?

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

draven, azir, vayne (pre-crit builds), and I will go ahead and say that Bard and Shaco are difficult to play well, too.

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

ok so champions that require a lot of micromanaging. how does taric's passive and gragas damage combo not require skill to pull off?

MXXXXXLDec 13, 20161 votes

Taric is really easy to play, are we talking pure tanks? No fighters?

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

ok sure managing his cooldowns, skillshots and passive, as well as timing his ult right is easy as pie. do you even gems my boy??

MXXXXXLDec 13, 20161 votes

Managing all 3 of those things is easy, timing his ult is the only thing that could be difficult even if not being that hard to do.

i do in fakt gems m8. Taric item 1027 item 1028

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

easy compared to what, exactly. diana? you have one skillshot m8 I like the champion but I'm not gonna say she's that difficult to main under most circumstances. taric has two technically but one of them he can't rely on aiming accurately himself.

MXXXXXLDec 13, 20161 votes

Ezreal 's Q, not easier than, but just as simple and easy to land as anything else.

AmetDeCryptDec 13, 20161 votes

I talk kits, not tragedies or singular parts of their kit. think of it this way lulu is a complex champion ya? many things to do in her kit yet almost all of them are targeted except for her q. you don't win a teamfight on a single skillshot and you don't talk champion difficulty while leaving out most of the kit. unless you're talking after death sion, he only has one skill anyway so sure, I'll give you that one.

TyrekGoldenspearDec 13, 20161 votes

Except when Naut's the Villain Garen cuts through him like hot butter.

The Villain passive really makes his power fluctuate.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

naut was the villain twice that game

didn't matter at all, lol.

ChaosedgeDec 13, 20161 votes

item 3071 item 3153 item 3036 item 3033

'Nuff said.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20164 votes

i can take close to 50% of someone's armor off with Garen's E and cleaver and it still won't mean a thing

bork is useless for garen, his damage comes from E

LDR is useless because Garen builds health too, MR doesn't counter shields

"nuff said"

USG FailsawceDec 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zwTxQ7WI,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-12-13T05:55:49.623+0000)

LDR is useless because Garen builds health too, MR doesn't counter shields

ur right cus the hp passive is the only passive that exists on all last whisper items.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

AnonagonDec 13, 20161 votes

I came in here expecting to sympathize with someone else who finds tanks too hard to kill in the midgame, but instead found someone salty that Garen is weak and that CotC is strong.

Big LincolnDec 13, 20161 votes

COTC and tanks are terribly designed regardless of Garen's state

I'm only using my recent matches of being cheesed by a broken mastery as context for the post of how Riot has failed us this season

USG FailsawceDec 13, 20161 votes

not to mention that the fact alone that you building another non-hp damage item, makes the hp passive on LDR better, by itself...

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

but hey keep complaining about how tough tanks are and how hard you have it.