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viktor changes are awful

Big Lincoln··185 votes·6,558 views

Siphon Power (Q): Cooldown lowered to 8/7/6/5/4 from 10/8.5/7/5.5/4 Missile damage increased to 60/85/110/135/160 from 40/60/80/100/120 AP ratio increased to .4 from .2 Attack damage changed to 20/35/50/65/80 from 20-210 (based on level) Shield changed to [8% max mana + (.15 AP)] from [30/50/70/90/110 + (.20 AP)] Death Ray (E): Laser Damage AP ratio reduced to .5 from .7 [Augment] Explosion damage changed to 40/70/100/130/160 (+ .6 AP) from 100% of Laser Damage [Augment] REMOVED No longer reduces explosion damage by 60% against targets damaged by Death Ray. [Augment] Explosion delay increased to 1.25 seconds from .6 seconds Chaos Storm (R): Initial damage lowered to 100/175/250 (+.5 AP) from 150/250/350 (+.55 AP) Tick interval increased to 2 seconds from .5 seconds Tick damage changed to 150/250/350 (.6 AP) from 15/30/45 (.10 AP) Duration reduced to 6 seconds from 7

He just became the clunkiest piece of shit ever. All the self-synergy he had with his own kit -- gone. Now he's going to be "stun or die" because his E's burst is more delayed and his R only does something every 2 seconds (why??)

Not to mention you nerfed his E a few patches ago for waveclearing too good. If this update goes through with that 1.25 second delay, waveclearing's all it's going to be good for.

stop reworking champions that don't need it.

edit: I played him on the PBE. He feels horribly untuitive in almost every way now; E takes too long to hit twice and R doesn't even exist in between its shock intervals. Riot, buffing his numbers to the point he'll obliterate you entirely on if you get locked down inside his stun isn't healthy. It turned possibly your healthiest mage into a toxic kit; revert these and leave him alone.

92 Comments

RG Velean45 votes

So they ruined what made Viktor.

Big Lincoln28 votes

pretty much.

i would argue we've got it worse than syndra now.

RG Velean17 votes

I really enjoyed Vik too. And I was really good with him. That's sad... I already didn't like playing him anymore after the nerf to his E

Enchanté3 votes

I feel the same as you. I would really appreciate it if Riot bring the old Vik back (before the E nerf) but I'd rather endure his E nerf if this mage update is really going through.

Thanks Riot for destroying champions. (*joins other ruined champions in the corner)

4yoyoman2 votes

Im an exViktor and Syndra main... these changes are just an ambomination when you look at other mages like Lux or something like Zed thats favored by Riot...

Kitten of Evil3 votes

It's a race to the bottom!

FROScountered1 votes

[{quoted}](name=IT HURTS SO GOOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dOPxrTxe,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-20T20:44:17.806+0000)

pretty much.

i would argue we've got it worse than syndra now.

Did you say syndra is a bad champion ??????????????????????????????????????? Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww you must be on meth dude . [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Big Lincoln3 votes

yes

she's shit now, she'll be even shittier soon

VentusDragoon3 votes

Her changes won't make her bad, they'll make her easier.

And while I don't like them making Syndra easier, it'll make it so players less skilled with her will be able to make use of her burst.

Big Lincoln4 votes

damage nerfs to a combo mage's main spell is not compensated for with utility.

VentusDragoon1 votes

It's not "utility" they're compensating for, they're enabling less skilled players to burst you to oblivion easier at the cost of a bit less damage on her normal Q.

ImmortalBloodCY10 votes

I think RIOT is more interested in AD champs more than AP.

Checking their history it seems they are doing alot of wrong changes on AP champs.

Nefas24 votes

Yea it looks like an absolute gutting. They want him to only be a battle mage, fine. But they need to actually give him tools to do that then and they haven't even tried.

Shield has to be sizable for close quarters combat. These changes basically leave it the same except potentially a bit higher in the late game when it doesn't matter that much. Maybe Morello's gets thrown in now but it always felt like a major damage gimp to me before. Plus the nerfs to Hexcore mana remain.

W has to be more reliable in order to have a shot at catching people for E and R: No changes at all

Riot's flip-flopping on his E is laughable. One patch it is nerfed for being oppressively strong when clearing minion waves. This will make it even better at clear minion waves at the expense of even a chance of hitting Aug E proc on champs. His burst will basically be completely gone now. I'm sure he will feel clunky as hell - more than doubling the delay is an absolute awful idea. Yea they increased the theoretical max damage, but that will hardly ever be reached, so what's the point?

R switched to heavily DoT: I don't hate this as much as the E changes but it isn't great. Nothing about improving the locking capabilities which always feel bugged.

Making a champion's iconic ability clunky and cutting out a huge portion of his damage is a pretty stupid way to 'balance' him.

The Hexmage5 votes

It's a shame that Riot want's him as a battle mage, Viktor potential and flexibility has always resided on being able to swap between Burst mage and Artillery mage (And even Battle mage). Viktor hasn't been in a good spot for a lot of time, changing him to be an only team champion like they did is a huge nerf.

Pale Pirate1 votes

W has to be more reliable in order to have a shot at catching people for E and R: No changes at all

Hell no. It's a good enough as a defensive tool, we don't need viktor to actually use it ON you and then kill you?!

Nefas2 votes

But that's the point -. I'm fine with it only being a defensive tool in his current kit. But this new kit basically removes any ability to go on offense without a teammate. That's not fun or fair. There needs to be some sort of hope to land e proc without a teammate and that can really only come from W. I'm not saying it needs to even be 50/50 level of reliable but right now anyone can just walk out of it without doing anything.

Current W is meant to be a defensive tool while E is meant to be an offensive tool and Q is a balance of the two. That's balanced.

Scoroct1 votes

I'd argue he isnt even a battle mage, his dmg isnt quite as sustained enough outside ult, and he is far less durable. Rather, he is being turned into a disruptor like anivia. The biggest issue about this is aniva works this way cause she can set up her zones of dmg through a wall and stun, where as viktor cant reliably set up his own E and ult due to lack of any cc or anything. The ult change is kinda cool honestly, but the E change is specifically destroying him outside of waveclear, although I guess both him and anivia can have funs sharing the spot as gods of waveclear and that can be part of their thing.

Sahn Uzal8 votes

Not gonna lie, I'm really afraid of how these changes will turn out.... summoner 31

The Y2J Problem8 votes

Vik has been my favourite champion ever since Season 2. Once he saw play in the LCS, I started to feel really worried that Riot would nerf the hell out of my favourite champ, but it looked like he got through relatively healthy/viable and still fun.

Then this change happened.

I can't believe how quickly I went from being really excited about the Mage update to absolutely detesting it.

1374346 votes

His R is a huge buff though.

For the first 2 seconds if you hit with initial damage it goes from 530(+0.95 AP) to 600(+1.1 AP) at max rank. Over the full duration it now does 1300 (+2.3 AP) damage versus 980 (+1.95 AP), even with the duration nerf. Each new tick does as much damage as live initial burst! It looks like they are trying to make it feel more impactful throughout the ult rather than huge upfront burst that just tickles champions afterwards unless they stay in entire time.

Dissappointed with E changes, but looks like they want to shift more power into Q.

333lom28 votes

Shifting power into Q is stupid. His E is his iconic ability, most hard to land and should hurt the most.

13743410 votes

To be honest once you get use to the targeting his laser isn't that much harder to land compared to any other skillshot.

333lom23 votes

It's still harder than the point-and-click.

Big Lincoln9 votes

you're not going to land the second part of your E unless you're wombo comboing

revert the E change at the very least, it's irreparably awful

1374348 votes

I suspect that is Riots intention though, as unfortunate as it is. Make it harder to reliably hit your second E without assistance from an ally or your W (just like how Jihn can't reliably hurt people with his traps without using his W or ally assistance).

Big Lincoln12 votes

that's a terrible change (though i don't expect anything else from ricklessabandon by now)

Jhin's traps make sense because they're long-lasting traps that stack, and he can snare you from 2500 units away.

Viktor's E is his poke skill that he has to use constantly in teamfights.

ForeverLaxx2 votes

Heh, I remember when rickless was a regular person on the forums and not a Rioter. He had bad ideas then, and he has bad ideas now. Sometimes I wonder if "half-baked" is a hiring requirement for this team.

Woook3r3 votes

Unless they buff the range on q massivly he will be trash.

PalCorg2 votes

Even if they do, it's shifting a lot of his power from his iconic AOE abilities into... a single target AA ability with shorter range to boot, while making the rest of his stuff weird DOT in essence abilities. :(

HazyCloud76 votes

Agree 100%. PLEASE revert the changes on his E. I would take less waveclear and damage in exchange for more consistency and no clunkiness any day.

They are ruining him with these changes. Who cares how much damage his E will do if you can't land the second part of it? He'll only be able to land the first part consistently unless someone is already rooted/stunned. The new E is an ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE loss of damage compared to the current E which will consistently land both procs. You never stun anyone with his gravity field anyway outside of a chaotic teamfight, people can casually walk out of it even if they don't have mobility spells.

I dislike the ult changes but I could live with them. PLEASE riot revert the deathray changes. It's his most iconic part of the kit, and they are gutting it.

D rok6 votes

I feel like a lot of their changes these days are too far in the direction of "overpowered in some scenarios, useless in others." Windows of power don't always have to be IMMENSELY powerful, and champions should be reasonably strong even at their lows. They've done a lot of this lately with juggernauts, kog'maw, vel'koz. Really pushing BIG moments, but... I'm not sure they always need to be that big.

doubleguac5 votes

stop reworking champions that don't need it.

This, please.

I've been playing VIktor since S2. There are lots of things I like about his kit. One of the major things I like about his kit is burst. I like burst champs. Viktor has always (pre and post rework) been a heavy burst champ.

Why change this? He's low range, squishy as hell, and lacks mobility. But if he gets close enough to drop his combo, it's fast and devastating. That's a balanced trade-off, in my mind. It's also extremely fun to play around that trade-off.

They're massively slowing down his damage and making him rely heavily on CC to get his combo off, it seems. That sounds fine, but that's not Viktor. Viktor is a burst champ. Why fix what isn't broken?

Ulquiorra9954 votes

These changes are beyond awful. Viktor just became the most binary champion in the game from one of the healthiest.

Now just enlighten me on how am I supposed to kill anything with any form of mobility with my main damage spell having a chunk of its damage delayed by 1.25 seconds and my ult striking in a huge 2 second interval? But if you're immobile tough luck - he'll drop a stun field on you and obliterate you with sheer numbers.

TheSingularity4 votes

GIVE VIKTOR HIS OLD DEATH RAY BACK! I WANT PEOPLE TO FEAR IT, I MEAN CMON? IT'S NAMES IS DEATH RAY. Now its more like, dildo with a touch of vibrator-ray

hOrnn4 votes

Wow death ray changes gonna make him awful...

morris14 votes

I'm not even a Viktor player but reading through this I first thought that he was finally getting buffs; the more I continued reading, the more I started to pull my hair out however.

Adolf Hit R1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moraru Maurice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dOPxrTxe,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2016-04-21T07:42:35.668+0000)

I'm not even a Viktor player but reading through this I first thought that he was finally getting buffs; the more I continued reading, the more I started to pull my hair out however.

What do you mean 'finally'?

Viktor's in a great spot right now. He doesn't need any kind of change, at all.

Michael Bacon3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adolf Hit R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dOPxrTxe,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2016-04-21T10:17:33.859+0000)

What do you mean 'finally'?

Viktor's in a great spot right now. He doesn't need any kind of change, at all.

Which is why he has the lowest winrate of all mid laners right now. Look on Champion.gg

LordBrasca4 votes

I don't get why they are doing this tbh. Viktor is fine as he is, it's not like since it's a "mid year mage update" then it means that you have go change every single immobile mage... His E is already hard enough to hit and was part of the fun in playing him in laning phase, if the changes go through even the scuttle crab will be able to dodge that shit. Also i don't really get the ult change, it doesn't really make any sense.

zmmby3 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al-NV58KHiY

gg

NeoBrawler2 votes

So I mained vicktor all through S5 and S6 till the E nerf. Why, because why choose him now? He doesn't clear anymore so why put in the effort to land his abilities when other mages can do it but clear without going OOM after two waves. Now they basically gut him so I won't ever use him ever again. Shame that he was my favorite champion in the game and he has the most mastery points on my profile...

SKT T1 Daddy2 votes

I feel you man!! The same here, I was top 100# world Viktor before nerfing his E, but for real.. Now this champion is a joke.... Riot should really at least revert his E

The Yetii Rider1 votes

He's a Battle Mage, so they're reducing his burst and giving him more power for staying alive longer. Makes sense to me. He may deal less damage but he's going to be much tankier with the new RoA.

Big Lincoln5 votes

viktor is a burst mage

The Yetii Rider2 votes

[{quoted}](name=IT HURTS SO GOOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dOPxrTxe,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2016-04-21T01:38:01.691+0000)

viktor is a burst mage

Not anymore. That's the point of the rework.

Big Lincoln9 votes

you're right

he's a troll pick now

Ulquiorra9955 votes

Actually, I can see where Riot is going with this. Considering that Viktor was picked a lot in exports because of his wave clear that's what they are decided to focus on. A specialised wave clear mage. Since minions will be the only thing he'll be able to kill with delays that horrendous.

But since Viktor is Viktor and not Lee Sin we can't even hope for changes to get pulled back no matter how horrible they are.

RasCaelestis2 votes

I remember when people used to say this before his first rework (when he was allowed to get all three Augments for his Hex Core). I'd pick Viktor in champion select, and would get crap from at least a few 'teammates'. They'd change their minds by the end of the game, but it was still annoying to have to defend a champion that I knew was just as strong as any of the FotM stuff at the time.

Now, though? I don't think even I can deny the 'troll pick' status now, and that kills me. Viktor was the first champion I 'mained' when I started playing this game back at the beginning of Season 3. I remember Solcrushed's "True Evolution" thread, and all the interesting ideas proposed in it over the course of about two years.

I just don't understand Riot's "balancing" changes in Season 6. Across the board they don't make sense, and the nerfs to Viktor when he first got picked up in pro play are one of the many signs of that. He got nerfed for having good wave clear, which was always part of what defined him. He used to be labelled as a 'Pusher' (before the new classification system) and was picked for his sieging and holding capabilities. Now, it seems like that's all he'll be good for. Minions that don't move are the only thing you'll get your second E proc on. There's no way any player will stand in the same spot for enough time for the second tick to hit them (unless they're just really bad at the game) especially considering how much mobility is in the game now.

I still love Viktor's lore and his overall personality/character, and he's my favourite champion in the game for those reasons, but if these changes go through I can't realistically see myself picking him in games I want to win.

Edited for clarity.

MrLlamaWaffle1 votes

Does no one care about the fiddle nerfs!?

Big Lincoln9 votes

when fiddle has a laser arm i will care

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